Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by native »

Chizzang wrote:
native wrote:
I trust the A-J squared-away troopers, dawg. I just don't trust the sad-sack slackers.

Say it quickly three times.
The key is:
I don't really care - he didn't steal anything from me - and there's nothing I can do either way...
It's all in good fun

I mean Rush committed a class A felony and "paid" to walk free and nobody cared
seriously:
Glenn Beck willingly converted to Mormonism - that's like getting on the titanic after it hit the iceberg...


I mean if you can't laugh at these total dumb asses - what's left..?
:rofl:
Although I admit to being more willing to shitcan commies, cleets, I am also willing to shitcan any of them, including Hannity.

1. I am withholding judgment on Hannity for now, and
2. All you druggies and hypochondriacs should be in love with Rush, and
3. You guys have Beck all wrong... 8-) :lol: :kisswink:
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by houndawg »

native wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
The key is:
I don't really care - he didn't steal anything from me - and there's nothing I can do either way...
It's all in good fun

I mean Rush committed a class A felony and "paid" to walk free and nobody cared
seriously:
Glenn Beck willingly converted to Mormonism - that's like getting on the titanic after it hit the iceberg...


I mean if you can't laugh at these total dumb asses - what's left..?
:rofl:
Although I admit to being more willing to shitcan commies, cleets, I am also willing to shitcan any of them, including Hannity.

1. I am withholding judgment on Hannity for now, and
2. All you druggies and hypochondriacs should be in love with Rush, and
3. You guys have Beck all wrong... 8-) :lol: :kisswink:
How can you love a guy that can't handle his drugs?
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by danefan »

native wrote:
dbackjon wrote:
Well, going to their website, first thing you see is his mug

https://freedomconcerts.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Their response:

http://www.freedomalliance.org/images/p ... sponse.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(note, pdf, so I can't quote it here)
EDIT: Nice job, jonboy! Good on ya! :thumb:

From the pdf file referenced by Jon:

"...Listed below are the amounts that Freedom Alliance spent for each of the past three years and the categories on which they were spent. The figures are taken from our Federal Form 990 which is filed with the Internal Revenue Service and posted on our web site and audited by an independent auditor using Generally Accepted Accounting Principles. This financial record not only meets, but exceeds standards of program efficiency set by most charity evaluators.

In 2008, Freedom Alliance spent a total of $6,745,717. Of that:
79 percent ($5,317,970) was spent on Program Activities•
14 percent ($945,950) was spent on Fundraising•
7 percent ($481,797) was spent on Management • ..."

The filing shows similar performance figures for 2007 and 2006.

Bend over, dawg, and take it like a man. :rofl: :coffee:
So I think I'm going with the blog on this one. She wasn't exactly right, but she's closer to the truth then the numbers the FreedomAlliance's response includes.

I looked at 2007 and 2008 990s and got these totals:

2007
Revenue - $12,459,317
Grants Paid - $895,347
Operations Expenses - $5,189,127

That indicates to me that 41.65% of revenue went to overhead related only to paying out money and 7.19% went to actual grants paid.

The Reponse to the blog indicates that $6,084,474 was spent on "Program Activities". That is true. However, included in those "Program Activities" is $5,189,127 in overhead associated with providing the $895,347 in grants paid out. Some things that stand out as questionable (on paper at least) to me are as follows:
- $626,632 in salaries and compensation related to providing the grants.
- $1.16 million in postage and shipping costs
- $911,287 in printing and publications expenses
- $470,896 in conferences, conventions and meeting expenses
- $298,757 in profession fees, which is undoubetedly related to the management of their $14 million investment account.

While it does certainly take some overhead to handle the small yet numerous types of grants they provide (small scholarships to a couple hundred students and very small cash contributions (most in the $1000 per vet range)), expenses of roughly 6 times the amount provided in grants is way over the top. Especially when you consider that this does not include the general overhead expenses of the foundation (e.g. salaries paid to officers and general admin costs) or the expenses related to actually raising funds.

The numbers for 2008 were a little worse.

2008
Revenue - $8,781,431
Grants Paid - $1,370,063
Operations Expenses - $3,947,907

That indicates to me that 44.96% of revenue went to overhead related only to paying out money and 15.6% went to actual grants paid.

All in all, its not a chairty that I would be willing to donate to. However, with that being said I do not believe anyone is directly personally gaining from this charity. I just think the type of support they provide is better handled on a local level and is not the type that lends itself well to a national organization. That's why the expenses are so high. Whatever Hannity's motive is (clearly profit driven) his personal gain from this charity isn't indicated on the 990's.


EDIT: Somehow my calculations got screwed up. They're fixed now, but the result doesn't change. The material change in the analysis is that 2008 was actually slightly worse than 2007, not better as originally indicated.
Last edited by danefan on Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by native »

danefan wrote:
native wrote:
EDIT: Nice job, jonboy! Good on ya! :thumb:

From the pdf file referenced by Jon:

"...Listed below are the amounts that Freedom Alliance spent for each of the past three years and the categories on which they were spent. The figures are taken from our Federal Form 990 which is filed with the Internal Revenue Service and posted on our web site and audited by an independent auditor using Generally Accepted Accounting Principles. This financial record not only meets, but exceeds standards of program efficiency set by most charity evaluators.

In 2008, Freedom Alliance spent a total of $6,745,717. Of that:
79 percent ($5,317,970) was spent on Program Activities•
14 percent ($945,950) was spent on Fundraising•
7 percent ($481,797) was spent on Management • ..."

The filing shows similar performance figures for 2007 and 2006.

Bend over, dawg, and take it like a man. :rofl: :coffee:
So I think I'm going with the blog on this one. She wasn't exactly right, but she's closer to the truth then the numbers the FreedomAlliance's response includes.

I looked at 2007 and 2008 990s and got these totals:

2007
Revenue - $12,459,317
Grants Paid - $895,347
Operations Expenses - $6,566,003

That indicates to me that 52.7% of revenue went to overhead related only to paying out money and 7.19% went to actual grants paid.

The Reponse to the blog indicates that $6,084,474 was spent on "Program Activities". That is true. However, included in those "Program Activities" is $6,566,003 in overhead associated with providing the $895,347 in grants paid out. Some things that stand out as questionable (on paper at least) to me are as follows:
- $626,632 in salaries and compensation related to providing the grants.
- $1.16 million in postage and shipping costs
- $911,287 in printing and publications expenses
- $470,896 in conferences, conventions and meeting expenses
- $298,757 in profession fees, which is undoubetedly related to the management of their $14 million investment account.

While it does certainly take some overhead to handle the small yet numerous types of grants they provide (small scholarships to a couple hundred students and very small cash contributions (most in the $1000 per vet range)), expenses of roughly 7 times the amount provided in grants is way over the top. Especially when you consider that this does not include the general overhead expenses of the foundation (e.g. salaries paid to officers and general admin costs) or the expenses related to actually raising funds.

The numbers for 2008 were a little better, but not great.

2008
Revenue - $8,781,431
Grants Paid - $1,370,063
Operations Expenses - $5,375,654

That indicates to me that 61.22% of revenue went to overhead related only to paying out money and 15.6% went to actual grants paid.

All in all, its not a chairty that I would be willing to donate to. However, with that being said I do not believe anyone is directly personally gaining from this charity. I just think the type of support they provide is better handled on a local level and is not the type that lends itself well to a national organization. That's why the expenses are so high. Whatever Hannity's motive is (clearly profit driven) his personal gain from this charity isn't indicated on the 990's.
Good job, danefan. :thumb: The $1.16M in postage and shipping appears particularly egregious.
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by Col Hogan »

Thanks for the analysis, df...

Regarding this organization...while supporting injured troops and their families is one of my charities, this one is definately not on my list...

If anyone is interested in contributing to this type of charity, may I suggest my favorite...

Special Operations Warrior FOundation has been supporting troops and their families since 1980...their main focus is to insure the children of fallen Special Ops troops (in training or combat) can get a college education...

http://www.specialops.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IMHO, The Freedom Alliance, because they have provided SOME assistance, is two steps above scum of the earth... :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by native »

Col Hogan wrote:Thanks for the analysis, df...

Regarding this organization...while supporting injured troops and their families is one of my charities, this one is definately not on my list...

If anyone is interested in contributing to this type of charity, may I suggest my favorite...

Special Operations Warrior FOundation has been supporting troops and their families since 1980...their main focus is to insure the children of fallen Special Ops troops (in training or combat) can get a college education...

http://www.specialops.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IMHO, The Freedom Alliance, because they have provided SOME assistance, is two steps above scum of the earth... :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:
:thumb: :thumb:
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by danefan »

I just edited my above post. Somehow my calculations got screwed up. They're fixed now, but the result doesn't change. The material change in the analysis is that 2008 was actually slightly worse than 2007, not better as originally indicated.
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by ALPHAGRIZ1 »

I though Hannity was a total douchebag before I read this story, now he has taken the lead passing houndawg for first place.

Not even a delusional left winger like HD is in that fat fu*k Hannitys league.
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by houndawg »

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:I though Hannity was a total douchebag before I read this story, now he has taken the lead passing houndawg for first place.

Not even a delusional left winger like HD is in that fat fu*k Hannitys league.
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by dbackjon »

Great analysis, DF!
:thumb:
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by houndawg »

Col Hogan wrote:Thanks for the analysis, df...

Regarding this organization...while supporting injured troops and their families is one of my charities, this one is definately not on my list...

If anyone is interested in contributing to this type of charity, may I suggest my favorite...

Special Operations Warrior FOundation has been supporting troops and their families since 1980...their main focus is to insure the children of fallen Special Ops troops (in training or combat) can get a college education...

http://www.specialops.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IMHO, The Freedom Alliance, because they have provided SOME assistance, is two steps above scum of the earth... :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:

Thanks for the tip, Col., Maybe you could list some other outfits that are known to be legit?

BTW, any of you folks who play music for a job, avocation, or hobby, might give a thought to playing at your local VA hospital. You will be appreciated way out of proportion to your actual talent. Just like rap.
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by danefan »

houndawg wrote:
Col Hogan wrote:Thanks for the analysis, df...

Regarding this organization...while supporting injured troops and their families is one of my charities, this one is definately not on my list...

If anyone is interested in contributing to this type of charity, may I suggest my favorite...

Special Operations Warrior FOundation has been supporting troops and their families since 1980...their main focus is to insure the children of fallen Special Ops troops (in training or combat) can get a college education...

http://www.specialops.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IMHO, The Freedom Alliance, because they have provided SOME assistance, is two steps above scum of the earth... :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:

Thanks for the tip, Col., Maybe you could list some other outfits that are known to be legit?

BTW, any of you folks who play music for a job, avocation, or hobby, might give a thought to playing at your local VA hospital. You will be appreciated way out of proportion to your actual talent. Just like rap.
:rofl:

But in all seriousness, that's a fantastic suggestion. :nod:
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by danefan »

For comparisons sake I took a look at the 990's for the charity that Col linked to - Special Ops Warrior Project.

2008
Revenue - $5,838,415
Grants (including scholarships)- $1,269,199
Operatons Expenses related to grants - $812,709

That indicates to me that only 14% of revenue went to overhead related only to the paying out grants. The grants paid equaled 22% of their annual revenue. On top of that they do something that the Freedom Alliance does not (or at least does not detail in their 990)- they use their own resources to find grants from other charities for kids of wounded or killed vets. They did all of that with less than 14% of their revenue.

They bankrolled the rest into their endowment.
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by tampa_griz »

The rumors have been officially debunked:

http://www.freedomalliance.org/index.ph ... 7&Itemid=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.frumforum.com/hannitized-is-sanitized" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by ALPHAGRIZ1 »

I work way to hard to read this thread.
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by danefan »

tampa_griz wrote:The rumors have been officially debunked:

http://www.freedomalliance.org/index.ph ... 7&Itemid=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.frumforum.com/hannitized-is-sanitized" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's not debunking any rumors. Its just another characterization of what types of expenses should be considered relating to "Program Activities."

As I stated above, I don't believe Sean Hannity is directly personally profiting from this charity, and neither are any of the officers or directors of the charity. I do not, however, believe the charity is run efficiently enough for me to donate to it.

There are better charities that provide similar benefits, like the one Col linked to.
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by dbackjon »

tampa_griz wrote:The rumors have been officially debunked:

http://www.freedomalliance.org/index.ph ... 7&Itemid=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.frumforum.com/hannitized-is-sanitized" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Exact first link I posted already.

Danefan, who is a tax attorney, analyzed this, and showed the Freedom Alliance is LYING. This is a true allegation. Shameful behavior on their part.
:thumb:
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by Chizzang »

danefan wrote:
tampa_griz wrote:The rumors have been officially debunked:

http://www.freedomalliance.org/index.ph ... 7&Itemid=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.frumforum.com/hannitized-is-sanitized" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's not debunking any rumors. Its just another characterization of what types of expenses should be considered relating to "Program Activities."

As I stated above, I don't believe Sean Hannity is directly personally profiting from this charity, and neither are any of the officers or directors of the charity. I do not, however, believe the charity is run efficiently enough for me to donate to it.

There are better charities that provide similar benefits, like the one Col linked to.

We should all use charity money to fly around in private jets and eat 5 star dinners...
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by 89Hen »

native wrote:
ASUG8 wrote:If true, a simultaneous mauling by crocodiles and wolves isn't tough enough for him.

The police and firefighters don't call me anymore either after I asked the guys how much goes to the families. Crickets, then a quick click. :ohno: I'm not sympathetic to anyone fleecing people in the name of church or charity.
A lot of those police and fireman "fraternal organizations" don't even make their own phone calls. They outsource. :o Check it out. :roll:
A lot of them use companies that hire retired police and firemen to do the collecting. There was a company in the building I used to work in that had retired cops and firemen... all driving BMW's and Cadillacs. :nod:
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by Gil Dobie »

Grizalltheway wrote:Send his sorry as to Afghanistan. :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
I thought we were going to get out of Afghanistan :oops:
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by dbackjon »

Gil Dobie wrote:
Grizalltheway wrote:Send his sorry as to Afghanistan. :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
I thought we were going to get out of Afghanistan :oops:
No - that is Iraqistan
:thumb:
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Gil Dobie wrote: I thought we were going to get out of Afghanistan :oops:
Who said that? :? Not Obama.
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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by 89Hen »

Skjellyfetti wrote:Who said that? :? Not Obama.
Can you please just change your avatar and be done with it?

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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by Skjellyfetti »

89Hen wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:Who said that? :? Not Obama.
Can you please just change your avatar and be done with it?

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Re: Patriotism... the last refuge of the scoundrel

Post by danefan »

dbackjon wrote:
tampa_griz wrote:The rumors have been officially debunked:

http://www.freedomalliance.org/index.ph ... 7&Itemid=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.frumforum.com/hannitized-is-sanitized" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Exact first link I posted already.

Danefan, who is a tax attorney, analyzed this, and showed the Freedom Alliance is LYING. This is a true allegation. Shameful behavior on their part.
I didn't exactly say they are lying. I just said they are spinning their expenses in a certain way which the numbers do not necessarily support (at least in my opinion).
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