FOX News.. "most trusted"

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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by youngterrier »

dbackjon wrote:Both of you need to go back to school.

The Over-riding fascism of the current Republican Party is far more likely to lead to a totalitarian state than the disorganized anarchy of the Democratic Party.

And we are far more likely to evolve into a Corporate State than a Communist State.

If anything, the Progressivism of the Democratic Party in the 30's killed the Communist movement in the United States. Communism is only an attractive ideal when there is a wide gap between the ruling elite and the poor of the country. The New Deal, which kept starvation and revolution out of the country, showed that you can have a Democratic Society that does not revolve around the elite.

Unfortunately, we are heading in the wrong direction - back towards concentration of wealth in a few, which WOULD lead to a revolution.

So in reality, liberalism is the only thing between the US and communism.
Though I agree that Republicans are Fascists in the social sense, I think the Democrats' agenda is closer to communism.

Most of our economic problems (including the depression and its extension) have been due to liberal economic policies (The New Deal, the Federal Reserve)

the reason the we have a concentration of wealth can be attributed to the Inflation brought upon us by the Federal Reserve

simply put the inflation created by the Federal Reserve makes it harder for an individual to make a living, increasing the amount of people on entitlements, which leads to higher taxes hurting economic growth, and if we don't raise taxes we run up debt which doesn't help anything.
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote: I celebrate the type of capitalism that provided the longest sustained economic expansion and growth of the largest middle class in the history of the world. You're just sore cause Reaganomics and Grover Norquist's strategy of shrinking government have completely failed us. But thanks to government spending they were at least able to save us from communism along the way. :thumb:
..and what type of Capitalism is that?

Sorry, but your Roosevelt worshiping New Deal legislation and it's other government run socialistic variations developed since FDR's rule has only brought bloated federal budgets and ever expanding federal bureaucracies. Social Security is bankrupt, Medicare is bankrupt, Medicaid is bankrupt, FannieMae, FreddieMac...all bankrupt. These ill conceived and mismanaged entitlement programs make up well over 50% of the federal budget, and the last I heard none of those bloated federal programs were a product of Ronald Reagan or his economic policies or philosophy.

However, those programs are a product of short sighted Liberal populism. It amazes me to see you continuously blame Reagan's philosophy for wrecking our economy while about two thirds of the federal budget are expenditures to entitlement programs that were conceived, developed, and implemented during 50 years of Liberal Democratic rule in Congress and useful idiots like FDR and LBJ.

Please put down the Kool Aid. :ohno:
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by native »

youngterrier wrote:
dbackjon wrote:Both of you need to go back to school.

The Over-riding fascism of the current Republican Party is far more likely to lead to a totalitarian state than the disorganized anarchy of the Democratic Party.

And we are far more likely to evolve into a Corporate State than a Communist State.

If anything, the Progressivism of the Democratic Party in the 30's killed the Communist movement in the United States. Communism is only an attractive ideal when there is a wide gap between the ruling elite and the poor of the country. The New Deal, which kept starvation and revolution out of the country, showed that you can have a Democratic Society that does not revolve around the elite.

Unfortunately, we are heading in the wrong direction - back towards concentration of wealth in a few, which WOULD lead to a revolution.

So in reality, liberalism is the only thing between the US and communism.
Though I agree that Republicans are Fascists in the social sense, I think the Democrats' agenda is closer to communism.

Most of our economic problems (including the depression and its extension) have been due to liberal economic policies (The New Deal, the Federal Reserve)

the reason the we have a concentration of wealth can be attributed to the Inflation brought upon us by the Federal Reserve

simply put the inflation created by the Federal Reserve makes it harder for an individual to make a living, increasing the amount of people on entitlements, which leads to higher taxes hurting economic growth, and if we don't raise taxes we run up debt which doesn't help anything.
Well said, YT, even though your post fails to take into consideration the non-economic "fascist" restrictions on your personal social liberty imposed and proposed by "progressives."
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by youngterrier »

native wrote:
youngterrier wrote:
Though I agree that Republicans are Fascists in the social sense, I think the Democrats' agenda is closer to communism.

Most of our economic problems (including the depression and its extension) have been due to liberal economic policies (The New Deal, the Federal Reserve)

the reason the we have a concentration of wealth can be attributed to the Inflation brought upon us by the Federal Reserve

simply put the inflation created by the Federal Reserve makes it harder for an individual to make a living, increasing the amount of people on entitlements, which leads to higher taxes hurting economic growth, and if we don't raise taxes we run up debt which doesn't help anything.
Well said, YT, even though your post fails to take into consideration the non-economic "fascist" restrictions on your personal social liberty imposed and proposed by "progressives."
I feel there is more of that in Republicans...sorry
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by TheDancinMonarch »

dbackjon wrote:...than the disorganized anarchy of the Democratic Party.
The Democrats only appear disorganized because they are afraid to show their true face in public. Some of them are honest enough, or safe enough electorally, to say what they believe. The rest are not. Hence, what appears to be anarchy.
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by kalm »

Baldy wrote:
kalm wrote: I celebrate the type of capitalism that provided the longest sustained economic expansion and growth of the largest middle class in the history of the world. You're just sore cause Reaganomics and Grover Norquist's strategy of shrinking government have completely failed us. But thanks to government spending they were at least able to save us from communism along the way. :thumb:
..and what type of Capitalism is that?

Sorry, but your Roosevelt worshiping New Deal legislation and it's other government run socialistic variations developed since FDR's rule has only brought bloated federal budgets and ever expanding federal bureaucracies. Social Security is bankrupt, Medicare is bankrupt, Medicaid is bankrupt, FannieMae, FreddieMac...all bankrupt. These ill conceived and mismanaged entitlement programs make up well over 50% of the federal budget, and the last I heard none of those bloated federal programs were a product of Ronald Reagan or his economic policies or philosophy.

However, those programs are a product of short sighted Liberal populism. It amazes me to see you continuously blame Reagan's philosophy for wrecking our economy while about two thirds of the federal budget are expenditures to entitlement programs that were conceived, developed, and implemented during 50 years of Liberal Democratic rule in Congress and useful idiots like FDR and LBJ.
Reagan did a terrific job of selling his economic policies and the notion of stoic self reliance while casting blame on the welfare state. So much so that they have pretty much been adopted by every president since.

For example, Reagan's tax cuts on corporations and the top marginal rate from the high 60's down to the mid 30's have stood ever since, while the size of government and the debt has increased under every administration since with the exception of the small tax increase and balanced budget that occurred under Clinton. Speaking of Clinton, he cut social welfare spending (very Reagan) but sadly increased corporate welfare spending.

Reagan also increased the national debt by more than every president from Washington through Carter combined.

And then there's the grand wizard of unrestricted free market capitalism and modern conservative economics, Alan Greenspan. A Reagan appointee, reaffirmed by every president thereafter until his retirement because everyone knew that Reaganomics worked.

Woops:
In Congressional testimony on October 23, 2008, Greenspan acknowledged that he was "partially" wrong in opposing regulation and stated "Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholder's equity — myself especially — are in a state of shocked disbelief."[36] Referring to his free-market ideology, Greenspan said: “I have found a flaw. I don’t know how significant or permanent it is. But I have been very distressed by that fact.” Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) then pressed him to clarify his words. “In other words, you found that your view of the world, your ideology, was not right, it was not working,” Waxman said. “Absolutely, precisely,” Greenspan replied. “You know, that’s precisely the reason I was shocked, because I have been going for 40 years or more with very considerable evidence that it was working exceptionally well.”[61] Greenspan admitted fault[62] in opposing regulation of derivatives and acknowledged that financial institutions didn't protect shareholders and investments as well as he expected.
Joshua Green has an excellent piece on the Reagan legacy in which he talks about how the size of the federal government expanded under Reagan's watch, how Reagan saved social security, that the number of workers on the federal payroll rose by 61,000 under Reagan. (By comparison, under Clinton, the number fell by 373,000), and how Reagan was responsible for the largest tax cut's (for the rich) and tax increases (including increases in FICA) in history.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/featur ... green.html

Here's economist Dean Baker writing on "Nine Misconceptions About Social Security":

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/98jul/socsec.htm
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by kalm »

In other words, Reagan was about as much of a small government conservative as FDR was a socialist. :D
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote: Reagan did a terrific job of selling his economic policies and the notion of stoic self reliance while casting blame on the welfare state. So much so that they have pretty much been adopted by every president since.

For example, Reagan's tax cuts on corporations and the top marginal rate from the high 60's down to the mid 30's have stood ever since, while the size of government and the debt has increased under every administration since with the exception of the small tax increase and balanced budget that occurred under Clinton. Speaking of Clinton, he cut social welfare spending (very Reagan) but sadly increased corporate welfare spending.
Just to set the record (and truth) straight...

Cutting the corporate tax rate (and individual rates) more than doubled federal revenue from 1980 to 1990.
Clinton's tax increase in 1993 didn't bring about a balanced budget. Clinton's own OMB in 1994 forecasted deficits for as long as the eye could see. The balanced budget only occurred after the 1997 tax cut the Republican Congress enacted. Clinton didn't cut social welfare spending, Congress did. Clinton was dragged to the table kicking and screaming.
Reagan also increased the national debt by more than every president from Washington through Carter combined.
Many will argue winning the Cold War was more important.
And then there's the grand wizard of unrestricted free market capitalism and modern conservative economics, Alan Greenspan. A Reagan appointee, reaffirmed by every president thereafter until his retirement because everyone knew that Reaganomics worked.
Sorry the Grand Wizard of Modern Conservative Economics is Milton Friedman, not Alan Greenspan.
Joshua Green has an excellent piece on the Reagan legacy in which he talks about how the size of the federal government expanded under Reagan's watch, how Reagan saved social security, that the number of workers on the federal payroll rose by 61,000 under Reagan. (By comparison, under Clinton, the number fell by 373,000), and how Reagan was responsible for the largest tax cut's (for the rich) and tax increases (including increases in FICA) in history.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/featur ... green.html
Pretty decent article, but it didn't really get into the causes. Military spending is what really grew under Reagan, but considering what happened under Carter. It was necessary.

The federal payroll grew, but again, mostly military.
Clinton's numbers did fall, but again mostly military.
Here's economist Dean Baker writing on "Nine Misconceptions About Social Security":

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/98jul/socsec.htm
Nice 12 year old article, but many of his "misconceptions" include the existence of the mythical Unicorn of any Social Security debate...the so-called and non-existent "Social Security Trust Fund".

Nice attempt at deflecting the inevitable, but back to the main subject. Are the Liberal Social Engineering entitlement programs developed since FDR that now make up a whopping and crushing two thirds of the US Federal Budget expenditures the root cause of exploding deficits and sour economy?
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by Ivytalk »

Game, set, match to Baldy! :nod: :thumb:
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by native »

Baldy wrote:...Are the Liberal Social Engineering entitlement programs developed since FDR that now make up a whopping and crushing two thirds of the US Federal Budget expenditures the root cause of exploding deficits and sour economy?
Yup! :thumb: :ugeek:
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by travelinman67 »

Ivytalk wrote:Game, set, match to Baldy! :nod: :thumb:
Not really a fair match, though. Kalm - v - Baldy is akin to a flyweight against...

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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by native »

dbackjon wrote:Both of you need to go back to school.

The Over-riding fascism of the current Republican Party is far more likely to lead to a totalitarian state than the disorganized anarchy of the Democratic Party.

And we are far more likely to evolve into a Corporate State than a Communist State.

If anything, the Progressivism of the Democratic Party in the 30's killed the Communist movement in the United States. Communism is only an attractive ideal when there is a wide gap between the ruling elite and the poor of the country. The New Deal, which kept starvation and revolution out of the country, showed that you can have a Democratic Society that does not revolve around the elite.

Unfortunately, we are heading in the wrong direction - back towards concentration of wealth in a few, which WOULD lead to a revolution.

So in reality, liberalism is the only thing between the US and communism.
So in the US, unlike Russia, the mensheviks won, protecting us from Bolshevism, and that's OK with you?!??

A slow menshevik death is better than a quicker bolshevik execution?
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by kalm »

Game, set, match to Baldy!

Yup!




:rofl: :rofl: :troll:

Whoooooooooaaaa. Easy their girls. Put your pom poms down for a minute.

The ref just put 1.3 seconds back on the game clock. Plenty of time left for a catch and shoot:
Just to set the record (and truth) straight...

Cutting the corporate tax rate (and individual rates) more than doubled federal revenue from 1980 to 1990.
Clinton's tax increase in 1993 didn't bring about a balanced budget. Clinton's own OMB in 1994 forecasted deficits for as long as the eye could see. The balanced budget only occurred after the 1997 tax cut the Republican Congress enacted. Clinton didn't cut social welfare spending, Congress did. Clinton was dragged to the table kicking and screaming.


During the Reagan Administration, federal receipts grew at an average rate of 8.2% (2.5% attributed to higher Social Security receipts), and federal outlays grew at an annual rate of 7.1%.[27][28][
:rofl:

Good one :thumb: Here's the rest of the wiki paragraph:

According to a United States Department of the Treasury economic study,[29] the major tax bills enacted under Reagan, in the short-term, significantly reduced (~-1% of GDP) government tax receipts. Separated out, however, it is clear that the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981 was a massive (~-3% of GDP) decrease in revenues (the largest tax cuts ever enacted),[30] while other tax bills had neutral or, in the case of the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982, significant (~+1% of GDP) government revenue-enhancing effects.

So can I claim that after the ERTA nearly bankrupted the country it was the Democratic congress that dragged Reagan "kicking and screaming" to the table? :D
Many will argue winning the Cold War was more important.
It's debateable whether Reagan's spending won the war or whether the russkies were well on the way to crumbling anyway. But for the sake of this argument, defense spending is still government spending and it also increased tax receipts. Give me a credit card and I'll show you economic growth too. :thumb:
Sorry the Grand Wizard of Modern Conservative Economics is Milton Friedman, not Alan Greenspan.
Oh that's right, Friedman was the wizard and Greenspan was the master of the universe.

Friedman was an interesting chap with some nice ideas. Unfortunately the complexity of modern economies and influences of globalization make it difficult to be conclusive about their successes and failures. As I've said before, I understand the attraction of neo-liberal/libertarian economic theories, I just think they are proving to be utopic and impracticle in the long run.

Here's an article about how Iceland fully embraced Friedmanism and the consequences:

It turns out that Iceland, despite its coalition governments and Nordic social values, became a poster child for neoconservative economic policies inspired by Milton Friedman during the past decade. Friedman himself visited Iceland in 1984 and participated in what was described as a "lively television debate" with leading Socialists. This inspired a generation of young conservatives who came to power through the Independence Party in 1991 and have run its government through different coalitions since then.

Friedman may be dead now, but the economic and financial collapse of 2008 is becoming a real-life battleground of his theories against those of the other giant of 20th century economics, John Maynard Keynes, and their respective followers. Will financial market bailouts put the economy back on track, or are more extensive reform and a more active role for the government needed?

riedman and his Chicago school of economics then very successfully spearheaded a reaction against Keynesianism, largely defining economic policy since the 1980s. The main policy prescriptions -- restricting the role of government, deregulation, privatization, cutting taxes, low inflation and the benefits of free markets -- were encapsulated in the "Washington consensus" and imposed with missionary zeal by IMF economists around the world.

While Friedman's narrow form of money supply monetarism was quickly abandoned in the early 1980s, most governments have relied primarily on monetary instead of fiscal policy for stabilization of their economies over the past few decades. This turned Alan Greenspan, former head of the U.S. Federal Reserve and an advocate of Friedman's policies, into the most important economic policy maker in the world. Although Greenspan was never elected, had no particular expertise in economics and was a disciple of the fringe ideology of libertarian Ayn Rand, he was able to use his considerable power to endorse tax cuts and deregulation. He is now widely considered to share the blame for creating the conditions that resulted in the current economic collapse.


Nice attempt at deflecting the inevitable, but back to the main subject. Are the Liberal Social Engineering entitlement programs developed since FDR that now make up a whopping and crushing two thirds of the US Federal Budget expenditures the root cause of exploding deficits and sour economy?
According to the CBO for 2008 Medicare is 23%, Social Security is 21% and other mandatory spending is 10% of governement expenditures. So perhaps you're rounding up to two thirds? In any event, all federal mandatory expenditures represent 11.2 % of GDP. By comparison, health care is 16% and financial services are 28.8%

But in answer to your question, government spending can be the cause of deficits, but so can tax cuts. I'll remind you again that the budget was balanced not that long ago. So it depends on your philosophy.

And the sour economy has many causes. But a country that is able to produce the immense wealth that we still have while "providing for the general welfare" as the founders suggested leads me to think we are still somewhere close to the middle but a little too much toward the right in my opinion.

Warren Buffet's secretary pays a higher tax rate than he does. The the top 1% of U.S. households owns 40% of the weatlh, more than the bottom 90% combined. CEO to janitor salary ratio's have risen from 40-1 to 400-1 over the last 30 years. Unless you're a CEO or in that top 1%, you should be as concerned with wealth redistribution as you are with deficit spending and tax rates.
Not really a fair match, though. Kalm - v - Baldy is akin to a flyweight against...
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by kalm »

Forgot to post the link to the Iceland article. It's an interesting read about deregulated, low tax, free market principles:

http://www.alternet.org/economy/103525/ ... ning_sign/
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by BDKJMU »

kalm wrote:
Baldy wrote:
..and what type of Capitalism is that?

Sorry, but your Roosevelt worshiping New Deal legislation and it's other government run socialistic variations developed since FDR's rule has only brought bloated federal budgets and ever expanding federal bureaucracies. Social Security is bankrupt, Medicare is bankrupt, Medicaid is bankrupt, FannieMae, FreddieMac...all bankrupt. These ill conceived and mismanaged entitlement programs make up well over 50% of the federal budget, and the last I heard none of those bloated federal programs were a product of Ronald Reagan or his economic policies or philosophy.

However, those programs are a product of short sighted Liberal populism. It amazes me to see you continuously blame Reagan's philosophy for wrecking our economy while about two thirds of the federal budget are expenditures to entitlement programs that were conceived, developed, and implemented during 50 years of Liberal Democratic rule in Congress and useful idiots like FDR and LBJ.
Reagan did a terrific job of selling his economic policies and the notion of stoic self reliance while casting blame on the welfare state. So much so that they have pretty much been adopted by every president since.

For example, Reagan's tax cuts on corporations and the top marginal rate from the high 60's down to the mid 30's have stood ever since, while the size of government and the debt has increased under every administration since with the exception of the small tax increase and balanced budget that occurred under Clinton. Speaking of Clinton, he cut social welfare spending (very Reagan) but sadly increased corporate welfare spending.

Reagan also increased the national debt by more than every president from Washington through Carter combined.

And then there's the grand wizard of unrestricted free market capitalism and modern conservative economics, Alan Greenspan. A Reagan appointee, reaffirmed by every president thereafter until his retirement because everyone knew that Reaganomics worked.

Woops:
In Congressional testimony on October 23, 2008, Greenspan acknowledged that he was "partially" wrong in opposing regulation and stated "Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholder's equity — myself especially — are in a state of shocked disbelief."[36] Referring to his free-market ideology, Greenspan said: “I have found a flaw. I don’t know how significant or permanent it is. But I have been very distressed by that fact.” Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) then pressed him to clarify his words. “In other words, you found that your view of the world, your ideology, was not right, it was not working,” Waxman said. “Absolutely, precisely,” Greenspan replied. “You know, that’s precisely the reason I was shocked, because I have been going for 40 years or more with very considerable evidence that it was working exceptionally well.”[61] Greenspan admitted fault[62] in opposing regulation of derivatives and acknowledged that financial institutions didn't protect shareholders and investments as well as he expected.
Joshua Green has an excellent piece on the Reagan legacy in which he talks about how the size of the federal government expanded under Reagan's watch, how Reagan saved social security, that the number of workers on the federal payroll rose by 61,000 under Reagan. (By comparison, under Clinton, the number fell by 373,000), and how Reagan was responsible for the largest tax cut's (for the rich) and tax increases (including increases in FICA) in history.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/featur ... green.html

Here's economist Dean Baker writing on "Nine Misconceptions About Social Security":

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/98jul/socsec.htm
Small tax increase under Clinton :shock:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Clinton passed the largest tax increase in US history :roll:
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by kalm »

BDKJMU wrote:
kalm wrote:
Reagan did a terrific job of selling his economic policies and the notion of stoic self reliance while casting blame on the welfare state. So much so that they have pretty much been adopted by every president since.

For example, Reagan's tax cuts on corporations and the top marginal rate from the high 60's down to the mid 30's have stood ever since, while the size of government and the debt has increased under every administration since with the exception of the small tax increase and balanced budget that occurred under Clinton. Speaking of Clinton, he cut social welfare spending (very Reagan) but sadly increased corporate welfare spending.

Reagan also increased the national debt by more than every president from Washington through Carter combined.

And then there's the grand wizard of unrestricted free market capitalism and modern conservative economics, Alan Greenspan. A Reagan appointee, reaffirmed by every president thereafter until his retirement because everyone knew that Reaganomics worked.

Woops:



Joshua Green has an excellent piece on the Reagan legacy in which he talks about how the size of the federal government expanded under Reagan's watch, how Reagan saved social security, that the number of workers on the federal payroll rose by 61,000 under Reagan. (By comparison, under Clinton, the number fell by 373,000), and how Reagan was responsible for the largest tax cut's (for the rich) and tax increases (including increases in FICA) in history.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/featur ... green.html

Here's economist Dean Baker writing on "Nine Misconceptions About Social Security":

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/98jul/socsec.htm
Small tax increase under Clinton :shock:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Clinton passed the largest tax increase in US history :roll:
Actually within the context of the argument it was small (3%) when compared to Reagan's tax cut of 1982 (30%).

But now that you mention, you're wrong :thumb: :
The GOP claim is contradicted by a study published last year by the Office of Tax Analysis of Bush's own Treasury Department.

Now comes a thorough study of every tax bill enacted since 1940, showing that the Clinton tax increase was indeed large, but not the largest.

A tax increase in 1942 boosted federal revenues by 71%, for example, as the US geared up for war after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Measured in inflation-adjusted 1992 dollars, Roosevelt's wartime increase amounted to $73 billion a year, while Clinton's increase averaged $35 billion a year (average for the first two years.)

The study said that inflation-adjusted "constant dollars" is probably only the second -best measure of the size of a tax increase. "The single best measure for most purposes is probably the revenue effect as a percentage of GDP." That's Gross Domestic Product, the way we gauge the size of the economy. Clinton's tax increase isn't the biggest by that "best" measure, either. In the period since 1968, the study said, "the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982 was the biggest increase." That was the tax increase signed by Ronald Reagan, rescinding some of the effects of his huge tax cut passed the year before.

That 1982 tax increase only slightly exceeded Clinton's in inflation-adjusted dollars ($37 billion a year vs.. $32 billion) but it was much bigger in relation to the size of the economy. The '82 increase amounted to 0.8% of GDP (average for the first two years) while Clinton's was 0.5%.
http://www.factcheck.org/treasury_tax_e ... rease.html
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by BDKJMU »

Reagan's tax cut was in 81, not 82', And that was partially negated by the 82' tax increase.

Clinton's tax increase was still the largest in the nation's history in total dollars. And to call it small is pretty ridiculous.

So no, I wasn't wrong.
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by dbackjon »

Game set and match, kalm.
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by AZGrizFan »

TheDancinMonarch wrote:
dbackjon wrote:...than the disorganized anarchy of the Democratic Party.
The Democrats only appear disorganized because they are afraid to show their true face in public. Some of them are honest enough, or safe enough electorally, to say what they believe. The rest are not. Hence, what appears to be anarchy.
Whoah, whoah, whoah....let's hold the phone a minute here. All this time (for the past 18 months) we've been being told that it was the REPUBLICAN party that was in disorganized anarchy and that we wouldn't be a force to be reconed with for at least 15-20 years.

Now, suddenly it's the DONKS that are in "disarray"?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

My oh my, how quickly the worm has turned. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by Grizalltheway »

BDKJMU wrote:Reagan's tax cut was in 81, not 82', And that was partially negated by the 82' tax increase.

Clinton's tax increase was still the largest in the nation's history in total dollars. And to call it small is pretty ridiculous.

So no, I wasn't wrong.
Yet he still had a balanced budget, so what exactly is your gripe about that, other than the fact that he had a "D" next to his name?
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by Grizalltheway »

AZGrizFan wrote:
TheDancinMonarch wrote:
The Democrats only appear disorganized because they are afraid to show their true face in public. Some of them are honest enough, or safe enough electorally, to say what they believe. The rest are not. Hence, what appears to be anarchy.
Whoah, whoah, whoah....let's hold the phone a minute here. All this time (for the past 18 months) we've been being told that it was the REPUBLICAN party that was in disorganized anarchy and that we wouldn't be a force to be reconed with for at least 15-20 years.

Now, suddenly it's the DONKS that are in "disarray"?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

My oh my, how quickly the worm has turned. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Neither party is going anywhere anytime soon. This shit is cyclical. :coffee:
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by Wedgebuster »

Grizalltheway wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Whoah, whoah, whoah....let's hold the phone a minute here. All this time (for the past 18 months) we've been being told that it was the REPUBLICAN party that was in disorganized anarchy and that we wouldn't be a force to be reconed with for at least 15-20 years.

Now, suddenly it's the DONKS that are in "disarray"?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

My oh my, how quickly the worm has turned. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Neither party is going anywhere anytime soon. This shit is cyclical. :coffee:
WTF you talking about son? Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, they are the voice of today's anti Government conservatism..
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..And these folks are doing the dirty work in their honor. :nod:
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by Grizalltheway »

Yeah, those three are real visionaries. :lol: :lol:
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by Pwns »

Damn that Reagan...if it wasn't for him we could have continued down the path of beautiful stagflation of the roarin' 70s. :lol:
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Re: FOX News.. "most trusted"

Post by kalm »

Pwns wrote:Damn that Reagan...if it wasn't for him we could have continued down the path of beautiful stagflation of the roarin' 70s. :lol:
Reagan was a great orator who brought back hope and confidence in the American way.

He also beat stagflation with the help of Jimmy Carter's Fed Chairman, and the return to cheap oil.

Unfortunately, he didn't understand that hope and confidence are not the basis for an industrial policy. :ohno:
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