Who Replaces Boise State in the WAC?

[Fresno St. Alum]

I'm PRETTY sure that the WAC footprint is considerably larger than the Sun Belt, given that Hawaii is in the WAC.

I don't count HI; they're like a joker. They would skew ANY conference. Compare the Sun Belt to the continental WAC, and one sees how crazy spread out the Belt is. The only conference I know of worse than the Sun Belt in this regard is the Great West with everyone from the Dakotas to Houston Baptist to the suckiest program known to man, NJIT.

Even if you don't count Hawaii, we still have to go there and it's freakin far

[Grizalltheway]

I'm PRETTY sure that the WAC footprint is considerably larger than the Sun Belt, given that Hawaii is in the WAC.

I don't count HI; they're like a joker. They would skew ANY conference. Compare the Sun Belt to the continental WAC, and one sees how crazy spread out the Belt is. The only conference I know of worse than the Sun Belt in this regard is the Great West with everyone from the Dakotas to Houston Baptist to the suckiest program known to man, NJIT.

Great logic, SuperTranny. "I don't count Hawaii, because they nullify my argument."

[Mike Johnson]

Even not counting Hawaii, I would say the WAC is bigger. Looking at Google maps for the universities furthest apart in some conferences, I get:

university of idaho moscow id to louisiana tech 2,236 mi 1 day 11 hours
florida international university to university of denver 2,089 mi 1 day 10 hours
university of east carolina to university of texas-el paso 1,917 mi 1 day 7 hours

Even:
san jose state university to louisiana tech university 1,948 mi1 day 8 hours
is slightly further than East Carolina to UTEP.

[AZGrizFan]

I'm PRETTY sure that the WAC footprint is considerably larger than the Sun Belt, given that Hawaii is in the WAC.

I don't count HI; they're like a joker. They would skew ANY conference. Compare the Sun Belt to the continental WAC, and one sees how crazy spread out the Belt is. The only conference I know of worse than the Sun Belt in this regard is the Great West with everyone from the Dakotas to Houston Baptist to the suckiest program known to man, NJIT.

Well, if we arbitrarily get to throw out a school because it destroys your argument, then why not use the same fucked up logic for the SunBelt?

[SuperHornet]

Leave it to AZ to be more respectful with a refutation than GATW. I guess I should have expected that.

[Fresno St. Alum]

If you are throwing out schools Denver should be up there, they've been trying to get into the WCC and Big Sky (no football=no invite) and they haven't settled for the Summit yet. Denver is actually in violation of the Belt by-laws on # of core sports in the conf. The Belt hasn't decided to get rid of them yet.

Hawaii seems to be staying the WAC and not going anywhere unless the MWC decided it needed 4 or 5 schools so you can't throw them out.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Leave it to AZ to be more respectful with a refutation than GATW. I guess I should have expected that.

When I saw your reply the other day it was as bat shit crazy as a lot of other shit you put up so I just had a chuckle at your reasoning and let it lay there in all it's glory.

I love ya you crazy SOB but at some point you are just gonna have to look at someone close to you and say "please...help me!".

You're welcome.

[SuperHornet]

FSA: The one thing I can find against a Denver WAC candidacy is that they are currently I-AAA. The WAC may not want a non-football team. However, an NDSU fan came on SacBuzz stating that to guard against LA Tech leaving, the WAC may want to balance Sac with one of the following: Seattle, Denver, or Utah Valley (recently reclassified as a so-called "university"). In my mind, should the WAC choose to take a I-AAA team, Denver stands hands above these others, if only because they sponsor gymnastics, which is a key WAC minor sport. About the only I-AAA school in the entire western region that could compete with a Denver candidacy, IMO, would be UOP, but they (at least the fans, anyway) are focused on either staying in the Big West, moving to the WCC, or scamming a slot in the Pac-12 (the last two are pipe dreams, IMO).

[SloStang]

Key WAC minor sport. To funny. I bet gymnastics is the key to all this conference shuffling. The Big-10 really was after Nebraska's gymnatics team and the Pac-10 wanted Texas' gymnastic team.

[Mike Johnson]

Key WAC minor sport. To funny. I bet gymnastics is the key to all this conference shuffling. The Big-10 really was after Nebraska's gymnatics team and the Pac-10 wanted Texas' gymnastic team.

The Pac 10 did want Utah's gymnastic team--Commissioner Scott said so. But, then again the Pac 10 likes national championships and Utah's gymnastic team brings quite a few.

The six WAC gymnastics schools are Boise State, Cal State-Sacramento, Cal State-Fullerton, San Jose State, Utah State, and Southern Utah. It seems they will take anybody in gymnastics and they don't have to be in the conference in other sports. So, I doubt gymnastics will be much of an issue for the WAC.

[Mike Johnson]

Utah Valley (recently reclassified as a so-called "university").

Yes, their designation changed from a state college in 2008 to university to reflect graduate programs and expanded academic missions, kind of like what happened to CSU-Sacramento in 1972. Both are masters universities.

However, I would rather have UVU's 8500-seat McKay Events Center than the 1200-seat gym Sac State plays basketball in, or the 2500-seat Brent Brown Ballpark instead of the 1267-seat Hornet Stadium--the UVU facilities not only being larger, but more state of the art. And someday, this university of 26,000 students will have a football team, the only advantage I see in CSU-Sacramento over UVU these days.

[frinq]

I respect and honor your loyalty, Mike, but there's forty years of difference in building a university between UVU and Sac State. Yes, you've got good new sports facilities (where'd you get the money for them?!), but your faculty were most of them hired as community college teachers. It takes a long time to build a reputable four year and graduate tenured faculty - probably around forty years. By the way, the Cal State system is in theory limited to MAs. Does Utah put the same restriction on its regional colleges? If not, you might catch up faster. If you have the money.

[Mike Johnson]

UVU hasn't been a community college for nearly 20 years. Most of the professors were hired well after it was a community college. The college had almost 40% upper division students when it moved from competing in the NJCAA to NCAA Division I in 2001. Personally, I thought it should have moved up years earlier--perhaps to NCAA Division II. And when it became a university, it hired a substantial number of PhDs as that was one of the requirements laid on by the state and the regional accrediting body--the state providing a substantial funding increase for that purpose. I doubt as many as 5% of the faculty were hired as community college instructors.

It is true that CSU-Sacramento is 36 years ahead of UVU, but would they have thought of their school as a "so-called university" then?

UVU has nice facilities largely because of significant donations from boosters--it is the only public institution in a metro area of almost 600,000 people (yes, I know Sacramento is a lot larger, only that they do have a lot of community support and a number of multi-million dollar donations). It also helps that professional sports teams use their facilities--like the Utah Flash of the NBA D League.

[frinq]

LOL There were a lot of colleges coming on line as "universities" 36 years ago, Sac State being one of them, and all of them were considered "so-called universities" by the established universities. They were scorned because of their lack of PHD programs, but also because they were challenging the funding base of the establishment. PSU came on then as a "university", and UO nd OSU did all they could to keep us down. I suspect that Utah and Utah State see you in the same light. Since then we've added the graduate programs and turn out 100 or so PhDs a year. UO and OSU now see us - sort of - as a university. You'll do the same thing as you broaden out your MA programs. But will you add the PhD degrees? That's why I asked if Utah like Cal limits the state ... universities... to MAs. If there are no programmatic caps on you, then the sky - or rather, the funding - is the limit. You might grow into Utah's third full-fledged university.

What's this have to do with athletics? Not much. Public perception. Politics. I'd be surprised if the WAC were to add a non-doctoral program university. The Pac-10 would never do it. It's all about TV and money these days, but old-time biases are still there.

[Herky]

UVU hasn't been a community college for nearly 20 years. Most of the professors were hired well after it was a community college. The college had almost 40% upper division students when it moved from competing in the NJCAA to NCAA Division I in 2001. Personally, I thought it should have moved up years earlier--perhaps to NCAA Division II. And when it became a university, it hired a substantial number of PhDs as that was one of the requirements laid on by the state and the regional accrediting body--the state providing a substantial funding increase for that purpose. I doubt as many as 5% of the faculty were hired as community college instructors.

It is true that CSU-Sacramento is 36 years ahead of UVU, but would they have thought of their school as a "so-called university" then?

UVU has nice facilities largely because of significant donations from boosters--it is the only public institution in a metro area of almost 600,000 people (yes, I know Sacramento is a lot larger, only that they do have a lot of community support and a number of multi-million dollar donations). It also helps that professional sports teams use their facilities--like the Utah Flash of the NBA D League.

[Fresno St. Alum]

SH, don't go to NDSU for your WAC expansion with a non fb school. The WAC would rather add any school w/ fb in the west of the miss over taking Denver. Benson has said this. Hybrid is not the future of FBS. Sun Belt wants to be rid of Denver, the BE hybrid is a death trap for the fb schools. Everyone else is smart enough to leave out the non fb schools.

Mike UVU will be too late. WAC needs someone now. Fresno St. and Hawaii (fresno bee, hawaii paper) said, this WAC (2011 and beyond) isn't what they were thinking and will re-evaluate whether or not it would be better to go Indy.

[JBB]

PSU seems to be a strong consideration:

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/argus/ni ... _coll.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Western Athletic Conference has a void to fill with the loss of Boise State, and to hear some western media outlets tell it, Portland State is a prime candidate for the WAC’s replacement plans.

[Mike Johnson]

Fresno State Alum, I wasn't arguing that UVU will or should go to the WAC, rather defending one of my favorite schools from an unnecessary cheap attack. That said, I may have gone too far in the defense of UVU and I apologize for distracting the thread. I should be focused more on simply enjoying my own alma mater getting into the Pac 10, rather than supporting the little brother to the south.

I continue to believe that North Texas, if they are willing, is the WAC's best bet for one team. Already in Division I-FBS and inside the WAC's footprint. And it could be a fit. Perhaps, Denver and North Texas both, to give 9 football and 10 in most other sports.

[Fresno St. Alum]

Fresno State Alum, I wasn't arguing that UVU will or should go to the WAC, rather defending one of my favorite schools from an unnecessary cheap attack. That said, I may have gone too far in the defense of UVU and I apologize for distracting the thread. I should be focused more on simply enjoying my own alma mater getting into the Pac 10, rather than supporting the little brother to the south.

I continue to believe that North Texas, if they are willing, is the WAC's best bet for one team. Already in Division I-FBS and inside the WAC's footprint. And it could be a fit. Perhaps, Denver and North Texas both, to give 9 football and 10 in most other sports.

They talk a lot of shit on here. I know you are well aware of UVU and where they can go in D-I w and w/o football.

UNT turned us down back in 2004 I believe. Even if we got UNT, no way could I see a non fb member being #10. Texas St. or Sac St. or Cal Poly etc would get looked at over Denver.

[SuperHornet]

FSA: I'm not necessarily arguing for the WAC to take a I-AAA team. I'm just mentioning that I'd heard that they were considering it and these were the ones under consideration. Among the three, Denver has GOT to have the most sway, unless UOP joins the mix (the fans want nothing to do with the WAC, however; it's WCC or bust for them). Of course, as you say, a football school is the likely choice.

I'm inclined to agree with Johnson about the viability of a North Texas bid. They have the best offensive coordinator known to man, and would be a good fit. Here's my prospective list:

1. Sac State (mostly for the SJ-Reno corridor with Fresno being a major benefit)
2. North Texas (for the TX location)
3. Cow Poly (A good pair for Fresno)
4. Denver (if they go I-AAA)
5. Montana (the internal Boise-Idaho style politics are a major detriment, however)

I believe that Montana would have the best success out the gate, but the internal acrimony might hamper their move. A call from the MWC, however, (not sure how likely that is at this point, though) might force Montana's hand. If Fresno and/or Reno leave, that would argue against a Sac move. UNT is looking pretty good for this, though, especially given the massive speculation that the WAC is looking for TWO due to the predicted departure of LA Tech.

EDIT: I'd forgotten about Cow Poly, always a good choice for football. Thanks to FSA for the reminder.

[frinq]

Hey, Super, I notice that you don't even mention the possibility of PSU. Why is that? Consider the last three years as an anomaly in PSU footbal; we've got a new coach now. In the past we've played to the upper middle of the BSC, the same as or better than Sac State. Without checking I'd say we've played even with Cal Poly and Davis - at least as well as Sac State. In terms of academics and doctoral programs we're close to even with DavisIn terms of funding we're all evenly underfunded. So I repeat, why don't you mention PSU? Do you know something I don't?

[Fresno St. Alum]

Hey, Super, I notice that you don't even mention the possibility of PSU. Why is that? Consider the last three years as an anomaly in PSU footbal; we've got a new coach now. In the past we've played to the upper middle of the BSC, the same as or better than Sac State. Without checking I'd say we've played even with Cal Poly and Davis - at least as well as Sac State. In terms of academics and doctoral programs we're close to even with DavisIn terms of funding we're all evenly underfunded. So I repeat, why don't you mention PSU? Do you know something I don't?

Someone needs to clue Fring in on SH and tell him to breathe . Don't worry man the WAC is well aware of Portland St.

[Green Cookie Monster]

So I repeat, why don't you mention PSU? Do you know something I don't?

$10M athletic budget? Where you gonna find an additional $10M/year in this economy?
Would be my guess.

[Green Cookie Monster]

double post, no delete?

[SuperHornet]

So I repeat, why don't you mention PSU? Do you know something I don't?

$10M athletic budget? Where you gonna find an additional $10M/year in this economy?
Would be my guess.

That's pretty much it, frinq. I don't doubt the potential success, particularly with The Goddess there, but the budget thing sure seems to get in the way. Sac seems to be already in the mix as far as budget goes....