Worry that Gulf oil spreading into major current

[ASUG8]

* This would bankrupt BP if they were to pay for all of this when all is said and done.

(a) So what exactly are the fishermen going to do??? Throw their nets over the oil? Not to mention, BP can't afford to hire a bunch of amateurs no matter how warm and fuzzy this story sounds.

(b) Again........BP can't afford to pay for the U.S. Coast Guard and U.S. Navy to help them........and exactly WHAT would they do (other than be taken away from their assigned duties like immigration control in Gulf Waters, possible rescue operations of stranded boats, and national security on the high seas?). Sorry.......let BP find PRIVATE contractors to help them!

(c) We ask so much of Great Britain..........

P.S. - I bet that Venezuela would help........but CONKS would throw a hissy fit.

(d) They have been providing expertise.......they've told us that we're f*cked if this continues unabated. What the hell else do you want them to do........dive down their themselves with a cork?

(e) Maybe that will help....???

So we should just bend over and take it in the ass? Is that your suggestion? I have heard nothing from you, as usual, but snide bitching. There's nothing we can do, fuck it, just let a monumental disaster happen while you chuckle to yourself. You actually enjoy this shit, don't you?

At least G8 thinks constructively.

Once again, the deafening sound of crickets coming from Jeffie - I throw out a non-partisan series of possibilities and Jeffie can't help being a leftist partisan hack. WAFJ

So by your reasoning, (a) fishermen are unable to deploy additional booms (not nets you idiot ) because they aren't trained, BP can't afford them, but your reasoning in point (b) above is for BP to hire independent contractors?

MJ - master of "ready, type, think".

[mainejeff]

So we should just bend over and take it in the ass? Is that your suggestion? I have heard nothing from you, as usual, but snide bitching. There's nothing we can do, **** it, just let a monumental disaster happen while you chuckle to yourself. You actually enjoy this ****, don't you?

At least G8 thinks constructively.

Once again, the deafening sound of crickets coming from Jeffie - I throw out a non-partisan series of possibilities and Jeffie can't help being a leftist partisan hack. WAFJ

So by your reasoning, (a) fishermen are unable to deploy additional booms (not nets you idiot ) because they aren't trained, BP can't afford them, but your reasoning in point (b) above is for BP to hire independent contractors?

MJ - master of "ready, type, think".

You threw out a bunch of suggestions that were pretty pitiful and most likely already thought of a million times over. Until they plug up the damn hole, there's not much you can do about a HUGE amount of oil floating freely at the whim of the tides, wind and weather. I agreed that maybe burning some more would help (if possible).

BP will NOT be paying for this fiasco.......you can COUNT on that.

[blueballs]

It has always occured to me that the most strident opponents of capitalism are a) those who are the least successful at it, or b) stand to gain or expand power by opposing it.

Since mainejeff isn't to my knowledge in any position of power it would seem like option "a" is a reasonable explanation of his fervent anti capitalism. However, one of the best things about capitalism is you always get another chance so the best course of action is to quit crying and get to work... and by work I mean real work, like dedicating one's brain, time, capital, and efforts into real success- not just punching a clock.

As for the disaster of course the federal government will wind up footing the bill for the majority of the cleanup/repair/mitigation. The feds bailed out all the big banks, insurance companies, and the domestic automakers... now it is big oil's turn.

To add to gannonfan's post, for so long there has been too much $$$ going into too many pockets on both sides of the aisle to whet any kind of appetitie for aggressive government oversight. Of course, that will change now as this becomes a bigger issue. As somebody who has had a 25+ year career in the mortgage industry and is a small business owner I wonder if Barney and the boys will be as aggressive towards BP as they have been towards my niche of the mortgage industry. I write that with tongure firmly planted in cheek because I already know the answer to that one...

[ASUG8]

Once again, the deafening sound of crickets coming from Jeffie - I throw out a non-partisan series of possibilities and Jeffie can't help being a leftist partisan hack. WAFJ

So by your reasoning, (a) fishermen are unable to deploy additional booms (not nets you idiot ) because they aren't trained, BP can't afford them, but your reasoning in point (b) above is for BP to hire independent contractors?

MJ - master of "ready, type, think".

You threw out a bunch of suggestions that were pretty pitiful and most likely already thought of a million times over. Until they plug up the damn hole, there's not much you can do about a HUGE amount of oil floating freely at the whim of the tides, wind and weather. I agreed that maybe burning some more would help (if possible).

BP will NOT be paying for this fiasco.......you can COUNT on that.

Once again you fail to see that this is an issue on two fronts - cleaning up the mess that has already taken place and stopping the current outflow from the pipeline. You'd get more satisfaction from watching the entire gulf turn black and stand on the ruined shorelines and point fingers instead of offering ANY constructive suggestion on correcting the problem. I think you truly do enjoy reading bad news, and that's a pretty sad commentary.

To your earlier post, for someone who admittedly isn't an oil cleanup expert you certainly have a lot of useless opinions refuting anything someone might come up with. I'm surprised you haven't blamed Bush or the lack of FEMA response yet. We're all waiting with baited breath for you to offer ANYTHING up as a solution, Yoda.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll talk to someone more engaging...

[mainejeff]

It has always occured to me that the most strident opponents of capitalism are a) those who are the least successful at it, or b) stand to gain or expand power by opposing it.

Since mainejeff isn't to my knowledge in any position of power it would seem like option "a" is a reasonable explanation of his fervent anti capitalism. However, one of the best things about capitalism is you always get another chance so the best course of action is to quit crying and get to work... and by work I mean real work, like dedicating one's brain, time, capital, and efforts into real success- not just punching a clock.

As for the disaster of course the federal government will wind up footing the bill for the majority of the cleanup/repair/mitigation. The feds bailed out all the big banks, insurance companies, and the domestic automakers... now it is big oil's turn.

To add to gannonfan's post, for so long there has been too much $$$ going into too many pockets on both sides of the aisle to whet any kind of appetitie for aggressive government oversight. Of course, that will change now as this becomes a bigger issue. As somebody who has had a 25+ year career in the mortgage industry and is a small business owner I wonder if Barney and the boys will be as aggressive towards BP as they have been towards my niche of the mortgage industry. I write that with tongure firmly planted in cheek because I already know the answer to that one...

Maybe you should worry more about yourself and less about me. Don't worry about what I am doing. I suck less out of the government system than 99.5% of the people that post on here.......GUARANTEED.

I take it that you are being productive blueballs? (not that I really give a sh*t).

[mainejeff]

Once again you fail to see that this is an issue on two fronts - cleaning up the mess that has already taken place and stopping the current outflow from the pipeline. You'd get more satisfaction from watching the entire gulf turn black and stand on the ruined shorelines and point fingers instead of offering ANY constructive suggestion on correcting the problem. I think you truly do enjoy reading bad news, and that's a pretty sad commentary.

To your earlier post, for someone who admittedly isn't an oil cleanup expert you certainly have a lot of useless opinions refuting anything someone might come up with. I'm surprised you haven't blamed Bush or the lack of FEMA response yet. We're all waiting with baited breath for you to offer ANYTHING up as a solution, Yoda.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll talk to someone more engaging...

OK......you WIN!!!! You know EVERYTHING! Congrats Appalachia CONK!

[houndawg]

Once again, the deafening sound of crickets coming from Jeffie - I throw out a non-partisan series of possibilities and Jeffie can't help being a leftist partisan hack. WAFJ

So by your reasoning, (a) fishermen are unable to deploy additional booms (not nets you idiot ) because they aren't trained, BP can't afford them, but your reasoning in point (b) above is for BP to hire independent contractors?

MJ - master of "ready, type, think".

You threw out a bunch of suggestions that were pretty pitiful and most likely already thought of a million times over. Until they plug up the damn hole, there's not much you can do about a HUGE amount of oil floating freely at the whim of the tides, wind and weather. I agreed that maybe burning some more would help (if possible).

BP will NOT be paying for this fiasco.......you can COUNT on that.

They will, however, be writing very large and very many checks to political campaigns this year. They should write some to SCOTUS for making it all possible.

btw, the oil has made it to the beaches of Key West now. Drill baby drill.

[bluehenbillk]

Sorry to divert back to the original topic, but if the oil did come up the East Coast, would anyone even notice it on the Jersey shore??

[Grizalltheway]

Sorry to divert back to the original topic, but if the oil did come up the East Coast, would anyone even notice it on the Jersey shore??

There's already enough oil in the water from these guys:

[BDKJMU]

Exxon Valdez ~250,000 Barrels

Gulf low estimate ~56,000 - 84,000 Barrels per day or 250,000 every 3-5 days.

From an article I just read:

BP, which was leasing the Deepwater Horizon rig, has said since the explosion that about 5,000 barrels -- or 210,000 gallons -- of oil have been gushing out of the well every day. The company says it reached that number using data, satellite images and consultation with the Coast Guard and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

Some scientists, however, believe the actual amount of oil may be larger. A researcher at Purdue University said BP's estimate is low and he believes about 70,000 barrels of oil are leaking each day. Steve Wereley, an associate professor in the mechanical engineering department, said he based his estimate on an analysis of video of the spill.

And Ian MacDonald, a biological oceanographer at Florida State University, has compiled data showing that as much as 1 million gallons of oil a day may be flowing from the well. As of May 7 -- more than a week ago -- MacDonald estimated that 13 million gallons had been spilled in the Gulf, according to FSU. By comparison, the 1989 Exxon Valdez spill in Alaska is estimated at 11 million gallons.

MacDonald used U.S. Coast Guard aerial overflight maps of the oil to estimate its surface area, "then applied standard guidelines to measure the thickness of the oil itself," the university said in a statement. "By combining the two, he was able to provide a revised estimate showing that the oil spill is far worse than originally believed."

Asked about the oil plumes, Doug Suttles, BP's chief operating officer for exploration and production, told CNN that BP is attempting to get the data "and see if that can help us in how we're responding. I can tell you we're holding nothing back, absolutely nothing back, as we try to fight this thing."

So, it's already well past the Valdez with no end in sight.

It may be well past the Valdez, or may not even be close yet. You have estimates of 4k barrels per day to close to 20k (Macdonald) for 4 weeks now. (BP now capturing about 2k barrels per day with siphon):
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... wD9FP8QLO1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So it looks like by now it could be anywhere from about 5-25 million gallons, and Exxon Valdez was estimated at 11 million.

But the Exxon Valdez was heavy crude. This is light, sweet crude. HUGE difference.

[AZGrizFan]

But the Exxon Valdez was heavy crude. This is light, sweet crude. HUGE difference.

so, by lighting it on fire, they're really just deep-frying the fish and fowl....

mmmmm....

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

BP will NOT be paying for this fiasco.......you can COUNT on that.

GOOD!

You democrats should have to pay for something you disagree with, its about time.

[mainejeff]

They will, however, be writing very large and very many checks to political campaigns this year. They should write some to SCOTUS for making it all possible.

So very true.

[JMU DJ]

GOOD!

You democrats should have to pay for something you disagree with, its about time.

You display ignorance of history again Alphie.

[GannonFan]

They will, however, be writing very large and very many checks to political campaigns this year. They should write some to SCOTUS for making it all possible.

So very true.

Yes, because up to this election cycle, thankfully, large corporations and large unions and other sources of huge amounts of cash (i.e. 527's) were never allowed to impact elections and candidates. It was like a Garden of Eden in terms of clean election politics until now. Yearning for the days of yore!!!

[YoUDeeMan]

Here comes the oil, Florida Keys / Atlantic Coast.

Anyone thinking that a couple of booms and ships is all it will take to clean this up better take a closer look at this photo. See the size of that spill...and the oil streak beaing taken for a ride in the current? Imagine a ship tossing out a mile or two of boom. How about 30 ships. 100 ships. Now toss in some wind and waves.

And the oil keeps coming...

[mainejeff]

Heading around the tip of Florida and up the South Atlantic coast.......landfall on the Outer Banks of NC???

If it does make it into the Atlantic, if there is any justice it will cross the Atlantic and make landfall on the British Coast.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

I think the areas that will be most affected by this spill will be The Florida Keys and the South East Florida Coast (check out the gulf current map below). I think the coral reefs off of the Keys and the delicate ecosystem that they create are in great danger (the only major barrier reef in North America and the third largest in the world). I'm not sure people are really considering the social and economic impact this spill will have in addition to the obvious pending evironmental catastrophy. This is gonna be bad, fellas.

[kalm]

Thanks to these lax PRIVATE INDUSTRIES *******, we are ****

Maybe we should be like Venezuela and nationalize the oil companies.

Here's what happened to the last guy who tried to nationalize BP's oil:

Mohammad Mosaddegh was the Prime Minister of Iran from 1951 to 1953 when he was overthrown in a coup d'état backed by the United States Central Intelligence Agency.

From an aristocratic background, Mosaddegh was an author, administrator, lawyer, prominent parliamentarian, and politician, famous for his passionate opposition to foreign intervention in Iran.

He is most famous as the architect of the nationalization of the Iranian oil industry, which had been under British control since 1913 through the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC) (later British Petroleum or BP). The Anglo-Iranian Oil Co. was controlled by the British government.[1] Mosaddegh was removed from power in a coup on 19 August 1953, organised and carried out by the United States CIA at the request of the British MI6 which chose Iranian General Fazlollah Zahedi to succeed Mosaddegh.[2] The CIA called the coup Operation Ajax[3] after its CIA cryptonym, and as the 28 Mordad 1332 coup in Iran, after its date on the Iranian calendar.[4] Mosaddegh was imprisoned for three years, then put under house arrest until his death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddegh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Bettter not fuck with "capitalism" and oil companies profits.

[kalm]

CWLP= City Water Light and Power, the CITY(govt) owned utility of Springfield, IL. Cheapest electric and water rates in Illinois. We want to make day to day cost of living cheaper for everyone? Make all utilities public.

I'd be fine with that at the city or state level. NEVER at the federal level. NEVER, I say! NEVER!!!!

Here's an example of a federal program that made a profit:

Home Owners' Loan Corporation
From Wikipedia
The Home Owners' Loan Corporation (HOLC) was a New Deal agency established in 1933 by the Homeowners Refinancing Act under President Franklin D. Roosevelt. Its purpose was to refinance homes to prevent foreclosure. It was used to extend loans from shorter loans to fully amortized, longer term loans (typically 20-25 years). Through its work it granted long term mortgages to over a million people facing the loss of their homes.

The HOLC stopped lending circa 1935, once all the available capital had been spent. HOLC was only applicable to nonfarm homes, worth less than $20,000. HOLC also assisted mortgage lenders by refinancing problematic loans and increasing the institutions liquidity. When the HOLC ended its operations and liquidated assets in 1951, HOLC turned a small profit.[1][2]

And I also seem to remember reading that the Resolution Trust Corporation (S&L crisis) also turned a profit as did France's bailout of Pugeout back in the 80's.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Our politicians and regulators are way too controlled by big corporation dollars. This ain't a democrat thing or a republican thing, as they are equally susceptible to the all-mighty corporate dollar, it is a systematic thing. Our government is broken and it has nothing to do with partisanship. It's all about GREED, and history tells us that every major empire that ever ruled in this world was brought down by GREED. You people who argue democrat vs. republican until you are blue in the face don't seem to recognize that you are really supporting the same candidate simply wrapped in a different package.

This oil spill is simply another indicator as to what is wrong with our government system. For decades, democrats and republicans alike were bought out by big oil dollars in favor of deregulation. Every other country in the world that allows oil drilling requires safety measures to be in place that we do not require. Why? We are a country based on greed and the here and now, without any consideration for future consequences. Big oil paid their way to operate in a hap-hazard way in U.S. waters and our short sighted and money hungry politicians allowed it to happen. Our system is in desperate need of fixing and should not be so controlled by the private sector. This is just one very prominent example of the corruption that takes place in our country. We need a change.

rant over, for now.

[JohnStOnge]

You know, people, at this point I, as someone who is having to spend a lot more time working on the oil spill thing than I'd like to, am going to say something:

It's bad. But at this point it's not THAT bad. One thing I have determined to date is that what has actually happened in terms of adverse consequences really isn't that much.

Now, that could change. I have my worries. But I'm getting more and more optimstic that the actual consequences of this thing won't be NEARLY as bad as what was feared.

That's usually the way it is, too. Not always. But usually.

[JohnStOnge]

I think the coral reefs off of the Keys and the delicate ecosystem that they create are in great danger (the only major barrier reef in North America and the third largest in the world). I'm not sure people are really considering the social and economic impact this spill will have in addition to the obvious pending evironmental catastrophy. This is gonna be bad, fellas.

My bet is that the coral reefs off the Florida keys will be fine. The Gulf ecosystem is "accustomed" to dealing with oil. Yes, this is a "spike." But I think that what you'll see is oxygen depletion in deep water as bacteria break down the oil. You will not see the coral reefs off the Florida keys destroyed.

We'll see.

[∞∞∞]

You know, people, at this point I, as someone who is having to spend a lot more time working on the oil spill thing than I'd like to, am going to say something:

It's bad. But at this point it's not THAT bad. One thing I have determined to date is that what has actually happened in terms of adverse consequences really isn't that much.

Now, that could change. I have my worries. But I'm getting more and more optimstic that the actual consequences of this thing won't be NEARLY as bad as what was feared.

That's usually the way it is, too. Not always. But usually.

Have to agree with this. As someone dealing with the direct numbers the field scientists are sending us from coastal land, it's really not that bad. Actually, there are no risks right now to coastal life, but precautions should still be made. But like JohnStOnge said, things can change, and quickly somtimes. It only takes ONE spike in any of the substances being tested to make it hazardous for ecosystems.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

I think the coral reefs off of the Keys and the delicate ecosystem that they create are in great danger (the only major barrier reef in North America and the third largest in the world). I'm not sure people are really considering the social and economic impact this spill will have in addition to the obvious pending evironmental catastrophy. This is gonna be bad, fellas.

My bet is that the coral reefs off the Florida keys will be fine. The Gulf ecosystem is "accustomed" to dealing with oil. Yes, this is a "spike." But I think that what you'll see is oxygen depletion in deep water as bacteria break down the oil. You will not see the coral reefs off the Florida keys destroyed.

We'll see.

Well as a best case scenario, that still don't look too good to me. The bacteria might break down the oil, but as you alluded to, they will break down the oxygen and create huge dead zones within the gulf. Not as photographed and publicized as a massive oil landfall event, but catastrophic none the less.

As for the coral reefs, that is a very delicate ecosystem and it won't take much to do a lot of harm. I do not share your optimism.