What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by youngterrier »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
youngterrier wrote: I don't want any form of central banking system. neither did Jefferson, neither did madison. all it does is inflate our currency and distort the market with easy money and easy credit that is made from thin air
I understand you don't want a central banking system. I asked what your alternative would be. It's easy to pick out weaknesses in things. It's much more difficult to produce more efficient and realistic alternatives.

And, PS... Madison created the 2nd National Bank after he found it impossible to fight a war without it. :kisswink:
No banking system, let the free market decide the value of our currency not some banker in washington (I'd prefer a commodity money myself)that way as the market grows so does the value of our currency.

Madison is seen as a failed presidency, he had no real way to fund the war so he went to banking.
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by kalm »

Baldy wrote:
As usual, you're wrong. It's not obfuscation if you don't know the answer. Hopefully this will clear it up for you.

We're talking NEO-Stalinism. The emphasis is on the Neo part, not the Stalinism.
Neo = New, recent, modified, revived, etc.

There are many different definitions. All have slightly different forms, but Neo-Stalinism is (according to Gorbachev, anyway) a Stalinist state without the large scale oppression, but the total domination of all political activities and the persecution of political opponents.

Again, Neo-Marxism is the ideology and Neo-Stalinism is the application of the ideology. In fact, you can't have Neo-Stalinism without the Marxist ideology (Neo or not). In other words, to be a Neo-Stalinist, you have to have both. The two are not mutually exclusive.

There is a difference between being a Libertarian and having a Libertarian 'streak'. You clearly stated that Summers was a Libertarian. He clearly is not.

Some could claim my indifference over the gay marriage issue or abortion could be considered a "progressive" streak. I can promise you without a doubt that I am not a "Progressive". :lol:

Hope that clears it up for you. :thumb:
I stated that some progressives have a libertarian streak, you brought up the Obama team, and I produced someone within it who has a libertarian[b] streak[/b].

BTW, nice back-peddling on neo-stanlinism. Since, as you say, we have to have both, I guess we're just waiting for the application part right? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by youngterrier »

Skjellyfetti wrote:Well, I disagree that there's been "very little poverty rate decline." It's dropped across the board. But, it's whether you consider it "signficant" or not. I do. You don't. That's probably part of why you're a Conk and I'm a Donk. :kisswink:

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on sexond thought you proved my point. this chart shows thay if anything the poverty rate for ages 64 and below has gone UP since then and the only reason 65+ has gone down is because of social security (which is another beast entirely)

(it's hipocritical to call people out for using wiki when you use a chart from wikimedia sky)

I'm a conk because I see reason
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by kalm »

JohnStOnge wrote:
No, the cost of labor cannot be kept "artificially" low as long as nobody is physically forced to work a job they don't want to work. The rest of your statements are a set of populist slogans.
Hell yes they're populist slogans, and for good reason. If a company produces a product that creates work conditions or pollution that causes health problems and the government or a health insurance company picks up the cost of clean-up or medical bills, that company has externalized those costs to society and is thus (to use the popular meme of the day) stealing from its neighbors and society.

And as wealth increases so does power and the ability to maintain that wealth and gain favorable rules to keep it.
Nobody should be forced to pay more for something than they want to pay for it. The idea that you or me or anybody else is "entitled" to some minimum amount for what we offer in terms of our labor is part of the entitlement mentality. It's related to the idea that we are owed something just because we exist. If you offer something that is coveted, you will be well paid. There are plenty of engineers, Doctors, etc., who are paid very well because what they offered is sought after. There is no need for consideration of something like a "minimum wage" in their cases because what they offer is in demand. There are plenty of people who offer skills that businesses are willing to compete for in order to gain the edge over other businesses.

This thing of thinking you are owed a certain wage because you can put a peg in a hole just like anybody else can put a peg in a hole is ridiculous.
Again, a nice utopic thought. The reality is that the world needs ditch diggers too. And a whole bunch of them are mostly content as long as you throw them a few crumbs. The problem is their crumbs in this country are getting fewer and further between while the master's crumb pile is growing larger by the day. At some point the diggers are going to notice this and then all hell breaks loose. See: The French Revolution.

The problem with your mindset is it neglects to realize the same driving motivation of self interest that is supposed to drive laissez faire capitalism is also akin to the one that creates the wealth gap - greed.

The irony is that the mythological unrestricted free market utopia you espouse would work if everyone played fair. That's simply not a part of the human condition to date.
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by kalm »

JohnStOnge wrote:In the feudal system, serfs were bound to the land. They were essentially slaves. They had no choice with respect to working for the Lord or not. Nobody in this country is bound to anybody else's land and nobody is forced to work for anybody else if they don't want to. Anybody is free to leave where they are, go to another job if they don't like the one they're working, ect.
I was using hyperbole, but the current healthcare system is a good example of a lack of choice:

'Yes I could leave my job for a better paying one or to start my own company, but losing my employer based healthcare is not worth the risk.'

And btw, in the current economy how wise is it to leave any job?
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote: I stated that some progressives have a libertarian streak, you brought up the Obama team, and I produced someone within it who has a libertarian[b] streak[/b].
Speaking of back peddling...
kalm wrote:BTW, Larry Summers would be one example of a libertarian on the Obama team.
Trying to pass someone off as a Libertarian who clearly isn't is not the same as a dyed in the wool Donk who has a Libertarian streak. Sorry...
BTW, nice back-peddling on neo-stanlinism. Since, as you say, we have to have both, I guess we're just waiting for the application part right? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Me having to explain it to you does not constitute a back peddle on my part.
I'll give you a :thumb: for trying though. :lol:
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by free7694 »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
youngterrier wrote: I don't want any form of central banking system. neither did Jefferson, neither did madison. all it does is inflate our currency and distort the market with easy money and easy credit that is made from thin air
I understand you don't want a central banking system. I asked what your alternative would be. It's easy to pick out weaknesses in things. It's much more difficult to produce more efficient and realistic alternatives.

And, PS... Madison created the 2nd National Bank after he found it impossible to fight a war without it. :kisswink:
I just took a midterm on Madison. Yes, he created the second national bank, but he didn't like it.
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by 89Hen »

Skjellyfetti wrote:That's probably part of why you're a Conk and I'm a Donk
I would guess you're a Donk because you're a young mountain hippie who has the time to ride a bike to Mexico and not have to worry about real problems. As for YT, he's a Conk because he was raised with common sense and values. ;)
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by houndawg »

Baldy wrote:
kalm wrote: And the application makes all the difference in the world. One is an economic theory, the other killed millions. It's kind of like your confusion between studying Marxism in college and applying mixed economy principles as POTUS.

So again, which conspiracy theory do you subscribe to? Obama as a Marxist, or your original statement that he's a neo-Stalinist? :D
As usual, you're wrong. It's not obfuscation if you don't know the answer. Hopefully this will clear it up for you.

We're talking NEO-Stalinism. The emphasis is on the Neo part, not the Stalinism.
Neo = New, recent, modified, revived, etc.

There are many different definitions. All have slightly different forms, but Neo-Stalinism is (according to Gorbachev, anyway) a Stalinist state without the large scale oppression, but the total domination of all political activities and the persecution of political opponents.

Again, Neo-Marxism is the ideology and Neo-Stalinism is the application of the ideology. In fact, you can't have Neo-Stalinism without the Marxist ideology (Neo or not). In other words, to be a Neo-Stalinist, you have to have both. The two are not mutually exclusive.

There is a difference between being a Libertarian and having a Libertarian 'streak'. You clearly stated that Summers was a Libertarian. He clearly is not.

Some could claim my indifference over the gay marriage issue or abortion could be considered a "progressive" streak. I can promise you without a doubt that I am not a "Progressive". :lol:

Hope that clears it up for you. :thumb:
1) :lol: Baldy quoting Gorbachev.

2) The definition exactly describes the US under W.

See: Free Speech Zones :nod:
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by kalm »

Baldy wrote:
kalm wrote: I stated that some progressives have a libertarian streak, you brought up the Obama team, and I produced someone within it who has a libertarian[b] streak[/b].
Speaking of back peddling...
kalm wrote:BTW, Larry Summers would be one example of a libertarian on the Obama team.
Trying to pass someone off as a Libertarian who clearly isn't is not the same as a dyed in the wool Donk who has a Libertarian streak. Sorry...
BTW, nice back-peddling on neo-stanlinism. Since, as you say, we have to have both, I guess we're just waiting for the application part right? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Me having to explain it to you does not constitute a back peddle on my part.
I'll give you a :thumb: for trying though. :lol:
I should have qualified my remark about Summers with the word "streak" since that's what we were arguing. :roll: But go read the wiki entry on summers and you'll find he's pretty much a top down economist in favor of tax cuts on capital gains and corporations, deregulation of markets, is opposed to unemployment and welfare programs.

He's right up your alley. :thumb:

A few tidbits:
During the California energy crisis of 2000, then-Treasury Secretary Summers teamed with Alan Greenspan and Enron executive Kenneth Lay to lecture California Governor Gray Davis on the causes of the crisis, explaining that the problem was excessive government regulation.[12] Under the advice of Kenneth Lay, Summers urged Davis to relax California's environmental standards in order to reassure the markets.[13]

Summers hailed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999, which lifted more than six decades of restrictions against banks offering commercial banking, insurance, and investment services (by repealing key provisions in the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act): "Today Congress voted to update the rules that have governed financial services since the Great Depression and replace them with a system for the 21st century," Summers said.[14] "This historic legislation will better enable American companies to compete in the new economy."[14] Many critics, including President Barack Obama, have suggested the 2007 subprime mortgage financial crisis was caused by the partial repeal of the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act.[15] Indeed, as a member of President Clinton's Working Group on Financial Markets, Summers, along with U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) Chairman Arthur Levitt, Fed Chairman Greenspan, and Secretary Rubin, torpedoed an effort to regulate the derivatives that many blame for bringing the financial market down in Fall 2008.[16]

Summers' role in the deregulation of derivatives contracts
On May 7, 1998, the CFTC issued a Concept Release soliciting input from regulators, academics, and practitioners to determine "how best to maintain adequate regulatory safeguards without impairing the ability of the OTC derivatives market to grow and the ability of U.S. entities to remain competitive in the global financial marketplace." [17] On July 30, 1998, then-Deputy Secretary of the Treasury Summers testified before congress that "the parties to these kinds of contract are largely sophisticated financial institutions that would appear to be eminently capable of protecting themselves from fraud and counterparty insolvencies." Summers, like Greenspan and Rubin who also opposed the concept release, offered no proof that the contracts would not be be misused by financial institutions. Instead, Summers stated that "to date there has been no clear evidence of a need for additional regulation of the institutional OTC derivatives market, and we would submit that proponents of such regulation must bear the burden of demonstrating that need." [18] This argument suggests that the default position in the disagreement was that Summers, Greenspan, and Rubin were right, and that anyone (i.e., Brooksley Born) who disagreed with them bore the burden of proving their position. In fact, subsequent events have proven that Summers, Rubin, and Greenspan misjudged the dangers posed by derivatives contracts.

The lack of regulation that allowed A.I.G. to sell hundreds of billions of dollars in credit default swaps on mortgage-backed securities was a direct result of efforts by the Treasury (first under Rubin and then under Summers), the Federal Reserve (under Greenspan), and the Securities and Exchange Commission (under Arthur Levitt) to deregulate the derivatives markets. The first response to the CFTC Concept Release was issued as a joint statement from Rubin, Greenspan, and Levitt who stated that they "have grave concerns about this action and its possible consequences." [19] Levitt and Greenspan have admitted that their views on this issue were mistaken. Levitt told WGBH in Boston that "I could have done much better. I could have made a difference." Greenspan told a congressional hearing that "I found a flaw ... in the model that I perceived is the critical functioning structure that defines how the world works." [20] [21] When George Stephanopoulos asked Summers about the financial crisis and in an ABC interview on March 15, 2009 Summers replied that "there are a lot of terrible things that have happened in the last eighteen months, but what’s happened at A.I.G. ... the way it was not regulated, the way no one was watching ... is outrageous."

At the 2005 Federal Reserve conference in Jackson Hole, Raghuram Rajan presented a paper called "Has Financial Development Made the World Riskier?" Rajan pointed to a number of potential problems with the financial developments of the past thirty years. [22] The problems that Rajan considers include skewed incentives of managers, herding behavior among traders, investment bankers, and hedge fund operators who suffer withdrawals if they under-perform the market. Rajan also discusses (on pp. 337-40) the problems associated with firms that "goose up returns" by taking risky positions that yield a "positive carry." This is how the infamous Joseph J. Cassano impressed his superiors at A.I.G. for a decade while sowing the destruction of the firm. [23] During the boom years of the housing market, the credit default swap contracts that A.I.G. Financial Products sold provided a stream of premium payments to the company with no expense stream. That's an example of what Rajan calls "goosing up returns" with latent risk. Rajan asks (on page 388) "If firms today implicitly are selling various kinds of default insurance to goose up returns, what happens if catastrophe strikes?" This is a fair question.

The flip side of the trade is equally problematic. Gregory Zuckerman in his book The Greatest Trade Ever about John Paulson's hedge fund recounts the difficulties that Paulson and others had holding on to their bets against the housing market. Even Paulson, whose timing couldn't have been better, spent a great deal of his time persuading investors to persist with the bet against the market. But month after month, millions of dollars were paid out on the credit default swap premia. The investors saw money spent and gone that could have been used to buy assets with rising prices, or at least held safely with a positive yield. As Rajan puts it (p. 338), "it takes a very brave investment manager with infinitely patient investors to fight the trend, even if the trend is a deviation from fundamental value."

Justin Lahart, writing in the Wall Street Journal in January 2009 about the response to Rajan's paper at the conference recounts that "former Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers, famous among economists for his blistering attacks, told the audience he found 'the basic, slightly lead-eyed [24] premise of [Mr. Rajan's] paper to be largely misguided.'" This is strong criticism, especially given Summer's role in deregulation of the credit default swap market, and the collapse in 2008 of A.I.G. other firms with massive exposures to credit default swaps on mortgage-backed securities.

In a recent paper (on pages 285-87), Steven Gjerstad and Nobel laureate Vernon L. Smith describe more fully the contribution of derivatives to the flow of mortgage funds that supported the housing bubble, the concerns that Brooksley Born had raised about the dangers inherent in these contracts, Summers' contributed to their deregulation, and how these contracts precipitated the collapse of the financial system in 2007 and 2008. [25]
As for neo-stalinism and according to your assertions, I'll ask again when do the gulags and the killings begin? :kisswink:
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote: I should have qualified my remark about Summers....
Ya think??? :o
But go read the wiki entry on summers.....
Save it, nobody cares Summers is a lightweight... :coffee:
As for neo-stalinism and according to your assertions, I'll ask again when do the gulags and the killings begin? :kisswink:
For you, I'll type this a little slower.
Again, Stalinism is a version of Marxist ideology which sometimes uses gulags and mass killings in order to control the population. Neo-Stalinism is the same as Stalinism EXCEPT for the gulags and mass killings (well until government health care takes over).

Better? :ugeek:
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by kalm »

Baldy wrote:
kalm wrote: I should have qualified my remark about Summers....
Ya think??? :o
But go read the wiki entry on summers.....
Save it, nobody cares Summers is a lightweight... :coffee:
As for neo-stalinism and according to your assertions, I'll ask again when do the gulags and the killings begin? :kisswink:
For you, I'll type this a little slower.
Again, Stalinism is a version of Marxist ideology which sometimes uses gulags and mass killings in order to control the population. Neo-Stalinism is the same as Stalinism EXCEPT for the gulags and mass killings (well until government health care takes over).

Better? :ugeek:
No, no. I get it. Obama is a Neo-Stalinist because he studied Marxism in college, and Larry Summer is now a lightweight due to his libertarian streak. :thumb:

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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote: No, no. I get it. Obama is a Neo-Stalinist because he studied Marxism in college, and Larry Summer is now a lightweight due to his libertarian streak.
No you don't but that is nothing new. :lol:

Obama is a Neo-Stalinist because he has embraced Marxist ideology in college. He actively sought out Marxists to form bonds and build friendships.
Chairman Maobama wrote: "I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets."

"Political discussions, the kind at Occidental had once seemed so intense and purposeful, came to take on the flavor of the socialist conferences I sometimes attended at Cooper Union"
Do yourself a favor, please put the shovel down...
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Larry Summers isn't now a lightweight...he has always been a lightweight.
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Baldy wrote:
Chairman Maobama wrote: "I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets."

"Political discussions, the kind at Occidental had once seemed so intense and purposeful, came to take on the flavor of the socialist conferences I sometimes attended at Cooper Union"
Misleading quote:
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/d ... stand.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by Baldy »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
Baldy wrote:
Misleading quote:
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/d ... stand.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Not in the context I'm using it.

That factcheck.org article is debunking a misconception about Obama rejecting his white heritage. I'm using it to show that he gravitated and sought out a 'relationship' with Marxists. Two totally different instances.
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by CID1990 »

Skjellyfetti wrote:Well, I disagree that there's been "very little poverty rate decline." It's dropped across the board. But, it's whether you consider it "signficant" or not. I do. You don't. That's probably part of why you're a Conk and I'm a Donk. :kisswink:

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Looking at your cute lil charty graphy thing, it looks like poverty levels went down (in aggregate) more under Republican presidencies than it did under Democrat ones.

Cue the "4 year lag" argument.
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by kalm »

Baldy wrote:
kalm wrote: No, no. I get it. Obama is a Neo-Stalinist because he studied Marxism in college, and Larry Summer is now a lightweight due to his libertarian streak.
No you don't but that is nothing new. :lol:

Obama is a Neo-Stalinist because he has embraced Marxist ideology in college. He actively sought out Marxists to form bonds and build friendships.
Chairman Maobama wrote: "I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets."

"Political discussions, the kind at Occidental had once seemed so intense and purposeful, came to take on the flavor of the socialist conferences I sometimes attended at Cooper Union"
Do yourself a favor, please put the shovel down...
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Larry Summers isn't now a lightweight...he has always been a lightweight.
Excellent, and thank you for confirming your position. You think Obama is a neo-stalinist because he studied marxism in college. And that little tidbit just somehow snuck past the liberal msm. :thumb: :rofl: :thumb: :rofl: :thumb:

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And Larry Summers, the current Director of the White House's National Economic Council for President, former University President of Harvard, former U.S. Treasury Secretary, and probably one of the top five people most responsible for the current economic crisis is a lightweight.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

And to think this whole wonderful exercise started with your confusion over the corporatist Obama administration somehow being over-run with progressives. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

(hint: progressivism and corporatism are opposed to each other.) :coffee:
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote: Excellent, and thank you for confirming your position. You think Obama is a neo-stalinist because he studied marxism in college. And that little tidbit just somehow snuck past the liberal msm. :thumb: :rofl: :thumb: :rofl: :thumb:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Reading is fundamental because your ignorance knows no bounds. There was nothing to sneak past the MSM because Obama never released any transcripts, records, writings, grades, etc. from his time at Colombia or Harvard. All you have to do is look at his radical left-wing, and yes, Marxist, associations in his "professional" life...Bill Ayres, Jeremiah Wright, Michael Pfleager, Ron Bloom, Anita Dunn, Van Jones, etc...
kalm wrote:And Larry Summers, the current Director of the White House's National Economic Council for President, former University President of Harvard, former U.S. Treasury Secretary, and probably one of the top five people most responsible for the current economic crisis is a lightweight.
Wow...you give poor Larry Summers way too much credit. The one thing is his most famous for is calling men smarter than women when it comes to science. He surely hasn't produced anything groundbreaking related to economic theory. :lol:
kalm wrote:And to think this whole wonderful exercise started with your confusion over the corporatist Obama administration somehow being over-run with progressives. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

(hint: progressivism and corporatism are opposed to each other.) :coffee:
You won't be surprised when I tell you this but...you guessed it, you're wrong, AGAIN.
Sorry, to sound like a broken record.
Progressivism and corporatism aren't opposed to each other. Progressivism is in direct opposition to Capitalism. Corporatism goes hand in hand with whomever is in power at the time. Who owns General Motors and Chrysler? Who owns 1/2 of every mortgage in the US? Who is in the process of taking over the entire healthcare system?

That's right, "Progressives" :nod:

Oh and BTW...do a little research on something called "Red Fascism" and it's connection with Stalinism and things might start to fall in place for ya... :thumb:
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by kalm »

Baldy wrote:
kalm wrote: Excellent, and thank you for confirming your position. You think Obama is a neo-stalinist because he studied marxism in college. And that little tidbit just somehow snuck past the liberal msm. :thumb: :rofl: :thumb: :rofl: :thumb:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Reading is fundamental because your ignorance knows no bounds. There was nothing to sneak past the MSM because Obama never released any transcripts, records, writings, grades, etc. from his time at Colombia or Harvard. All you have to do is look at his radical left-wing, and yes, Marxist, associations in his "professional" life...Bill Ayres, Jeremiah Wright, Michael Pfleager, Ron Bloom, Anita Dunn, Van Jones, etc...
kalm wrote:And Larry Summers, the current Director of the White House's National Economic Council for President, former University President of Harvard, former U.S. Treasury Secretary, and probably one of the top five people most responsible for the current economic crisis is a lightweight.
Wow...you give poor Larry Summers way too much credit. The one thing is his most famous for is calling men smarter than women when it comes to science. He surely hasn't produced anything groundbreaking related to economic theory. :lol:
kalm wrote:And to think this whole wonderful exercise started with your confusion over the corporatist Obama administration somehow being over-run with progressives. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

(hint: progressivism and corporatism are opposed to each other.) :coffee:
You won't be surprised when I tell you this but...you guessed it, you're wrong, AGAIN.
Sorry, to sound like a broken record.
Progressivism and corporatism aren't opposed to each other. Progressivism is in direct opposition to Capitalism. Corporatism goes hand in hand with whomever is in power at the time. Who owns General Motors and Chrysler? Who owns 1/2 of every mortgage in the US? Who is in the process of taking over the entire healthcare system?

That's right, "Progressives" :nod:

Oh and BTW...do a little research on something called "Red Fascism" and it's connection with Stalinism and things might start to fall in place for ya... :thumb:
Don't forget, progressives also own 100% of the U.S. military.
:hide: :D

So to recap:

Obama is a neo-stalinist.

Larry Summers is an example of an Obama team member with a libertarian streak but he is a lightweight.

Progressives are not opposed to corporatism.

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:rofl:
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Baldy
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote: Don't forget, progressives also own 100% of the U.S. military.
:hide: :D

So to recap:

Obama is a neo-stalinist.

Larry Summers is an example of an Obama team member with a libertarian streak but he is a lightweight.

Progressives are not opposed to corporatism.

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:rofl:
Looks like we've made a little progress (love the pun :lol: )

At least you've quit trying to make your senseless arguments now. :thumb:
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by kalm »

I'll just let your thoughts stand on their own. :thumb: :nod: :kisswink:
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote:I'll just let your thoughts stand on their own. :thumb: :nod: :kisswink:
Smartest thing you've said in a long time. :thumb:

:kisswink:
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by Chizzang »

89Hen wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:That's probably part of why you're a Conk and I'm a Donk
I would guess you're a Donk because you're a young mountain hippie who has the time to ride a bike to Mexico and not have to worry about real problems. As for YT, he's a Conk because he was raised with common sense and values. ;)
I knew there was a reason I like Liberals more than Conservatives
You nailed it 89Hen...

1) Real problems = The insane obsession with perception and image
2) Common Sense = There's no such thing... otherwise it would be common
3) Values = Republican code for: Fear of change and marginalized relevance / diminishing influence

:mrgreen:
Q: Name something that offends Republicans?
A: The actual teachings of Jesus
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by 89Hen »

Chizzang wrote:I knew there was a reason I like Liberals more than Conservatives
You nailed it 89Hen...

1) Real problems = The insane obsession with perception and image
2) Common Sense = There's no such thing... otherwise it would be common
3) Values = Republican code for: Fear of change and marginalized relevance / diminishing influence

:mrgreen:
:lol:

Real problems = raising children while holding down a job
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Re: What Do Progressives Really Stand For?

Post by native »

89Hen wrote:
Chizzang wrote:I knew there was a reason I like Liberals more than Conservatives
You nailed it 89Hen...

1) Real problems = The insane obsession with perception and image
2) Common Sense = There's no such thing... otherwise it would be common
3) Values = Republican code for: Fear of change and marginalized relevance / diminishing influence

:mrgreen:
:lol:

Real problems = raising children while holding down a job
Cleets doesn't grasp a number of important concepts like raising children or taking a (physical) stand for liberty. Every risk is too much for Cleets personally. No sacrifice is too great as long as someone else makes it.

He is the poster child for spoiled child.
Proud Prince of Purple Pomposity
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YT is not a communist. He's just a ...young pup.
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