Congress followed the People's Mandate

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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by Biff »

GannonFan wrote:
And that's the crux of the matter. I don't think people are seriously against better taking care of 32M people who don't have health insurance or cutting out the more agregious health care insurance practices. But the main problem is, now that we spend all this money doing this, and assuming this is all that we're going to spend doing this (which is unlikely as these things are typically much more expensive than initially proposed) how do we afford to fix everything else that is begging for money in America. We've basically shot our load with this reform and now we have nothing for anything else. What happens when states go broke in the next few years, what happens when the economy trickles along for several years without significant job growth, what happens when public pensions come due and are woefully underfunded? A country has never taxed itself into prosperity, but it looks like we may try doing that.
I am. This is the problem with everything. I shouldn't have to help someone else. Yes, my religion calls for helping thy neighbor, but just sending money out to help some that aren't willing to work hard enough to do it for themselves is a freaking issue. If I am going to pay for someone else health care, smoking needs to be banned, as well as drinking alcohol or anything else someone can choose to do that is unhealthy. OR, stop all risky activities that can result in injury to include mountain climbing, racing, skydiving, even football, etc. I shouldn't have to pay for someone who is doing something by choice that would require health care.

This is why I don't want this crap. I want to eat my fried foods, drink all the Fing beer I want, and play all the sports I want, even though all three are going to result in a bad heart or potential for spained/broken ankles, knees, etc. basically resulting in a need for health. If I was to be one that puts that tax on my "neighbors" then I chose to be by actions that could prevented.
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by travelinman67 »

GannonFan wrote:But the main problem is, now that we spend all this money doing this, and assuming this is all that we're going to spend doing this (which is unlikely as these things are typically much more expensive than initially proposed) how do we afford to fix everything else that is begging for money in America. We've basically shot our load with this reform and now we have nothing for anything else. What happens when states go broke in the next few years, what happens when the economy trickles along for several years without significant job growth, what happens when public pensions come due and are woefully underfunded? A country has never taxed itself into prosperity, but it looks like we may try doing that.
Bingo!

The problem is not with healthcare. Healthcare deficiencies exist because of a broken economy.

Fix the GDP and rebuild a robust economy, and the natural market mechanisms will kick back in to correct the deficiencies. Congress has been passing legislation the past 40 years to create defacto monopolisation within the healthcare market. The healthcare industry is to blame to the degree they sought (codified) anti-trust exemption and market barriers, yet fought govt. market intervention (regulation).

Once again, kiddies, it's about GDP. It's about jobs.

Wake up.
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by dbackjon »

So healthcare had no problems when the economy was great?
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by ASUMountaineer »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
GSUAlumniEagle wrote: But this is one issue that was so muddled up by the media that no one has the facts right -- so to think that I should give a damn about the opinion of someone who doesn't know what the hell they're talking about is a little absurd.
I agree with this completely.

I'll also add that a lot of the blame has to fall on the Obama administration. They completely bungled it when they rolled out their plans last Summer and lost the message to the Republicans who began their scare tactics of DEATH PANELS!!! and such.
This is spot on. The Republicans used their scare tactics because that's all they had, but they knew it would be helpful. However, I think there's reason to be somewhat scared by the legislation, but it's not about death panels. :lol:

Obama should have never given Congress the responsibility of writing the health insurance reform legislation...that was his first mistake.
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by travelinman67 »

dbackjon wrote:So healthcare had no problems when the economy was great?
Nice try, Socrates.

Coverage declines as unemployment increases. Competition increases as coverage increases.

Get a clue.

There will always be a need for "welfare" and "medicare". But those should be for the "exceptions", not the "whole".

Of course, applying the Dback Socratic method, a robust economy won't benefit America, right?
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by GannonFan »

dbackjon wrote:So healthcare had no problems when the economy was great?
Of course it did, and will still have many of those same problems when this bill is signed into law. Primary care doctors are in short demand because there's no money there. We have an aging population that is hooked on using every aspect of the health care industry they can get their hands on. These problems aren't going to go away and if anything they'll become more pronounced after this bill goes into effect. All we've done is to formalize medical treatment of those who had to go to ER's to get it before, and we've committed at least a trillion dollars over 10 years to do it. That's a trillion dollars that won't go to whatever else it could've gone to and plenty of unfunded federal and state mandates and programs still sitting there waiting for funding. Deciding to spend what we don't have is the easy part - dealing with this in the future is where it gets difficult.
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by ASUMountaineer »

dbackjon wrote:So healthcare had no problems when the economy was great?
The receipt of health care will probably always have issues, and people will always hate insurance companies. What's clear, is this health insurance (not health care) reform shows Washington doesn't hate insurance companies. They're going to require people to patronize health insurance companies, or be fined.
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by youngterrier »

the problem I have is that this bill commands us to buy a service (pleasantly fascist to say the least) and expands programs that we already have a hard time paying for. top that with the fact that they didn't even try to allow insurance companies to sell across state borders
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by travelinman67 »

ASUMountaineer wrote:
dbackjon wrote:So healthcare had no problems when the economy was great?
The receipt of health care will probably always have issues, and people will always hate insurance companies. What's clear, is this health insurance (not health care) reform shows Washington doesn't hate insurance companies. They're going to require people to patronize health insurance companies, or be fined.
Welcome to California.

Been living under that system for auto insurance for over a decade...

...the state has an office and call center in Thousand Oaks that employs 1,700 +/-...

...linked with the insurers...

...who notify them of lapses in coverage...

...so the state can immediately suspend the vehicle registration...

...which triggers a fine and fee to reinstate registration...

...after paying a penalty to the insurer to reinstate coverage...

...from insurers who have to be licensed by the state...

...and pay a percentage of net to the beholden.



On the east coast, it's called "pizzo".

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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by OL FU »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
OL FU wrote: Did he run supporting mandates? I thought he opposed them while Hilary supported them. Just asking.
I knew OL FU would be up to the challenge. :D
BTW Thanks :nod: I think :? :lol:
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by native »

dbackjon wrote:In 2008, the VOTERS overwhelming elected Democrats to the House, Senater and Presidency.

A major hallmark of the election was health care reform.


Despite the greatest efforts of the radical right to subvert the will of the people, the people prevailed.



A great day for Democracy - the people have spoken!
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by dbackjon »

Why do you laugh at Democracy?
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by native »

Biff wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
And that's the crux of the matter. I don't think people are seriously against better taking care of 32M people who don't have health insurance or cutting out the more agregious health care insurance practices. But the main problem is, now that we spend all this money doing this, and assuming this is all that we're going to spend doing this (which is unlikely as these things are typically much more expensive than initially proposed) how do we afford to fix everything else that is begging for money in America. We've basically shot our load with this reform and now we have nothing for anything else. What happens when states go broke in the next few years, what happens when the economy trickles along for several years without significant job growth, what happens when public pensions come due and are woefully underfunded? A country has never taxed itself into prosperity, but it looks like we may try doing that.
I am. This is the problem with everything. I shouldn't have to help someone else. Yes, my religion calls for helping thy neighbor, but just sending money out to help some that aren't willing to work hard enough to do it for themselves is a freaking issue. If I am going to pay for someone else health care, smoking needs to be banned, as well as drinking alcohol or anything else someone can choose to do that is unhealthy. OR, stop all risky activities that can result in injury to include mountain climbing, racing, skydiving, even football, etc. I shouldn't have to pay for someone who is doing something by choice that would require health care.

This is why I don't want this crap. I want to eat my fried foods, drink all the Fing beer I want, and play all the sports I want, even though all three are going to result in a bad heart or potential for spained/broken ankles, knees, etc. basically resulting in a need for health. If I was to be one that puts that tax on my "neighbors" then I chose to be by actions that could prevented.
But biff, "we're all in this together....."
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by native »

dbackjon wrote:Why do you laugh at Democracy?
I am not laughing at "democracy," jon. :kisswink:

And since I am probably not laughing with you, I must be laughing... :roll: :coffee:
Last edited by native on Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by AZGrizFan »

dbackjon wrote:Why do you laugh at Democracy?

Why do you ask such stupid questions?
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by AZGrizFan »

I can get unemployment, welfare, food stamps, government subsidized housing and now healthcare if I'm unemployed.

There is now, finally absolutely NO incentive to EVER find a job.
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by dbackjon »

AZGrizFan wrote:
dbackjon wrote:Why do you laugh at Democracy?

Why do you ask such stupid questions?
Perfect response to a stupid post by native...
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by dbackjon »

AZGrizFan wrote:I can get unemployment, welfare, food stamps, government subsidized housing and now healthcare if I'm unemployed.

There is now, finally absolutely NO incentive to EVER find a job.
If all you are concerned about is surviving, then yup.

Although there is limits to welfare, unemployment, etc.

The unemployed already had some health care - Medicaid...
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by native »

dbackjon wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:

Why do you ask such stupid questions?
Perfect response to a stupid post by native...
:kisswink: :kisswink: :kisswink: :lol:
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by dbackjon »

native wrote:
dbackjon wrote:
Perfect response to a stupid post by native...
:kisswink: :kisswink: :kisswink: :lol:

:nod: :nod: :nod: :kisswink: :kisswink:
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by AZGrizFan »

dbackjon wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:I can get unemployment, welfare, food stamps, government subsidized housing and now healthcare if I'm unemployed.

There is now, finally absolutely NO incentive to EVER find a job.
If all you are concerned about is surviving, then yup.

Although there is limits to welfare, unemployment, etc.

The unemployed already had some health care - Medicaid...
Those who are concerned about "surviving" make their money illegally anyways, Jon. They've just got the welfare state of America to support them so they don't have to spend any of their hard-earned money on the "essentials". Good ol-Nanny State's got 'em covered.

And BS on the welfare limits. We're on 3rd & 4th generation welfare families now.
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by SuperHornet »

This isn't democracy. This is a Communist dictatorship. An eleven-state lawsuit is in the works to stop this tr@sh on the grounds that the mando provision is unconstitutional, which it is.
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by dbackjon »

SuperHornet wrote:This isn't democracy. This is a Communist dictatorship. An eleven-state lawsuit is in the works to stop this tr@sh on the grounds that the mando provision is unconstitutional, which it is.
Please use your Lynchburg Baptist education to explain how democraticly elected representives, freely voting this in = Communist dictatorship.
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by ASUMountaineer »

travelinman67 wrote:
ASUMountaineer wrote:
The receipt of health care will probably always have issues, and people will always hate insurance companies. What's clear, is this health insurance (not health care) reform shows Washington doesn't hate insurance companies. They're going to require people to patronize health insurance companies, or be fined.
Welcome to California.

Been living under that system for auto insurance for over a decade...

...the state has an office and call center in Thousand Oaks that employs 1,700 +/-...

...linked with the insurers...

...who notify them of lapses in coverage...

...so the state can immediately suspend the vehicle registration...

...which triggers a fine and fee to reinstate registration...

...after paying a penalty to the insurer to reinstate coverage...

...from insurers who have to be licensed by the state...

...and pay a percentage of net to the beholden.



On the east coast, it's called "pizzo".

:coffee:
Most states have that for autos. However, if I don't want to pay, at least I can choose not to buy a car. However, under this plan, I breathe, therefore I must purchase health insurance (not health care).
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Re: Congress followed the People's Mandate

Post by Skjellyfetti »

ASUMountaineer wrote:
Most states have that for autos. However, if I don't want to pay, at least I can choose not to buy a car. However, under this plan, I breathe, therefore I must purchase health insurance (not health care).
Well, there are exemptions. But, you're point is still accurate.
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