Student Loan Forgivness

[UNI88]

Here's my solution for this: the government needs to allow students to commit hours to public service during school and in exchange pay up to a certain amount of tuition. The government already has loan forgiveness programs where you can work in organizations like Americorps or the Peace Corps in exchange for loan forgiveness, but you can only get into the programs after you graduate. Might as well have people do those kind of things while they are in school as it is easier to get the extra work done the than when they have a full-time job. It beats the heck out of mandatory community service for high school students, too.

That, and colleges seriously need to cut costs. Too many schools are trying to attract students who want college life to be bread, circuses, and orgies. They're the very same ones who will major in psychology or multi-cultural rainforest social-justice studies, do a poor job of building up a resume during their school days, and complain that they can't get a job that will allow them to pay off their debts.

That and you learn the same history/stats/medicine, etc... at AppState than you would at Harvard. Who is smarter, the guy that paid $40k for his Business degree or the guy that paid +$100k?

But at Harvard you meet a bunch of other people who paid $100k and if you're smart you use that network to get higher paying jobs and make more money over the course of your working life.

[Ibanez]

That and you learn the same history/stats/medicine, etc... at AppState than you would at Harvard. Who is smarter, the guy that paid $40k for his Business degree or the guy that paid +$100k?

But at Harvard you meet a bunch of other people who paid $100k and if you're smart you use that network to get higher paying jobs and make more money over the course of your working life.

But the fact remains, you paid more for the same product. And if you're smart, school shouldn't matter. Your grades, internships, etc....will make you successful.


NO doubt, going to an Ivy League school carries a lot of weight.

[danefan]

But at Harvard you meet a bunch of other people who paid $100k and if you're smart you use that network to get higher paying jobs and make more money over the course of your working life.

But the fact remains, you paid more for the same product. And if you're smart, school shouldn't matter. Your grades, internships, etc....will make you successful.


NO doubt, going to an Ivy League school carries a lot of weight.

I think if you really looked at it, the effective cost of attending an Ivy league school is probably very low per student. They give out just oodles of grants and "free" financial aid.

The real expense in higher ed is from small non-ivy liberal arts schools (like the Patriot League and NESCAC schools) that don't have the bankroll to give out the generous financial aid the Ivy's do, but that try and emulate the Ivy education and therefore have expenses that are through the roof.

[Ibanez]

But the fact remains, you paid more for the same product. And if you're smart, school shouldn't matter. Your grades, internships, etc....will make you successful.


NO doubt, going to an Ivy League school carries a lot of weight.

I think if you really looked at it, the effective cost of attending an Ivy league school is probably very low per student. They give out just oodles of grants and "free" financial aid.

The real expense in higher ed is from small non-ivy liberal arts schools (like the Patriot League and NESCAC schools) that don't have the bankroll to give out the generous financial aid the Ivy's do, but that try and emulate the Ivy education and therefore have expenses that are through the roof.

Why did you put free in parentheses? ARe you implying it isn't?

[danefan]

I think if you really looked at it, the effective cost of attending an Ivy league school is probably very low per student. They give out just oodles of grants and "free" financial aid.

The real expense in higher ed is from small non-ivy liberal arts schools (like the Patriot League and NESCAC schools) that don't have the bankroll to give out the generous financial aid the Ivy's do, but that try and emulate the Ivy education and therefore have expenses that are through the roof.

Why did you put free in parentheses? ARe you implying it isn't?

Yes - you have to exchange your work ethic for a sense of entitlement at the door.

[Ibanez]

Why did you put free in parentheses? ARe you implying it isn't?

Yes - you have to exchange your work ethic for a sense of entitlement at the door.

Oh really? I'm not sure I could do that.


Do you think the sense of entitlement is a 6th sense?

[danefan]

Yes - you have to exchange your work ethic for a sense of entitlement at the door.

Oh really? I'm not sure I could do that.


Do you think the sense of entitlement is a 6th sense?

I think nurture wins over nature in the sense of entitlement debate.

[YoUDeeMan]

I just wanted to hear thoughts on this. Since the Obama administration wanted to forgive all kinds of debts to jumpstart the economy and it hasn't done much what about forgiving student loans?


I graduate in May, and at that point Sara and I will be close to $120,000 in student loan debt with Sara having another year of her masters left. With the number of kids going to college and coming out so far in debt they struggle to make payments of any kind.

Would forgiving at least some of student loans help the economy at all? Give the younger, more than likely higher spending, generation some extra money to use?

PAY YOUR DEBT. YOU WILLINGLY TOOK THE LOAN...PAY IT BACK.

End of story.

[Grizalltheway]

But the fact remains, you paid more for the same product. And if you're smart, school shouldn't matter. Your grades, internships, etc....will make you successful.


NO doubt, going to an Ivy League school carries a lot of weight.

I think if you really looked at it, the effective cost of attending an Ivy league school is probably very low per student. They give out just oodles of grants and "free" financial aid.

The real expense in higher ed is from small non-ivy liberal arts schools (like the Patriot League and NESCAC schools) that don't have the bankroll to give out the generous financial aid the Ivy's do, but that try and emulate the Ivy education and therefore have expenses that are through the roof.

No kidding. Tuition at GWU is 41k a year.

http://colonialcentral.gwu.edu/tuition/Undergraduate/

[danefan]

I think if you really looked at it, the effective cost of attending an Ivy league school is probably very low per student. They give out just oodles of grants and "free" financial aid.

The real expense in higher ed is from small non-ivy liberal arts schools (like the Patriot League and NESCAC schools) that don't have the bankroll to give out the generous financial aid the Ivy's do, but that try and emulate the Ivy education and therefore have expenses that are through the roof.

No kidding. Tuition at GWU is 41k a year.

http://colonialcentral.gwu.edu/tuition/Undergraduate/

And that's just the TUITION! Room and Board is another $10,000 at least.

Most of the NESCAC Schools (Hamilton, Amherst, Williams, etc.) are all in the same range topping out at around $50,000+ for tuition and room and board.

They're like private boarding schools. Very small. Very exclusive. And a cult-like post-graduate business network. Worth it if you can afford it, but not if the kid has to take a loan, IMO.

[Franks Tanks]

Here's my solution for this: the government needs to allow students to commit hours to public service during school and in exchange pay up to a certain amount of tuition. The government already has loan forgiveness programs where you can work in organizations like Americorps or the Peace Corps in exchange for loan forgiveness, but you can only get into the programs after you graduate. Might as well have people do those kind of things while they are in school as it is easier to get the extra work done the than when they have a full-time job. It beats the heck out of mandatory community service for high school students, too.

That, and colleges seriously need to cut costs. Too many schools are trying to attract students who want college life to be bread, circuses, and orgies. They're the very same ones who will major in psychology or multi-cultural rainforest social-justice studies, do a poor job of building up a resume during their school days, and complain that they can't get a job that will allow them to pay off their debts.

That and you learn the same history/stats/medicine, etc... at AppState than you would at Harvard. Who is smarter, the guy that paid $40k for his Business degree or the guy that paid +$100k?

Maybe at the most simplistic level yes the subjects are the same, but the way the classes are taught and what is expected of the students is quite different. And I am not picking on APP State or anything, but take a History class at Harvard and one at APP State and I guarantee they will be wildly different.

Also the guy that paid 100k for a business degree at Harvard is smarter. When Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Morgan Stanley etc start recruiting investments bankers from App State you will then have an arguement. Fact is the best companis recruit almost exclusively from the best schools, and if you dont attend a school like that your chances of landing such a position is extremely small.

[Ibanez]

That and you learn the same history/stats/medicine, etc... at AppState than you would at Harvard. Who is smarter, the guy that paid $40k for his Business degree or the guy that paid +$100k?

Maybe at the most simplistic level yes the subjects are the same, but the way the classes are taught and what is expected of the students is quite different. And I am not picking on APP State or anything, but take a History class at Harvard and one at APP State and I guarantee they will be wildly different.

Also the guy that paid 100k for a business degree at Harvard is smarter. When Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Morgan Stanley etc start recruiting investments bankers from App State you will then have an arguement. Fact is the best companis recruit almost exclusively from the best schools, and if you dont attend a school like that your chances of landing such a position is extremely small.

There is a difference between smart and intelligent.
Allow me to give you story.

My uncle graduated from Clemson University in the 1960's with an Engineering degree. He didn't have the best grades but he could apply the knowledge(intelligent). He went to a job interview and was competeing against a guy with better grades and from a bigger school. They were given a task and whoever was faster/better, etc.. got the job. My uncle won that job. The other guy was smart, he knew the principles andthe math but had difficulty applying it. And as for success, many of the redeveloment of Greenville, SC, it's buildings, hangers, homes, etc... were completed by the enginerring company my uncle founded.

So...just because you go to a big fancy school does not necessarily mean you are smarter.

[Franks Tanks]

Maybe at the most simplistic level yes the subjects are the same, but the way the classes are taught and what is expected of the students is quite different. And I am not picking on APP State or anything, but take a History class at Harvard and one at APP State and I guarantee they will be wildly different.

Also the guy that paid 100k for a business degree at Harvard is smarter. When Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Morgan Stanley etc start recruiting investments bankers from App State you will then have an arguement. Fact is the best companis recruit almost exclusively from the best schools, and if you dont attend a school like that your chances of landing such a position is extremely small.

There is a difference between smart and intelligent.
Allow me to give you story.

My uncle graduated from Clemson University in the 1960's with an Engineering degree. He didn't have the best grades but he could apply the knowledge(intelligent). He went to a job interview and was competeing against a guy with better grades and from a bigger school. They were given a task and whoever was faster/better, etc.. got the job. My uncle won that job. The other guy was smart, he knew the principles andthe math but had difficulty applying it. And as for success, many of the redeveloment of Greenville, SC, it's buildings, hangers, homes, etc... were completed by the enginerring company my uncle founded.

So...just because you go to a big fancy school does not necessarily mean you are smarter.

Who said that was the case.

I stated that certian opportunites get opended up by attending certain schools.

Depending on an individuals aspiration it makes sense for them to spend more and go to a particlar school. This is alll

[Ibanez]

There is a difference between smart and intelligent.
Allow me to give you story.

My uncle graduated from Clemson University in the 1960's with an Engineering degree. He didn't have the best grades but he could apply the knowledge(intelligent). He went to a job interview and was competeing against a guy with better grades and from a bigger school. They were given a task and whoever was faster/better, etc.. got the job. My uncle won that job. The other guy was smart, he knew the principles andthe math but had difficulty applying it. And as for success, many of the redeveloment of Greenville, SC, it's buildings, hangers, homes, etc... were completed by the enginerring company my uncle founded.

So...just because you go to a big fancy school does not necessarily mean you are smarter.

Who said that was the case.

I stated that certian opportunites get opended up by attending certain schools.

Depending on an individuals aspiration it makes sense for them to spend more and go to a particlar school. This is alll

I agree. Sorry, i'm so fucking exhausted. These 75 hour work weeks are starting to get to me.

[GannonFan]

That and you learn the same history/stats/medicine, etc... at AppState than you would at Harvard. Who is smarter, the guy that paid $40k for his Business degree or the guy that paid +$100k?

Maybe at the most simplistic level yes the subjects are the same, but the way the classes are taught and what is expected of the students is quite different. And I am not picking on APP State or anything, but take a History class at Harvard and one at APP State and I guarantee they will be wildly different.

Also the guy that paid 100k for a business degree at Harvard is smarter. When Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Morgan Stanley etc start recruiting investments bankers from App State you will then have an arguement. Fact is the best companis recruit almost exclusively from the best schools, and if you dont attend a school like that your chances of landing such a position is extremely small.

I agree with your second paragraph - the doors that get opened and the networking you can get by attending a school like Harvard are easily the biggest difference between a Harvard and an Appy St. However, the first paragraph is a bit of bunk - there are plenty of places where the academics are just as difficult, if not more so, than a Harvard. The main difference is the opportunities that come after graduation.

[Franks Tanks]

Maybe at the most simplistic level yes the subjects are the same, but the way the classes are taught and what is expected of the students is quite different. And I am not picking on APP State or anything, but take a History class at Harvard and one at APP State and I guarantee they will be wildly different.

Also the guy that paid 100k for a business degree at Harvard is smarter. When Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Morgan Stanley etc start recruiting investments bankers from App State you will then have an arguement. Fact is the best companis recruit almost exclusively from the best schools, and if you dont attend a school like that your chances of landing such a position is extremely small.

I agree with your second paragraph - the doors that get opened and the networking you can get by attending a school like Harvard are easily the biggest difference between a Harvard and an Appy St. However, the first paragraph is a bit of bunk - there are plenty of places where the academics are just as difficult, if not more so, than a Harvard. The main difference is the opportunities that come after graduation.

Tell us how the EE department at Delaware is far superior to Harvard Gannon Fan.

Again I didnt say Harvard has the best academica in the land or the hardest classes. However, elite colleges are made up of exceptional students and profs tend to ask more of these students. They require a higher level of critical thinking and analysis, and expect better work.

[GannonFan]

I agree with your second paragraph - the doors that get opened and the networking you can get by attending a school like Harvard are easily the biggest difference between a Harvard and an Appy St. However, the first paragraph is a bit of bunk - there are plenty of places where the academics are just as difficult, if not more so, than a Harvard. The main difference is the opportunities that come after graduation.

Tell us how the EE department at Delaware is far superior to Harvard Gannon Fan.

Again I didnt say Harvard has the best academica in the land or the hardest classes. However, elite colleges are made up of exceptional students and profs tend to ask more of these students. They require a higher level of critical thinking and analysis, and expect better work.

Hey, I'll tell you how Delaware can be just as hard academically as Harvard when you can convince me that they aren't. I had plenty of smart people in my ChemE classes at UD that could've gone anywhere. Elite colleges aren't elite only because they have "exceptional students". Certainly they do, although it's hardly as certain as you make it out to be, but there are plenty of elite colleges that are "elite" because they give their students the networking and the name on the diploma to be successful after college. Of course, it also doesn't hurt that plenty of those kids already come from well-to-do families as well. It's self fulfilling in that way - have a school where rich, well-to-do kids all come together, and shockingly, those kids end up well-to-do after college. But I'm sure it's all about hard work and critical thinking and analysis.

[Ibanez]

I agree with your second paragraph - the doors that get opened and the networking you can get by attending a school like Harvard are easily the biggest difference between a Harvard and an Appy St. However, the first paragraph is a bit of bunk - there are plenty of places where the academics are just as difficult, if not more so, than a Harvard. The main difference is the opportunities that come after graduation.

Tell us how the EE department at Delaware is far superior to Harvard Gannon Fan.

Again I didnt say Harvard has the best academica in the land or the hardest classes. However, elite colleges are made up of exceptional students and profs tend to ask more of these students. They require a higher level of critical thinking and analysis, and expect better work.

Yes, I understand that. My point is...is that you will learn the same facts of about DDay at CCU than you would at Stanford. I studied under one of the leading experts on slavery and Gullah Culture while at CCU and it's the specifics that make the program. I had some difficult, difficult courses. Coastal wasn't a flake school just because it was near the beach. I get that Harvard expects more, but you still learn the same basics. You still learn the same math, the same English Language. I think you're telling me that at a Harvard or Yale, there is a different approach due to the caliber of the student.

But i digresss, I would welcome forgiveness(for myself of course) but worry about the econimic impact on the lending institutions.

[Biff]

I'm not a fan of student loan forgiveness.

Pretty much for the same reason I was against mortgage assistance.

I busted my ass to pay off my student loans immediately after law school. I did the same thing for my mortgage.

If we're forgiving debts, I'd like to be paid back for my loans that are already paid off early.

I'm all for an extended deferral though. That will achieve the same results (cash flow) and people won't get off on their committments scott free.

Good take danefan. Part of the problem is there's a finite amount of ass busters in the country. Education helps drive private industry and provides economic stimulus. It should be inexpensive if not free. I wonder how european countries are getting away with it?

Nothing is free. We will pay for education either through taxes or from our pockets. Which would you rather?

I don't see how education stimulates the economy. Hard work does. If someone can't bust their ass to pay their student loans, I doubt they are going to bust their ass to help stimulate the economy.

Public undegrad education is going to be as bad as public K-12. Some places it works, some it doesn't.

[Franks Tanks]

Tell us how the EE department at Delaware is far superior to Harvard Gannon Fan.

Again I didnt say Harvard has the best academica in the land or the hardest classes. However, elite colleges are made up of exceptional students and profs tend to ask more of these students. They require a higher level of critical thinking and analysis, and expect better work.

Yes, I understand that. My point is...is that you will learn the same facts of about DDay at CCU than you would at Stanford. I studied under one of the leading experts on slavery and Gullah Culture while at CCU and it's the specifics that make the program. I had some difficult, difficult courses. Coastal wasn't a flake school just because it was near the beach. I get that Harvard expects more, but you still learn the same basics. You still learn the same math, the same English Language. I think you're telling me that at a Harvard or Yale, there is a different approach due to the caliber of the student.

But i digresss, I would welcome forgiveness(for myself of course) but worry about the econimic impact on the lending institutions.

That is my assumption. Great students and successful people attend any number of universities. Attending a school doesnt guarantee or prevent one from being successful. Just because someone went to one place over another doesnt mean they are smarter or a bettter worker, but if an indivual went to a school like Harvard certain assumptions can be made.

In my experience I do feel that elite schools challenge students in a different way overall from day one. So even an intro class requires critical thinking and analysis, just not a regurgiated research paper for example. Great profs and extremely challenging classes exist at Harvard, Penn State, CCU, APP State and anywhere. Just as some school you can slide by by taking easy classes-- at elite schools even the "easy" classes have profs that push students.


However certain schools and certain programs have different standards and expect more from students.

[AZGrizFan]

$70k? $90k?

Are all you fuckers going to Ivy league schools?

Clenz, aren't you FROM Iowa? How in the FUCK did you rack up $120k between you and your wife?

[clenz]

$70k? $90k?

Are all you fuckers going to Ivy league schools?

Clenz, aren't you FROM Iowa? How in the FUCK did you rack up $120k between you and your wife?

I went to a private school at first. I paid $17,284 for one semester there. Neither Sara nor I have gotten ANY financial aid during our time in school. I have 4 years of student loans 100% in my name for 100% of my tuition and to help cover living costs. Sara has basically half of her student loan for her first four years in her name, her parents took on half, and all of her 2 years, thus far, of grad school 100% under her name, plus next year. I'm at about 68K after this year by myself. Plus I have my internship next semester, which will be unpaid, that I have to get a loan for...unless I get aid next year which I might since I got married and Sara and I don't make shit for money.


Apparently I don't qualify for need based assistance because my parents make to much money....apparently making less than $40k a year between the two of them combined means we don't need any money financially. I applied for a hardship grant because of medical costs related to us spending 10k plus a year growing up because my mother has some serious kidney issues...didn't get it because we made too much money.


I'll break down about what I took out in loans each year so you understand it

Freshman year - 1 semester @ 17,284 (that was just tuition and board since I lived on campus) 1 semester at about 7K

Sophomore year - I went to a CC so I only took about 15K out to pay tuition, rent, utilities, etc...

Junior year - costs for a year at UNI is $13,166. I took out 18K to cover everything for me from August to August

Senior year - cost at UNI is $13,616. I took out 18K to cover everything.


18 K seems like a lot but it is what UNI suggests taking to cover which it does with some left over but i don't want to be caught without money because I didn't take enough to cover myself.

[AZGrizFan]

Sure glad I sponged off the government for my Bachelors.

[blueballs]

I worked in a liquor store for $100/day in college and sold enough weed on the side to pay for everything- tuition, books, room, board, frat dues, clothes, everything... My parents were considered too affluent for me to get scholarship money playing ball, that coin went to the minority players.

My parents were amazed that I never asked them for coin after my first year in school, but they never asked how I did it, probably because they didn't really want to know the answer.

If there's a will there's a way...

[clenz]

I worked in a liquor store for $100/day in college and sold enough weed on the side to pay for everything- tuition, books, room, board, frat dues, clothes, everything... My parents were considered too affluent for me to get scholarship money playing ball, that coin went to the minority players.

My parents were amazed that I never asked them for coin after my first year in school, but they never asked how I did it, probably because they didn't really want to know the answer.

If there's a will there's a way...

100 a day to work at a liquor store? Wow...