Kudos to Obama's Nuclear Ambitions

[danefan]

So I thought this was an interesting


House Select Committee on Energy Independence Members:
Majority
Ed Markey, Massachusetts, Chairman
Earl Blumenauer, Oregon
Jay Inslee, Washington
John Larson, Connecticut
Stephanie Herseth Sandlin, South Dakota
Emanuel Cleaver, Missouri
John Hall, New York
John Salazar, Colorado
Jackie Speier, California

Minority
James Sensenbrenner, Wisconsin, Ranking Member
John Shadegg, Arizona
Candice Miller, Michigan
John Sullivan, Oklahoma
Marsha Blackburn, Tennessee
Shelley Moore Capito, West Virginia

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Guess who the guy on the far left of that harmony is at the No Nukes Concert at MSG?

[AZGrizFan]

Hey, I worked 30 years as a mechanical/nuclear engineer. I enjoy the stuff and I enjoy talking about it! It really bugs me that the public perception of nuclear power and waste is that they are unsafe and toxic. They are not. So I, as well as many of the guys I used to work with try to disseminate accurate information when the subject arises.
Sorry, just felt a little disappointed getting smacked for something I enjoy and am enthusiastic about.

[houndawg]

Rancho Leako was a boondoggle from the get go, glad to hear they finally got their act together from the days when an operator changing a light bulb in the control panel could cut off power to the ICS and throw things into a panic for half an hour while the water temp dropped precipitously........

Well, I don’t know that I would call it a boondoggle, but it certainly was a sad episode. The utility district was just in over it’s head. They should have just taken a 2-year shut down and completely replaced the entire ICS.

BTW, how is that new Toyota truck doing, you know, the one I helped pay for. Had any wild rides lately? Just kidding, just kidding!

The Toyota runs like a top, couldn't be happier, unless I could get it with a diesel like the rest of the planet can. Thank you so much for helping me get such a great deal, I appreciate it a whole lot more than those ingrate bankers, that's for sure.

Makes me feel like a big shot to get my tiny little snout into the trough and feed with the ruling class.

[houndawg]

Well, I don’t know that I would call it a boondoggle, but it certainly was a sad episode. The utility district was just in over it’s head. They should have just taken a 2-year shut down and completely replaced the entire ICS.

Bingo.

As I recall, they had recurring problems with the Westinghouse turbine design, which accounted for several of the unplanned outages. Not saying the ICS wasn't a serious problem, but from a safety standpoint, most of the Operations guys were do-or-die ex-Navy, who could have built a Saturn rocket with a hammer and a box of chiclets...not necessarily what the public or NRC wanted to hear, but I suspect that heavily influenced mgmt's decision to INCESSANTLY postpone ICS upgrades and/or replacement...why spend the $119m when ol' Mike and the boys can engineer a workaround: Ultimately Seco's downfall. I think it was pretty apparent the mega-class B&W reactors, though common, were the most problematic. Kinda hard to engineer a single turbine to handle that much energy...particularly since the designs were extrapolations from the 50's and 60's before modeling became a daily use tool. And like you suggest, the I&C team at B&W were probably carrying around slide rules until they retired.

The do-or-die ex-Navy operators that took half an hour to figure out which switch needed to be flipped?

[AZGrizFan]

Bingo.

As I recall, they had recurring problems with the Westinghouse turbine design, which accounted for several of the unplanned outages. Not saying the ICS wasn't a serious problem, but from a safety standpoint, most of the Operations guys were do-or-die ex-Navy, who could have built a Saturn rocket with a hammer and a box of chiclets...not necessarily what the public or NRC wanted to hear, but I suspect that heavily influenced mgmt's decision to INCESSANTLY postpone ICS upgrades and/or replacement...why spend the $119m when ol' Mike and the boys can engineer a workaround: Ultimately Seco's downfall. I think it was pretty apparent the mega-class B&W reactors, though common, were the most problematic. Kinda hard to engineer a single turbine to handle that much energy...particularly since the designs were extrapolations from the 50's and 60's before modeling became a daily use tool. And like you suggest, the I&C team at B&W were probably carrying around slide rules until they retired.

The do-or-die ex-Navy operators that took half an hour to figure out which switch needed to be flipped?

Try to stay out of the deep end of the pool, dawg, before you hurt yourself.

[houndawg]

The do-or-die ex-Navy operators that took half an hour to figure out which switch needed to be flipped?

Try to stay out of the deep end of the pool, dawg, before you hurt yourself.

I was living down the street when this was happening. So was Tman, but he was in grade school then.
SMUD's eleven-year operational clusterfcvk caused the public to lose confidence and vote to shut down Rancho Seco permanently in 1989. BTW, my stance on nuclear power has changed since those days. I believe it can now be produced and delivered safely enough to warrant expansion. The real solution, of course, is hanging up there in the sky and dropping more energy on the planet every second than the planets population can use in a year.

[AZGrizFan]

Try to stay out of the deep end of the pool, dawg, before you hurt yourself.

I was living down the street when this was happening. So was Tman, but he was in grade school then.
SMUD's eleven-year operational clusterfcvk caused the public to lose confidence and vote to shut down Rancho Seco permanently in 1989. BTW, my stance on nuclear power has changed since those days. I believe it can now be produced and delivered safely enough to warrant expansion. The real solution, of course, is hanging up there in the sky and dropping more energy on the planet every second than the planets population can use in a year.

I see. So now, "living down the street" makes you an expert on nuclear power.

[houndawg]

I was living down the street when this was happening. So was Tman, but he was in grade school then.
SMUD's eleven-year operational clusterfcvk caused the public to lose confidence and vote to shut down Rancho Seco permanently in 1989. BTW, my stance on nuclear power has changed since those days. I believe it can now be produced and delivered safely enough to warrant expansion. The real solution, of course, is hanging up there in the sky and dropping more energy on the planet every second than the planets population can use in a year.

I see. So now, "living down the street" makes you an expert on nuclear power.

Nope, you don't see, as usual. When you live near a disaster-waiting-to-happen like Rancho Seco it inspires you to take an interest and educate yourself. It's common knowledge that T'man's "do-or-die" ex-Navy operators repeatedly fcvked up by the numbers; coupled with B&W's poor design it was enough to generate 111,000 no votes from Sacramento's citizens on the referendum of keeping Rancho Seco open.

[AZGrizFan]

I see. So now, "living down the street" makes you an expert on nuclear power.

Nope, you don't see, as usual. When you live near a disaster-waiting-to-happen like Rancho Seco it inspires you to take an interest and educate yourself. It's common knowledge that T'man's "do-or-die" ex-Navy operators repeatedly fcvked up by the numbers; coupled with B&W's poor design it was enough to generate 111,000 no votes from Sacramento's citizens on the referendum of keeping Rancho Seco open.

T-Man's ex-Navy operators operate strictly by the Nuclear Regualtory Commission's rules and regulations. If they got to make their own decisions things would run a lot smoother. Your precious government screwed the pooch on the nuclear power industry, not the other way around. So you, as usual, are the one who does NOT see.

[native]

The do-or-die ex-Navy operators that took half an hour to figure out which switch needed to be flipped?

Try to stay out of the deep end of the pool, dawg, before you hurt yourself.

That dawg can't swim, can't hunt, can't even chase cars... just howls at the moon.

[houndawg]

Nope, you don't see, as usual. When you live near a disaster-waiting-to-happen like Rancho Seco it inspires you to take an interest and educate yourself. It's common knowledge that T'man's "do-or-die" ex-Navy operators repeatedly fcvked up by the numbers; coupled with B&W's poor design it was enough to generate 111,000 no votes from Sacramento's citizens on the referendum of keeping Rancho Seco open.

T-Man's ex-Navy operators operate strictly by the Nuclear Regualtory Commission's rules and regulations. If they got to make their own decisions things would run a lot smoother. Your precious government screwed the pooch on the nuclear power industry, not the other way around. So you, as usual, are the one who does NOT see.

NRC wasn't real happy with the way Rancho Seco was run, Z. Operator's choking, literally, while under pressure of yet another incident, operators needing 26 minutes to figure out that they needed flip a switch from "off" to "on" to restore power while the reactor vessel is cooling at a dangerous rate......it's a sad story, Z, whether the operators were Navy or not, and the NRC deserves just as much blame for accepting "further study" as the solution to B&W's many problems with reactors and operators. It's a matter of record.

[D1B]

Agreed - go nuke!

SMFH

[D1B]

T-Man's ex-Navy operators operate strictly by the Nuclear Regualtory Commission's rules and regulations. If they got to make their own decisions things would run a lot smoother. Your precious government screwed the pooch on the nuclear power industry, not the other way around. So you, as usual, are the one who does NOT see.

NRC wasn't real happy with the way Rancho Seco was run, Z. Operator's choking, literally, while under pressure of yet another incident, operators needing 26 minutes to figure out that they needed flip a switch from "off" to "on" to restore power while the reactor vessel is cooling at a dangerous rate......it's a sad story, Z, whether the operators were Navy or not, and the NRC deserves just as much blame for accepting "further study" as the solution to B&W's many problems with reactors and operators. It's a matter of record.

Z

Nice, woodsheddin Dawg! Game, set and match.

[AZGrizFan]

NRC wasn't real happy with the way Rancho Seco was run, Z. Operator's choking, literally, while under pressure of yet another incident, operators needing 26 minutes to figure out that they needed flip a switch from "off" to "on" to restore power while the reactor vessel is cooling at a dangerous rate......it's a sad story, Z, whether the operators were Navy or not, and the NRC deserves just as much blame for accepting "further study" as the solution to B&W's many problems with reactors and operators. It's a matter of record.

Z

Nice, woodsheddin Dawg! Game, set and match.

You've painted a dire picture of the Nuclear Regulatory Agency. A GOVERNMENT agency. YOUR know-all, benevolent government. The one YOU want running healthcare. I GUARANTEE YOU if it took 26 minutes to flip a switch its because the emergency procedures mandated by the NRC took that long to GET to the step where they flip that switch.

Brilliant. Just fucking brilliant.

I lived in Florida twice, that doesn't make me a fucking rocket scientist. But i WAS a Navy Nuke for 14 years, and the folks i worked with are some of the smartest fuckers on the planet, dawg. They're a fuck of a lot smarter than you...guaranteed.

And finally, I GUARANTEE that if the NRC "wasn't too happy about the way Rancho Seco was run", it was because they were playing the part of the typical government bureaucrat: COVERING THEIR ASSES.

[houndawg]

Z

Nice, woodsheddin Dawg! Game, set and match.

You've painted a dire picture of the Nuclear Regulatory Agency. A GOVERNMENT agency. YOUR know-all, benevolent government. The one YOU want running healthcare. I GUARANTEE YOU if it took 26 minutes to flip a switch its because the emergency procedures mandated by the NRC took that long to GET to the step where they flip that switch.

Brilliant. Just **** brilliant.

I lived in Florida twice, that doesn't make me a **** rocket scientist. But i WAS a Navy Nuke for 14 years, and the folks i worked with are some of the smartest **** on the planet, dawg. They're a **** of a lot smarter than you...guaranteed.

And finally, I GUARANTEE that if the NRC "wasn't too happy about the way Rancho Seco was run", it was because they were playing the part of the typical government bureaucrat: COVERING THEIR ASSES.

Sorry, but Rancho Seco was a textbook case of incompetent operation, regardless who ran the place, (and I'm just taking T'man's word that they are ex-Navy, you know how he gets when he's off his meds), and the public voted to show them the door because of their constant safety issues. Didn't mean to give you the vapors, Alice, I'm sure you're nuke buddies are all above average intelligence and good looking and instead of taking you to school once again by citing the depressing facts, I'll just leave it to you to google "rancho seco incidents" and invite you to read it and weep.

[D1B]

You've painted a dire picture of the Nuclear Regulatory Agency. A GOVERNMENT agency. YOUR know-all, benevolent government. The one YOU want running healthcare. I GUARANTEE YOU if it took 26 minutes to flip a switch its because the emergency procedures mandated by the NRC took that long to GET to the step where they flip that switch.

Brilliant. Just **** brilliant.

I lived in Florida twice, that doesn't make me a **** rocket scientist. But i WAS a Navy Nuke for 14 years, and the folks i worked with are some of the smartest **** on the planet, dawg. They're a **** of a lot smarter than you...guaranteed.

And finally, I GUARANTEE that if the NRC "wasn't too happy about the way Rancho Seco was run", it was because they were playing the part of the typical government bureaucrat: COVERING THEIR ASSES.

Sorry, but Rancho Seco was a textbook case of incompetent operation, regardless who ran the place, (and I'm just taking T'man's word that they are ex-Navy, you know how he gets when he's off his meds), and the public voted to show them the door because of their constant safety issues. Didn't mean to give you the vapors, Alice, I'm sure you're nuke buddies are all above average intelligence and good looking and instead of taking you to school once again by citing the depressing facts, I'll just leave it to you to google "rancho seco incidents" and invite you to read it and weep.

Z, just quit. You're getting your ass kicked, as usual. There's a big titties thread in the Sauna with your name on it. I suggest you go.

[AZGrizFan]

Sorry, but Rancho Seco was a textbook case of incompetent operation, regardless who ran the place, (and I'm just taking T'man's word that they are ex-Navy, you know how he gets when he's off his meds), and the public voted to show them the door because of their constant safety issues. Didn't mean to give you the vapors, Alice, I'm sure you're nuke buddies are all above average intelligence and good looking and instead of taking you to school once again by citing the depressing facts, I'll just leave it to you to google "rancho seco incidents" and invite you to read it and weep.

Z, just quit. You're getting your ass kicked, as usual. There's a big titties thread in the Sauna with your name on it. I suggest you go.

Thanks for the tip, numbnuts.

[AZGrizFan]

Sorry, but Rancho Seco was a textbook case of incompetent operation, regardless who ran the place, (and I'm just taking T'man's word that they are ex-Navy, you know how he gets when he's off his meds), and the public voted to show them the door because of their constant safety issues. Didn't mean to give you the vapors, Alice, I'm sure you're nuke buddies are all above average intelligence and good looking and instead of taking you to school once again by citing the depressing facts, I'll just leave it to you to google "rancho seco incidents" and invite you to read it and weep.

I took your advice, and googled EXACTLY that. Here's what I got:

http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/ ... o-seco.pdf

Which says this:

On December 26, 1985, power to the integrated control system (ICS) for Rancho Seco’s reactor was lost. As a result, all of the reactor’s controllers automatically went to mid-scale (e.g., the settings for the main feedwater valves went to 50 percent open). In the 26 minutes it took the operators to restore power
(by flipping a switch from “off” to “on”), the temperature of the reactor water dropped 180 degrees Fahrenheit—well in excess of the 100 degrees per hour limit.
In late February 1986, NRC staff informed the agency’s commissioners that this event was caused by design flaws and weaknesses that had long been known to both the owner (the Sacramento Municipal Utility District) and the NRC itself, due to a series of similar events at Rancho Seco dating back to March 1978. The problems had been studied many times over the intervening years, but never fixed until this outage prompted a resolution.

Go ahead. Keep focusing on the '26 minutes'. Typical donk, you'd rather shoot the messenger than admit the truth. Had you ever actually seen the inside of a nuclear power plant you'd realize that it's a TAD bit more complicated than "flipping a switch".

Oh, what am I thinking....I forgot that you are an expert because you "lived next to the plant".

[AZGrizFan]

Also found this:


http://www.nytimes.com/1988/06/06/busin ... wanted=all

But the valves were rusted open because they had not been lubricated since the plant opened. Operators cut off the water supply to the pumps. That led to a spill of 1,200 gallons of slightly radioactive water inside the plant and the release of a small amount of radioactive gas into the atmosphere.

The 1985 accident was Rancho Seco's fifth overcooling incident. The plant is also known for a mishap in 1978, set off when a worker dropped a light bulb behind an instrument panel in the control room. That caused a short circuit and a blackout in the control room, activating the emergency pumps.

''In the past at Rancho Seco,'' said Robert Pollard, the chief reactor expert of the Union of Concerned Scientists, ''one of the biggest problems was, in their short-term economic interest, they didn't do any of the routine maintenance and preventive maintenance. Basically, they operated on the theory if it ain't broke, don't fix it.''

Depends on whether that was a management directive or operators cookin' the maintenance books....looks like we may BOTH be somewhat right on this one...

[D1B]

Also found this:


http://www.nytimes.com/1988/06/06/busin ... wanted=all

But the valves were rusted open because they had not been lubricated since the plant opened. Operators cut off the water supply to the pumps. That led to a spill of 1,200 gallons of slightly radioactive water inside the plant and the release of a small amount of radioactive gas into the atmosphere.

The 1985 accident was Rancho Seco's fifth overcooling incident. The plant is also known for a mishap in 1978, set off when a worker dropped a light bulb behind an instrument panel in the control room. That caused a short circuit and a blackout in the control room, activating the emergency pumps.

''In the past at Rancho Seco,'' said Robert Pollard, the chief reactor expert of the Union of Concerned Scientists, ''one of the biggest problems was, in their short-term economic interest, they didn't do any of the routine maintenance and preventive maintenance. Basically, they operated on the theory if it ain't broke, don't fix it.''

Depends on whether that was a management directive or operators cookin' the maintenance books....looks like we may BOTH be somewhat right on this one...

Nice backpeddal Fuck Face!

[native]

...I WAS a Navy Nuke for 14 years, and the folks I worked with are some of the smartest **** on the planet, dawg. They're a **** of a lot smarter than you...guaranteed.

And finally, I GUARANTEE that if the NRC "wasn't too happy about the way Rancho Seco was run", it was because they were playing the part of the typical government bureaucrat: COVERING THEIR ASSES.

Amen, brotha!

More fat brains in the U.S. nuclear Navy than anywhere else on the planet!

[travelinman67]

T-Man's ex-Navy operators operate strictly by the Nuclear Regualtory Commission's rules and regulations. If they got to make their own decisions things would run a lot smoother. Your precious government screwed the pooch on the nuclear power industry, not the other way around. So you, as usual, are the one who does NOT see.

NRC wasn't real happy with the way Rancho Seco was run, Z. Operator's choking, literally, while under pressure of yet another incident, operators needing 26 minutes to figure out that they needed flip a switch from "off" to "on" to restore power while the reactor vessel is cooling at a dangerous rate......it's a sad story, Z, whether the operators were Navy or not, and the NRC deserves just as much blame for accepting "further study" as the solution to B&W's many problems with reactors and operators. It's a matter of record.

Sounds like you've been Googling too much.

Pretty obvious you know jack shit about nuclear power, B&W or Rancho Seco. One of my sisters was the Health Officer and her husband was the #2 Nuke Engineer (not Operator...and yes, he was ex-Navy as were all the nuclear engineers there).

The "26 minute" incident you cited was, as AZGriz observed, an occurrence precipitated by B&W's poor I&C design and the NRC operational guidelines for that system. The economic decisions to forego B&W's recommended in-service upgrades came from SMUD administrators, not the plant's. I know that for FACT as I recall having several discussions with my Bro' in law (who was a direct participant in the meetings) about those decisions.

As for your "experience"...

I'll wager you were one of Bob Mulholland's roving activist sheep running around pasting up the banners showing a mushroom cloud coming out of the cooling tower...one of the key propaganda methods he employed to sway public sentiment against Rancho Seco.

And, BTW, Mulholland, and Ed Smeloff (remember him?) are stilling running around the west coast giving speeches AGAINST nuclear energy.

Time to put the misinformation of the 70's behind, Pastypup, and start fixing the problems your generation created which are largely responsible for the economic cataclysm that will be left for the next several generations to suffer under.













I sure tire of continually putting the dawg out...

[houndawg]

Also found this:


http://www.nytimes.com/1988/06/06/busin ... wanted=all

But the valves were rusted open because they had not been lubricated since the plant opened. Operators cut off the water supply to the pumps. That led to a spill of 1,200 gallons of slightly radioactive water inside the plant and the release of a small amount of radioactive gas into the atmosphere.

The 1985 accident was Rancho Seco's fifth overcooling incident. The plant is also known for a mishap in 1978, set off when a worker dropped a light bulb behind an instrument panel in the control room. That caused a short circuit and a blackout in the control room, activating the emergency pumps.

''In the past at Rancho Seco,'' said Robert Pollard, the chief reactor expert of the Union of Concerned Scientists, ''one of the biggest problems was, in their short-term economic interest, they didn't do any of the routine maintenance and preventive maintenance. Basically, they operated on the theory if it ain't broke, don't fix it.''

Depends on whether that was a management directive or operators cookin' the maintenance books....looks like we may BOTH be somewhat right on this one...

A huge problem in either case, - hard to believe that somebody working at the plant, an experienced operator who knows what he is playing with, would sit still for having their life placed in jeopardy by a management directive.

[houndawg]

NRC wasn't real happy with the way Rancho Seco was run, Z. Operator's choking, literally, while under pressure of yet another incident, operators needing 26 minutes to figure out that they needed flip a switch from "off" to "on" to restore power while the reactor vessel is cooling at a dangerous rate......it's a sad story, Z, whether the operators were Navy or not, and the NRC deserves just as much blame for accepting "further study" as the solution to B&W's many problems with reactors and operators. It's a matter of record.

Sounds like you've been Googling too much.

Pretty obvious you know jack **** about nuclear power, B&W or Rancho Seco. One of my sisters was the Health Officer and her husband was the #2 Nuke Engineer (not Operator...and yes, he was ex-Navy as were all the nuclear engineers there).

The "26 minute" incident you cited was, as AZGriz observed, an occurrence precipitated by B&W's poor I&C design and the NRC operational guidelines for that system. The economic decisions to forego B&W's recommended in-service upgrades came from SMUD administrators, not the plant's. I know that for FACT as I recall having several discussions with my Bro' in law (who was a direct participant in the meetings) about those decisions.

As for your "experience"...

I'll wager you were one of Bob Mulholland's roving activist sheep running around pasting up the banners showing a mushroom cloud coming out of the cooling tower...one of the key propaganda methods he employed to sway public sentiment against Rancho Seco.

And, BTW, Mulholland, and Ed Smeloff (remember him?) are stilling running around the west coast giving speeches AGAINST nuclear energy.

Time to put the misinformation of the 70's behind, Pastypup, and start fixing the problems your generation created which are largely responsible for the economic cataclysm that will be left for the next several generations to suffer under.













I sure tire of continually putting the dawg out...

That's because you putting the dawg out is like Fred Flintstone putting Dino out at the end of every episode.

Wilma! Wilma! Let me in! Willllmaaaa!

EDIT: It is good to see that you finally, 35 odd years later, agree with all dem hippies and scientists that were saying that B&W's reactor and ICS were flawed designs. I'll bet that back at the time you were assuring everybody you could that it was safe as a bank vault.

[AZGrizFan]

Also found this:


http://www.nytimes.com/1988/06/06/busin ... wanted=all



Depends on whether that was a management directive or operators cookin' the maintenance books....looks like we may BOTH be somewhat right on this one...

Nice backpeddal Fuck Face!

Something you'll NEVER see an a-hole like you or houndawg do. EVEN when proven incorrect.