Great West Conference Future

[SloStang]

People talk about the WAC folding if the MWC takes Boise, Nevada, Fresno. However, I think a reloaded WAC with Poly, Sac, Davis, Utah State, Idaho, Hawaii, even Fresno and Nevada could work.

Of course that means a new South Central/Western FBS conference would need to form or absorb the New Mexico State, LaTech and the up-in-comers.

CPSLO, SacSt and UC Davis have never beaten Montana in a regular season game in 32 tries (1-32 combined overall) and you think they would be prefered candidates to Montana? None of the three can average 10,000 attendance and Montana averages 25,000. Montana and Idaho are natural, long-time rivals. Think about it. The CA schools have not yet even established themselves as strong FCS programs. Only CPSLO has even made it to the playoffs.

LATech is likely to leave the WAC; not NMSU. UTEP is a more likely candidate to rejoin the WAC, a natural travel partner for NMSU.

Cal Poly is 1-0 against Montana in the only game that really mattered, the playoffs. Beside football, Cal Poly overall athletic programs are far better than Montana. Cal Poly would also bring top baseball, softball, volleyball, track and field, cross country and wrestling programs to WAC. That and Cal Poly is one of the top public universities in the country. Cal Poly has a lot to offer.

[collegesportsinfo]

wrong, about La Tech. No one else wants them and they don't want to go to a lesser conference like the Sun Belt. The only one that could leave the WAC is Boise St. for the MWC. WAC's list would have Montana, UTSA, Texas St. followed by any Cal school ready to move to FBS.

Right on.

* LA Tech joined the WAC because they had all the Texas schools...then the Texas schools & Tulsa left. so now they have no place to go since CUSA doesn't want them and they think they're too good for the Sunbelt.

* Sorry non-Montana fans: Montana is THE FCS program that FBS conferences would want to move up. And the WAC is the likely conference. Conferences make moves now based on potential revenue increases, not the performance of non-revenue sports. It's great for everyone to show their support for the non-revenue sports like Women's Volleyball, Golf, etc, but these $ports are decision makers like a +23,000 football attendance for Montana.

[collegesportsinfo]

People talk about the WAC folding if the MWC takes Boise, Nevada, Fresno. However, I think a reloaded WAC with Poly, Sac, Davis, Utah State, Idaho, Hawaii, even Fresno and Nevada could work.

Of course that means a new South Central/Western FBS conference would need to form or absorb the New Mexico State, LaTech and the up-in-comers.

CPSLO, SacSt and UC Davis have never beaten Montana in a regular season game in 32 tries (1-32 combined overall) and you think they would be prefered candidates to Montana? None of the three can average 10,000 attendance and Montana averages 25,000. Montana and Idaho are natural, long-time rivals. Think about it. The CA schools have not yet even established themselves as strong FCS programs. Only CPSLO has even made it to the playoffs.

LATech is likely to leave the WAC; not NMSU. UTEP is a more likely candidate to rejoin the WAC, a natural travel partner for NMSU.

And you couldnt' be further off on UTEP. UTEP does not want to be in a conference with NMSU. They've made that clear. And the Texas based CUSA is a more friendly travel conference than the WAC anyways as the Texas school identifies itself with, you guessed it, other Texas schools. It's not all that common for a school to leave a conference to make an "upgrade" only to return.

[collegesportsinfo]

wrong, about La Tech. No one else wants them and they don't want to go to a lesser conference like the Sun Belt. The only one that could leave the WAC is Boise St. for the MWC. WAC's list would have Montana, UTSA, Texas St. followed by any Cal school ready to move to FBS.

The likely spot for LATech is the Conf. USA, a partner for Tulane. After the WAC is raided by the MWC, it would not be a superior conf. to Conf. USA. Once the Big 10 and PAC 10 start the game, there will be a lot of musical chairs. Some logic might even prevail.

I could see LA Tech in CUSA, but it would take CUSA being raided to make room for them. And as many have pointed out, you might actually find Sunbelt programs like North Texas top the list, followed by an eastern member to appease the CUSA east members, with LA Tech then falling in. So it would likely take 2 CUSA spots for LA Tech to be there.


As for Sac St...the WAC would be fine for them.
They could perform well with Fresno and SJSU as local rivals. Wouldn't mind seeing it at all. And the WAC could really use some more schools or they'll drop below the Sunbelt in the pecking order once BSU leaves.

[Wildcat Ryan]

People talk about the WAC folding if the MWC takes Boise, Nevada, Fresno. However, I think a reloaded WAC with Poly, Sac, Davis, Utah State, Idaho, Hawaii, even Fresno and Nevada could work.

Of course that means a new South Central/Western FBS conference would need to form or absorb the New Mexico State, LaTech and the up-in-comers.

CPSLO, SacSt and UC Davis have never beaten Montana in a regular season game in 32 tries (1-32 combined overall) and you think they would be prefered candidates to Montana? None of the three can average 10,000 attendance and Montana averages 25,000. Montana and Idaho are natural, long-time rivals. Think about it. The CA schools have not yet even established themselves as strong FCS programs. Only CPSLO has even made it to the playoffs.

LATech is likely to leave the WAC; not NMSU. UTEP is a more likely candidate to rejoin the WAC, a natural travel partner for NMSU.

There is more than one sport in College athletics, outside of Football and maybe Womens basketball, what has Montana done?

[SuperHornet]

CPSLO, SacSt and UC Davis have never beaten Montana in a regular season game in 32 tries (1-32 combined overall) and you think they would be prefered candidates to Montana? None of the three can average 10,000 attendance and Montana averages 25,000. Montana and Idaho are natural, long-time rivals. Think about it. The CA schools have not yet even established themselves as strong FCS programs. Only CPSLO has even made it to the playoffs.

LATech is likely to leave the WAC; not NMSU. UTEP is a more likely candidate to rejoin the WAC, a natural travel partner for NMSU.

There is more than one sport in College athletics, outside of Football and maybe Womens basketball, what has Montana done?

Uh, Ryan. Montana HAS made the NCAAs in MBB in years when Weber didn't. Quite recently, too.

[Fresno St. Alum]

I can't see why anyone would knock Montana. I'd want them in the WAC yesterday. They are great in football and good in basketball. The other sports aren't on TV so they aren't that popular.

[GrizMadman2]

This thread seems to be about more than the future of the GWC. It involves many FCS schools, as well as some DII schools. It involves FBS conferences, also. It's about the future of the FCS, in the West, at least. After reading many of the posts, here, I don't envy all the possibilities in conference realignments that the FCS committee will face once the moratorium is off. I hope there's a rocket scientist on staff to help it out.

[Herky]

CPSLO, SacSt and UC Davis have never beaten Montana in a regular season game in 32 tries (1-32 combined overall) and you think they would be prefered candidates to Montana? None of the three can average 10,000 attendance and Montana averages 25,000. Montana and Idaho are natural, long-time rivals. Think about it. The CA schools have not yet even established themselves as strong FCS programs. Only CPSLO has even made it to the playoffs.

LATech is likely to leave the WAC; not NMSU. UTEP is a more likely candidate to rejoin the WAC, a natural travel partner for NMSU.

Cal Poly is 1-0 against Montana in the only game that really mattered, the playoffs. Beside football, Cal Poly overall athletic programs are far better than Montana. Cal Poly would also bring top baseball, softball, volleyball, track and field, cross country and wrestling programs to WAC. That and Cal Poly is one of the top public universities in the country. Cal Poly has a lot to offer.

I agree Slo, other than football, which is all UM people EVER talk about, their athletics as a whole arent that great. Football is all they have going for them and everyone knows the ENTIRE athletic program is taken into consideration, not just football or basketball, when conferences are looking at new members. Sorry UM people.

[Herky]

[GrizMadman2]

Cal Poly is 1-0 against Montana in the only game that really mattered, the playoffs. Beside football, Cal Poly overall athletic programs are far better than Montana. Cal Poly would also bring top baseball, softball, volleyball, track and field, cross country and wrestling programs to WAC. That and Cal Poly is one of the top public universities in the country. Cal Poly has a lot to offer.

I agree Slo, other than football, which is all UM people EVER talk about, their athletics as a whole arent that great. Football is all they have going for them and everyone knows the ENTIRE athletic program is taken into consideration, not just football or basketball, when conferences are looking at new members. Sorry UM people.

You both cite reasonable observations re: UM athletics. Off the top of my head, here are sports at UM:

Men/women: Basketball, track & field, tennis
Women: Volleyball, soccer, golf
Men: Football

I could be leaving out something. I do know we don't have swimming, skiing, hockey, baseball, softball, or wrestling. We once did have swimming & baseball, but those were dropped when Title IX came in. (I can be corrected on all this.) Point I'm making: UM does not have the resources to fund, with Title IX, any more programs. Yes, the observation of the fan emphasis on football is well taken. As it is, there is bitching by people like kemajic, re: the UM president siphoning off football revenues for the other sports & possibly other UM programs. I don't know to what extent this siphoning off goes on.

Something else to consider. Although it may be true that UM doesn't offer the number of sports other than football & basketball that CalPoly does, it seems UM does offer & fund at least a minimum of sports that meet NCAA requirements. Now, whether a MWC or a WAC will compare the total athletic program of one school to another in determining access to the conference, I don't know. I do know that UM sports other than football do compete on a D1 level. And, it's not unusual for football to have a different conference alignment than the other sports.

[Herky]

I agree Slo, other than football, which is all UM people EVER talk about, their athletics as a whole arent that great. Football is all they have going for them and everyone knows the ENTIRE athletic program is taken into consideration, not just football or basketball, when conferences are looking at new members. Sorry UM people.

You both cite reasonable observations re: UM athletics. Off the top of my head, here are sports at UM:

Men/women: Basketball, track & field, tennis
Women: Volleyball, soccer, golf
Men: Football

I could be leaving out something. I do know we don't have swimming, skiing, hockey, baseball, softball, or wrestling. We once did have swimming & baseball, but those were dropped when Title IX came in. (I can be corrected on all this.) Point I'm making: UM does not have the resources to fund, with Title IX, any more programs. Yes, the observation of the fan emphasis on football is well taken. As it is, there is bitching by people like kemajic, re: the UM president siphoning off football revenues for the other sports & possibly other UM programs. I don't know to what extent this siphoning off goes on.

Something else to consider. Although it may be true that UM doesn't offer the number of sports other than football & basketball that CalPoly does, it seems UM does offer & fund at least a minimum of sports that meet NCAA requirements. Now, whether a MWC or a WAC will compare the total athletic program of one school to another in determining access to the conference, I don't know. I do know that UM sports other than football do compete on a D1 level. And, it's not unusual for football to have a different conference alignment than the other sports.

Great points and a well articulated post.

A quick look at UM's athletic page and I counted 14 athletic teams, I beleive the minimum for FBS is 16. If UM can't afford to field any other athletic teams, they will never go FBS. Without being able to fund anymore sports, as you said, the UM move-up discussion is over.

Both Sac State and Cal Poly field 20 athletic teams. Not saying they are a better fit, just trying to put things into perspective.

[dbackjon]

Yes, Montana fields the NCAA FCS minimum

[kemajic]

I agree Slo, other than football, which is all UM people EVER talk about, their athletics as a whole arent that great. Football is all they have going for them and everyone knows the ENTIRE athletic program is taken into consideration, not just football or basketball, when conferences are looking at new members. Sorry UM people.

SacSt fans are unaware of basketball; understandably. Maybe it's during volleyball season....

[SDHornet]

I agree Slo, other than football, which is all UM people EVER talk about, their athletics as a whole arent that great. Football is all they have going for them and everyone knows the ENTIRE athletic program is taken into consideration, not just football or basketball, when conferences are looking at new members. Sorry UM people.

SacSt fans are unaware of basketball; understandably. Maybe it's during volleyball season....

A little slow to the draw on this one Kem...football season can't kickoff soon enough...

[Herky]

I agree Slo, other than football, which is all UM people EVER talk about, their athletics as a whole arent that great. Football is all they have going for them and everyone knows the ENTIRE athletic program is taken into consideration, not just football or basketball, when conferences are looking at new members. Sorry UM people.

SacSt fans are unaware of basketball; understandably. Maybe it's during volleyball season....

I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you kema, in fact, I'm just tired of the sarcastic un-thought provoking comments you consistantly make whenever someone has a differing opinion or view than you do.

[S F State Gaters]

interesting thread and lots of topics addressed above. I'm one of those Cal State folks who came into the CSU just after they all dropped football en masse, and want to figure out how to get it back. Cal-Now was pretty thorough, however, and the single best aspect of the CSU system - the fantastically high female-to-male-ratio - is what makes it virtually impossible for any school that dropped the sport in the '90's to bring it back. They're not going to do it, even when they are presented with perfectly legitimate models for doing so (the most obvious being the Pioneer league/ San Diego model, which is potentially around a cool million dollars cheaper than going the full scholarship route)

So the great west knows it isn't going to be saved by Long Beach State or CSU Fullerton. The Big West is a Baseball conference, pure and simple- except, it doesn't seem to be able to win championships in the one sport it prides itself upon, what does that tell you? The more i learn about the Big West the less inclined i am to root for their teams, dispite their being the places my family comes from.

The Great West's future seems to be irrevocably tied to the Big Sky. WAC people are really excited about Montana, but i don't think they know how tough it would be to bring them up to FBS given the lack of sports that aren't football. I think honestly the best chance for WAC expansion is probably Texas State and even UTSA, there is a lot of potential there, they are the last schools around that are willing to spend money on the thing.

The Great West is in a mandatory holding pattern and just rooting for the status quo, because there isn't really a good option out there that would make everybody happy. Except for a California school bringing back football. That's pretty much the only thing that would help everybody out at this point...

[Herky]

interesting thread and lots of topics addressed above. I'm one of those Cal State folks who came into the CSU just after they all dropped football en masse, and want to figure out how to get it back. Cal-Now was pretty thorough, however, and the single best aspect of the CSU system - the fantastically high female-to-male-ratio - is what makes it virtually impossible for any school that dropped the sport in the '90's to bring it back. They're not going to do it, even when they are presented with perfectly legitimate models for doing so (the most obvious being the Patriot league/ San Diego model, which is potentially around a cool million dollars cheaper than going the full scholarship route)

So the great west knows it isn't going to be saved by Long Beach State or CSU Fullerton. The Big West is a Baseball conference, pure and simple- except, it doesn't seem to be able to win championships in the one sport it prides itself upon, what does that tell you? The more i learn about the Big West the less inclined i am to root for their teams, dispite their being the places my family comes from.

The Great West's future seems to be irrevocably tied to the Big Sky. WAC people are really excited about Montana, but i don't think they know how tough it would be to bring them up to FBS given the lack of sports that aren't football. I think honestly the best chance for WAC expansion is probably Texas State and even UTSA, there is a lot of potential there, they are the last schools around that are willing to spend money on the thing.

The Great West is in a mandatory holding pattern and just rooting for the status quo, because there isn't really a good option out there that would make everybody happy. Except for a California school bringing back football. That's pretty much the only thing that would help everybody out at this point...

CSULB and CSUF will never bring back football, like you said. But maybe, just maybe, Cal State Bakersfield could field a team. Just an idea, I havent heard of any talk, but I think it would be great.