Obama Most Polarizing President Ever

[houndawg]

I didn't call it either weak or superficial, I said polls weren't as accurate then and the one you cite doesn't agree with my experience. I wasn't burning flags or bombing buildings either, and if you think everybody who was opposed to the war did, then you weren't really there. I'll also wager that my neighborhood had as many guys come home in body bags as yours did. And the crap about spitting on returning vets is an urban myth, although I can see where it fits in nicely with your self-image of the unappreciated warrior who stood guard for the ungreatful. How about we all stipulate to the fact that you are the noblest among us and then you don't have to keep telling us so?

Well, the spitting did not happen in my neighborhood, either, although some idiot did try to burn a flag at Mike's funeral. Some California vets have told me they were spit on, and I have no reason to doubt them.

I agree that some anti-war protesters in the 60's were peaceful and law abiding, and have no reason to think you bombed buildings or burned flags, but some in the Obama camp were anti-war radicals who did exactly that.

You are essentially correct that I believe most non-black Obama supporters over the age of about 30 are a bunch of useless, ungrateful, anti-American dipshits responsible for putting me on a terror watch list because I served my country militarily and lean libertarian. I make exceptions for the youth who didn't know any better and for black folk who viewed Obama as the great hope. ...not due so much to the soft racism or ageism of lowered expectations but because if I place myself in their shoes I might have made the same mistake. I will admit to those prejudices.

You don't have to read any portion of my posts that upset you, dawg.

Not upset, just embarassed. Remember in high school when your football coach told you that after you score you should act like you've been in the end zone before? Same principle, quit telling everybody what a hero you are for doing what you volunteered to do and got paid to do. When you have to continually remind us it loses some of the effect and makes all vets seem like self-aggrandizing blowhards.



Or marines.

[houndawg]

No, I did not say that Bush was not polarizing! I said that:

1. Bush reached across the aisle, and

2. Bush was not AS polarizing as Obama.

These facts are undeniable.

Come now, GF, you don't usually twist others' words like that! Of course I see a polarizng over the past decade, but in comparing Bush and Obama, Obama's leadership has thus far proven more polarizing and less bi-partisan.

I'm not so sure about that.

It could be because hard core Democrats are more likely to give a Republican credit than the other way around.
Also, in spite of the supposed "Liberal Media bias", there is no Democrat version of Rush Limbaugh to rally the troops against the other party. I know that there are Dems who try, but the Republicans are better at it.

The republicans are better at it because they have a passive audience that wouldn't think of challenging anything they are told by those they look to for leadership.

[native]

Well, the spitting did not happen in my neighborhood, either, although some idiot did try to burn a flag at Mike's funeral. Some California vets have told me they were spit on, and I have no reason to doubt them.

I agree that some anti-war protesters in the 60's were peaceful and law abiding, and have no reason to think you bombed buildings or burned flags, but some in the Obama camp were anti-war radicals who did exactly that.

You are essentially correct that I believe most non-black Obama supporters over the age of about 30 are a bunch of useless, ungrateful, anti-American dipshits responsible for putting me on a terror watch list because I served my country militarily and lean libertarian. I make exceptions for the youth who didn't know any better and for black folk who viewed Obama as the great hope. ...not due so much to the soft racism or ageism of lowered expectations but because if I place myself in their shoes I might have made the same mistake. I will admit to those prejudices.

You don't have to read any portion of my posts that upset you, dawg.

Not upset, just embarassed. Remember in high school when your football coach told you that after you score you should act like you've been in the end zone before? Same principle, quit telling everybody what a hero you are for doing what you volunteered to do and got paid to do. When you have to continually remind us it loses some of the effect and makes all vets seem like self-aggrandizing blowhards.



Or marines.

You can interpret whatever you want. I wanted kalm to understand where I was coming from. He has posted similar autobiographical posts for the same explanatory purpose. I am interested in your motivations, too, dawg, if you care to share them, because I seek to understand. It is nice to discover common ideals and aspirations.

Like it or not, however, I will not be changing my style for you.

P.S. We know you are a vet and that you are not self aggrandizing.

[houndawg]

Not upset, just embarassed. Remember in high school when your football coach told you that after you score you should act like you've been in the end zone before? Same principle, quit telling everybody what a hero you are for doing what you volunteered to do and got paid to do. When you have to continually remind us it loses some of the effect and makes all vets seem like self-aggrandizing blowhards.



Or marines.

You can interpret whatever you want. I wanted kalm to understand where I was coming from. He has posted similar autobiographical posts for the same explanatory purpose. I am interested in your motivations, too, dawg, if you care to share them, because I seek to understand. It is nice to discover common ideals and aspirations.

Like it or not, however, I will not be changing my style for you.

P.S. We know you are a vet and that you are not self aggrandizing.

Sheeeeeeit, I was a titan of the torque wrench. Jesus nuts would tighten themselves when they saw me coming.

[kalm]

Not upset, just embarassed. Remember in high school when your football coach told you that after you score you should act like you've been in the end zone before? Same principle, quit telling everybody what a hero you are for doing what you volunteered to do and got paid to do. When you have to continually remind us it loses some of the effect and makes all vets seem like self-aggrandizing blowhards.



Or marines.

You can interpret whatever you want. I wanted kalm to understand where I was coming from. He has posted similar autobiographical posts for the same explanatory purpose. I am interested in your motivations, too, dawg, if you care to share them, because I seek to understand. It is nice to discover common ideals and aspirations.

Absolutely.

Now, Native, I noticed that you grew up on a farm.

You'll be excited to know that here in E. Wa we have a strong agricultural economy. I count many friends and a few relatives among the farmers and ranchers and some of them even recognize the positive aspects of:

Big government CRP program.

Big government crop insurance subsidies.

Big government Grand Coulee Dam and the Columbia Basin Reclamation Project which brought irrigation to the desert, and cheap electricty to the region.

Big government Bureau of Reclamation projects on other Columbia and Snake river damns which brought more cheap and clean electricty on line and made the waterways navigable from Lewiston to Portland for the shipping of grain.

Big government BLM land for cattle grazing

Big government roads which also helps with the shipping of grain.

And yet I drive past many farms where signs for a G.O.P. "small government" candidate are proudly displayed.

I guess not all big government spending is bad.

[native]

You can interpret whatever you want. I wanted kalm to understand where I was coming from. He has posted similar autobiographical posts for the same explanatory purpose. I am interested in your motivations, too, dawg, if you care to share them, because I seek to understand. It is nice to discover common ideals and aspirations.

Absolutely.

Now, Native, I noticed that you grew up on a farm.

You'll be excited to know that here in E. Wa we have a strong agricultural economy. I count many friends and a few relatives among the farmers and ranchers and some of them even recognize the positive aspects of:

Big government CRP program.

Big government crop insurance subsidies.

Big government Grand Coulee Dam and the Columbia Basin Reclamation Project which brought irrigation to the desert, and cheap electricty to the region.

Big government Bureau of Reclamation projects on other Columbia and Snake river damns which brought more cheap and clean electricty on line and made the waterways navigable from Lewiston to Portland for the shipping of grain.

Big government BLM land for cattle grazing

Big government roads which also helps with the shipping of grain.

And yet I drive past many farms where signs for a G.O.P. "small government" candidate are proudly displayed.

I guess not all big government spending is bad.

This field of discussion is rich for tilling, planting and reaping!

I advocate small government, not anarchy! But some of the programs on the list cause more harm than good. The BLM is too big. Parts of the land should be returned to the private sector. The crop and insurance subsidies are also too big, create a false economy and are a waste of taxpayer money. The ethanol subsidy (not on your list) does not achieve its stated objectives and needlessly distorts other markets. About the only things on your checklist which provide adequate value are the infrastructure projects.

Full disclosure: Although most of the kids I grew up with were farm kids, I grew up on a ranch, not a farm. There are significant cultural differences between farming and ranching, especially west of about Kansas City.

[houndawg]

Absolutely.

Now, Native, I noticed that you grew up on a farm.

You'll be excited to know that here in E. Wa we have a strong agricultural economy. I count many friends and a few relatives among the farmers and ranchers and some of them even recognize the positive aspects of:

Big government CRP program.

Big government crop insurance subsidies.

Big government Grand Coulee Dam and the Columbia Basin Reclamation Project which brought irrigation to the desert, and cheap electricty to the region.

Big government Bureau of Reclamation projects on other Columbia and Snake river damns which brought more cheap and clean electricty on line and made the waterways navigable from Lewiston to Portland for the shipping of grain.

Big government BLM land for cattle grazing

Big government roads which also helps with the shipping of grain.

And yet I drive past many farms where signs for a G.O.P. "small government" candidate are proudly displayed.

I guess not all big government spending is bad.

This field of discussion is rich for tilling, planting and reaping!

I advocate small government, not anarchy! But some of the programs on the list cause more harm than good. The BLM is too big. Parts of the land should be returned to the private sector. The crop and insurance subsidies are also too big, create a false economy and are a waste of taxpayer money. About the only things on your checklist which provide adequate value are the infrastructure projects.

Full disclosure: Although most of the kids I grew up with were farm kids, I grew up on a ranch, not a farm. There are significant cultural differences between farming and ranching, especially west of about Kansas City.

The sheep on the ranches know this all too well.

[houndawg]

You can interpret whatever you want. I wanted kalm to understand where I was coming from. He has posted similar autobiographical posts for the same explanatory purpose. I am interested in your motivations, too, dawg, if you care to share them, because I seek to understand. It is nice to discover common ideals and aspirations.

Absolutely.

Now, Native, I noticed that you grew up on a farm.

You'll be excited to know that here in E. Wa we have a strong agricultural economy. I count many friends and a few relatives among the farmers and ranchers and some of them even recognize the positive aspects of:

Big government CRP program.

Big government crop insurance subsidies.

Big government Grand Coulee Dam and the Columbia Basin Reclamation Project which brought irrigation to the desert, and cheap electricty to the region.

Big government Bureau of Reclamation projects on other Columbia and Snake river damns which brought more cheap and clean electricty on line and made the waterways navigable from Lewiston to Portland for the shipping of grain.

Big government BLM land for cattle grazing

Big government roads which also helps with the shipping of grain.

And yet I drive past many farms where signs for a G.O.P. "small government" candidate are proudly displayed.

I guess not all big government spending is bad.

Where in E. Wa.? Back in the day I put up a lot of hay around Omak, Tonasket, and Conconully. Picked a lot of apples around Lake Chelan, too.

[native]

This field of discussion is rich for tilling, planting and reaping!

I advocate small government, not anarchy! But some of the programs on the list cause more harm than good. The BLM is too big. Parts of the land should be returned to the private sector. The crop and insurance subsidies are also too big, create a false economy and are a waste of taxpayer money. About the only things on your checklist which provide adequate value are the infrastructure projects.

Full disclosure: Although most of the kids I grew up with were farm kids, I grew up on a ranch, not a farm. There are significant cultural differences between farming and ranching, especially west of about Kansas City.

The sheep on the ranches know this all too well.

Not many sheep in Oklahoma. Not familiar with that phenomenon. Strictly cattle and horses where I grew up. Care to share your personal sheep experiences, dawg?

Worked in a stock yards, though, and I will say that pig shit really stinks, cow shit you can get used to, and horse shit actually smells good.

Know all about puttin' up hay, though!

[native]

You can interpret whatever you want. I wanted kalm to understand where I was coming from. He has posted similar autobiographical posts for the same explanatory purpose. I am interested in your motivations, too, dawg, if you care to share them, because I seek to understand. It is nice to discover common ideals and aspirations.

Like it or not, however, I will not be changing my style for you.

P.S. We know you are a vet and that you are not self aggrandizing.

Sheeeeeeit, I was a titan of the torque wrench. Jesus nuts would tighten themselves when they saw me coming.

Had my hands on a few Jesus nuts in my time... damned glad they were all torqued properly!

Did you work primarily on Hueys? Only got about 60 or so hours of time in the single engine model, but I loved flyin' it - hell, when I was young I loved every make and model I could get my hands on - helicopters, too!

You really know how to cheer up an old rotor head, dawg!

[kalm]

Absolutely.

Now, Native, I noticed that you grew up on a farm.

You'll be excited to know that here in E. Wa we have a strong agricultural economy. I count many friends and a few relatives among the farmers and ranchers and some of them even recognize the positive aspects of:

Big government CRP program.

Big government crop insurance subsidies.

Big government Grand Coulee Dam and the Columbia Basin Reclamation Project which brought irrigation to the desert, and cheap electricty to the region.

Big government Bureau of Reclamation projects on other Columbia and Snake river damns which brought more cheap and clean electricty on line and made the waterways navigable from Lewiston to Portland for the shipping of grain.

Big government BLM land for cattle grazing

Big government roads which also helps with the shipping of grain.

And yet I drive past many farms where signs for a G.O.P. "small government" candidate are proudly displayed.

I guess not all big government spending is bad.

Where in E. Wa.? Back in the day I put up a lot of hay around Omak, Tonasket, and Conconully. Picked a lot of apples around Lake Chelan, too.

Spokane area. It's been a long time since I've been up in North Central Washington, but if memory serves it was some great country. It's almost a forgotten area of the state, but there's been some tourist promotion lately. Mountains, deserts, rain forests, ocean - there's quite a bit of geographical diversity in Washington.

Lake Chelan:

[native]

...
Lake Chelan:

Man, that's a gorgeous picture!

[houndawg]

Sheeeeeeit, I was a titan of the torque wrench. Jesus nuts would tighten themselves when they saw me coming.

Had my hands on a few Jesus nuts in my time... damned glad they were all torqued properly!

Did you work primarily on Hueys? Only got about 60 or so hours of time in the single engine model, but I loved flyin' it - hell, when I was young I loved every make and model I could get my hands on - helicopters, too!

You really know how to cheer up an old rotor head, dawg!

Mostly Hueys and 58s because that was what there was the most of, also worked Cobras, Chinooks, and Sky Cranes.

[houndawg]

...
Lake Chelan:

Man, that's a gorgeous picture!

Some nice country up there. lake Chelan is about 40 miles long and back in the day there was no road to the town of Stehekin at the far end, and the ferry didn't run every day..

[native]

Warning! Houndawg and I are both...

Had my hands on a few Jesus nuts in my time... damned glad they were all torqued properly!

Did you work primarily on Hueys? Only got about 60 or so hours of time in the single engine model, but I loved flyin' it - hell, when I was young I loved every make and model I could get my hands on - helicopters, too!

You really know how to cheer up an old rotor head, dawg!

Mostly Hueys and 58s because that was what there was the most of, also worked Cobras, Chinooks, and Sky Cranes.

We always found something to call a "Jesus Nut" on every make and model, but some, like the Huey, truly had a nut you could call a Jesus Nut. In fact, I think the Huey is where the term originated.

Never touched a Sky Crane, but flew everything else on your list, if you count the 46 as a baby Chinook.

Those tandem rotor control augmentation systems were PFM. There was an electronics box in the control closet on the Sea Knight called a "differential collective pitch trim" regulator. We called it a "Suldo Box" because a guy named Suldo failed to notice on preflight that the nut connecting the box to the hydraulic control train was NOT properly torqued or cotter-keyed, subsequently backed off in flight, and the rotors became unsynchronized and went crazy, cutting the fuselage in two. Somehow the cockpit fluttered to the surface of a shallow lake without killing Mr. Suldo and he lived to eventually tell the tale.

[houndawg]

Warning! Houndawg and I are both...

Mostly Hueys and 58s because that was what there was the most of, also worked Cobras, Chinooks, and Sky Cranes.

We always found something to call a "Jesus Nut" on every make and model, but some, like the Huey, truly had a nut you could call a Jesus Nut. In fact, I think the Huey is where the term originated.

Never touched a Sky Crane, but flew everything else on your list, if you count the 46 as a baby Chinook.

Those tandem rotor control augmentation systems were PFM. There was an electronics box in the control closet on the Sea Knight called a "differential collective pitch trim" regulator. We called it a "Suldo Box" because a guy named Suldo failed to notice on preflight that the nut connecting the box to the hydraulic control train was NOT properly torqued or cotter-keyed, subsequently backed off in flight, and the rotors became unsynchronized and went crazy, cutting the fuselage in two. Somehow the cockpit fluttered to the surface of a shallow lake without killing Mr. Suldo and he lived to eventually tell the tale.

The Jesus Nut is the one that holds the rotor head to the mast.

We used to get new 2nd looeys into tertiary sphincter-lock by running out on the flight line waving one while they were running up. I wanted to wait until they pulled up to a hover before running out but the CWOs that put us up to it were afraid somebody would drop too hard and spread the skids.

[native]

...The Jesus Nut is the one that holds the rotor head to the mast....

...and it's called a "Jesus Nut" because if the nut backs off in flight, Jesus is the only one who can save your ass... a useful training tool for teaching newbs to conduct proper preflights.

[ngineer]

Can't fault Obama entirely for that - it's more so a product of the times we live in. Hard core Dems and hard core GOP'ers have never been more hard core in favor of themselves than they are today. Thankfully, we independents are the ones who really matter now - the hard core folks just cancel each other out.

Agreed. The polarization is fomented by characters like Pelosi and Bonior (sp?) and their minions. I don't think Obama has been polarizing and, in fact, Bonior pretty much said that on Wednesday. He pointed at the Dem leadership in the House as creating much of the problem, and I agree with him. (I can't believe I just said that! )

[native]

Can't fault Obama entirely for that - it's more so a product of the times we live in. Hard core Dems and hard core GOP'ers have never been more hard core in favor of themselves than they are today. Thankfully, we independents are the ones who really matter now - the hard core folks just cancel each other out.

Agreed. The polarization is fomented by characters like Pelosi and Bonior (sp?) and their minions. I don't think Obama has been polarizing and, in fact, Bonior pretty much said that on Wednesday. He pointed at the Dem leadership in the House as creating much of the problem, and I agree with him. (I can't believe I just said that! )

David Bonior is a Democrat, numbnuts. John Boehner is the Minority Leader in the House.