Tonight I'm Embarrassed at our Government...

[HI54UNI]

Don't know if they can or cannot afford it.

We owe over $12 trillion. If we want national health care, we need to start cutting elsewhere and getting our debt under control first.

This isn't about whether health care is desireable. It's that we cannot afford it right now.

Yup. And health care is a good start. Will reduce deficit by 1.2 trillion over the next 20 years according to the CBO.

I haven't heard a good reason to ignore or dismiss CBO estimates... so, if you have one... I'm all ears.

Massachusetts estimated that their healthcare program would cost less. They were wrong.

The CBO estimates are also based on a bunch of assumptions. That X amount of waste will be eliminated, y amount of taxes will be collected, etc. We all know that it's not going to happen.

[Skjellyfetti]

Massachusetts estimated that their healthcare program would cost less. They were wrong.

The CBO estimates are also based on a bunch of assumptions. That X amount of waste will be eliminated, y amount of taxes will be collected, etc. We all know that it's not going to happen.

What organization or service in Massachusetts estimated it?

And, if you have better estimates from a nonpartisan source on the health care bill I'd be happy to check it out.

[UCABEAR]

With all this new debt, I bet all it would take is one more nicely placed terrorist attack to totally destroy the American economy...heck, we're still suffering from the effects of the last one! Hope nothing like 911 happens again...I'd hate to imagine the foreign interests looking to collect what is left of it!

[Chizzang]

With all this new debt, I bet all it would take is one more nicely placed terrorist attack to totally destroy the American economy...heck, we're still suffering from the effects of the last one! Hope nothing like 911 happens again...I'd hate to imagine the foreign interests looking to collect what is left of it!

True...
Especially if we then use the terror attack to fabricate an enemy / concoct a war - and then spend 10 billion a month for no less than 7 years trying to figure out why were there and how to get out...

Pure Genius... we've played a HUGE part in our own misery

[native]

Massachusetts estimated that their healthcare program would cost less. They were wrong.

The CBO estimates are also based on a bunch of assumptions. That X amount of waste will be eliminated, y amount of taxes will be collected, etc. We all know that it's not going to happen.

What organization or service in Massachusetts estimated it?

And, if you have better estimates from a nonpartisan source on the health care bill I'd be happy to check it out.

The CBO is as honest a broker as you will find, but they are only allowed to crunch numbers for the parameters given them, no matter how absurd and dishonest.


But you already know that the Dem parameters are absurd, skelly.

[slycat]

Our country was fucked long before this by both parties.

[houndawg]

Our country was **** long before this by both parties.

Amen. There's no doubt which side is losing the class war.

[travelinman67]

Everybody know what Bush stand for..........

Yes. It's called moral integrity, aka a spinal column.


You libs should try getting one.

[native]

Our country was **** long before this by both parties.

Amen. There's no doubt which side is losing the class war.

In the long run, there is no doubt that the working middle class gets screwed the most when the Dems win any policy victoiry.

[JMU DJ]

Everybody know what Bush stand for..........

Yes. It's called moral integrity, aka a spinal column.


You libs should try getting one.

I thought he stood for the constitution, right?






"Bush isn't a bad guy, he left me these nice rolling papers in the Resolute desk."

[BDKJMU]

Don't know if they can or cannot afford it.

We owe over $12 trillion. If we want national health care, we need to start cutting elsewhere and getting our debt under control first.

This isn't about whether health care is desireable. It's that we cannot afford it right now.

If we reduced our demand for mid-east oil we wouldn't need nearly as vast of a defense budget.

I agree- too bad the enviro wackos keep blocking new offshore oil drilling, drilling in ANWR, more coal (we are the Saudi Arabia of coal), more nuclear, etc.

[BDKJMU]

What this government did is just really unbelievable. I'm not sure on either side on this issue but I am sure of this dawg ank skelly...you guys are not at all concerned that this was done against the wishes of the populace and since it goes along with what you have been advocating you are not only fine with it but gleeful over it.

This was done at a time when we are pretty short on cash and so deeply in debt that it ain't funny and the democrats did not do a good job of selling this before forcing the country to pay for it.

This was a huge mistake and I am pretty sure that going against the wishes of so many is gonna kill em'.

IT WASN'T DONE AGAINST THE WISHES OF THE POPULACE.

The populace gets to express their will by voting.

Obama and Democrats have not hidden their will to reform health care.

The Democratic primaries and general election bored the **** out of me with the hours and hours of rambling all the candidates did about health care reform.

Healthcare reform was a cornerstone of Obama's campaign. The American public elected him. Obama and the Democrats enact the policies they ran on. It's not against the wishes of the populace.

The populace wanted health care reform. They didn't want this 2700 page turd. The polls clearly showed that, and the donks will pay dearly in Nov.

[BDKJMU]

Oh stop it with the fiscal responsibility act. We can't afford two quagmires halfway around the planet either, but we manage to keep shoveling money at them for going-on-a-decade now.

The difference is, those can STOP. This is forever.

Actually AZ, fortunately its not. As soon as the Republicans get control of both Houses and thw White House in 2012 this gets overturned in 2013.

[BDKJMU]

You have to love the Pubs that shed a tear over the most corrupt entity in human existence. The health insurance companies will only make millions instead of billions now. And 32 million people with the BS term of "prior conditions" will actually be allowed to be treated now. Rednecks are in the streets even though they don't make enough money to get pissed.

And if one of these people with a prior condition costs 100k a year to treat, and the insureance company can't dump him and can only charge him a fraction of that in premiums, where's the rest of the $ going to come from? Thats right, the rest of us are going to end up paying for it through higher premiums. You'all think health care is expensive now..

[BDKJMU]

I don't know why my fellow conservatives are all up in arms about this. The President, the Speaker of the House and a bunch of really smart people in Washington have assured us that this bill will:

1. Provide healthcare coverage for everyone

2. Reduce the Federal defecit

3. Lower health insurance premiums

If this bill can do all three, that's wonderful!



Any of you Liberals care to make a wager on it accomplishing only 2 of the 3?

I don't believe Democrats have been pushing the bill as covering everyone. Certainly the leadership hasn't. Because IT DOESN'T.

It's no secret there are exemptions to the mandate, Hen. So, not sure why anyone would take that bet.

It's supposed to cover ~95% of Americans.

Illegal immigrants aren't Americans.

[Skjellyfetti]

Illegal immigrants aren't Americans.

Did I say they were?

[BDKJMU]

It's supposed to cover ~95% of Americans.

Illegal immigrants aren't Americans.

Illegal immigrants aren't Americans.

Did I say they were?

If there was supposedly 46 million or whatever it was uninsured, and the Democrat Obamacare bill claims to insure 32? million more Americans, that would leave about 14 million uninsured, most of them being illegal immigrants, ie not Americans. Your 95% claim would only work if you substituted the word "people" for "Americans".

[ASUMountaineer]

The difference is, those can STOP. This is forever.

Actually AZ, fortunately its not. As soon as the Republicans get control of both Houses and thw White House in 2012 this gets overturned in 2013.

I wouldn't be so sure. The RINOs in Congress love power just as much as the other side. We'll see, but I'd be surprised it's repealed...more like to have small changes, but keep the bill in effect.

[houndawg]

Do your family members belong to a union?

The RN is. The x-ray tech, I don't know. As for us, my wife is a teacher and I was a teacher but semi-retired to be a stay at home dad.
Her union dues are $1,100 a year which are allowed to be a write off at tax time. Mine are $57.

Haven't you heard the word here, bro? All union members are lazy, overpaid slackers - so what's the big deal?

[houndawg]

If we reduced our demand for mid-east oil we wouldn't need nearly as vast of a defense budget.

I agree- too bad the enviro wackos keep blocking new offshore oil drilling, drilling in ANWR, more coal (we are the Saudi Arabia of coal), more nuclear, etc.

The enviro-wacks have exactly zero political power and only serve as a convenient excuse, jennifer. The oil companies have thousands of leases they could drill on tomorrow if the wanted to. Which they don't. One more time: Not good bidniz to increase supply and reduce demand when you have things just the way you want them.

[Gil Dobie]

The enviro-wacks have exactly zero political power and only serve as a convenient excuse, jennifer.

I tend to disagree, we just had another bridge construction project put on hold per a Sierra Club law suit.

[houndawg]

The enviro-wacks have exactly zero political power and only serve as a convenient excuse, jennifer.

I tend to disagree, we just had another bridge construction project put on hold per a Sierra Club law suit.

Different sector, Gil.

In the energy sector the greenies got nothing. Like I said before, the oil companies have thousands of leases they could drill on tomorrow.

[AZGrizFan]

The difference is, those can STOP. This is forever.

Actually AZ, fortunately its not. As soon as the Republicans get control of both Houses and thw White House in 2012 this gets overturned in 2013.

Just like Dems were convinced that gaining control of the white house and both houses would mean the end of the Patriot Act?

[HI54UNI]

I tend to disagree, we just had another bridge construction project put on hold per a Sierra Club law suit.

Different sector, Gil.

In the energy sector the greenies got nothing. Like I said before, the oil companies have thousands of leases they could drill on tomorrow.

Just because you keep saying this doesn't mean it is true.

[houndawg]

Different sector, Gil.

In the energy sector the greenies got nothing. Like I said before, the oil companies have thousands of leases they could drill on tomorrow.

Just because you keep saying this doesn't mean it is true.

Doesn't matter anyway, because:

1) domestic oil isn't the solution, nuclear is.
2) The bottleneck is at the refining stage, where the profits are concentrated, not the crude stage.