Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

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Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by travelinman67 »

Been saying it for decades...

...it's about GDP...

...from the manufacturing sector. We don't produce and export; we die.

Even the White House is finally acknowledging the Tman wisdom...

“We’ve got to go back to making things”

Posted by Katelyn Sabochik
May 26, 2010 at 05:46 PM EDT

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/05/ ... ing-things
Today, President Obama visited Solyndra, Inc. in Fremont California – a solar panel manufacturer that is building a new facility (and creating new jobs) thanks to funding from the Recovery Act. So far, construction of the new facility has created over 3,000 construction-related jobs and the new factory could create up to 1,000 long-term new jobs.
During his remarks at the Solyndra facility the President stressed the importance reviving our economy by spurring innovation and creating new manufacturing jobs:

"So we recognized that we’ve got to go back to basics. We’ve got to go back to making things. We’ve got to go back to exports. We’ve got to go back to innovation. And we recognized that there was only so much government could do. The true engine of economic growth will always be companies like Solyndra, will always be America’s businesses.
But that doesn’t mean the government can just sit on the sidelines. Government still has the responsibility to help create the conditions in which students can gain an education so they can work at Solyndra, and entrepreneurs can get financing so they can start a company, and new industries can take hold.

So that’s why, even as we cut taxes and provided emergency relief over the past year -- we also invested in basic research, in broadband networks, in rebuilding roads and bridges, in health information technology, and in clean energy. Because not only would this spur hiring by businesses -- it would create jobs in sectors with incredible potential to propel our economy for years, for decades to come. There is no better example than energy"...

...The Department of Energy closed a $1.4 billion dollar loan with Nissan North America to retool their facility in Smyrna to build advanced electric automobiles and batteries. Nissan has put that money to work by producing its all-electric vehicle, the LEAF, at its existing plant in Smyrna. The loan will also help Nissan will offer 150,000 electric vehicles to fleet and retail customers annually. Nissan has already created 250 jobs to retool the factory and anticipates the project may result in an increase of up to 1,300 jobs when full production is reached.
Great first step!! Acknowledge the economy will not stabilize by the govt. training 3 million high school dropouts how to install insulation and dual-pane windows in existing residential.

Obama touts stimulus, green jobs in Fremont

By Josh Richman
Oakland Tribune
Posted: 05/26/2010 12:07:21 PM PDT

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-new ... ck_check=1
Obama toured Solyndra Inc., a solar-panel company that last year received a $535 million loan guarantee through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act to build a huge manufacturing plant down the road from its existing facility. It was in that incomplete plant — which eventually will employ about 1,000 and whose construction has provided work to about 3,000 — that he spoke to a few hundred employees, construction workers and local dignitaries.

The plant shows that the promise of new energy isn't science fiction but "is happening right now. The future is here," Obama said.

The president's visit seems to be part of a full-court press on the economic recovery. Elsewhere Wednesday, Democrats were touting a new analysis by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office showing that the Recovery Act in 2010's first quarter has raised the nation's gross domestic product, lowered the unemployment rate, and increased the number of people employed by more than 1.2 million.

U.S. Labor Secretary Hilda Solis will be in Hayward today to visit Plastikon, a former NUMMI parts supplier that's working with federal, state and local governments to save jobs...

...Other nations can't be allowed to get ahead of us in securing the jobs and economic benefits of new, cleaner energy, Obama said.

He vowed to seek comprehensive energy and climate legislation — "We're going to try to get it done this year" — but said the nation has already started down the right path by investing in businesses such as Solyndra, whose new plant will produce enough solar panels over its projected life span to replace eight coal-fired power plants...

...Assembly Majority Leader Alberto Torrico, D-Newark, was at the Solyndra speech and called the president's visit "a great day for Fremont, for the Bay Area and for California" underscoring the region's and the state's green economic futures as well as a need for quality higher education required to train such a work force.

Torrico, a primary-election candidate for state attorney general, has been touting an oil-severance tax to fund higher education. After the president spoke Wednesday about lessening the nation's reliance on oil, Torrico said the tax would be "a short-term, much-needed investment in higher education." Nobody would be happier than he to see oil extraction end as the nation shifts to cleaner energy, Torrico said, but for now California should be taxing the way all other oil-producing states do.

Jim Wunderman, president and CEO of the Bay Area Council — a public-policy advocacy group consisting of executives from the region's top employers — called the president's speech "really encouraging."

"It's amazing to see the effects of the stimulus package taking root right here in the Bay Area," he said, in a way that will "not just produce dollars-and-cents results but also good results for our society — it's not often you get to do that."

State Sen. Ellen Corbett, D-San Leandro, said the president's visit and comments are "proving the naysayers wrong: Protecting the environment is good for the economy."
Utterly clueless.

Dear Mr. President;

Here's what's wrong with this picture:

1) If these were sound investments, why is the Federal Government having to provide the $535 million and $1.4 billion in loans to facilitate these factory upgrades and expansion?

2) Based upon the job projections, the Solyndra jobs will cost $535,000 per job, and Smyrna $1,000,000 per job TO CREATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why???????

You've just spent $1,935,000,000 taxpayer dollars to create 2,300 jobs. And you feel this is a "sustainable" plan to re-establish some of the 9,000,000 jobs lost over the past 2 years? Even though you call this a "loan", let me clue you in to something: If the govt. loaned me $2 billion to create 2,300 jobs, I'd take part of that loan, hire an army of lawyers, and utilize their services to forestall repayment...

...at least until AFTER I had paid off my vacation homes in Aruba, Costa Rica and Portofino, and stashed my first 5 years net in an offshore acct....After that, I could give a friggin F what the govt. did.

If the taxpayers are dumb enough to allow their govt. to spend $500,000 to $1,000,000 to create one job...well, a fool and their money...

3) In your remarks, you recognize, "Around the world, from China to Germany, our competitors are waging a historic effort to lead in developing new energy technologies. There are factories like this being built in China, factories like this being built in Germany. Nobody is playing for second place. These countries recognize that the nation that leads the clean energy economy is likely to lead the global economy. And if we fail to recognize that same imperative, we risk falling behind. We risk falling behind."

So why does it cost so much to construct new facilities, re-tool existing facilities and why does it take so long? And further, how do you expect America to be competitive with labor costs 3 to 9 fold over other industrialized nations?

If you really are sincere, Mr. President, answer these questions, and tell America what you propose to do to correct these problems.

Otherwise, go back to school and get out of the way of the Captains of Industry who KNOW what needs to take place to make America competitive again.

Sincerely,
Tman
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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by kalm »

So we spend $535 million which will create 1,000 permanent jobs. If those jobs average $50K each, that's $1 billion in wages over a 20 year period that will go back into the economy, not to mention the impact of the 3,000 temporary jobs for retooling, long term management compensation, ancillary spending, and profts.

I'm with you on manufacturing being the key, but you might be overlooking the economic impact those wages represent.

Bottom up.
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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by CitadelGrad »

kalm wrote:So we spend $535 million which will create 1,000 permanent jobs. If those jobs average $50K each, that's $1 billion in wages over a 20 year period that will go back into the economy, not to mention the impact of the 3,000 temporary jobs for retooling, long term management compensation, ancillary spending, and profts.

I'm with you on manufacturing being the key, but you might be overlooking the economic impact those wages represent.

Bottom up.
You're pulling those numbers out of your ass. How do you know the jobs created by the $535 million expenditure will be "permanent" or even be around after 20 years? By definition, stimulus expenditures are short-term. Sure, if they are government jobs, they might be around for a while because government always expands. It never contracts. However, are government jobs really that productive? Anyway, even if your numbers were correct, 20 years is a hell of a long time to wait for a very low return on "investment". The private sector does much better.
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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by travelinman67 »

kalm wrote:So we spend $535 million which will create 1,000 permanent jobs. If those jobs average $50K each, that's $1 billion in wages over a 20 year period that will go back into the economy, not to mention the impact of the 3,000 temporary jobs for retooling, long term management compensation, ancillary spending, and profts.

I'm with you on manufacturing being the key, but you might be overlooking the economic impact those wages represent.

Bottom up.
Why spend $50k per worker when they can outsource manufacturing for $10k?

Shareholders won't retain management. Until bay area unskilled labor costs drop, it would make more sense to locate manufacturing to another state, or at least, locate it within CA's central valley where it's $32k.

Why are they spending $535,000,000 to build a new factory when within a ten mile radius (Fremont, San Jose, Oakland) there are hundreds of vacant plants sitting idle?

Where are materials being sourced? (not in the U.S.) Foundry and heavy manufacturing has vanished from our soil. The new Bay Bridge is having the roadway sections constructed in China and shipped to Richmond,CA for installation: CA had no facility capable of constructing the sections cost-effectively.

Kalm, this "smoke and mirror" re-industrialization emanated from a Center for American Progress thinktank staffed by snot-nosed liberal ideologues who had NO experience building or managing a business. THIS is what I have been ranting about. Business has to be efficient to survive...and you CANNOT just throw money at a business plan and expect success. When the day is done, it's about balance sheets.
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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by kalm »

CitadelGrad wrote:
kalm wrote:So we spend $535 million which will create 1,000 permanent jobs. If those jobs average $50K each, that's $1 billion in wages over a 20 year period that will go back into the economy, not to mention the impact of the 3,000 temporary jobs for retooling, long term management compensation, ancillary spending, and profts.

I'm with you on manufacturing being the key, but you might be overlooking the economic impact those wages represent.

Bottom up.
You're pulling those numbers out of your ass. How do you know the jobs created by the $535 million expenditure will be "permanent" or even be around after 20 years? By definition, stimulus expenditures are short-term. Sure, if they are government jobs, they might be around for a while because government always expands. It never contracts. However, are government jobs really that productive? Anyway, even if your numbers were correct, 20 years is a hell of a long time to wait for a very low return on "investment". The private sector does much better.
These aren't government jobs, it's a private company. It's government providing stimulus to the failing private manufacturing sector due to 30 years of crappy trade policy. Globalization is failing and as Tman points out, countries like Germany and China who still produce things are about to hand us our lunch.
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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by kalm »

BTW, it's not in the interest of the private sector to create good paying jobs - which drive the economy. The private sector exists to make a profit and that is perfectly fine. Unfortunately, the private sector has been allowed by government to maximize those profits through outsourcing, while socializing the externalities. :ohno:
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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by CitadelGrad »

kalm wrote:
CitadelGrad wrote:
You're pulling those numbers out of your ass. How do you know the jobs created by the $535 million expenditure will be "permanent" or even be around after 20 years? By definition, stimulus expenditures are short-term. Sure, if they are government jobs, they might be around for a while because government always expands. It never contracts. However, are government jobs really that productive? Anyway, even if your numbers were correct, 20 years is a hell of a long time to wait for a very low return on "investment". The private sector does much better.
These aren't government jobs, it's a private company. It's government providing stimulus to the failing private manufacturing sector due to 30 years of crappy trade policy. Globalization is failing and as Tman points out, countries like Germany and China who still produce things are about to hand us our lunch.
Crappy trade policy? What specifically does that mean? If manufacturing is failing because of flawed trade policy, why would this venture succeed without a change in that policy? Is globalization actually failing? Don't China and Germany also exist in a global economy? How are they able to hand us our lunch if they have to function in such an unfavorable environment?
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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by native »

CitadelGrad wrote:
kalm wrote:So we spend $535 million which will create 1,000 permanent jobs. If those jobs average $50K each, that's $1 billion in wages over a 20 year period that will go back into the economy, not to mention the impact of the 3,000 temporary jobs for retooling, long term management compensation, ancillary spending, and profts.

I'm with you on manufacturing being the key, but you might be overlooking the economic impact those wages represent.

Bottom up.
You're pulling those numbers out of your ass. How do you know the jobs created by the $535 million expenditure will be "permanent" or even be around after 20 years? By definition, stimulus expenditures are short-term. Sure, if they are government jobs, they might be around for a while because government always expands. It never contracts. However, are government jobs really that productive? Anyway, even if your numbers were correct, 20 years is a hell of a long time to wait for a very low return on "investment". The private sector does much better.
Sometimes I think kalm is sincere, but most of the time I think he is just an "agent provocateur."

At least kalm is intelligent enough to BE an agent provocateur. Most of the lib low-lifes are so busy telling everyone else what to do that they can't figure out how to wipe their own arses.
Last edited by native on Thu May 27, 2010 9:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

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kalm wrote:
CitadelGrad wrote:
You're pulling those numbers out of your ass. How do you know the jobs created by the $535 million expenditure will be "permanent" or even be around after 20 years? By definition, stimulus expenditures are short-term. Sure, if they are government jobs, they might be around for a while because government always expands. It never contracts. However, are government jobs really that productive? Anyway, even if your numbers were correct, 20 years is a hell of a long time to wait for a very low return on "investment". The private sector does much better.
These aren't government jobs, it's a private company. It's government providing stimulus to the failing private manufacturing sector due to 30 years of crappy trade policy. Globalization is failing and as Tman points out, countries like Germany and China who still produce things are about to hand us our lunch.
Germany? Really? Do they know this? :lol:
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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by Chizzang »

Overt-disconnect
We cannot simultaneously embrace the Wal-Mart philosophy - the entire Republican Party spends every last breath telling us how good Wal-Mart is for each little town and location they move into by providing cheap goods... The free market economy will fix itself...

(simultaneously) When 97% of all items in Wal-Mart are made in China
Wal-mart is expanding faster than any retail organization in the world
Wall Mart is the 3rd largest company in the world

Pick one philosophy or the other boys...

Build stuff here
or
fully support Wal-Mart

But you can't do them both at the same time - they are not compatible
But I should remember the Republican Party is the War = Peace party



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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

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Chizzang wrote:Overt-disconnect
We cannot simultaneously embrace the Wal-Mart philosophy - the entire Republican Party spends every last breath telling us how good Wal-Mart is for each little town and location they move into by providing cheap goods... The free market economy will fix itself...

(simultaneously) When 97% of all items in Wal-Mart are made in China
Wal-mart is expanding faster than any retail organization in the world
Wall Mart is the 3rd largest company in the world

Pick one philosophy or the other boys...

Build stuff here
or
fully support Wal-Mart

But you can't do them both at the same time - they are not compatible
But I should remember the Republican Party is the War = Peace party



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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by travelinman67 »

Chi-zinn wrote:"Overt-disconnect
We cannot simultaneously embrace the Wal-Mart philosophy - the entire Republican Party spends every last breath telling us how good Wal-Mart is for each little town and location they move into by providing cheap goods... The free market economy will fix itself...

(simultaneously) When 97% of all items in Wal-Mart are made in China
Wal-mart is expanding faster than any retail organization in the world
Wall Mart is the 3rd largest company in the world

Pick one philosophy or the other boys...

Build stuff here
or
fully support Wal-Mart

But you can't do them both at the same time - they are not compatible
But I should remember the Republican Party is the War = Peace party"
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Apples and oranges (again), mon Hippie.

Wal-Mart was born from a deteriorating retail distribution model which incorporated increased supply-chain profit and specialty retailers. All Wal-Mart did was to modernize supply-chain, reduce "mid-stream" profit, and eliminate the "specialty" model. If the customer wants pork-rind-billed ballcaps with Egyptian cottom covers, Wal-Mart put the product out to bid...to whomever could deliver the quantity with the specs for the cheapest price. Period.

You (and the libs) ONLY hate Wal-Mart because their model rips the gonads off American labor unions.

If the American worker wants their product on Wal-Mart's shelves, then, rather than bitching about wages and benefits, the unions need to partner with manufacturers and WORK TOGETHER to reduce COGS so their product once again is competitive.

And that doesn't mean "cut workers to minimum wage"...

...it means "work together to reduce COGS".

The hint is in the first post.

Why does it cost $500,000,000 to create 1,000 jobs?
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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by kalm »

travelinman67 wrote:
Chi-zinn wrote:"Overt-disconnect
We cannot simultaneously embrace the Wal-Mart philosophy - the entire Republican Party spends every last breath telling us how good Wal-Mart is for each little town and location they move into by providing cheap goods... The free market economy will fix itself...

(simultaneously) When 97% of all items in Wal-Mart are made in China
Wal-mart is expanding faster than any retail organization in the world
Wall Mart is the 3rd largest company in the world

Pick one philosophy or the other boys...

Build stuff here
or
fully support Wal-Mart

But you can't do them both at the same time - they are not compatible
But I should remember the Republican Party is the War = Peace party"
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Apples and oranges (again), mon Hippie.

Wal-Mart was born from a deteriorating retail distribution model which incorporated increased supply-chain profit and specialty retailers. All Wal-Mart did was to modernize supply-chain, reduce "mid-stream" profit, and eliminate the "specialty" model. If the customer wants pork-rind-billed ballcaps with Egyptian cottom covers, Wal-Mart put the product out to bid...to whomever could deliver the quantity with the specs for the cheapest price. Period.

You (and the libs) ONLY hate Wal-Mart because their model rips the gonads off American labor unions.

If the American worker wants their product on Wal-Mart's shelves, then, rather than bitching about wages and benefits, the unions need to partner with manufacturers and WORK TOGETHER to reduce COGS so their product once again is competitive.

And that doesn't mean "cut workers to minimum wage"...

...it means "work together to reduce COGS".

The hint is in the first post.

Why does it cost $500,000,000 to create 1,000 jobs?
Been saying it for decades...

And still nobody is listening to you? ;)

It's a good question about the cost of the jobs. But the economic impact of those jobs can potentially pay for the expense. The same can be said for education where the upfront expense is balanced by the increased productivity and wages of an educated workforce.

As for Walmart, they are perfect example of what happens at the end of laissez-faire capitalism. You get a monopoly. Good for the Walton family and bad for domestic manufacturing, the environment, and wages.
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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by D1B »

kalm wrote:
travelinman67 wrote:
Apples and oranges (again), mon Hippie.

Wal-Mart was born from a deteriorating retail distribution model which incorporated increased supply-chain profit and specialty retailers. All Wal-Mart did was to modernize supply-chain, reduce "mid-stream" profit, and eliminate the "specialty" model. If the customer wants pork-rind-billed ballcaps with Egyptian cottom covers, Wal-Mart put the product out to bid...to whomever could deliver the quantity with the specs for the cheapest price. Period.

You (and the libs) ONLY hate Wal-Mart because their model rips the gonads off American labor unions.

If the American worker wants their product on Wal-Mart's shelves, then, rather than bitching about wages and benefits, the unions need to partner with manufacturers and WORK TOGETHER to reduce COGS so their product once again is competitive.

And that doesn't mean "cut workers to minimum wage"...

...it means "work together to reduce COGS".

The hint is in the first post.

Why does it cost $500,000,000 to create 1,000 jobs?
Been saying it for decades...

And still nobody is listening to you? ;)

It's a good question about the cost of the jobs. But the economic impact of those jobs can potentially pay for the expense. The same can be said for education where the upfront expense is balanced by the increased productivity and wages of an educated workforce.

As for Walmart, they are perfect example of what happens at the end of laissez-faire capitalism. You get a monopoly. Good for the Walton family and bad for domestic manufacturing, the environment, and wages.
Kalm wins again. Better luck next time TeaBag67 :lol: If anyone will listen to you. :rofl:
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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by travelinman67 »

D1B wrote:Burp
D, your epitaph is going to read, "Nevermind".

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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by houndawg »

travelinman67 wrote:
Apples and oranges (again), mon Hippie.

Wal-Mart was born from a deteriorating retail distribution model which incorporated increased supply-chain profit and specialty retailers. All Wal-Mart did was to modernize supply-chain, reduce "mid-stream" profit, and eliminate the "specialty" model. If the customer wants pork-rind-billed ballcaps with Egyptian cottom covers, Wal-Mart put the product out to bid...to whomever could deliver the quantity with the specs for the cheapest price. Period.

You (and the libs) ONLY hate Wal-Mart because their model rips the gonads off American labor unions.

If the American worker wants their product on Wal-Mart's shelves, then, rather than bitching about wages and benefits, the unions need to partner with manufacturers and WORK TOGETHER to reduce COGS so their product once again is competitive.

And that doesn't mean "cut workers to minimum wage"...
:ohno: You know, T, it isn't that you're wrong so often, it's that you're wrong so often at such length.

For the record, I hate Wal-Mart because every day they send money out of my community to Dogshit, Arkansas.


Everybody wants to cut productive workers wages, but nobody wants to cut management overhead. That's where you save money, T, indirect labor, overhead, bonuses for those who produce nothing..... :nod:
You matter. Unless you multiply yourself by c squared. Then you energy.


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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by travelinman67 »

houndawg wrote:
travelinman67 wrote:
Apples and oranges (again), mon Hippie.

Wal-Mart was born from a deteriorating retail distribution model which incorporated increased supply-chain profit and specialty retailers. All Wal-Mart did was to modernize supply-chain, reduce "mid-stream" profit, and eliminate the "specialty" model. If the customer wants pork-rind-billed ballcaps with Egyptian cottom covers, Wal-Mart put the product out to bid...to whomever could deliver the quantity with the specs for the cheapest price. Period.

You (and the libs) ONLY hate Wal-Mart because their model rips the gonads off American labor unions.

If the American worker wants their product on Wal-Mart's shelves, then, rather than bitching about wages and benefits, the unions need to partner with manufacturers and WORK TOGETHER to reduce COGS so their product once again is competitive.

And that doesn't mean "cut workers to minimum wage"...
:ohno: You know, T, it isn't that you're wrong so often, it's that you're wrong so often at such length.

For the record, I hate Wal-Mart because every day they send money out of my community to Dogshit, Arkansas.


Everybody wants to cut productive workers wages, but nobody wants to cut management overhead. That's where you save money, T, indirect labor, overhead, bonuses for those who produce nothing..... :nod:
Simpleton's view.

You didn't read my post. Constancy really is a good thing, HD.

First, the line of armored cars heading to Bentonville is relatively short. Wal-Mart, like every other business, balances debt load/capital expenses. They've run up billions in liabilities the past two decades...that will require constant servicing. If you don't understand that, Google "Capital Asset Expansion" and start reading.

Second, vilifying management as the socialist's boogeyman is as much myth as reality. The separation of class/wealth hyperbole is the method employed by socialists/marxists to inhibit capitalist success. Answer my question regarding cost to create jobs...fix THAT problem, then focus on labor costs.
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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote:BTW, it's not in the interest of the private sector to create good paying jobs - which drive the economy. The private sector exists to make a profit and that is perfectly fine. Unfortunately, the private sector has been allowed by government to maximize those profits through outsourcing, while socializing the externalities. :ohno:
Why not? It's the thing to do nowadays. Obama has outsourced our space program to the Russians, and is outsourcing our sovereignty to the UN. :coffee:
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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by Chizzang »

travelinman67 wrote:
Apples and oranges (again), mon Hippie.

Wal-Mart was born from a deteriorating retail distribution model which incorporated increased supply-chain profit and specialty retailers. All Wal-Mart did was to modernize supply-chain, reduce "mid-stream" profit, and eliminate the "specialty" model. If the customer wants pork-rind-billed ballcaps with Egyptian cottom covers, Wal-Mart put the product out to bid...to whomever could deliver the quantity with the specs for the cheapest price. Period.

You (and the libs) ONLY hate Wal-Mart because their model rips the gonads off American labor unions.

If the American worker wants their product on Wal-Mart's shelves, then, rather than bitching about wages and benefits, the unions need to partner with manufacturers and WORK TOGETHER to reduce COGS so their product once again is competitive.

And that doesn't mean "cut workers to minimum wage"...

...it means "work together to reduce COGS".

The hint is in the first post.

Why does it cost $500,000,000 to create 1,000 jobs?

It's a philosophical debate T-man,
Neither of us can see our model or suggestions put into place
Therefore we can only discuss what we see presently...

Liberals tend to HATE Wal-mart for a whole bunch of reasons - most of them are selfish... property values - environmental impact - unwashed masses - plastic empire - etc. etc.

Truth be told I have no issues with Wal-Mart personally, they are simply a HUGE indicator of a whole bunch of things... Wal-Mart is kind of like first observing a wetland, step one observation: if there are no birds immediately noticeable then you've got a whole series of other problems - so you know where to start your study

Wal-Mart is one of the largest companies in the world and exercises over a billion dollars a day in transactions on U.S. soil - the second closest company does less than 18% of that daily and thats Kroger who owns a few different models like QFC and Fred-Meyer etc.

We've done nothing but let Wal-mart monopolize and admire their capitalist agenda (as we should)
But as a result - this is what we get...
~No mom and pop retail stores
~mid-sized regional companies failing
~low paying jobs that the federal govt. covers the gap (food stamps welfare and other assistance)
~everything sourced in china - and I mean virtually everything 97%

Wal-Mart continues to be the top corporate beneficiary of state-run, taxpayer-funded programs - wal-mart uses none of it's billions of dollars of annual profits to cover it's employees essential needs like Healthcare or living wages

so the American tax payer does...
And this all makes sense based on the system we have in place - if you're wondering what's wrong with the American economy you must examine is largest retail company - that's where the answers will be found

question: Whats wrong
Answer: Look at how wal-mart operates it's system - it's not sustainable within the standard model that it occupies

:coffee:
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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by CitadelGrad »

Wal-Mart might not pay living wages to some of its workers, but a lot of their workers are high school students. I had three friends in high school who worked for Wal-Mart while in high school and earned enough to put themselves through college. Two of them moved away for college but were still able to work for Wal-Mart while in college. That allowed them to graduate from college with some money in the bank and a financial leg up on their peers.
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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by Chizzang »

CitadelGrad wrote:Wal-Mart might not pay living wages to some of its workers, but a lot of their workers are high school students. I had three friends in high school who worked for Wal-Mart while in high school and earned enough to put themselves through college. Two of them moved away for college but were still able to work for Wal-Mart while in college. That allowed them to graduate from college with some money in the bank and a financial leg up on their peers.
Fantastic news... Wal-Mart helps 3 kids go to school
While 40% of their 12 million employees are on federal assistance programs

Wal-mart is exactly what we deserve - just like ING Corp - Goldman Sachs - and Royal Dutch Shell & BP

We've built a system in which they are worshiped and protected
Each of the big three with more rights than any single American citizen - we serve them now... it's that simple

:coffee:
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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by kalm »

Chizzang wrote:
CitadelGrad wrote:Wal-Mart might not pay living wages to some of its workers, but a lot of their workers are high school students. I had three friends in high school who worked for Wal-Mart while in high school and earned enough to put themselves through college. Two of them moved away for college but were still able to work for Wal-Mart while in college. That allowed them to graduate from college with some money in the bank and a financial leg up on their peers.
Fantastic news... Wal-Mart helps 3 kids go to school
While 40% of their 12 million employees are on federal assistance programs

Wal-mart is exactly what we deserve - just like ING Corp - Goldman Sachs - and Royal Dutch Shell & BP

We've built a system in which they are worshiped and protected
Each of the big three with more rights than any single American citizen - we serve them now... it's that simple

:coffee:
They deserve their riches because they've succeed in the competitive market place. :coffee: ;) :rofl:
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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by CitadelGrad »

You're starting to get it.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

- Thomas Jefferson, in letter to William S. Smith, 1787

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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by SDHornet »

How did this thread go from smoke and mirrors to a losely translated version of that Wal-Mart South Park episode? :?
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Re: Obama Jobs: Smoke and Mirrors Revealed

Post by Chizzang »

SDHornet wrote:How did this thread go from smoke and mirrors to a losely translated version of that Wal-Mart South Park episode? :?

Here I'll help you out:
a) There are approximately 4,300 Wal-Mart's in America
b) They employ over 12 million Americans
c) They control a HUGE part of the U.S. Economy
D) They out source 97% of their goods from China
e) A HUGE percentage of their employees are subsidized by Federal Programs

America's largest employer perpetuates the Welfare state.... (Period)



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Q: Name something that offends Republicans?
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