The Stock Market... watch this (here it comes)

[Ivytalk]

The stock market is for suckers.

We put what we had in the market into capital improvements and durable goods purchases for the property. As money comes we'll put it into things like a grid-tie system and a deep well. New tractor that can run on homemade bio-diesel......ten years and we'll off the grid entirely.
You folks are missing the big pic, it's time to be dropping out of the system, not reinvesting in the same rigged game.

But what about your retirement, dawg? Ya can't expect hosannas if you bequeath a green tractor to your kids!

[GannonFan]

The stock market is for suckers.

We put what we had in the market into capital improvements and durable goods purchases for the property. As money comes we'll put it into things like a grid-tie system and a deep well. New tractor that can run on homemade bio-diesel......ten years and we'll off the grid entirely.

You folks are missing the big pic, it's time to be dropping out of the system, not reinvesting in the same rigged game.

Well, if all you want society to do is be self-sustaining and static, then yes, eliminating financial systems where people can invest money would do that. But we've certainly been able to improve standards of living many times fold, even just over the past 100 years, because we do have a system of finance that allows people with ideas to find ways to get money to pursue those ideas and inventions. The answer isn't to have everyone form their own little bubbles and live within them.

[kalm]

The stock market is for suckers.

We put what we had in the market into capital improvements and durable goods purchases for the property. As money comes we'll put it into things like a grid-tie system and a deep well. New tractor that can run on homemade bio-diesel......ten years and we'll off the grid entirely.

You folks are missing the big pic, it's time to be dropping out of the system, not reinvesting in the same rigged game.

Well, if all you want society to do is be self-sustaining and static, then yes, eliminating financial systems where people can invest money would do that. But we've certainly been able to improve standards of living many times fold, even just over the past 100 years, because we do have a system of finance that allows people with ideas to find ways to get money to pursue those ideas and inventions. The answer isn't to have everyone form their own little bubbles and live within them.

But isn't that exactly what Chizzang is suggesting?

[native]

Well, if all you want society to do is be self-sustaining and static, then yes, eliminating financial systems where people can invest money would do that. But we've certainly been able to improve standards of living many times fold, even just over the past 100 years, because we do have a system of finance that allows people with ideas to find ways to get money to pursue those ideas and inventions. The answer isn't to have everyone form their own little bubbles and live within them.

But isn't that exactly what Chizzang is suggesting?

Yes, as a temporary emergency measure, while we shake out the suckers and con artists and until we can get competent political leadership.

[native]

The stock market is for suckers.

We put what we had in the market into capital improvements and durable goods purchases for the property. As money comes we'll put it into things like a grid-tie system and a deep well. New tractor that can run on homemade bio-diesel......ten years and we'll off the grid entirely.
You folks are missing the big pic, it's time to be dropping out of the system, not reinvesting in the same rigged game.

But what about your retirement, dawg? Ya can't expect hosannas if you bequeath a green tractor to your kids!

All the money goes to gin and weed. That big-talking propagandist will bogart his last joint and leave his kids nothing.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

But isn't that exactly what Chizzang is suggesting?

Yes, as a temporary emergency measure, while we shake out the suckers and con artists and until we can get competent political leadership.

Man does this thread really have to go down this road too? Sure that is the point that we will be better off if the Dem majority is flushed and we get some more Republicans in there to create grid lock so dumb shit can't fly though but it isn't because the Republicans are necessarily more competent, it's just that they will slow the Dems incompetence and not do as much harm with their own incompetence. It's about balancing the incompetence.

[kalm]

Yes, as a temporary emergency measure, while we shake out the suckers and con artists and until we can get competent political leadership.

Man does this thread really have to go down this road too? Sure that is the point that we will be better off if the Dem majority is flushed and we get some more Republicans in there to create grid lock so dumb **** can't fly though but it isn't because the Republicans are necessarily more competent, it's just that they will slow the Dems incompetence and not do as much harm with their own incompetence. It's about balancing the incompetence.

That's assuming there's really nothing wrong with the system, and that's a big assumption.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Man does this thread really have to go down this road too? Sure that is the point that we will be better off if the Dem majority is flushed and we get some more Republicans in there to create grid lock so dumb **** can't fly though but it isn't because the Republicans are necessarily more competent, it's just that they will slow the Dems incompetence and not do as much harm with their own incompetence. It's about balancing the incompetence.

That's assuming there's really nothing wrong with the system, and that's a big assumption.

No, I ain't assuming there is nothing wrong with the system at all. In fact I don't doubt one iota that there are things wrong with it. It is assuming that the system is going to fight back right now and that ain't gonna be good for some that are in the system.

[native]

Man does this thread really have to go down this road too? Sure that is the point that we will be better off if the Dem majority is flushed and we get some more Republicans in there to create grid lock so dumb **** can't fly though but it isn't because the Republicans are necessarily more competent, it's just that they will slow the Dems incompetence and not do as much harm with their own incompetence. It's about balancing the incompetence.

That's assuming there's really nothing wrong with the system, and that's a big assumption.

Yes, Brother Bear, with all due respect and my apologies to your excellent points and sensibilities, this thread must go down the political road, too. The assininity of kalm, dawg, et al must not go unanswered.

[kalm]

That's assuming there's really nothing wrong with the system, and that's a big assumption.

Yes, Brother Bear, with all due respect and my apologies to your excellent points and sensibilities, this thread must go down the political road, too. The assininity of kalm, dawg, et al must not go unanswered.

Please put your pom poms down for one second and explain how my above statement was political.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

That's assuming there's really nothing wrong with the system, and that's a big assumption.

Yes, Brother Bear, with all due respect and my apologies to your excellent points and sensibilities, this thread must go down the political road, too. The assininity of kalm, dawg, et al must not go unanswered.

I kinda thought that is where it was going.

We had a good run for a couple of pages though.

Oh and FWIW I don't think Kalm, Dawg, or any of the other Dem style posters (OK, there are a couple just not those guys) are asinine. Just differing perspectives on things and I ain't really in either group so I'm gonna bow out now....I think.

[kalm]

That's assuming there's really nothing wrong with the system, and that's a big assumption.

No, I ain't assuming there is nothing wrong with the system at all. In fact I don't doubt one iota that there are things wrong with it. It is assuming that the system is going to fight back right now and that ain't gonna be good for some that are in the system.

But there are actually moments in history where something needs to be done.

I'm not neccessarily counting on the Democrats to get it right either as they have a propensity for setting up social engineering programs full of untintended consequences and also appear to be as deeply in the pockets of Wall Street as the Republicans. But like it or not, some of the changes that really need to happen are on the regulatory side and I challenge you to name one Republican who is in any way for increased oversight and regulation of the "free market".

The status quo and grid lock aren't all always the right direction.

[mainejeff]

[kalm]

Yes, Brother Bear, with all due respect and my apologies to your excellent points and sensibilities, this thread must go down the political road, too. The assininity of kalm, dawg, et al must not go unanswered.

I kinda thought that is where it was going.

We had a good run for a couple of pages though.

Oh and FWIW I don't think Kalm, Dawg, or any of the other Dem style posters (OK, there are a couple just not those guys) are asinine. Just differing perspectives on things and I ain't really in either group so I'm gonna bow out now....I think.

Don't bow out now, it was just getting interesting, and we need you fence sitters too.

[native]

Yes, Brother Bear, with all due respect and my apologies to your excellent points and sensibilities, this thread must go down the political road, too. The assininity of kalm, dawg, et al must not go unanswered.

Please put your pom poms down for one second and explain how my above statement was political.

Perhaps I read something into your post, kalm.

When you imply that something is wrong with the system, based on your hundreds of previous posts, it means that consitutional republican government and free enterprise themselves are fatally flawed, and that anything other than evolution from New Deal Progressivism to communism is "wrong" and needs to be corrected by government elites.

[kalm]

Please put your pom poms down for one second and explain how my above statement was political.

Perhaps I read something into your post, kalm.

When you imply that something is wrong with the system, based on your hundreds of previous posts, it means that consitutional republican government and free enterprise themselves are fatally flawed, and that anything other than evolution from New Deal Progressivism to communism is "wrong" and needs to be corrected by government elites.

Communism doesn't work Native. Neither does monopo-feudal-libertario-nannyism. The answer is in the middle and we are still way off to the right of middle.

[native]

No, I ain't assuming there is nothing wrong with the system at all. In fact I don't doubt one iota that there are things wrong with it. It is assuming that the system is going to fight back right now and that ain't gonna be good for some that are in the system.

But there are actually moments in history where something needs to be done.

I'm not neccessarily counting on the Democrats to get it right either as they have a propensity for setting up social engineering programs full of untintended consequences and also appear to be as deeply in the pockets of Wall Street as the Republicans. But like it or not, some of the changes that really need to happen are on the regulatory side and I challenge you to name one Republican who is in any way for increased oversight and regulation of the "free market".

The status quo and grid lock aren't all always the right direction.

I agree that the status quo and gridlock are not always the right direction, but "Increased" regulation does not provide "competent" or even "improved" regulation. That out of tune song is extremely tiresome.

I am not a Palin fan, but ironcally, she did successfully stand up to big oilas governor of Alaska.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/29/news/ne ... /index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[native]

... Just differing perspectives on things and I ain't really in either group ...

Rapists have a different perspective on things...
Murderers have a different perspective on things...
Burglars have a different perspective on things...

There is a fundamental disconnect with our birthright as Americans when the political elites start thinking that fundamental human liberties come only from governments. The power of government comes only from the people, not the other way around.

I could put up with kalm's and dawg's "perspective" if they weren't so dead set on stealing from their neighbors to acheive their political ends.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

No, I ain't assuming there is nothing wrong with the system at all. In fact I don't doubt one iota that there are things wrong with it. It is assuming that the system is going to fight back right now and that ain't gonna be good for some that are in the system.

But there are actually moments in history where something needs to be done.

I'm not neccessarily counting on the Democrats to get it right either as they have a propensity for setting up social engineering programs full of untintended consequences and also appear to be as deeply in the pockets of Wall Street as the Republicans. But like it or not, some of the changes that really need to happen are on the regulatory side and I challenge you to name one Republican who is in any way for increased oversight and regulation of the "free market".

The status quo and grid lock aren't all always the right direction.

Why the fuck would I name one republican that is for oversight. That ain't my bag to defend.

There are moments in history for doing shit. I ain't even saying that isn't one of them. What I was clearly saying is that people are/were on this thread trying to figure out how to get out the way of this steamroller without getting crushed. If you go look at what I said again you'll see that I am not advocating nor defending any of that.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I kinda thought that is where it was going.

We had a good run for a couple of pages though.

Oh and FWIW I don't think Kalm, Dawg, or any of the other Dem style posters (OK, there are a couple just not those guys) are asinine. Just differing perspectives on things and I ain't really in either group so I'm gonna bow out now....I think.

Don't bow out now, it was just getting interesting, and we need you fence sitters too.

That's the beauty of some of you mafuckers. You think their is one or the other and if you don't choose one then you are a fence sitter.

[AZGrizFan]

The stock market is for suckers.

We put what we had in the market into capital improvements and durable goods purchases for the property. As money comes we'll put it into things like a grid-tie system and a deep well. New tractor that can run on homemade bio-diesel......ten years and we'll off the grid entirely.

You folks are missing the big pic, it's time to be dropping out of the system, not reinvesting in the same rigged game.

Whodathunk it? Houndawg and T-Man, separated at birth...

[kalm]

But there are actually moments in history where something needs to be done.

I'm not neccessarily counting on the Democrats to get it right either as they have a propensity for setting up social engineering programs full of untintended consequences and also appear to be as deeply in the pockets of Wall Street as the Republicans. But like it or not, some of the changes that really need to happen are on the regulatory side and I challenge you to name one Republican who is in any way for increased oversight and regulation of the "free market".

The status quo and grid lock aren't all always the right direction.

Why the **** would I name one republican that is for oversight. That ain't my bag to defend.

There are moments in history for doing ****. I ain't even saying that isn't one of them. What I was clearly saying is that people are/were on this thread trying to figure out how to get out the way of this steamroller without getting crushed. If you go look at what I said again you'll see that I am not advocating nor defending any of that.

Newsflash Ursus: We have a two party system, and that sucks. I wasn't asking you to defend Republicans, but you were agreeing with Chizzang and the notion of Republican victory producing gridlock a few posts ago. That's at odds with your acknowledment of the need for "doing shit."

Truth be told, I'm far more interested in fixing what's fucked up than who does it. That' s probably why I will vote for Ron Paul next election.

[native]

Perhaps I read something into your post, kalm.

When you imply that something is wrong with the system, based on your hundreds of previous posts, it means that consitutional republican government and free enterprise themselves are fatally flawed, and that anything other than evolution from New Deal Progressivism to communism is "wrong" and needs to be corrected by government elites.

Communism doesn't work Native. Neither does monopo-feudal-libertario-nannyism. The answer is in the middle and we are still way off to the right of middle.

You are dangerous to liberty and prosperity, kalm.

[native]

...Oh and FWIW I don't think Kalm, Dawg, or any of the other Dem style posters (OK, there are a couple just not those guys) are asinine. Just differing perspectives on things and I ain't really in either group so I'm gonna bow out now....I think.

FWIW your opinion counts a great deal, Ursus. I realize you are a good and decent person and that you are thinking and communicating tactically and trying to be practical.

Maybe you do not feel threatened by the nonsense spouted by dawg and kalm, but you are turning a blind eye to the consequences - especially the long term consequences.

[travelinman67]

Gentlemen,
May I suggest a few things rather quickly:

As you are all well aware (see recent Maxine Waters actions) the Obama administration might actually attempt to "correct" what should probably never even be spoken of, much less meddled with. Might I sincerely suggest that you pull basically all of your money out of the market over the next few weeks

convert it into cash and put it in a little 6 month 3 to 5 % CD (as much of it as you can get out of the market and into a cash deposit situation with a fixed rate)

Over the next 6 months the the Banks and institutions that control our federal Reserve system and Wall Street are going to Crash The Market fairly severely - so as to effect electoral change - once this has happened the market will be put back in place and allowed to recover

A few points:
1) a crashed market will insure we get some Republicans elected
2) Republicans will bring balance back (grid lock) which is essential
3) And Street reform and banking reform will be put on the back burner

Trust me on this... get your money out fairly soon and convert it into cash CD's

after 6 or 8 months you can start loading it back in and re-building

Thank me later... by election time the market will be at 780 (I'm taking wagers on any disbelievers)

The Hippie is correct. I've had several meetings/conversations with advisers and "serious" investors about this going back to January, and all agree a government-regulatory-response predicated contraction will occur and monetarily be more severe than 2008. Further, the "stabilization" timeline will (coincidentally) match the Presidential election cycle.

Like Hippie suggested, confidence level is high: You've been warned.