Taliban Rape Tapes: A ‘Muslim Abu Ghraib’

[AZGrizFan]

I'm talking about Abu Ghraib, kalm. Do you consider what happened at Abu Ghraib "torture"?

Yes or no.

I can't help it if the title of the thread is stupidly named. And for the record, I already realize the bad guys chop off heads and the like. I'm more interested in our reaction to it, the perserverance of justice, and maintaining the laws that seperate us from them.

You can't answer the question, can you? And SeattleGriz didn't "title the thread". The first sentence in the article compares it to Abu Ghraib.

[Skjellyfetti]

First, a lot of y'all forget how bad our abuse at Abu Ghraib was. It was FAR worse than "reading them the Bible" and "flushing the Koran down the toilet."

And, AZ... prisoners DID die at Abu Ghraib... DURING interrogations. Not sure where you heard they didn't... chain email or from Hannity?

The deaths include the killing in November of a high-level Iraqi general who was shoved into a sleeping bag and suffocated, according to the Pentagon report. The documents contradict an earlier Defense Department statement that said the general died "of natural causes" during an interrogation. Pentagon officials declined to comment on the new disclosure.

Another Iraqi military officer, records show, was asphyxiated after being gagged, his hands tied to the top of his cell door. Another detainee died "while undergoing stress technique interrogation," involving smothering and "chest compressions," according to the documents.

Details of the death investigations, involving at least four different detention facilities including the Abu Ghraib prison, provide the clearest view yet into war-zone interrogation rooms, where intelligence soldiers and other personnel have sometimes used lethal tactics to try to coax secrets from prisoners, including choking off detainees' airways. Other abusive strategies involve sitting on prisoners or bending them into uncomfortable positions, records show.

"Torture is the only thing you can call this," said a Pentagon source with knowledge of internal investigations into prisoner abuses. "There is a lot about our country's interrogation techniques that is very troubling. These are violations of military law."

http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_0002157003











And photographs never released inlude straight up rape and sexual assault:

At least one picture shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner while another is said to show a male translator raping a male detainee.

Further photographs are said to depict sexual assaults on prisoners with objects including a truncheon, wire and a phosphorescent tube.

Maj Gen Taguba, who retired in January 2007, said he supported the President’s decision, adding: “These pictures show torture, abuse, rape and every indecency.

“I am not sure what purpose their release would serve other than a legal one and the consequence would be to imperil our troops, the only protectors of our foreign policy, when we most need them, and British troops who are trying to build security in Afghanistan.

“The mere description of these pictures is horrendous enough, take my word for it.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -rape.html

I don't understand how you fucking morons can think Abu Ghraib was no big deal.



Pathetic, really.

[kalm]

I can't help it if the title of the thread is stupidly named. And for the record, I already realize the bad guys chop off heads and the like. I'm more interested in our reaction to it, the perserverance of justice, and maintaining the laws that seperate us from them.

You can't answer the question, can you? And SeattleGriz didn't "title the thread". The first sentence in the article compares it to Abu Ghraib.

My apolgies SeaGriz. I should have said stupid article title and comparison.

And yes, it was torture as defined by everyone's definition of the word except perhaps you and Dick Cheney.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Oh no!!!!

A terrorist fell down and scraped his knee! Oh the brutality!!!!!

Another fell in some mud and was praying to Allah for rain to wash it off! We are SAVAGES!!!!



Sorry but all you pussy's that whine and cry about this stuff make me sick. Personally I WANT the rest of the world to fear us THATS THE POINT!!!!!! If you dont want to be tortured then dont fu*k with the USA.

Its just too bad that the leaders in this country are fu*king cowards and dont fight to win. Our president should have to have prior military service to even get on the ballot.

[houndawg]

There are varying degrees of torture. For instance, the loud rock music played at Gitmo was a form of low grade torture. If instead, they had used the horrendously cheesy and hard on the ears mewlings of say a Celine Dione or Kings of Leon for hours on end, I would have been ashamed to be an American as no one deserves to be subjected that kind of abuse.

Not to mention we signed treaties agreeing what torture is and not to do it.

Call me crazy, but I kinda of like it when we're held to a higher standard.

I agree with the higher standard, but redefining torture for the benefit of the weak willed isn't the answer.

Regardless of what you call it or whether it is or isn't as bad as "the muslims", the fact is that it was done to many people rounded up in a hurry, many of whom were guilty of nothing.

[houndawg]

Oh no!!!!

A terrorist fell down and scraped his knee! Oh the brutality!!!!!

Another fell in some mud and was praying to Allah for rain to wash it off! We are SAVAGES!!!!



Sorry but all you pussy's that whine and cry about this stuff make me sick. Personally I WANT the rest of the world to fear us THATS THE POINT!!!!!! If you dont want to be tortured then dont fu*k with the USA.

Its just too bad that the leaders in this country are fu*king cowards and dont fight to win. Our president should have to have prior military service to even get on the ballot.

It's too bad that your parents didn't use a rubber. I'll bet your mom still says "I told you so" to your dad.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Trust me, many of us say the same thing about your kind.

Cowardly mentalities like yours are ruining this once proud and tough country. You wimps are turning us into France.

[houndawg]

Trust me, many of us say the same thing about your kind.

Cowardly mentalities like yours are ruining this once proud and tough country. You wimps are turning us into France.

Nah, it ain't me, Alvin, it's simpering milquetoasts like you and your cub scout den that are the problem.

[SeattleGriz]

And yes, it was torture as defined by everyone's definition of the word except perhaps you and Dick Cheney.

Just heard on the O'Reilly factor that their internal polling of the Scott Brown victory had a majority of people who backed what Scott Brown said. He was for waterboarding.

Thought it was interesting, since so many think we are above extreme interrogation techniques. Apparently the public wants what is needed to extract information.

[kalm]

And yes, it was torture as defined by everyone's definition of the word except perhaps you and Dick Cheney.

Just heard on the O'Reilly factor that their internal polling of the Scott Brown victory had a majority of people who backed what Scott Brown said. He was for waterboarding.

Thought it was interesting, since so many think we are above extreme interrogation techniques. Apparently the public wants what is needed to extract information.

The public is not always right.

[SeattleGriz]

Just heard on the O'Reilly factor that their internal polling of the Scott Brown victory had a majority of people who backed what Scott Brown said. He was for waterboarding.

Thought it was interesting, since so many think we are above extreme interrogation techniques. Apparently the public wants what is needed to extract information.

The public is not always right.

I most certainly agree with you on the public not always being correct, but I also would never ever question our military for doing a job I had no balls for. I went the weiney route and was medical, not combat arms in the Army Reserves.

[houndawg]

And yes, it was torture as defined by everyone's definition of the word except perhaps you and Dick Cheney.

Just heard on the O'Reilly factor that their internal polling of the Scott Brown victory had a majority of people who backed what Scott Brown said. He was for waterboarding.

Thought it was interesting, since so many think we are above extreme interrogation techniques. Apparently the public wants what is needed to extract information.

Torture doesn't work and that's a fact, not only a fact but a true fact. People will say whatever they think you want to hear to make it stop.

Nobody thinks we are above torture, we have a couple of centuries of evidence to the contrary. The point that so many of your crowd just can't grasp is that the real battle is for the hearts and minds of the civilians in the countries we invade. It's not about the troops, the troops are a tool for implementing foreign policy.

[AZGrizFan]

First
And photographs never released inlude straight up rape and sexual assault:

I don't understand how you fucking morons can think Abu Ghraib was no big deal.



Pathetic, really.

BIG difference between rape & sexual assault and TORTURE. BIG difference. Go ahead and look 'em up, we'll wait.

And NOONE said Abu Ghraib wasn't a big deal. Stop putting words in our mouths. Fucking Moron.

[SeattleGriz]

Just heard on the O'Reilly factor that their internal polling of the Scott Brown victory had a majority of people who backed what Scott Brown said. He was for waterboarding.

Thought it was interesting, since so many think we are above extreme interrogation techniques. Apparently the public wants what is needed to extract information.

Torture doesn't work and that's a fact, not only a fact but a true fact. People will say whatever they think you want to hear to make it stop.

Nobody thinks we are above torture, we have a couple of centuries of evidence to the contrary. The point that so many of your crowd just can't grasp is that the real battle is for the hearts and minds of the civilians in the countries we invade. It's not about the troops, the troops are a tool for implementing foreign policy.

How do we win the hearts and minds of those in Afghanistan and Iraq? Showing weakness as far as I understand is not the way.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Hearts and minds is "progressive"code for losing a war.

I prefer to fight against a country trying to win my heart and mind.......while I shoot at their hearts and minds.

[ASUMountaineer]

Trust me, many of us say the same thing about your kind.

Cowardly mentalities like yours are ruining this once proud and tough country. You wimps are turning us into France.

[houndawg]

Hearts and minds is "progressive"code for losing a war.

I prefer to fight against a country trying to win my heart and mind.......while I shoot at their hearts and minds.

So you'll be enlisting soon?

[houndawg]

Torture doesn't work and that's a fact, not only a fact but a true fact. People will say whatever they think you want to hear to make it stop.

Nobody thinks we are above torture, we have a couple of centuries of evidence to the contrary. The point that so many of your crowd just can't grasp is that the real battle is for the hearts and minds of the civilians in the countries we invade. It's not about the troops, the troops are a tool for implementing foreign policy.

How do we win the hearts and minds of those in Afghanistan and Iraq? Showing weakness as far as I understand is not the way.

Killing civilians isn't the way either.

[AZGrizFan]

Hearts and minds is "progressive"code for losing a war.

I prefer to fight against a country trying to win my heart and mind.......while I shoot at their hearts and minds.

So you'll be enlisting soon?

Alpha's been there. Done that.

[houndawg]

So you'll be enlisting soon?

Alpha's been there. Done that.

Sounds like he wants more, I say go get 'em.

[AZGrizFan]

Alpha's been there. Done that.

Sounds like he wants more, I say go get 'em.

[SeattleGriz]

How do we win the hearts and minds of those in Afghanistan and Iraq? Showing weakness as far as I understand is not the way.

Killing civilians isn't the way either.

That is a non answer. You know that we take every precaution to not inflict collateral damage.

[kalm]

Killing civilians isn't the way either.

That is a non answer. You know that we take every precaution to not inflict collateral damage.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Read Greg Mortenson's book "Three Cups of Tea" and you will see how to win hearts and minds.

I think you need both the killing of the bad guys and what Mortenson has done to achieve a lasting peace. But it's not only possible, it's been happening for almost a decade now. And the military is finally actually listening to Mortenson and embracing his ideas.

I would submit he has done as much to win the war on terror in Afghanistan and Pakistan as our net military efforts there.