FCS Title Game Fight Heating Up

[AZGrizFan]

The west coaster's here like to claim the debate is between which city will support the game better, but actually your position is that it is unfair to the West Coast teams due to the travel.

Which is it the unfair debate or actually doing what is best for the FCS (attendance and support for the title game)?

You askin' me or that UD imbicile?

Becuase my point is that if it ain't Montana, ASU or GSU in the game, the game could be held just about anywhere and the attendance will be roughly the same as a Villanova/Richmond game.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

The west coaster's here like to claim the debate is between which city will support the game better, but actually your position is that it is unfair to the West Coast teams due to the travel.

Which is it the unfair debate or actually doing what is best for the FCS (attendance and support for the title game)?

You askin' me or that UD imbicile?

Becuase my point is that if it ain't Montana, ASU or GSU in the game, the game could be held just about anywhere and the attendance will be roughly the same as a Villanova/Richmond game.

The only game I've ever been to (been to all except the 09' game) where the other side even came CLOSE to the numbers on the Montana side was the game against GSU. JMU was the only other team that had what could be considered a respectable fan showing. Furman was the disappointing turnout though because their side was not even 1/2 full and they are a team with a great, long standing tradition.

You'd have to be a pretty serious tool to think that we have to carry water for the East Coast bitches that can't take the time out of their schedules to make it to a game. We go through many hoops to do our part and you bunch of little fancy lads can't take the time to go get in your cars and drive there. Your teams are great, you fans are fucking pathetic. Unfortunately the NCAA counted on a bunch of pussies from that neck of the woods to make it to the game and the fans out that way have consistently shit down their legs with it. Nothing works against your argument more than your own reason FOR why this game should be there.

[BDKJMU]

NC attendance figures sure don't support your Montana travels well theory.

2001 Montana vs Furman Locale: Chattanooga, Tennessee 12,698

A local team makes a difference on game attendance. Montana's participation does not.

You, sir, are an idiot.

All I can say is this: WHOEVER gets the game better hope like HELL that two teams like Villanova AND Richmond don't get to the game.

There are basically three schools that draw their fans to the game in Chatty: ASU (undisputed king of NC game attendance), GSU and Montana.

2007 App St 49-21 Delaware 23,010
2006 App St 28-17 U Mass 22,808
1999 Ga So 59-24 YSU 20,052
2005 App St 21-16 UNI 19,219
2008 Richmond 24-7 Montana 17,823
1998 UMass 55-43 Ga So 17,501
2000 Ga So 27-25 Montana 17,156
2004 JMU 31-21 Montana 15,599
1997 YSU 10-9 McNeese 14,771
2003 Delaware 40-0 Colgate 14,281
2009 Villanova 23-21 Montana 14,258
2001 Montana 13-6 Furman 12,698
2002 WKU 34-14 McNeese 12,360

Don't let the numbers fool you: 2/3 of the fans at the 2001 and 2009 games were Montana fans. WE don't have any difficulty traveling---if you actually attended a game, you'd realize that. Now, if you intend to make it Montana's responsibility to FILL the entire **** stadium, let's just move the game to Missoula. Otherwise, it'd be nice if the OTHER team could bring some fans occasionally. The teams on THIS list that should be embarrassed are WKU (2002), Villanova (2009), Delaware (2003), Furman (2001) and JMU (2004).

The KING of pathetic is 2002: Lake Charles, LA to Chatty is 568 miles. Bowling Green, KY to Chatty: 195 miles.

BTW, the 04' attendance you wrote between JMU & Montana wasn't 15,599. I keep seeing people cite that, Not sure why- that is wrong.

JMU has it at 16,771.
https://admin.xosn.com/fls/14400/stats/ ... ontana.htm

Montana has it at 16,771
http://filemanager.montanagrizzlies.com ... um-jmu.htm

The NCAA has it at 16,771:
http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/stats/fo ... afinal.htm

Wiki has it at 16,771
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Divis ... ampionship

[Col Hogan]

Chatty has two airport options; Nashville and Atlanta whereas Frisco has only one, DFW. [Is DFW that much cheaper from Missoula? And to the 3 weeks lead time, it would likely make a difference in Chatty too. They have done a great job one week before X-mas for years. I remind you 3 NC games have been held in Texas. One had a crowd of 13k and the other two 11k.

DFW and Love Field are both cheaper options than flying into Chattanooga.

DFW and Love Field are both within 30 mi of Pizza Hut Park. Your options of Nashville and Atlanta are not that close, are they?

And the comparison of championship games are not good. Those were in Wichita Falls, TX which is not accessible. Worse that Chattanooga as far as accessibility.

And at the end of the day - Chattanooga does not support the game. This game relies on the locals and Chatty just topped 10k local fans for the first time this past year. And that came under a threat of losing the game...so, that's what it takes? And attendance was bad as a whole this year.

Need to move it somewhere that can put butts in the seats, can market the game and utilize corporate partners. That's FRISCO!

What I find unfair in this competition is the fact that if Frisco gets the NC game, and outdraws Chatty, then some people will see "See, Frisco is better"...

Yet Chatty never will have held the game with a three week break, which can/should improve attendance by team supporters...

We'll be comparing different circumstances, which make bad analysis...

[TexasTerror]

What I find unfair in this competition is the fact that if Frisco gets the NC game, and outdraws Chatty, then some people will see "See, Frisco is better"...

Yet Chatty never will have held the game with a three week break, which can/should improve attendance by team supporters...

We'll be comparing different circumstances, which make bad analysis...

We'll be able to compare one thing and that one thing will be telling - LOCAL SUPPORT.

Sure, Chattanooga did not have three weeks between games, but they have typically had poor local support that is less than 50% of the stadium (if this year's 10.4k was the most bought locally).

If Frisco brings 12k of local support annually and the time delay allows for 8-9k of fans from outside to come in, this game will be sold out annually.

[AZGrizFan]

You, sir, are an idiot.

All I can say is this: WHOEVER gets the game better hope like HELL that two teams like Villanova AND Richmond don't get to the game.

There are basically three schools that draw their fans to the game in Chatty: ASU (undisputed king of NC game attendance), GSU and Montana.

2007 App St 49-21 Delaware 23,010
2006 App St 28-17 U Mass 22,808
1999 Ga So 59-24 YSU 20,052
2005 App St 21-16 UNI 19,219
2008 Richmond 24-7 Montana 17,823
1998 UMass 55-43 Ga So 17,501
2000 Ga So 27-25 Montana 17,156
2004 JMU 31-21 Montana 15,599
1997 YSU 10-9 McNeese 14,771
2003 Delaware 40-0 Colgate 14,281
2009 Villanova 23-21 Montana 14,258
2001 Montana 13-6 Furman 12,698
2002 WKU 34-14 McNeese 12,360

Don't let the numbers fool you: 2/3 of the fans at the 2001 and 2009 games were Montana fans. WE don't have any difficulty traveling---if you actually attended a game, you'd realize that. Now, if you intend to make it Montana's responsibility to FILL the entire **** stadium, let's just move the game to Missoula. Otherwise, it'd be nice if the OTHER team could bring some fans occasionally. The teams on THIS list that should be embarrassed are WKU (2002), Villanova (2009), Delaware (2003), Furman (2001) and JMU (2004).

The KING of pathetic is 2002: Lake Charles, LA to Chatty is 568 miles. Bowling Green, KY to Chatty: 195 miles.

BTW, the 04' attendance you wrote between JMU & Montana wasn't 15,599. I keep seeing people cite that, Not sure why- that is wrong.

JMU has it at 16,771.
https://admin.xosn.com/fls/14400/stats/ ... ontana.htm

Montana has it at 16,771
http://filemanager.montanagrizzlies.com ... um-jmu.htm

The NCAA has it at 16,771:
http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/stats/fo ... afinal.htm

Wiki has it at 16,771
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Divis ... ampionship

I get it from page 2 of this website http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/stats/fo ... esults.pdf, but even if it WAS 16,771, it doesn't change it's position relative to the listing.

JMU is a 3-wood away from Chatty. Why can ASU get 23,000 there and JMU can't come close to that?

[Saint3333]

You askin' me or that UD imbicile?

We go through many hoops to do our part and you bunch of little fancy lads can't take the time to go get in your cars and drive there. Your teams are great, you fans are **** pathetic.

So would you like to answer the question?

Also ASU fans are "pathetic" - this is a joke, stay classy.

The FCS title game should be in a location that at least one of the teams participating can drive to if we want more the 15K in attentance. If history is an indicator that is either in Montana or near the SoCon, MVC, and CAA schools (which UTC is). Since the inception of 1-AA a total of 5 current FCS teams west of the Mississippi not named Montana have made the title game, only ONE of those have made it in the last 20 years (McNeese in 2002).

99% of football fans outside of the FCS teams participating in the game care to attend the game.

[BDKJMU]

BTW, the 04' attendance you wrote between JMU & Montana wasn't 15,599. I keep seeing people cite that, Not sure why- that is wrong.

JMU has it at 16,771.
https://admin.xosn.com/fls/14400/stats/ ... ontana.htm

Montana has it at 16,771
http://filemanager.montanagrizzlies.com ... um-jmu.htm

The NCAA has it at 16,771:
http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/stats/fo ... afinal.htm

Wiki has it at 16,771
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Divis ... ampionship

I get it from page 2 of this website http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/stats/fo ... esults.pdf, but even if it WAS 16,771, it doesn't change it's position relative to the listing.

JMU is a 3-wood away from Chatty. Why can ASU get 23,000 there and JMU can't come close to that?

Funny, because as I cited, the NCAA.org in their own game stats lists the attendance as 16,771 (as does everyone else), but then NCAA.org in their record book lists it as 15,599. Sounds like NCAA.org has some sloppy record keeping of attendance.

1st of all, ASU didn't get 23k there for the 07' game. That was the total tickets sold. (I'm sure there were well over 23k asses in seats). I know the majority was ASU, but UD did have what, 25% of that crowd, maybe 6k?

JMU had about 8k there in 04'. JMU is about a 7+ hr drive from Chatty. The Richmond area alumni base around 8, the Tidewater around 9, and the DC/Baltimore around 10 hrs. I honestly think if JMU made the NC again in the next couple of years and it was held in Chatty there would be about 50% more fans there than in 04' for 2 reasons: Huge student body and alumni growth, and huge fan growth in the program.

There has been an explosive growth of JMU's student body and alumni base.Have to remember, JMU didn't even go co-ed till 66'. Back in the 80s JMU was under 10k students. When I got there in 93' was over 11k. When JMU beat Montana in 04' was a student body of under 16k (15,809). Now it is over 18k, and within 4 years projected to be over 19k. So within a few years JMU will have a student body about 20% bigger than 04', and an alumni population that's probably a 1/3rd bigger than 04'.

On top of that you have the fact that prior to 04' JMU had only been to the playoffs 5 times: 87' being the 1st time in a 1st round loss to Marshall, and 2 1st round and 2 quarterfinal losses in the 90's. Since 04' have had 4 more playoff trips, with an NC, a pre season #1 (05'), and last yr's semifinal with #1 ranking much of the season. Add on top of that the facilities upgrades, the 10 million Plecker Athletic Center opened in 05' and the new 62 million stadium expansion and renovation, the fan interest in the football program has taken off since 04'.

Again, I think JMU could bring a doz k to Chatty in mid December in the near future. But since we're likely talking an NC game that will be held in Frisco in early Jan with 3 weeks to plan, if JMU were to make it again probably would be lucky to get 5k there.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

So would you like to answer the question?

Also ASU fans are "pathetic" - this is a joke, stay classy.

The FCS title game should be in a location that at least one of the teams participating can drive to if we want more the 15K in attentance. If history is an indicator that is either in Montana or near the SoCon, MVC, and CAA schools (which UTC is). Since the inception of 1-AA a total of 5 current FCS teams west of the Mississippi not named Montana have made the title game, only ONE of those have made it in the last 20 years (McNeese in 2002).

99% of football fans outside of the FCS teams participating in the game care to attend the game.

STFU with your lame ass "stay classy" shit. If you've been involved at all in these discussions you'd realize that I AM NOT nor is anyone else including Delaware, ASU, GSU, or Montana in the discussion. Those teams are a known commodity and arguing about their fan contributions to the game would be silly. It is all the other East Coast pussies that can't be bothered to turn over the engine and DRIVE to the game. The fact that is near 75% of the FCS schools doesn't mean shit because only ONE of those schools is likely to be there. The ONE school that does make it is routinely outdrawn by the team from the West if that team is not ASU.

Hope that clears it up for ya Quadrathreenia.

[89Hen]

Most people are not willing to fly

[89Hen]

There are basically three schools that draw their fans to the game in Chatty: ASU (undisputed king of NC game attendance), GSU and Montana.

2003 Delaware 40-0 Colgate 14,281
2001 Montana 13-6 Furman 12,698

The teams on THIS list that should be embarrassed are WKU (2002), Villanova (2009), Delaware (2003), Furman (2001) and JMU (2004).

You're funny. The fact that I'm 100% POSITIVE that Furman brought more fans than Colgate, you're calling Delaware out while saying Montana fans are among the three best.

[89Hen]

DFW and Love Field are both cheaper options than flying into Chattanooga.

FWIW, it's cheaper for me to fly to Atlanta than Dallas. Either location, whether 30 or 100 miles to the stadium, I have to rent a car.

DCA > DFW = $277.40
DCA > DAL = $298.00
DCA > ATL = $222.30

Not appreciably different but certainly not cheaper.

[89Hen]

Need to move it somewhere that can put butts in the seats, can market the game and utilize corporate partners. That's FRISCO!

You really should be adding "IMO" instead of an !... IMO.

[89Hen]

if it ain't Montana, ASU or GSU in the game, the game could be held just about anywhere and the attendance will be roughly the same as a Villanova/Richmond game.

Even funnier that you said it over and over again. Montana has been a participant in 2 of the lowest 3 attendance totals in Chatty and you still insist on putting them in the top 3.

[89Hen]

Yet Chatty never will have held the game with a three week break, which can/should improve attendance by team supporters...

and the time delay allows for 8-9k of fans from outside to come in, this game will be sold out annually.

I think the time thing is a HUGE assumption at this point. Having the game pre-bowls and pre-Christmas could very well be just as advantageous as having more time to sell tix. By the first week in Jan everyone will be coming back to work/school from break and you're in the middle of the BCS season.

Montana - Winter Session, 2010: January 4
Delaware - Winter Session 2010: January 4
Appalachian State - Spring 2010: January 7 Registration

[danefan]

Most people are not willing to fly

nice quote manipulation hen

I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of the people who went to the game this year flew. The Nova fans probably even flew.

There's a very small # of people that will drive anywhere if it takes more than 10 hours to get there.

[89Hen]

I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of the people who went to the game this year flew.

And how was attendance?

[danefan]

I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of the people who went to the game this year flew.

And how was attendance?

Terrible because flying to Chatty sucks. That was the exact point of my post that you edited.

[89Hen]

Terrible because flying to Chatty sucks.

Flying anywhere sucks for a lot of people. You can't look around this board and get a feel for that. Most of us here would swim if we had to in order to get to the NC if our team were in it.

As soon as a generic fan realizes they have to get a ride to/park at their local airport, check their bags, get on a bird, rent a car, recover their bags... they are not going to go.

[danefan]

Terrible because flying to Chatty sucks.

Flying anywhere sucks for a lot of people. You can't look around this board and get a feel for that. Most of us here would swim if we had to in order to get to the NC if our team were in it.

As soon as a generic fan realizes they have to get a ride to/park at their local airport, check their bags, get on a bird, rent a car, recover their bags... they are not going to go.

We'll have to agree to disagree I guess. I think you'll find that more people would be willing to fly 3 hrs then drive 10 any day.

But regardless, as you say - it doesn't matter where the game is if "your team" is in it. You'll get there. The point is attracting fans from non-participating teams. Chatty hasn't even come close to doing that effectively. They've had 13 years to figure it out.

Why not give another location a shot?

[AZGrizFan]

if it ain't Montana, ASU or GSU in the game, the game could be held just about anywhere and the attendance will be roughly the same as a Villanova/Richmond game.

Even funnier that you said it over and over again. Montana has been a participant in 2 of the lowest 3 attendance totals in Chatty and you still insist on putting them in the top 3.

Actually attend a game there before you run your mouth.

[AZGrizFan]

if it ain't Montana, ASU or GSU in the game, the game could be held just about anywhere and the attendance will be roughly the same as a Villanova/Richmond game.

Even funnier that you said it over and over again. Montana has been a participant in 2 of the lowest 3 attendance totals in Chatty and you still insist on putting them in the top 3.

Even funnier is that the team they've gone up against was supposed to be the LOCAL team that was going to bring all the fans.

[AZGrizFan]

There are basically three schools that draw their fans to the game in Chatty: ASU (undisputed king of NC game attendance), GSU and Montana.

2003 Delaware 40-0 Colgate 14,281
2001 Montana 13-6 Furman 12,698

The teams on THIS list that should be embarrassed are WKU (2002), Villanova (2009), Delaware (2003), Furman (2001) and JMU (2004).

You're funny. The fact that I'm 100% POSITIVE that Furman brought more fans than Colgate, you're calling Delaware out while saying Montana fans are among the three best.

Thanks for making my point. Delawhere, Colgate and Furman are the LOCAL teams. They're the ones that (according to the logic of holding this game on the East Coast) should be bringing in the lions share of the fans, no?

[GannonFan]

The teams on THIS list that should be embarrassed are WKU (2002), Villanova (2009), Delaware (2003), Furman (2001) and JMU (2004).

The KING of pathetic is 2002: Lake Charles, LA to Chatty is 568 miles. Bowling Green, KY to Chatty: 195 miles.

Why would UD be embarrassed about 2003? The game does take two teams to have good attendance. In case you don't realize, Colgate is a pretty small school with a small following that happens to be buried in upstate New York. Heck, Colgate even decided, on their own, to give up home field advantage in the national semifinal game because they were losing gobs of money hosting games that year as one of the top seeds. As far as I remember, that's the only time that a team voluntarily forfeited homefield advantage in the playoffs so that says quite a lot. There were more than enough UD fans in Chatty in '03 - there just weren't lots of locals or lots of Colgate fans.

[AZGrizFan]

The teams on THIS list that should be embarrassed are WKU (2002), Villanova (2009), Delaware (2003), Furman (2001) and JMU (2004).

The KING of pathetic is 2002: Lake Charles, LA to Chatty is 568 miles. Bowling Green, KY to Chatty: 195 miles.

Why would UD be embarrassed about 2003? The game does take two teams to have good attendance. In case you don't realize, Colgate is a pretty small school with a small following that happens to be buried in upstate New York. Heck, Colgate even decided, on their own, to give up home field advantage in the national semifinal game because they were losing gobs of money hosting games that year as one of the top seeds. As far as I remember, that's the only time that a team voluntarily forfeited homefield advantage in the playoffs so that says quite a lot. There were more than enough UD fans in Chatty in '03 - there just weren't lots of locals or lots of Colgate fans.

Great. Same applies for the games Montana's been in. Why can ASU get 23k then?