Glenn Beck.....it boggles my mind

[native]

Humor always wins. Ask Mr. Blue Pants.

I still don't feel like any of my assertions/examples of Glenn Beck's lack of substance being rebutted

Your assertions were successfully rebutted. Several times. You can't read either. Maybe we should go to a reading clinic together.

[youngterrier]

I still don't feel like any of my assertions/examples of Glenn Beck's lack of substance being rebutted

Your assertions were successfully rebutted. Several times. You can't read either. Maybe we should go to a reading clinic together.

BS van jones is the only argument with merit. as a matter of fact this thread was dying until vj was mentioned again

[soul man]

YT, is it time for us to talk about arguments on internet messageboards? BTW, good job holding your ground. Its hard to argue with someone whose arrogance allows them to claim that where someone fall on the political spectrum is a worse sin than helping the poor. While we label each other and debate endlessly, the poor still suffer and become a step closer to becoming the militant communistic mass so many fear.

Being labeled as someone who subverts the dominant order is a tradition in Christianity. Welcome to the club YT!

[Baldy]

YT, is it time for us to talk about arguments on internet messageboards? BTW, good job holding your ground. Its hard to argue with someone whose arrogance allows them to claim that where someone fall on the political spectrum is a worse sin than helping the poor. While we label each other and debate endlessly, the poor still suffer and become a step closer to becoming the militant communistic mass so many fear.

Being labeled as someone who subverts the dominant order is a tradition in Christianity. Welcome to the club YT!

I agree on several counts,dj, but many of the people who are the so-called "poor" are only poor because of their own choosing.

[houndawg]

YT, is it time for us to talk about arguments on internet messageboards? BTW, good job holding your ground. Its hard to argue with someone whose arrogance allows them to claim that where someone fall on the political spectrum is a worse sin than helping the poor. While we label each other and debate endlessly, the poor still suffer and become a step closer to becoming the militant communistic mass so many fear.

Being labeled as someone who subverts the dominant order is a tradition in Christianity. Welcome to the club YT!

Ah for the good old days of off the pigs and kneecapping industrialists......

[houndawg]

YT, is it time for us to talk about arguments on internet messageboards? BTW, good job holding your ground. Its hard to argue with someone whose arrogance allows them to claim that where someone fall on the political spectrum is a worse sin than helping the poor. While we label each other and debate endlessly, the poor still suffer and become a step closer to becoming the militant communistic mass so many fear.

Being labeled as someone who subverts the dominant order is a tradition in Christianity. Welcome to the club YT!

I agree on several counts,dj, but many of the people who are the so-called "poor" are only poor because of their own choosing.

A tiny fraction Baldy, and just a crutch you use to justify your stingy nature.

[native]

YT, is it time for us to talk about arguments on internet messageboards? BTW, good job holding your ground. Its hard to argue with someone whose arrogance allows them to claim that where someone fall on the political spectrum is a worse sin than helping the poor. While we label each other and debate endlessly, the poor still suffer and become a step closer to becoming the militant communistic mass so many fear.

Being labeled as someone who subverts the dominant order is a tradition in Christianity. Welcome to the club YT!

Spoken like a true fellow traveler! Yup. It's a label. You're right about that.

[soul man]

YT, is it time for us to talk about arguments on internet messageboards? BTW, good job holding your ground. Its hard to argue with someone whose arrogance allows them to claim that where someone fall on the political spectrum is a worse sin than helping the poor. While we label each other and debate endlessly, the poor still suffer and become a step closer to becoming the militant communistic mass so many fear.

Being labeled as someone who subverts the dominant order is a tradition in Christianity. Welcome to the club YT!

Spoken like a true fellow traveler! Yup. It's a label. You're right about that.

Whenever you want to discuss Christian history, I will be glad to tell you about how Christians have fought against the sins of excess, totalitarianism, selfishness, and the all-pervasive greed. The "label" comes from those who don't agree with Christian principles and whose salvation is found in their bank account or political affiliation.

[bench]

YT, is it time for us to talk about arguments on internet messageboards? BTW, good job holding your ground. Its hard to argue with someone whose arrogance allows them to claim that where someone fall on the political spectrum is a worse sin than helping the poor. While we label each other and debate endlessly, the poor still suffer and become a step closer to becoming the militant communistic mass so many fear.

Being labeled as someone who subverts the dominant order is a tradition in Christianity. Welcome to the club YT!

Spoken like a true fellow traveler! Yup. It's a label. You're right about that.

So now you're calling dungeonjoe a communist. Seriously. Dungeonjoe, of all people. Respected on both boards to the last man, and too thoroughly decent to give you the thrashing you deserve. A "fellow traveler," your chickenshit way of implying someone's a commie without coming right out and saying it. OK.

Here's a label for you, and a curse—you're a fucking McCarthyist dick, and I hope you choke on Glenn Beck's mildewy funktified nutsack. His teabag, if you will.

[youngterrier]

I believe we dont need to give the junior senator from wisconsin any kind of special attention. we can move on to more important things than him next week

Good night and good luck

(thats an allusion for those of you who cant figure that out)

[native]

Spoken like a true fellow traveler! Yup. It's a label. You're right about that.

So now you're calling dungeonjoe a communist. Seriously. Dungeonjoe, of all people. Respected on both boards to the last man, and too thoroughly decent to give you the thrashing you deserve. A "fellow traveler," your chickenshit way of implying someone's a commie without coming right out and saying it. OK.

Here's a label for you, and a curse—you're a **** McCarthyist dick, and I hope you choke on Glenn Beck's mildewy **** nutsack. His teabag, if you will.

Nope. Not a communist. A fellow traveler. Big difference. Seriously.

Do something useful, bench.

[native]

Spoken like a true fellow traveler! Yup. It's a label. You're right about that.

Whenever you want to discuss Christian history, I will be glad to tell you about how Christians have fought against the sins of excess, totalitarianism, selfishness, and the all-pervasive greed. The "label" comes from those who don't agree with Christian principles and whose salvation is found in their bank account or political affiliation.

We probably agree on all the good that Christians have accomplished over the millennia, but you are wrong about the reason for the label, soul man.

The label starts with serious misrepresentation of the Gospel. Jesus admonishes us to give our cloak to the needy man, not to steal your neighbor's cloak to assuage your own guilt. But you already know this.

You are not my judge. God almighty is my judge. Do what you want with your bank account, not mine.

And climb down from your moral high horse. Want to compare tens of thousands of dollars and hours contributed to others less fortunate? I have never been rich, but I have done my part. It is not your place to judge me. Nor is it my place to judge you unless you stick your hand in my pocket, so get your damm hand out of my pocket and go in peace.

[native]

...Good night and good luck...

[youngterrier]

Whenever you want to discuss Christian history, I will be glad to tell you about how Christians have fought against the sins of excess, totalitarianism, selfishness, and the all-pervasive greed. The "label" comes from those who don't agree with Christian principles and whose salvation is found in their bank account or political affiliation.

We probably agree on all the good that Christians have accomplished over the millennia, but you are wrong about the reason for the label, soul man.

The label starts with serious misrepresentation of the Gospel. Jesus admonishes us to give our cloak to the needy man, not to steal your neighbor's cloak to assuage your own guilt. But you already know this.

You are not my judge. God almighty is my judge. Do what you want with your bank account, not mine.

And climb down from your moral high horse. Want to compare tens of thousands of dollars and hours contributed to others less fortunate? I have never been rich, but I have done my part. It is not your place to judge me. Nor is it my place to judge you unless you stick your hand in my pocket, so get your damm hand out of my pocket and go in peace.

I didn't see any judgments....

[native]

Whenever you want to discuss Christian history, I will be glad to tell you about how Christians have fought against the sins of excess, totalitarianism, selfishness, and the all-pervasive greed. The "label" comes from those who don't agree with Christian principles and whose salvation is found in their bank account or political affiliation.

We probably agree on all the good that Christians have accomplished over the millennia, but you are wrong about the reason for the label, soul man.

The label starts with serious misrepresentation of the Gospel. Jesus admonishes us to give our cloak to the needy man, not to steal your neighbor's cloak to assuage your own guilt. But you already know this.

You are not my judge. God almighty is my judge. Do what you want with your bank account, not mine.

And climb down from your moral high horse. Want to compare tens of thousands of dollars and hours contributed to others less fortunate? I have never been rich, but I have done my part. It is not your place to judge me. Nor is it my place to judge you unless you stick your hand in my pocket, so get your damm hand out of my pocket and go in peace.

I didn't see any judgments....

The above bolded comment from soul man seemed pretty judgmental to me, YT. Did I misinterpret something?

[youngterrier]

but....

YT, is it time for us to talk about arguments on internet messageboards? BTW, good job holding your ground. Its hard to argue with someone whose arrogance allows them to claim that where someone fall on the political spectrum is a worse sin than helping the poor. While we label each other and debate endlessly, the poor still suffer and become a step closer to becoming the militant communistic mass so many fear.

Being labeled as someone who subverts the dominant order is a tradition in Christianity. Welcome to the club YT!

[native]

YT, is it time for us to talk about arguments on internet messageboards? BTW, good job holding your ground. Its hard to argue with someone whose arrogance allows them to claim that where someone fall on the political spectrum is a worse sin than helping the poor. While we label each other and debate endlessly, the poor still suffer and become a step closer to becoming the militant communistic mass so many fear.

Being labeled as someone who subverts the dominant order is a tradition in Christianity. Welcome to the club YT!

LABELS:

Mao labeled about 70 million or so as his enemies and killed them.
Stalin labeled perhaps 50 million as his enemies and killed them.
Hitler and Lenin tied at about 20 million each.
Pol Pot 2-3 million...
Ho Chi Minh 1-2 million...
And on and on...

The dominant order in the United States, grounded in the Constitution, has created more liberty and prosperity for the poorest of its citizens than any other nation in the history of mankind. The U.S. Constitution which guarantees liberty and property is not the problem! Nor is the Gospel the problem.

The problem lies in:

Those who pervert the Gospel from a faith of personal salvation grounded in Scripture to a faith of envy and material slavery grounded in man

Those who have never produced goods, services or jobs telling those who have done so how to do it

Those who have never produced goods, services or jobs teaching the poor to steal from their neighbor for their daily sustenance instead of teaching them to fish

Those who have never produced goods, services or jobs stealing from those who do so instead of getting off their lazy arses and creating goods, services and jobs

Those who have never produced goods, services or jobs using any means necessary to transform our nation into a communist state despite the ruin it will ultimately cause to the very poor they purport to care about

Greed is evil, soul man, but not as evil as envy, and not as evil as lying.

[native]

but....

YT, is it time for us to talk about arguments on internet messageboards? BTW, good job holding your ground. Its hard to argue with someone whose arrogance allows them to claim that where someone fall on the political spectrum is a worse sin than helping the poor. While we label each other and debate endlessly, the poor still suffer and become a step closer to becoming the militant communistic mass so many fear.

Being labeled as someone who subverts the dominant order is a tradition in Christianity. Welcome to the club YT!

I do not begrudge your disappointment in the dominant order, YT. In fact I admire your idealism and perseverance. But change for the sake of change is not necessarily a good thing, especially when the change leaders such as Obama and Van Jones are leading the change in the worst possible direction for human beings. I am honestly horrified at your lack of understanding of the very real consequences of communism and lack of ability to connect the dots.

[youngterrier]

but....

I do not begrudge your disappointment in the dominant order, YT. In fact I admire your idealism and perseverance. But change for the sake of change is not necessarily a good thing, especially when the change leaders such as Obama and Van Jones are leading the change in the worst possible direction for human beings. I am honestly horrified at your lack of understanding of the very real consequences of communism and lack of ability to connect the dots.

OK YOU ARE OFFICIALLY CRAZY IF YOU THINK I SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT'S ECONOMIC GOALS AND DON'T UNDERSTAND THE CONSEQUENCES OF COMMUNISM


again you think just because I'm younger than you that I am more ignorant because I disagree with you
...and Van Jones isn't a leader, hence your paranoia

edit: nice sig

[native]

I do not begrudge your disappointment in the dominant order, YT. In fact I admire your idealism and perseverance. But change for the sake of change is not necessarily a good thing, especially when the change leaders such as Obama and Van Jones are leading the change in the worst possible direction for human beings. I am honestly horrified at your lack of understanding of the very real consequences of communism and lack of ability to connect the dots.

OK YOU ARE OFFICIALLY CRAZY IF YOU THINK I SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT'S ECONOMIC GOALS AND DON'T UNDERSTAND THE CONSEQUENCES OF COMMUNISM


again you think just because I'm younger than you that I am more ignorant because I disagree with you
...and Van Jones isn't a leader, hence your paranoia

I don't hate you because you disagree with me YT.

You think I am crazy and I think you are an ignorant young whippersnapper. Fair enough.

Actually I do not think you are ignorant. Just for the record, if you are between 15 and 30, you are no more politically over-exuberant, irresponsible, or ignorant than I was at your age. In fact, much less so. For example, YT, I didn't know a damm thing about the Austrian School when I was your age and I could not have carried on the extremely vigorous debate you carried on with me on this thread.

Also for the record, I do not think you are a communist.

[native]

...Whenever you want to discuss Christian history, I will be glad to tell you about how Christians have fought against the sins of excess, totalitarianism, selfishness, and the all-pervasive greed. The "label" comes from those who don't agree with Christian principles and whose salvation is found in their bank account or political affiliation.

Bring it on, soul man!

But beware - I am likely to agree with you.

[native]

...Its hard to argue with someone whose arrogance allows them to claim that where someone fall on the political spectrum is a worse sin than helping the poor. While we label each other and debate endlessly, the poor still suffer and become a step closer to becoming the militant communistic mass so many fear.

Being labeled as someone who subverts the dominant order is a tradition in Christianity. Welcome to the club YT!

It's even harder to justify any type of support for communist solutions or adherents,if you dare to count the bodies left by the communists in the past 90 years, and study their methods developed in the last 50 years to infiltrate and bring down free societies, which might well include some short term material gains with which you appear to be enamored, but are no less likely to cause the immense misery of the past.

Being a subversive for the sake of subversion is BS, soul man. Being a subversive for the sake of communist solutions is even worse. Cloaking the subversion in the Gospel is despicable.

[soul man]

Whenever you want to discuss Christian history, I will be glad to tell you about how Christians have fought against the sins of excess, totalitarianism, selfishness, and the all-pervasive greed. The "label" comes from those who don't agree with Christian principles and whose salvation is found in their bank account or political affiliation.

We probably agree on all the good that Christians have accomplished over the millennia, but you are wrong about the reason for the label, soul man.

The label starts with serious misrepresentation of the Gospel. Jesus admonishes us to give our cloak to the needy man, not to steal your neighbor's cloak to assuage your own guilt. But you already know this.

You are not my judge. God almighty is my judge. Do what you want with your bank account, not mine.

And climb down from your moral high horse. Want to compare tens of thousands of dollars and hours contributed to others less fortunate? I have never been rich, but I have done my part. It is not your place to judge me. Nor is it my place to judge you unless you stick your hand in my pocket, so get your damm hand out of my pocket and go in peace.

Wow, where to start.
You are right, I am not your judge, and neither are you are mine. You accuse me of judging you, but isn't the term "fellow-traveler" a term of judgment? Extend to me the standard you want me to extend to you; you attack/misrepresent/belittle the work I do and that of other pastors who lead congregations to consider life beyond their walls of comfort. From this point onward, I hope we can move past pettiness and name calling. I certainly will try---or simply do what I did earlier--- quit having serious discussions on message boards.

"A serious misrepresentation of the Gospel." I think you and I have different interpretations of the Gospel certainly. I understand The Gospel as the good news of Jesus Christ and His offer of salvation to all. You seem to think it is for me a document for the forced redistribution of wealth. It is not. I do see people in this world who are poor out of choice, I see hustlers and con men; but those are statistically few compared to the children I see born in poverty (in the county where I live, not even overseas). That doesn't count for the people the church I serve gave fuel oil to, or the hundreds of bags of groceries given to people because their assistance checks did not go far enough. Professionally, I don't care of its the church which improves the lot of the poor or the government. Just, please get it done. The poor are among us.

But so are the rich; wresting money from them will not solve the problem...I don't even think that is the solution of the Gospel---that forced redistribution. No, I think our society should take its cue from Christ who favored the poor, powerless, and victimized with his life, healings and miracles. I think the mark of greatness of a civilization or society is how it treats the "least of these," as Christ would say. He spoke more of the evils of money than on homosexuality. The evils of the love of money, I should say. After all as Christ said it would be easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle that a rich man to get into heaven. Why? Because money is more important---it becomes an idol. Remember, by the world's standards most of us in this country are rich. Selfishness is a sin. Not only in the afterlife, but here and now. It pollutes the soul and ruins our nation. When we give up our selfish ways we find joy. We begin to see people as people and not our enemies

Mr. Beck sees the work of pastors who are seeking to relieve the suffering of the poor as some extension of a communist agenda. What has been interesting has been the wholesale condemnation of Mr. Beck's comments by religious people from all experiences what some would call left and right. Mr. Beck appears to be one in a long line of people looking for an audience and an advertising dollar. He got that this week.



Peace, Brother.

[soul man]

YT, is it time for us to talk about arguments on internet messageboards? BTW, good job holding your ground. Its hard to argue with someone whose arrogance allows them to claim that where someone fall on the political spectrum is a worse sin than helping the poor. While we label each other and debate endlessly, the poor still suffer and become a step closer to becoming the militant communistic mass so many fear.

Being labeled as someone who subverts the dominant order is a tradition in Christianity. Welcome to the club YT!

LABELS:

Mao labeled about 70 million or so as his enemies and killed them.
Stalin labeled perhaps 50 million as his enemies and killed them.
Hitler and Lenin tied at about 20 million each.
Pol Pot 2-3 million...
Ho Chi Minh 1-2 million...
And on and on...

The dominant order in the United States, grounded in the Constitution, has created more liberty and prosperity for the poorest of its citizens than any other nation in the history of mankind. The U.S. Constitution which guarantees liberty and property is not the problem! Nor is the Gospel the problem.

The problem lies in:

Those who pervert the Gospel from a faith of personal salvation grounded in Scripture to a faith of envy and material slavery grounded in man

Those who have never produced goods, services or jobs telling those who have done so how to do it

Those who have never produced goods, services or jobs teaching the poor to steal from their neighbor for their daily sustenance instead of teaching them to fish

Those who have never produced goods, services or jobs stealing from those who do so instead o getting off their lazy arses and creating goods, services and jobs

Those who have never produced goods, services or jobs using any means necessary to transform our nation into a communist state despite the ruin it will ultimately cause to the very poor they purport to care about

Greed is evil, soul man, but not as evil as envy, and not as evil as lying.

Would you please explain the bold-printed section above? I don't understand what that means as it is written. Thank you.

BTW, evil is evil-- sin is sin. I am not much for the hierarchy of sin. Some day, please PM me your take on the anger/attitude of the older brother in the parable of the prodigal son. Thanks.

[kalm]

I would like to think Jesus was more concerned with actually feeding the hungry than with the tax rate and/or tithe required to do so.