Obama's Export Plan

[AZGrizFan]

Shareholders have been doing pretty damn well since Obama took office. Up ~60% in the last year.

Are your mutual funds up 60%?

Didn't think so....

[travelinman67]

But that was back when only the US and Western Europe were industrialized, no?

True, and I guess this is what we get for allowing the rest of the world to industrialize and rely upon us to be the world's policeman.

Does free trade help anyone except multi-national corporations?

You got it...



...I think I'm gonna cry...

[kalm]

True, and I guess this is what we get for allowing the rest of the world to industrialize and rely upon us to be the world's policeman.

Does free trade help anyone except multi-national corporations?

You got it...



...I think I'm gonna cry...

I'm warnin' you dog, there's a mean conservative/streak in me that won't end.

Patrick Buchanon for President!

[BDKJMU]

True, and I guess this is what we get for allowing the rest of the world to industrialize and rely upon us to be the world's policeman.

Does free trade help anyone except multi-national corporations?

Not that I can tell.

Sure it does. It benefits the American consumer. Take away free trade, and see how much more you'll pay for stuff in stores.

[BDKJMU]

From what I've read, we are becoming more and more like a third world nation, exporting raw materials and letting someone else make the money and create jobs from manufacturing.

It's a totally different situation.

Third world nations were raped and forced out of their raw materials. They had and have no room to negotiate. When countries tried to nationalize their oil, fruit, or other raw material industries... the US and other developed countries had no qualms about installing a new government that would be more open to our dominance of their economy.

Having said that, relying on other countries does present problems... but, "becoming more and more like a third world nation" is ridiculous hyperbole.

Spare us the 3rd world "raped and forced out of their raw materials" hyperbole.

You mean like Venezuela? If you're going to have a dictator in office in some bannanna republic, better a pro American one than an anti American one.

[BDKJMU]

How does he reconcile his wish to increase exports with his support for big labor?

First, he will have to set things up so that US companies that move production offshore are heavily penalized. Some companies will continue to operate at lower revenue levels. However, smaller companies will cease doing business. The profit margin just isn't there.

Increasing exports means increasing domestic production. The problem here is twofold.

First, in order to increase domestic production, Obama is going to have to betray his union handlers. Who knows? Maybe he will. He already threw the fags and the Pinkers under the bus. Then again, they don't control the Democratic purse strings the way Big Labor does.

Second, companies will have to find niche markets for their products that the Chinese haven't already cornered. China has quite a head start on us in the consumer export business. We really haven't done it in a long time. Private enterprise always finds a way to make things like this work, but is there enough capital out there for companies to set up manufacturing in areas they abandoned long ago?

One last thought. Obama mentions enforcing intellectual property rights. This means China. Let me put this in clear, simple terms. This country will NEVER in our lifetimes squeeze China more than they will allow us to. We do not call the shots in this area. China does. They own our debt, and they can destroy us economically overnight, and the damage to their own economy would be recoveable within 5 years. For as country that thinks in terms of decades and centuries, this is a small matter. Any politician that talks tough on China is either ignorant or lying. Period.

I wish Obama luck, though. If he pursues this in a pragmatic sense instead of an ideological one, then he might be able to make a few improvements. Right now his administration is promising the moon, and I think that is a bad political move, unless they already have a "clerical strategy" for showing how they "created jobs."

Less than 10% of U.S. labor is unionized. Do you really think labor controls him more than big business?

Wrong. From this past Jan 22nd:
"In 2009, the union membership rate--the percent of wage and salary
workers who were members of a union--was 12.3 percent, essentially
unchanged from 12.4 percent a year earlier, the U.S. Bureau of Labor
Statistics reported today."
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BDKJMU]

Shareholders have been doing pretty damn well since Obama took office. Up ~60% in the last year.

Are your mutual funds up 60%?

Didn't think so....

Yeah, and when Obama entered office a little over a yr ago the Dow opened at 8,279. It closed yesterday at 10,624. That's a 28% increase. While very good, not even half of 60%, so lets quit with the 60% exxageration.

[Skjellyfetti]

Meant to say "a year ago" like I did in my original post and not since "Obama took office." My bad.

[BDKJMU]

Meant to say "a year ago" like I did in my original post and not since "Obama took office." My bad.

Yeah, after he took office it nosed dived and has since shot up maybe close to/around 60%. But all in all, up 28% since he entered office.

I'll make a prediction. If that turd of a health care bill passes it will plummett. If if doesn't, as soon as we know for sure it won't pass, it will shoot up.

[native]

Meant to say "a year ago" like I did in my original post and not since "Obama took office." My bad.

Yeah, after he took office it nosed dived and has since shot up maybe close to/around 60%. But all in all, up 28% since he entered office.

I'll make a prediction. If that turd of a health care bill passes it will plummett. If if doesn't, as soon as we know for sure it won't pass, it will shoot up.

True dat!

[Grizalltheway]

It's a totally different situation.

Third world nations were raped and forced out of their raw materials. They had and have no room to negotiate. When countries tried to nationalize their oil, fruit, or other raw material industries... the US and other developed countries had no qualms about installing a new government that would be more open to our dominance of their economy.

Having said that, relying on other countries does present problems... but, "becoming more and more like a third world nation" is ridiculous hyperbole.

Spare us the 3rd world "raped and forced out of their raw materials" hyperbole.

You mean like Venezuela? If you're going to have a dictator in office in some bannanna republic, better a pro American one than an anti American one.

Uh, that's not really hyperbole if we're talking about European colonialism.

[Skjellyfetti]

And not just colonialism. Read about United Fruit Company and the governments we toppled to make sure they maintained their economic dominance for modern examples. It's where the term "banana republic" that BDK uses comes from. Stephen Kinzer has writtern a couple great books on it.

[CID1990]

How does he reconcile his wish to increase exports with his support for big labor?

First, he will have to set things up so that US companies that move production offshore are heavily penalized. Some companies will continue to operate at lower revenue levels. However, smaller companies will cease doing business. The profit margin just isn't there.

Increasing exports means increasing domestic production. The problem here is twofold.

First, in order to increase domestic production, Obama is going to have to betray his union handlers. Who knows? Maybe he will. He already threw the fags and the Pinkers under the bus. Then again, they don't control the Democratic purse strings the way Big Labor does.

Second, companies will have to find niche markets for their products that the Chinese haven't already cornered. China has quite a head start on us in the consumer export business. We really haven't done it in a long time. Private enterprise always finds a way to make things like this work, but is there enough capital out there for companies to set up manufacturing in areas they abandoned long ago?

One last thought. Obama mentions enforcing intellectual property rights. This means China. Let me put this in clear, simple terms. This country will NEVER in our lifetimes squeeze China more than they will allow us to. We do not call the shots in this area. China does. They own our debt, and they can destroy us economically overnight, and the damage to their own economy would be recoveable within 5 years. For as country that thinks in terms of decades and centuries, this is a small matter. Any politician that talks tough on China is either ignorant or lying. Period.

I wish Obama luck, though. If he pursues this in a pragmatic sense instead of an ideological one, then he might be able to make a few improvements. Right now his administration is promising the moon, and I think that is a bad political move, unless they already have a "clerical strategy" for showing how they "created jobs."

Less than 10% of U.S. labor is unionized. Do you really think labor controls him more than big business?

In that 10% is contained almost all of our strategic heavy industry. We arent talking about McDonalds workers here, but nice try.

[travelinman67]

Less than 10% of U.S. labor is unionized. Do you really think labor controls him more than big business?

In that 10% is contained almost all of our strategic heavy industry. We arent talking about McDonalds workers here, but nice try.

Ditto and ditto.

I would add though that the anti-business regulatory tone that's developed around the U.S., is part-and-parcel the message peddled by MSM ("...business bad, green good...")and is embodied within most federal, state, regional and local govts., would need to be reversed before "heavy" industry could regain momentum. This issue is further hampered by "input" from folks who have NO EXPERIENCE developing business, industry or communities, yet who feel their "opinion" is consideration-worthy (...the ideologues), as well as politicians attempting to engineer social control.

More debilitating than most would understand.

[houndawg]

Less than 10% of U.S. labor is unionized. Do you really think labor controls him more than big business?

In that 10% is contained almost all of our strategic heavy industry. We arent talking about McDonalds workers here, but nice try.

The good news is that when the Chinese assume control of our economy they will undoubtedly run it better.

Everybody wants to blame the tiny fraction of US labor that is unionized but the simple fact is that the Chinese are better businessmen than we are for no other reason than their ability to think beyong the next quaterly P&L statement.

[travelinman67]

In that 10% is contained almost all of our strategic heavy industry. We arent talking about McDonalds workers here, but nice try.

The good news is that when the Chinese assume control of our economy they will undoubtedly run it better.

Everybody wants to blame the tiny fraction of US labor that is unionized but the simple fact is that the Chinese are better businessmen than we are for no other reason than their ability to outlaw unions.

Fixed

[kalm]

Not that I can tell.

Sure it does. It benefits the American consumer. Take away free trade, and see how much more you'll pay for stuff in stores.

Yet somehow the American Consumer was still able to afford products before free trade. We also made more stuff here. Meanwhile, China produces everything, still charges tariffs, and is rapidly growing its economy. I wonder if there's a correlation?

[kalm]

Less than 10% of U.S. labor is unionized. Do you really think labor controls him more than big business?

In that 10% is contained almost all of our strategic heavy industry. We arent talking about McDonalds workers here, but nice try.

Still, contributions from labor were relatively insignificant:

Agribusiness $2,265,258
Communications/Electronics $25,487,934
Construction $5,465,083
Defense $1,034,697
Energy & Natural Resources $2,782,904
Finance, Insurance & Real Estate $39,663,073
Health $19,507,812
Lawyers & Lobbyists $43,755,917
Transportation $1,672,242
Misc Business $37,006,524
Labor $534,711
Ideological/Single-Issue $23,521,118
Other $82,250,231

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/indus ... =n00009638" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I agree with much of your post, other than his allegiance to big labor. He'll throw them under the bus too.

[AZGrizFan]

I have to laugh at people comparing China's running of their economy to our running of ours.

If China's government had saddled private enterprise with the number of hoops and red tape that American companies have to jump through, China would still be struggling to get out of the stone age.

[AZGrizFan]

And not just colonialism. Read about United Fruit Company and the governments we toppled to make sure they maintained their economic dominance for modern examples. It's where the term "banana republic" that BDK uses comes from. Stephen Kinzer has writtern a couple great books on it.

Maybe if we just gave special deals to all American companies like Pelosi's husband got, there wouldn't be any problems.

[native]

In that 10% is contained almost all of our strategic heavy industry. We arent talking about McDonalds workers here, but nice try.

The good news is that when the Chinese assume control of our economy they will undoubtedly run it better.

Everybody wants to blame the tiny fraction of US labor that is unionized but the simple fact is that the Chinese are better businessmen than we are for no other reason than their ability to think beyong the next quaterly P&L statement.

In California it is the public sector employee unions which have destroyed the state.

[native]

Sure it does. It benefits the American consumer. Take away free trade, and see how much more you'll pay for stuff in stores.

Yet somehow the American Consumer was still able to afford products before free trade. We also made more stuff here. Meanwhile, China produces everything, still charges tariffs, and is rapidly growing its economy. I wonder if there's a correlation?

Good point about the Chinese charging unfair and inequitable tariffs, kalm, but the unions have done their part to destroy the economy, especially the public sector unions in California.

Bottom line in the case of China is that it's not free trade!

[houndawg]

It's a totally different situation.

Third world nations were raped and forced out of their raw materials. They had and have no room to negotiate. When countries tried to nationalize their oil, fruit, or other raw material industries... the US and other developed countries had no qualms about installing a new government that would be more open to our dominance of their economy.

Having said that, relying on other countries does present problems... but, "becoming more and more like a third world nation" is ridiculous hyperbole.

Spare us the 3rd world "raped and forced out of their raw materials" hyperbole.

You mean like Venezuela? If you're going to have a dictator in office in some bannanna republic, better a pro American one than an anti American one.

Well, well, well, better late than never I suppose.

For years I tried to tell that pin-head we had for Prez that it made a hell of a lot more sense to take Venezuela's oil than incur the astronomical debt it would cost to go halfway around the world. But he and his ilk, such as yourself, assured us that Iraqi oil would pay for both invasions.

Me and any six people from this very forum could have taken Venezuela in an afternoon armed with baseball bats. Anybody seen any of the eye-rackee oil that was going to pay for these quagmires?

[YoUDeeMan]

China has a few other advantages: they don't give a rat's ass about polls that show that Europeans or Americans don't like them; they have little use for intellectual property rights (or the costs that are involved in developing new ideas); they care little about global warming or environmental costs, they won't hesitate to take over an industry (hey, Obama might be on the same page with the Chinese!); safety protocalls...what are they?; balance their currency...not a chance...the list goes on.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35868432/ns ... ngton_post" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Obama...getting his ass kicked by reality one day at a time.

[YoUDeeMan]

Well, well, well, better late than never I suppose.

For years I tried to tell that pin-head we had for Prez that it made a hell of a lot more sense to take Venezuela's oil than incur the astronomical debt it would cost to go halfway around the world. But he and his ilk, such as yourself, assured us that Iraqi oil would pay for both invasions.

Me and any six people from this very forum could have taken Venezuela in an afternoon armed with baseball bats. Anybody seen any of the eye-rackee oil that was going to pay for these quagmires?

houndawg...suggesting invading another country?

Damn, you and kalm really are closet conservatives!