National Review article about tax code

[Skjellyfetti]

What is the solution?

Focusing on education. Making sure we have good teachers that give a damn in the classroom. Get rid of the poor teachers. Stop worrying about the latest trend or newest technology. Use the money we are wasting on trends and use it to pay teachers better. Reduce some of the bureaucracy and paperwork so we can reduce administrators to free up money. Have school board members that give a **** about kids instead of trying to advance their own agendas.

A few years ago our board started a program to work on improving test scores. Our contract with our school supt. says if we don't improve we are starting by showing him the door. We increased training for teachers, we use team teaching in certain scenarios so new teachers are paired with experienced teachers, and we use test scores to determine training for teachers and for evaluating teachers. We started with an enhanced focus on reading. If someone can't read how can they do other subjects?

The Iowa Assoc of School Boards has done a lot of research on this and we used their data to develop our program. As OL FU noted home life plays a role but the data indicates that good teaching can overcome bad parenting. Their studies also show a correlation with shitty teachers. One example I remember, there was a school in Texas where the average reading proficiency score in 3rd grade were 75 (I'm making the number up because I don't remember it exactly but the general point is here). 4th grade was 80, 5th grade was 65, 6th grade was 75. They couldn't figure out why the scores were always dropping in 5th grade. They looked at all the info and it came back to a teacher. They got rid of the teacher and they lost the drop in 5th grade. Another example is a school in Milwaukee where they've implemented something similar to what we have. They call it the three 90s school. 90% of the kids live in poverty, 90% are minorities, but 90% can read at the appropriate grade level.

We've had good buy in from our staff. We haven't had to fire anyone. Fortunately most of our teachers still care. Our elementary teachers and elementary principal are beyond awesome with how they are approaching this. 40% of our elementary students qualify for free or reduced price lunches so we have our poverty/shitty home life issues yet we are now scoring in the top 10% of all schools in the state. Our state dept. of education nominated our elementary school for a National Blue Ribbon School award from the federal dept of education because of our scores combined with our poverty rate. in 2008 we were one of 320 schools nationally to receive the award.

It's not easy but with the right approach it can be done.

Good post and thanks for the response. I agree with just most everything in there.

[BDKJMU]

Listen up. We all know what needs to be done. We all know that we need some legislators and an executive branch that is truly interested in the American Republic and not worried about the voters back home. Drastic measures need to be taken. We spend 6% on Education and +50% on Defense.

First, suspend all foreign aid. Why should we pay for the world, when we are in trouble back home. We take care of other people in the world but not ourselves.

Secondly, Increase funding for Education, Science and Technology. I'm talking a serious increase, we could scale back the defense budget 20% and STILL spend more on defense than the rest of the world combined. We roughly spend 9 times as much money on defense as the Chinese do. We can cut out some programs, become more leaner and common. In my line of work we have 5 variations for the same truck and most of those variations are differences in color and things like rubber. I truly believe that if we SUCCESSFULLY educate more people and keep more people on track, then that will allow more people to become productive members of society and reduce the amount of leeches on the government.

Of course, you need a Government that isn't afraid to make the difficult decisions inspite of thier career aspirations. If it truly is in the best interest of the Republic, and we see that, I think we should have no issue re-electing those people.


Then again, that's just my

Education is not a federal responsibility...show me where in the Constitution it is listed as a federal responsibility...

Cut the entire education budget from the federal tax rolls...give the money back to the people...then the states can tax at the appropriate level for education...ITS A STATE RESPONSIBILITY!!!

Ditto. The fed spends 6% on education. It should be ZERO. Education is a local and state matter. Period.

US already spends more per student on education than any other major industrialized nation. As a whole, education in the US has problems. $ isn't one of them.

[AZGrizFan]

Were you speaking to me?

You, Ibanez, and anyone who thinks we spend too much on education, think it should be cut, think we can't afford it, etc.

Do we just do nothing and hope it improves on its own?

KY---I can't speak for other districts, but I can speak about the issues facing the school district MY kids attend school in (and the one in which I ran for school board several months ago). 2 main problems as I see it:

1) Parents have neutered ANY ability teachers have to reprimand/control their children in the educational setting. You've got a classic case of the inmates running the asylum. I've been to countless school board meetings that begin with public input, and it usually revolves around teacher misconduct or some parent blindly claiming their kid was "unjustly accused"...the teachers have gotten to the point where they're just checking out. Teachers don't care if students turn in homework. They don't care if students fail. There's no communication with parents of struggling students. Teachers simply don't give a fuck anymore because they've been totally un-empowered to do a damn thing about it.

2) Parents are WAY too involved in the day/day running of our district. Nary a single meaningful decision can/will be made without 3 or 4 "community meetings" or "focus committee groups", etc. etc. Thus, the bureaucracy train just got loaded down even worse and decisions that should be made in a timely fashion are made months/years too late (closing a school, redistricting, curriculum choices, hiring/firing decisions, etc., etc., etc.). These delayed decisions have cost our district millions and millions of dollars over the course of the last 7-8 years.

Example: We had enrollment issues at our high school 6-7 years ago. I sat on a committee (one of many ) that debated the best course of action. After reviewing all the data, I made the recommendation to the committee that we convert from K-5 to K-6 at the elementary schools (no capacity issues there), make middle schools 7-9 instead of 6-8, and that way we could avoid building a new high school (and be able to return $21 million in bond money to the public). The master school plan had been developed using 1998 demographic data that just wasn't EVER going to come to pass. I was laughed out of the building by professional "educators"...told that "there's reams of studies that show elementary school children perform better in a K-5 setting, that 6th graders belong with 8th graders and not with kindergarteners....blah, blah, blah. It had nothing to do with MONEY and everything to do with educational THEORY.

Long story short: in 2009 (6 years AFTER my recommendation), our district made the decison to convert to a K-6 elementary school environment, 7-8 middle school (close one middle school entirely), and expand the existing HS campus, returing approximately $15 million back in unused bonds. Now, I'm not saying they made that decision because of my recommendation. I'm saying that a decision that should have been made 6 years ago was made 6 years too late. That's just one example of a school board's fear in making a fucking decision because it might mean they won't get reelected.

Inside the school system, the inmates (students) are running the asylum. Outside the schools walls, the inmates (parents) are running the asylum. It's a recipe for disaster, and that's exactly what we're seeing all across America.

Solution: Bring back corporal punishment in the school system. Stop systematically advancing students who aren't ready for the next grade (graduation isn't a RIGHT, it's a privilege). Empower teachers to regain control of their classrooms. Quit micromanaging the process (parents at the school board level, school board at the administrative level, administrators at the teacher level...it's a fucking epidemic).

Mark's right, more money is NOT the answer. But neither is drowning in red tape, and that's what's become of our school system.

[HI54UNI]

You, Ibanez, and anyone who thinks we spend too much on education, think it should be cut, think we can't afford it, etc.

Do we just do nothing and hope it improves on its own?

KY---I can't speak for other districts, but I can speak about the issues facing the school district MY kids attend school in (and the one in which I ran for school board several months ago). 2 main problems as I see it:

1) Parents have neutered ANY ability teachers have to reprimand/control their children in the educational setting. You've got a classic case of the inmates running the asylum. I've been to countless school board meetings that begin with public input, and it usually revolves around teacher misconduct or some parent blindly claiming their kid was "unjustly accused"...the teachers have gotten to the point where they're just checking out. Teachers don't care if students turn in homework. They don't care if students fail. There's no communication with parents of struggling students. Teachers simply don't give a fuck anymore because they've been totally un-empowered to do a damn thing about it.

We have public input at our meetings but we don't allow parents to bring stuff up about teachers unless the parent has followed the chain of command. If you've got a beef with your kid's teacher you have to talk to the teacher first or if you fear that the teacher will have a reprisal against your child you can go to the building principal. If you still have no satisfaction you can go to the supt. Still no satisfaction you can go to the board. If you go straight to the board our board president will shut you down at the meeting. No discussion. That's not our job to deal with the petty bullshit. If it does make it to the board after following the chain of command we do it as an agenda item in closed session. Prevents all the grandstanding for the press.

2) Parents are WAY too involved in the day/day running of our district. Nary a single meaningful decision can/will be made without 3 or 4 "community meetings" or "focus committee groups", etc. etc. Thus, the bureaucracy train just got loaded down even worse and decisions that should be made in a timely fashion are made months/years too late (closing a school, redistricting, curriculum choices, hiring/firing decisions, etc., etc., etc.). These delayed decisions have cost our district millions and millions of dollars over the course of the last 7-8 years.

Example: We had enrollment issues at our high school 6-7 years ago. I sat on a committee (one of many ) that debated the best course of action. After reviewing all the data, I made the recommendation to the committee that we convert from K-5 to K-6 at the elementary schools (no capacity issues there), make middle schools 7-9 instead of 6-8, and that way we could avoid building a new high school (and be able to return $21 million in bond money to the public). The master school plan had been developed using 1998 demographic data that just wasn't EVER going to come to pass. I was laughed out of the building by professional "educators"...told that "there's reams of studies that show elementary school children perform better in a K-5 setting, that 6th graders belong with 8th graders and not with kindergarteners....blah, blah, blah. It had nothing to do with MONEY and everything to do with educational THEORY.

Long story short: in 2009 (6 years AFTER my recommendation), our district made the decison to convert to a K-6 elementary school environment, 7-8 middle school (close one middle school entirely), and expand the existing HS campus, returing approximately $15 million back in unused bonds. Now, I'm not saying they made that decision because of my recommendation. I'm saying that a decision that should have been made 6 years ago was made 6 years too late. That's just one example of a school board's fear in making a fucking decision because it might mean they won't get reelected.

This has probably been one of our board's biggest issues with our supt. He is the type of guy that wants community input on everything. Certain things it is a must but on others it drags everything out so we have to keep him in check. That's why the board was elected. To quote one of my fellow board members at a public meeting on a sharing agreement we entered into with a smaller neighboring district "if the public doesn't like it they can vote my dumb ass out".

Inside the school system, the inmates (students) are running the asylum. Outside the schools walls, the inmates (parents) are running the asylum. It's a recipe for disaster, and that's exactly what we're seeing all across America.

Solution: Bring back corporal punishment in the school system. Stop systematically advancing students who aren't ready for the next grade (graduation isn't a RIGHT, it's a privilege). Empower teachers to regain control of their classrooms. Quit micromanaging the process (parents at the school board level, school board at the administrative level, administrators at the teacher level...it's a fucking epidemic).

Mark's right, more money is NOT the answer. But neither is drowning in red tape, and that's what's become of our school system.

Corporal punishment isn't ever coming back. The rest is .

[Ibanez]

What's your solution? Don't criticize my opinion without offering up a solution.

Isn't that what you just did? You still haven't given me YOUR solution yet. Nice deflection, though.

How do you you propose we get parents to teach thier children, care for them and cultivate productive members of society?

We can't.

Which is why I support funding schools to the max, encouraging bright and motivated college grads to enter teaching field, extra-curricular activities, reform No Child Left Behind-- support failing school disctricts-- don't punish them, etc. Yup, all this will cost more... but, we need to spend it and we should. We don't spend nearly as much PER CAPITA on education as most of the leading countries.


Still waiting for your solution to the education problem that involves cutting education expenses. Though, you'll just ignore it I'm sure.

Listen here I never said to cut expenses. If you would read my post you would have read that I said INCREASE FUNDING for education. Page FUCKING 2...

Listen up. We all know what needs to be done. We all know that we need some legislators and an executive branch that is truly interested in the American Republic and not worried about the voters back home. Drastic measures need to be taken. We spend 6% on Education and +50% on Defense.

First, suspend all foreign aid. Why should we pay for the world, when we are in trouble back home. We take care of other people in the world but not ourselves.

Secondly, Increase funding for Education, Science and Technology. I'm talking a serious increase, we could scale back the defense budget 20% and STILL spend more on defense than the rest of the world combined. We roughly spend 9 times as much money on defense as the Chinese do. We can cut out some programs, become more leaner and common. In my line of work we have 5 variations for the same truck and most of those variations are differences in color and things like rubber. I truly believe that if we SUCCESSFULLY educate more people and keep more people on track, then that will allow more people to become productive members of society and reduce the amount of leeches on the government.

Of course, you need a Government that isn't afraid to make the difficult decisions inspite of thier career aspirations. If it truly is in the best interest of the Republic, and we see that, I think we should have no issue re-electing those people.


Then again, that's just my

God damnit, read posts before you fucking type. Another thing, Throwing money at a problem isn't going to fix a problem, you have to hit it from all sides. You have to try to educate the parents, give the teachers more compensation, all the tools they need and a safe enviroment.

Deflection? If you don't want your shit thrown in your face, don't ask for it. If someone uses your own tactic on you, don't get pissed. IT'S YOUR FUCKING TACTIC. As to ignoring, don't even presume to know me or anything about me with your asshole comment

Code: Select all

Though, you'll just ignore it I'm sure

Don't presume to have me figured out. Fuckin A.

[AZGrizFan]

I couldn't agree with your board member any more strenuously, HI. That would have been the beauty of being elected to the board. I wouldn't have CARED if I got reelected....more than willing to make the tough decisions without applying analysis paralysis to the situation!

[Ibanez]

Were you speaking to me?

You, Ibanez, and anyone who thinks we spend too much on education, think it should be cut, think we can't afford it, etc.

Do we just do nothing and hope it improves on its own?

ONCE AGAIN, IF YOU WOULD USE SOME EDUCATION YOU WOULD REALIZE, THAT IN PLAIN ENGLISH I STATED WE NEED TO INCREASE FUNDING. BEHAVIOUR LIKE YOURS MAKES ME SO IRATE ON A LEVEL THAT IS PROFOUND.

[Ibanez]

Just thought of something but I would have to gather more information later. How would changing PreK and Elementary school help our schools? I hear a lot of talk about the need to seriously update these. Also, should we go year round. I'll admit, I forgot many lessons in the summer months between grades. We aren't a predominatly agrarian society, so harvesting isn't hindering the education of our young people.

[houndawg]

Just thought of something but I would have to gather more information later. How would changing PreK and Elementary school help our schools? I hear a lot of talk about the need to seriously update these. Also, should we go year round. I'll admit, I forgot many lessons in the summer months between grades. We aren't a predominatly agrarian society, so harvesting isn't hindering the education of our young people.

If you're so smart how come you play an Ibanez?

[Ibanez]

Just thought of something but I would have to gather more information later. How would changing PreK and Elementary school help our schools? I hear a lot of talk about the need to seriously update these. Also, should we go year round. I'll admit, I forgot many lessons in the summer months between grades. We aren't a predominatly agrarian society, so harvesting isn't hindering the education of our young people.

If you're so smart how come you play an Ibanez?

For one, I never claimed to be "so smart". So your comment lacks merit. Secondly, Ibanez is a quality instrument. My Fender Strat and Behringer are also quality instruments. Regardless, it is the player that makes the instrument sound good. I've heard Martin D12's sound like shit in the hands of inexperienced guitarists.

[houndawg]

If you're so smart how come you play an Ibanez?

For one, I never claimed to be "so smart". So your comment lacks merit. Secondly, Ibanez is a quality instrument. My Fender Strat and Behringer are also quality instruments. Regardless, it is the player that makes the instrument sound good. I've heard Martin D12's sound like **** in the hands of inexperienced guitarists.

I didn't know they made guitars but I hope Behringer makes better guitars than the cheap Taiwanese electronic throw away junk they pass off as amps and speakers and mixing boards. Your point about the player being more important than the instrument is well taken, but the Martin will sound better every time that an experienced player plays them both.

BTW, I was just funnin' ya about the Ibanez, they're a good value at their price point.

[Ibanez]

For one, I never claimed to be "so smart". So your comment lacks merit. Secondly, Ibanez is a quality instrument. My Fender Strat and Behringer are also quality instruments. Regardless, it is the player that makes the instrument sound good. I've heard Martin D12's sound like **** in the hands of inexperienced guitarists.

I didn't know they made guitars but I hope Behringer makes better guitars than the cheap Taiwanese electronic throw away junk they pass off as amps and speakers and mixing boards. Your point about the player being more important than the instrument is well taken, but the Martin will sound better every time that an experienced player plays them both.

BTW, I was just funnin' ya about the Ibanez, they're a good value at their price point.

Hey now, I loved my Beringer amp! As for the guitar, i'm using the body more than anything. i'll put some humbuckers in this year and make it sound bad ass.

[houndawg]

I didn't know they made guitars but I hope Behringer makes better guitars than the cheap Taiwanese electronic throw away junk they pass off as amps and speakers and mixing boards. Your point about the player being more important than the instrument is well taken, but the Martin will sound better every time that an experienced player plays them both.

BTW, I was just funnin' ya about the Ibanez, they're a good value at their price point.

Hey now, I loved my Beringer amp! As for the guitar, i'm using the body more than anything. i'll put some humbuckers in this year and make it sound bad ass.

Rock the house, Bubba!