Seniors Told To Stop Praying *Aloud* Before Meals

[Pwns]

Just making sure everyone is aware...no one is saying they can't pray...just that they have to do it silently. And personally, I still find that just a dumb as not letting schools have prayers before football games.

When I have friends that want to go to a movie (I don't watch movies in theatres any more because of ridiculous ticket prices) or want to drive to the beach (usually there's not anything I care anything about doing there) I don't complain that they are being insensitive to me. I just don't participate. Same deal with Christian prayer. If it ain't your thing, just don't participate and quit pouting like a baby about it.

[ASUMountaineer]

Holy...I agree with JSO.

A caveat, there were no old people in those days. So that is probably a damn good reason they would have been against health care as well.

[DJH]

Just making sure everyone is aware...no one is saying they can't pray...just that they have to do it silently. And personally, I still find that just a dumb as not letting schools have prayers before football games.

When I have friends that want to go to a movie (I don't watch movies in theatres any more because of ridiculous ticket prices) or want to drive to the beach (usually there's not anything I care anything about doing there) I don't complain that they are being insensitive to me. I just don't participate. Same deal with Christian prayer. If it ain't your thing, just don't participate and quit pouting like a baby about it.

No kidding. Grow up people.

Just because some like to live and preach a life of nothingness like D1B, doesn't mean everyone else has to do the same. Let them pray if they want.

[Grizalltheway]

Just making sure everyone is aware...no one is saying they can't pray...just that they have to do it silently. And personally, I still find that just a dumb as not letting schools have prayers before football games.

When I have friends that want to go to a movie (I don't watch movies in theatres any more because of ridiculous ticket prices) or want to drive to the beach (usually there's not anything I care anything about doing there) I don't complain that they are being insensitive to me. I just don't participate. Same deal with Christian prayer. If it ain't your thing, just don't participate and quit pouting like a baby about it.

No kidding. Grow up people.

Just because some like to live and preach a life of nothingness like D1B, doesn't mean everyone else has to do the same. Let them pray if they want.

"life of nothingness"

I love it. If someone chooses to reject the fairy tales their parents told them as a kid, their life if automatically meaningless. Good stuff.

[Chizzang]

Tman, like most of your posts, this is bullshit. Those people were not told to stop praying, they were told to keep their nursury rhyme bullshit to themselves and not bother the other customers, so fuck you. We all have to tolerate various members of your family preaching on the street corners, loudly, and passing out copies of the bible the size of a sugar cube. Ok? We all do and no one cares. The minute those motherfuckers enter a building pay for by me, he or they need to shut the fuck up about baby jesus and the blessed virgin mary while I'm trying to eat or get my drivers license.

Like all these "christian victim" stories, if they really were quietly mumbling their stupid fucking prayers, THERE WOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM.

After reading the bulk of this thread... I'm shocked to announce D1B is actually "more" correct
1) Nobody was told "not to pray"
2) Silent prayer was acceptable
3) Over-reaction and delusions of persecution are common when told to keep Christianity where it belongs
4) The Federal Government cannot sponsor one religion or another
~! (Bonus) T-Man Bullsh!t thread title alert

The usual T-man stuff here people... ignore his psychological issues surrounding religious persecution - they're a little grandiose and dramatically exaggerated when he thinks he has an audience

[89Hen]

After reading the bulk of this thread... I'm shocked to announce D1B is actually "more" correct
1) Nobody was told "not to pray"
2) Silent prayer was acceptable

3) Splitting hairs when a Lib is in question is acceptible behavior.

[Chizzang]

After reading the bulk of this thread... I'm shocked to announce D1B is actually "more" correct
1) Nobody was told "not to pray"
2) Silent prayer was acceptable

3) Splitting hairs when a Lib is in question is acceptible behavior.

Not splitting hairs...
It's called: Actually being honest - as in "not" attempting to deceive - which the thread title does.

There's great points on both sides - hence - I used the phrase more correct

[D1B]

Just making sure everyone is aware...no one is saying they can't pray...just that they have to do it silently. And personally, I still find that just a dumb as not letting schools have prayers before football games.

When I have friends that want to go to a movie (I don't watch movies in theatres any more because of ridiculous ticket prices) or want to drive to the beach (usually there's not anything I care anything about doing there) I don't complain that they are being insensitive to me. I just don't participate. Same deal with Christian prayer. If it ain't your thing, just don't participate and quit pouting like a baby about it.

No kidding. Grow up people.

Just because some like to live and preach a life of nothingness like D1B, doesn't mean everyone else has to do the same. Let them pray if they want.

Jesus Fucking Christ, your mom is letting you use the computer again. Don't break it, cuz her and I are learning French together on it, naked.

You know what, if what you say, just let em pray, would be the end of it, I wouldn't give a fuck. The reality though is you fundamentalist fucks can never stop. Allowing you idiots to mumble would rapidly lead to erecting an altar with your bloody fucking jesus bullshit and cannibalism eucharist ceremonies, ten commandments and all the other slippery slope shit that make you people both mentally ill and a complete and utter pain in the ass for reasonable people like me.

[D1B]

No kidding. Grow up people.

Just because some like to live and preach a life of nothingness like D1B, doesn't mean everyone else has to do the same. Let them pray if they want.

"life of nothingness"

I love it. If someone chooses to reject the fairy tales their parents told them as a kid, their life if automatically meaningless. Good stuff.

Lay off him GATW, chances are quite high he's my son.

[JohnStOnge]

So let me get this straight...some of you people honestly don't think people should be allowed to pray out loud before they eat because they're eating a meal paid for in part by government? Seriously?

I think this goes even beyond freedom of religion into the area of freedom of speech. I realize there is a lot of hostility towards religion out there. But good GRIEF.

[JohnStOnge]

Whatever John. The highest courts have repeatedly ruled prayer in public schools is unconstitutional. This is a non issue.

It's a huge issue. It's the issue of whether or not the Constitution controls the Court or the Court controls the Constitution. If the Court controls the Constitution there is really no point in even having a Constitution. And I think we both know what the situation is. If you truely believe in Constitutional government, you do not believe in the role into which the US Court system has evolved.

Yes, it's true that as a practical matter we live in a system where the Courts distort the Constitution at will. That doesn't make it right.

[travelinman67]

Tman, like most of your posts, this is bullshit. Those people were not told to stop praying, they were told to keep their nursury rhyme bullshit to themselves and not bother the other customers, so fuck you. We all have to tolerate various members of your family preaching on the street corners, loudly, and passing out copies of the bible the size of a sugar cube. Ok? We all do and no one cares. The minute those motherfuckers enter a building pay for by me, he or they need to shut the fuck up about baby jesus and the blessed virgin mary while I'm trying to eat or get my drivers license.

Like all these "christian victim" stories, if they really were quietly mumbling their stupid fucking prayers, THERE WOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM.

After reading the bulk of this thread... I'm shocked to announce D1B is actually "more" correct
1) Nobody was told "not to pray"
2) Silent prayer was acceptable
3) Over-reaction and delusions of persecution are common when told to keep Christianity where it belongs
4) The Federal Government cannot sponsor one religion or another
~! (Bonus) T-Man Bullsh!t thread title alert

The usual T-man stuff here people... ignore his psychological issues surrounding religious persecution - they're a little grandiose and dramatically exaggerated when he thinks he has an audience

In the interest of fairness, I've added the word "aloud" to the thread title. That, however, does not negate the inappropriateness of the meal delivery service owner's request.

The act of reciting their prayers aloud is a doctrinal practice for those people. Forcing them to remain silent, infringes on their religious doctrine. It's no different than the meal service advising Orthodox Jews they can no longer have the option of Kosher meals, as that would be recognizing and validating their religious beliefs: Which, of course, would be a "violation" of the alleged "separation" requirement.

Both interpretations are bullshit. It's no different than Douche1Bag holding a crystal over his plate while reciting incantations of Universal Natural Law. His action harms no one, nor does the spoken prayer. This is simply an incident where someone attempted to make hay over Christian behavior, and utilized misinterpreted "separation" law to justify their action.

More Christian hate, further validated by it's defense emanating from haters.

[houndawg]

After reading the bulk of this thread... I'm shocked to announce D1B is actually "more" correct
1) Nobody was told "not to pray"
2) Silent prayer was acceptable
3) Over-reaction and delusions of persecution are common when told to keep Christianity where it belongs
4) The Federal Government cannot sponsor one religion or another
~! (Bonus) T-Man Bullsh!t thread title alert

The usual T-man stuff here people... ignore his psychological issues surrounding religious persecution - they're a little grandiose and dramatically exaggerated when he thinks he has an audience

In the interest of fairness, I've added the word "aloud" to the thread title. That, however, does not negate the inappropriateness of the meal delivery service owner's request.

The act of reciting their prayers aloud is a doctrinal practice for those people. Forcing them to remain silent, infringes on their religious doctrine. It's no different than the meal service advising Orthodox Jews they can no longer have the option of Kosher meals, as that would be recognizing and validating their religious beliefs: Which, of course, would be a "violation" of the alleged "separation" requirement.

Both interpretations are bullshit. It's no different than Douche1Bag holding a crystal over his plate while reciting incantations of Universal Natural Law. His action harms no one, nor does the spoken prayer. This is simply an incident where someone attempted to make hay over Christian behavior, and utilized misinterpreted "separation" law to justify their action.

More Christian hate, further validated by it's defense emanating from haters.

It's different with the christians, t'man, you can't let them get their foot in the door; they're relentless about inflicting their weird beliefs upon whoever can't get away from them. Christians and Hare Krishnas.

[D1B]

After reading the bulk of this thread... I'm shocked to announce D1B is actually "more" correct
1) Nobody was told "not to pray"
2) Silent prayer was acceptable
3) Over-reaction and delusions of persecution are common when told to keep Christianity where it belongs
4) The Federal Government cannot sponsor one religion or another
~! (Bonus) T-Man Bullsh!t thread title alert

The usual T-man stuff here people... ignore his psychological issues surrounding religious persecution - they're a little grandiose and dramatically exaggerated when he thinks he has an audience

In the interest of fairness, I've added the word "aloud" to the thread title. That, however, does not negate the inappropriateness of the meal delivery service owner's request.

The act of reciting their prayers aloud is a doctrinal practice for those people. Forcing them to remain silent, infringes on their religious doctrine. It's no different than the meal service advising Orthodox Jews they can no longer have the option of Kosher meals, as that would be recognizing and validating their religious beliefs: Which, of course, would be a "violation" of the alleged "separation" requirement.

Both interpretations are bullshit. It's no different than Douche1Bag holding a crystal over his plate while reciting incantations of Universal Natural Law. His action harms no one, nor does the spoken prayer. This is simply an incident where someone attempted to make hay over Christian behavior, and utilized misinterpreted "separation" law to justify their action.

More Christian hate, further validated by it's defense emanating from haters.

Einstein, silent prayers are more valid than vocal ones, according to jesus. Read your bible dumb ass.

Also, no one forced them not to pray. Yawn and next....

[travelinman67]

In the interest of fairness, I've added the word "aloud" to the thread title. That, however, does not negate the inappropriateness of the meal delivery service owner's request.

The act of reciting their prayers aloud is a doctrinal practice for those people. Forcing them to remain silent, infringes on their religious doctrine. It's no different than the meal service advising Orthodox Jews they can no longer have the option of Kosher meals, as that would be recognizing and validating their religious beliefs: Which, of course, would be a "violation" of the alleged "separation" requirement.

Both interpretations are bullshit. It's no different than Douche1Bag holding a crystal over his plate while reciting incantations of Universal Natural Law. His action harms no one, nor does the spoken prayer. This is simply an incident where someone attempted to make hay over Christian behavior, and utilized misinterpreted "separation" law to justify their action.

More Christian hate, further validated by it's defense emanating from haters.

Einstein, silent prayers are more valid than vocal ones, according to jesus. Read your bible dumb ass.

Hence my use of the phrase "doctrinal practice" rather than "Biblical edict". There's an untold number of "doctrinal practices" found in different sects that cannot be supported by "Biblical edict", yet their existence is doctrinally a component of the member's "required" rituals to obtain edification. Once again, I'm sure many atheist take offense with yarmulkes, yet asking a Jew to remove it is akin to de-sanctifying their God. And, once again, the mere presence of a yarmulke, like a spoken-word prayer, harms no one.

Try again.

[houndawg]

Einstein, silent prayers are more valid than vocal ones, according to jesus. Read your bible dumb ass.

Hence my use of the phrase "doctrinal practice" rather than "Biblical edict". There's an untold number of "doctrinal practices" found in different sects that cannot be supported by "Biblical edict", yet their existence is doctrinally a component of the member's "required" rituals to obtain edification. Once again, I'm sure many atheist take offense with yarmulkes, yet asking a Jew to remove it is akin to de-sanctifying their God. And, once again, the mere presence of a yarmulke, like a spoken-word prayer, harms no one.

Wrong again as usual, it must be so depressing to exist in our society yet be so completely cut off from understanding what's going on, although by now I suppose you're used to it....... So sad, yet my instinct to help the weak and feeble-minded forces me to make yet another attempt: It's only the christians, T'man, and only those christians who insist on spewing their recycled Egyptian sun god myth where nobody wants to hear it. Which is pretty much everywhere. They just can't understand that anybody that wants what they're selling will go get it on their own.

The so-called evangelicals are even more obnoxious and annoying than the Hare Krishnas.

[Col Hogan]

Hence my use of the phrase "doctrinal practice" rather than "Biblical edict". There's an untold number of "doctrinal practices" found in different sects that cannot be supported by "Biblical edict", yet their existence is doctrinally a component of the member's "required" rituals to obtain edification. Once again, I'm sure many atheist take offense with yarmulkes, yet asking a Jew to remove it is akin to de-sanctifying their God. And, once again, the mere presence of a yarmulke, like a spoken-word prayer, harms no one.

Wrong again as usual, it must be so depressing to exist in our society yet be so completely cut off from understanding what's going on, although by now I suppose you're used to it....... So sad, yet my instinct to help the weak and feeble-minded forces me to make yet another attempt: It's only the christians, T'man, and only those christians who insist on spewing their recycled Egyptian sun god myth where nobody wants to hear it. Which is pretty much everywhere. They just can't understand that anybody that wants what they're selling will go get it on their own.

The so-called evangelicals are even more obnoxious and annoying than the Hare Krishnas.

And yet, through your pretentious yammering, you fail to list how anyone is harmed…the key element to T-Man’s post…

I know, avoid the question…make fun of someone…and you win…

It’s an old, tired schtick...but it's all you have...

[Wedgebuster]

The fact that nobody still denies what has happened to the thousands and thousands of young boys who were lured into the confines of the "sanctuaries" of their beliefs, and in the control of the "fathers" of their flock, it ain't no wonder most prefer a well defined division between church and state.

First you allow praying "aloud", then you require it, and then along comes Father Ben Dover to ding all the little boys in the kiester.

Haven't we learned??

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Interesting philosophy: The FEDERAL government provides the meals, so separation of church and state applies, in their fucked up world. So THAT'S the logic behind the libs push for entitlement programs.....

We provide your paycheck (welfare)....you can't pray.
We provide your food (food stamps)....you can't pray.
We provide your healthcare....you can't pray.
We provide your retirement....you can't pray.

Using their logic there should be no praying on Navy ships or military bases, nor in any government building---ever. Yet there are churches, chapels, mosques and synagogues on just about every major military base in America.

Wasn't freedom of religion one of the tenets this country was founded on?

What a dumbfuck.

Gotta stop looking in the mirror, cant be good for your self confidence.

[travelinman67]

First you allow praying "aloud", then you require it, and then along comes Father Ben Dover to ding all the little boys in the kiester.

Haven't we learned??

Yup...you nailed it, Wedgie.

Praying aloud leads to molestation,




You left out "Americans" praying aloud WedebuStEr.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

So let me get this straight...some of you people honestly don't think people should be allowed to pray out loud before they eat because they're eating a meal paid for in part by government? Seriously?

I think this goes even beyond freedom of religion into the area of freedom of speech. I realize there is a lot of hostility towards religion out there. But good GRIEF.

No, its perfectly OK to pray outloud if your Muslim, Buddist, Jewish, but not OK if your a white christian.

[Grizalltheway]

So let me get this straight...some of you people honestly don't think people should be allowed to pray out loud before they eat because they're eating a meal paid for in part by government? Seriously?

I think this goes even beyond freedom of religion into the area of freedom of speech. I realize there is a lot of hostility towards religion out there. But good GRIEF.

No, its perfectly OK to pray outloud if your Muslim, Buddist, Jewish, but not OK if your a white christian.

Now who's playing the race card?

[death dealer]

So let me get this straight...some of you people honestly don't think people should be allowed to pray out loud before they eat because they're eating a meal paid for in part by government? Seriously?

I think this goes even beyond freedom of religion into the area of freedom of speech. I realize there is a lot of hostility towards religion out there. But good GRIEF.

I don't even think they should be forced to pray quietly or silently. It just can't be sponsored by the center or advocated by the center. In other words, they can pray, but not as an oragnized event that everyone is expected to participate in. It's so simple, yet some people have such a hard time understanding. Why?

[BDKJMU]

You're approaching the unreal (to steal a phrase from Geddy Lee).

I can go into the Library of Congress right now, pull out a Bible and read it aloud. If the center told them they had to pray in order to get the food, you'd be right. They cannot stop them from praying aloud any more than they can stop them from reading baseball boxscores aloud before eating.

While you're paying the legal fees of criminals and pedophiles in your church and helping top dollar lobbyist strip away the legal rights of victims of rape, I help finance these folks:

Freedom From Religion Foundation

Important legal successes include:
Winning the first federal lawsuit challenging direct funding by the government of a faith-based agency
Overturning a state Good Friday holiday and state employees.
Winning a lawsuit barring direct taxpayer subsidy of religious schools
Removing Ten Commandments monuments and crosses from public land
Halting the Post Office from issuing religious cancellations
Ending 51 years of illegal bible instruction in public schools

Foundation complaints have:
Halted prayer at public institutions, and public financing of nativity pageants and Easter service
Stopped direct subsidy to religious schools
Stopped Job Corps trainees from being assigned to work on a Catholic shrine
Ended a 122-year abuse of commencement prayers at a Top Ten University
Declared unconstitutional the creation of a state post to “assist clergy”

http://www.ffrf.org/legal/challenges/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yeah, and I support organizations like these that have a successful history of countering groups like your FFRF:
http://www.libertylegal.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.aclj.org/Default.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.thefire.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AZGrizFan]

"life of nothingness"

I love it. If someone chooses to reject the fairy tales their parents told them as a kid, their life if automatically meaningless. Good stuff.

Lay off him GATW, chances are quite high he's my son.

Might want to go eat a bullet.