Border Patrol Union Prez: It's OK To Kill Rock Throwers

[Rob Iola]

Found it on youtube.

[youtube][/youtube]

Yup - that's pretty damning - good call Travis...

[YoUDeeMan]

The kid was shot in the back of the head as he was running. Also video obtained by CNN contradicts what the agent said...

"This agent, who had the second subject detained on the ground, gave verbal commands to the remaining subjects to stop and retreat. However, the subjects surrounded the agent and continued to throw rocks at him. The agent then fired his service weapon several times, striking one subject who later died."

The agent wasnt surrounded by anyone.

The video shows two things:

1) The kid was not running away when he was shot.

2) The officer was not, technically, "surrounded"...at least in the immediate area.

However, there is no evidence that we was not having rocks thrown at him from one or many angles. In fact, there is clearly a large supply of rocks available from the area where the kid was shot and it sounded as though there were a lot of people in the area.

The kid took a chance and lost his life. Next.

In the end, the easiest way to avoid getting shot is to avoid crossing the border. If you have been in any confrontational situation, things can escalate quickly and perceptions can easily be subject to emotions. When a person is outnumbered and they fear they might be hurt, things can get out of hand. Don't put people in those situations and there won't be a problem.

I could never be a cop. If I were caught in a dark alley with a suspect who came at me, I would start shooting and would only stop breifly to reload. Hell, I'd bring rockets, bombs, gattling guns, flame throwers...whatever it takes to ensure I get out alive. No sense in looking back when you are dying and measuring whether you fought a fair fight.

[Rob Iola]

The kid was shot in the back of the head as he was running. Also video obtained by CNN contradicts what the agent said...

"This agent, who had the second subject detained on the ground, gave verbal commands to the remaining subjects to stop and retreat. However, the subjects surrounded the agent and continued to throw rocks at him. The agent then fired his service weapon several times, striking one subject who later died."

The agent wasnt surrounded by anyone.

The video shows two things:

1) The kid was not running away when he was shot.

2) The officer was not, technically, "surrounded"...at least in the immediate area.

However, there is no evidence that we was not having rocks thrown at him from one or many angles. In fact, there is clearly a large supply of rocks available from the area where the kid was shot and it sounded as though there were a lot of people in the area.

The kid took a chance and lost his life. Next.

In the end, the easiest way to avoid getting shot is to avoid crossing the border. If you have been in any confrontational situation, things can escalate quickly and perceptions can easily be subject to emotions. When a person is outnumbered and they fear they might be hurt, things can get out of hand. Don't put people in those situations and there won't be a problem.

I could never be a cop. If I were caught in a dark alley with a suspect who came at me, I would start shooting and would only stop breifly to reload. Hell, I'd bring rockets, bombs, gattling guns, flame throwers...whatever it takes to ensure I get out alive. No sense in looking back when you are dying and measuring whether you fought a fair fight.

The problem is that the officer appears to be firing into Mexico - if in fact the "river" constitutes the border. A US official killing a foreign national on their own soil is really, really bad, regardless of the circumstances.

[BDKJMU]

The video shows two things:

1) The kid was not running away when he was shot.

2) The officer was not, technically, "surrounded"...at least in the immediate area.

However, there is no evidence that we was not having rocks thrown at him from one or many angles. In fact, there is clearly a large supply of rocks available from the area where the kid was shot and it sounded as though there were a lot of people in the area.

The kid took a chance and lost his life. Next.

In the end, the easiest way to avoid getting shot is to avoid crossing the border. If you have been in any confrontational situation, things can escalate quickly and perceptions can easily be subject to emotions. When a person is outnumbered and they fear they might be hurt, things can get out of hand. Don't put people in those situations and there won't be a problem.

I could never be a cop. If I were caught in a dark alley with a suspect who came at me, I would start shooting and would only stop breifly to reload. Hell, I'd bring rockets, bombs, gattling guns, flame throwers...whatever it takes to ensure I get out alive. No sense in looking back when you are dying and measuring whether you fought a fair fight.

The problem is that the officer appears to be firing into Mexico - if in fact the "river" constitutes the border. A US official killing a foreign national on their own soil is really, really bad, regardless of the circumstances.

Doesn't matter. The "river" there is dry. The BP agent was in the US. If 30-40 feet away the Mexican kid (apparently blocked from view by the concrete bridge support is chunking rocks at the agent a few feet into Mexico, the agent is still justified in firing in self defense. The border there is an invisible line. One step you're in the US. The next step your in Mexico.

[BDKJMU]

Found it on youtube.

[youtube][/youtube]

Yup - that's pretty damning - good call Travis...

Nope. Seconds 1-6 the agent is at a distance in the center of the video. Seconds 6-11 (when the shots ring out/ he is at the right edge of the video. Again at the right edge for a second or 2 at seconds 13-15. Too distant to make out any rocks being thrown, and any suspect(s) on the far side of the concrete support pillar (where the kid fell after being shot) are blocked from view.

Not damning. Not undamning. Can't tell enough from the video. Like a typical knee jerk lib, Travis is ready to Monday morning QB and proclaim the agent guilty from a snippet of far away video before any investigation has been completed.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Yup - that's pretty damning - good call Travis...

Nope. Seconds 1-6 the agent is at a distance in the center of the video. Seconds 6-11 (when the shots ring out/ he is at the right edge of the video. Again at the right edge for a second or 2 at seconds 13-15. Too distant to make out any rocks being thrown, and any suspect(s) on the far side of the concrete support pillar (where the kid fell after being shot) are blocked from view.

Not damning. Not undamning. Can't tell enough from the video. Like a typical knee jerk lib, Travis is ready to Monday morning QB and proclaim the agent guilty from a snippet of far away video before any investigation has been completed.

It gives a picture of what happened but I didn't think that it was either damning or undamning either.

How people can say that the kid was shot in the back while running away is just stupid. He may have been, we don't know. Another thing that could have nappened is that he was shot near the eye from one report I saw. He could have also been hurling a rock and turning to run after the throw and the when the bullet struck him in the process of turning around making it appear like he was shot in the back. If the bullet struck him near the eye then it seems like he was not facing away from the officer.

It's just a little early to tell what actually happened unless you want to just let your emotions overtake you and fill all the blanks in for yourself.

[andy7171]

A person who throws rocks at a person with a gun takes dumbass to a whole new level.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

A person who throws rocks at a person with a gun takes dumbass to a whole new level.

That statement is nearly "Untouchable".

[AZGrizFan]

A person who throws rocks at a person with a gun takes dumbass to a whole new level.

Never bring a rock to a gun fight.

[Rob Iola]

Again, I think that the basic problem is shooting into Mexico - justified or not. Or look at it the other way around, what if some of these drug thugs start sniping at our border police - it's not like we can go storming into Mexico to nab them...

[AZGrizFan]

Again, I think that the basic problem is shooting into Mexico - justified or not. Or look at it the other way around, what if some of these drug thugs start sniping at our border police - it's not like we can go storming into Mexico to nab them...

What if? Like it doesn't happen on an almost daily basis?

[Bronco]

The Washington Times ^ | 28 Aug 2008 | Jerry Seper

The U.S. Border Patrol's largest union local has asked President Bush to put an end to the scores of Mexican military incursions into the United States that have put Border Patrol agents at risk of being injured or killed. "It is disgraceful that Border Patrol agents are put in harm's way and our government doesn't do everything reasonably within its power to protect us from marauding Mexican soldiers and others," said Edward "Bud" Tuffly II, head of Local 2544 of the National Border Patrol Council (NBPC) in Tucson.

"Without a forceful response to these illegal incursions, an agent will eventually be seriously wounded or killed. He said Mexican soldiers have made hundreds of incursions into the United States and that some of them resulted in agents coming under gunfire and being detained at gunpoint.

[AZGrizFan]

The Washington Times ^ | 28 Aug 2008 | Jerry Seper

The U.S. Border Patrol's largest union local has asked President Bush to put an end to the scores of Mexican military incursions into the United States that have put Border Patrol agents at risk of being injured or killed. "It is disgraceful that Border Patrol agents are put in harm's way and our government doesn't do everything reasonably within its power to protect us from marauding Mexican soldiers and others," said Edward "Bud" Tuffly II, head of Local 2544 of the National Border Patrol Council (NBPC) in Tucson.

"Without a forceful response to these illegal incursions, an agent will eventually be seriously wounded or killed. He said Mexican soldiers have made hundreds of incursions into the United States and that some of them resulted in agents coming under gunfire and being detained at gunpoint.

How do you "mistakenly" cross the border? I mean, the friggin RIVER defines the border for over HALF the length, and most of the rest of it has a great big fucking FENCE. If these fuckers are routinely coming onto OUR soil, that's an act of war. Blow 'em the fuck UP.

More reason as to why we need our troops on OUR border and not Afghanistan's.

[Bronco]

Mexican Troops Cross Border, Hold Border Agent
August 6, 2008 | Jim Meyers

Mexican troops crossed the border into Arizona and held a U.S. Border Patrol agent at gunpoint on Sunday, according to a published report.
Agents assigned to the Border Patrol at Ajo, Ariz., said the Mexican soldiers crossed the border into an isolated area southwest of Tucson and pointed rifles at the agent, who has not been identified.

The Mexicans withdrew after other American agents arrived on the scene, The Washington Times reports.
It’s not known why the troops crossed the border, but American law enforcement authorities have said that current and former Mexican soldiers have been hired to protect drug and immigrant smugglers.
“Unfortunately, this sort of behavior by Mexican military personnel has been going on for years,”

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Again, I think that the basic problem is shooting into Mexico - justified or not. Or look at it the other way around, what if some of these drug thugs start sniping at our border police - it's not like we can go storming into Mexico to nab them...

Hey I totally see that point and agree with it but there is nothing to keep weapons from being sent from their side, or ours. This case was a clear indicator of that because it happened both ways. The territorial pissings are definitely a problem on this one.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Mexican Troops Cross Border, Hold Border Agent
August 6, 2008 | Jim Meyers

Mexican troops crossed the border into Arizona and held a U.S. Border Patrol agent at gunpoint on Sunday, according to a published report.
Agents assigned to the Border Patrol at Ajo, Ariz., said the Mexican soldiers crossed the border into an isolated area southwest of Tucson and pointed rifles at the agent, who has not been identified.

The Mexicans withdrew after other American agents arrived on the scene, The Washington Times reports.
It’s not known why the troops crossed the border, but American law enforcement authorities have said that current and former Mexican soldiers have been hired to protect drug and immigrant smugglers.
“Unfortunately, this sort of behavior by Mexican military personnel has been going on for years,”

Kind of what I was inferring about the Mexican border patrol agents being on that scene so quickly and surrounding the shot boy and picking up whatever he had dropped. It is real possible that this was a drug run and there were several if not many there for "protection" in case things went awry as they did.

[Bronco]

Judicial Watch Uncovers New Documents Detailing Mexican Government Incursions
Judicial Watch ^ | June 7



U.S. Border Patrol Agents Subjected to 528 Assaults from January – June 2008, Statistics Show U.S. Border Incursions on the Rise in 2008 and 2009

(Washington, DC)

Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption, announced today that on March 22, 2010, it received records from Customs and Border Protection (CBP) concerning Mexican Government incursions and encounters along the U.S. border. The documents which are incomplete and do not contain all of the relevant data nonetheless indicate an increase in the number of incursions in 2008 and 2009. Judicial Watch’s analysis of the data shows:

•76 Mexican Government incursions from January 2008 to December 2009 (data missing from February 2009)

•50 Mexican Government incursions in 2008 alone, which is double the number of incursions from the previous year

•528 assaults against CBP agents from January –


(Excerpt) Read more at judicialwatch.org ...

[Bronco]

FBI: Mexican soldiers used rifles to chase off U.S. Border Patrol
FOX News ^ | 06/09/2010 | FOX News

CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico (AP) — Pointing their rifles, Mexican security forces chased away U.S. authorities investigating the shooting of a 15-year-old Mexican by a U.S. Border Patrol agent on the banks of the Rio Grande, the FBI and witnesses told The Associated Press on Wednesday.

Shortly after the boy was shot, Mexican soldiers arrived at the scene and pointed their guns at the Border Patrol agents across the riverbank while bystanders screamed insults and hurled rocks and firecrackers, FBI spokeswoman Andrea Simmons said. She said the agents were forced to withdraw.

"It pretty quickly got very intense over on the Mexican side," she said, adding that FBI agents showed up later and resumed the investigation, even as Mexican authorities pointed guns at them from across the river.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...

[Bronco]

ICE to make detention centers more humane
By SUSAN CARROLL HOUSTON CHRONICLE
June 8, 2010, 10:16PM

At the CCA facilities that have agreed to ICE's changes, detainees will see more variety in their dining hall menus and have self-serve beverage and fresh vegetable bars.

CCA also plans to offer movie nights, bingo, arts and crafts, dance and cooking classes, tutoring and computer training, the e-mail states.

Detainees also will be allowed four hours or more of recreation “in a natural setting, allowing for robust aerobic exercise.”
CCA also committed to improving the look of the facilities, such as requiring plants, fresh paint and new bedding in lower-risk units.