kalm wrote:
And they were bailed out for two reasons and by two different administrations because 1) They were too big to fail due to right wing monopoly capitalism under the guise of the free market. 2) Corporatism - the main thrust of this thread.
So here we are right back to where we started. Perhaps you've learned something.
If not, go back to school.
I would love to go back to school. Come and sit in my class, it seems I need to teach you a few lessons.
Lesson #1:
In general and through time, from the granting of television and radio licenses by the government to the Interstate Commerce Commission monopolizing the trucking industry and government imposed steel tariffs protecting the US steel industry, monopolies are a product of governmental intervention in the market place.
First, I'll just give you one simple statement to answer: Name me just one private monopoly that has had any long term success without governmental assistance.
If corporations controled our politics Obama wouldn't be President and the Democrats wouldn't hold majorities in both houses of Congrress.
One of the most asinine "popular" beliefs of our time is the corporations "control" politics. I mean, seriously. Just use your own head and think about it.
John, if you think a little deeper, you'll get it. It don't matter who gets elected and from what party.
"Sarah Palin absolutely blew AWAY the audience tonight. If there was any doubt as to whether she was savvy enough, tough enough or smart enough to carry the mantle of Vice President, she put those fears to rest tonight. She took on Barack Obama DIRECTLY on every issue and exposed... She did it with warmth and humor, and came across as the every-person....it's becoming mroe and more clear that she was a genius pick for McCain."
Baldy wrote:
I would love to go back to school. Come and sit in my class, it seems I need to teach you a few lessons.
Lesson #1:
In general and through time, from the granting of television and radio licenses by the government to the Interstate Commerce Commission monopolizing the trucking industry and government imposed steel tariffs protecting the US steel industry, monopolies are a product of governmental intervention in the market place.
First, I'll just give you one simple statement to answer: Name me just one private monopoly that has had any long term success without governmental assistance.
De Beers.
Good guess, but don't you think it's strange that you have to go all the way to the continent of Africa to find an example, especially since we are talking about the US government's intervention in the private sector?
Good guess, but don't you think it's strange that you have to go all the way to the continent of Africa to find an example, especially since we are talking about the US government's intervention in the private sector?
But they still have a successful monopoly here in the US, which exists against the will of the US government.
Baldy wrote:
Good guess, but don't you think it's strange that you have to go all the way to the continent of Africa to find an example, especially since we are talking about the US government's intervention in the private sector?
But they still have a successful monopoly here in the US, which exists against the will of the US government.
They only own 10 stores in the US...kinda impossible to have a monopoly here with that few stores.
Baldy wrote:
They only own 10 stores in the US...kinda impossible to have a monopoly here with that few stores.
They don't need any stores...
they sell the raw product to every re-seller in the US market - 100% Monopoly
Well, 70-80% is more accurate, but they have been sued and investigated by the DOJ on more than one occasion, and have paid damages.
Anyway, with all this corrupt capitalism running amok here in the US, you guys have got to do better than one single company headquartered in South Africa.
This is all about an ol' school political shakedown.
This is an election year. Regardless of Conk or Donk, during election cycles the poli's push out the reform/anti-corporate "fear" rhetoric.
Bills to regulate, tax, or restrict business/industry will be waltzed around Capitol Hill...
...while the lobbyists funnel hundreds of millions into campaign coffers.
In the end, the corporations who pay, get exempted, and those who don't will take it in the ass.
Get a clue.
I don't know who you're referring to exactly Tman but this is pretty much the same thing that is being said by quite a few of us.
He's drunk, again.
"Sarah Palin absolutely blew AWAY the audience tonight. If there was any doubt as to whether she was savvy enough, tough enough or smart enough to carry the mantle of Vice President, she put those fears to rest tonight. She took on Barack Obama DIRECTLY on every issue and exposed... She did it with warmth and humor, and came across as the every-person....it's becoming mroe and more clear that she was a genius pick for McCain."
You guys kill me in thinking that the President of the U.S has any real power today. The CEO of BP has more power that Obama. Big oil runs this country and has so since the late 40's. But you want to bitch about Health care.
Man I really pray that another Hitler type does not come out of the wood work in this country. Many of you would vote for him. Like I said SHEEP!!!!!
John, if you think a little deeper, you'll get it. It don't matter who gets elected and from what party.
People say that all the time but I don't think it's true. For instance: If McCain had won last time, do you think we'd be talking about a moratorium on deepwater drilling? Or take Supreme Court appointments. Do you think Sonia Sotomayor would be on the Supreme Court right now? Would we be talking about "cap and trade" legislation?
Which of the two political parties is in control makes a huge difference. And I don't think there's any question that, from the standpoint of "the corporations," things are better on balance when Republicans are in control. Sure, they read the tea leaves and if they see that Democrats are going to win they're going to give more money to Democrats. And they cover the bases. They give money both ways. But on balance there is no question as to which Party is more favorable to their interests.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star? Deep Purple: No One Came
mrklean wrote:You guys kill me in thinking that the President of the U.S has any real power today. The CEO of BP has more power that Obama. Big oil runs this country and has so since the late 40's. But you want to bitch about Health care.
Man I really pray that another Hitler type does not come out of the wood work in this country. Many of you would vote for him. Like I said SHEEP!!!!!
Odd you say that because Obama is the closest that I've seen in my lifetime to having the kind of sway that Hitler did over his people on the run up to the current state of affairs.
Now, I want you to re-read what I said. I did not say that Obama and Hitler shared any sort of belief system or that Obama is a reincarnate of Hitler.
Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:... Obama is the closest that I've seen in my lifetime to having the kind of sway that Hitler did over his people on the run up to the current state of affairs...
Wow! Never thought I would hear that from you, Ursus, but it is truth! I would add the word "irrational" in front of the word, "sway."
(Yes, I heard and understand the disclaimer.)
Proud Prince of Purple Pomposity YT is not a communist. He's just a ...young pup.
Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:... Obama is the closest that I've seen in my lifetime to having the kind of sway that Hitler did over his people on the run up to the current state of affairs...
Wow! Never thought I would hear that from you, Ursus, but it is truth! I would add the word "irrational" in front of the word, "sway."
(Yes, I heard and understand the disclaimer.)
I tend to look at things as objectively I can. It was a total bullshit job from the beginning and if you check my history the only thing I've ever said is that I hoped Obama could pull off 1/2 what was promised but I doubted what was said in the first place.
It is much the same way as I view the churches. There is nothing wrong with the tenets of religion and following those tenets. When the system is manipulated by groups of people is where shit gets real fucked up. The group leadership leads the group where it is best for the leadership and not necessarily the group while telling the group that this is what is best for them. They are really beautiful con games.
kalm wrote:
And they were bailed out for two reasons and by two different administrations because 1) They were too big to fail due to right wing monopoly capitalism under the guise of the free market. 2) Corporatism - the main thrust of this thread.
So here we are right back to where we started. Perhaps you've learned something.
If not, go back to school.
I would love to go back to school. Come and sit in my class, it seems I need to teach you a few lessons.
Lesson #1:
In general and through time, from the granting of television and radio licenses by the government to the Interstate Commerce Commission monopolizing the trucking industry and government imposed steel tariffs protecting the US steel industry, monopolies are a product of governmental intervention in the market place.
First, I'll just give you one simple statement to answer:
Name me just one private monopoly that has had any long term success without governmental assistance.
Very, very clever Baldy, and you obviously get it.
The problem with modern monopolies is that they have been created with the willing consent of the government.
Financial reform is the shining example with one piece of the proposed legislation requiring banks to spin off their derivatives operations into seperate entities requiring a certain amount of capitlization. This would only affect the 25 out of 8,000 largest banks in america.
There's your monopoly of course, and those banks will fight like mad to keep it from happening and probably get what they want.
I'm guessing your solution would be buyer beware and that the free market can't do any worse than the current system of quasi government oversight that really only sustains the monopolies.
Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:
Odd you say that because Obama is the closest that I've seen in my lifetime to having the kind of sway that Hitler did over his people on the run up to the current state of affairs.
Stop.
End Message.
Not if you read this forum. He never held sway for many, and for others, his sway lasted about 6 hours.
But I like the continued use of the telegraph message, even if it is at my expense.
mrklean wrote:You guys kill me in thinking that the President of the U.S has any real power today. The CEO of BP has more power that Obama. Big oil runs this country and has so since the late 40's. But you want to bitch about Health care.
Man I really pray that another Hitler type does not come out of the wood work in this country. Many of you would vote for him. Like I said SHEEP!!!!!
Odd you say that because Obama is the closest that I've seen in my lifetime to having the kind of sway that Hitler did over his people on the run up to the current state of affairs.
Now, I want you to re-read what I said. I did not say that Obama and Hitler shared any sort of belief system or that Obama is a reincarnate of Hitler.
Stop.
End Message.
Did you point to a section of the stands before you ripped into that one?
Disclaimer: I am officially being a cheerleader for Ursus' post - it was a damned funny one - and have added very little to the thread because there isn't a lot of substance to the topic anyway... who gives a rat's ass what some left wing nut job thinks (oooohhhh, he lived in another country, possibly another planet, so that makes him sooooooo much more, ummmm...you know...those foreign guys have much bigger...ummmm...brains...or electrons...or something like that...than the rest of us - except for those Iowegians).
Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:
Odd you say that because Obama is the closest that I've seen in my lifetime to having the kind of sway that Hitler did over his people on the run up to the current state of affairs.
Stop.
End Message.
Not if you read this forum. He never held sway for many, and for others, his sway lasted about 6 hours.
But I like the continued use of the telegraph message, even if it is at my expense.
I've only used it twice now but it is not at your expense or at least not in my mind.
You have only misunderstood what I was trying to say a couple of times so I needed it there for thought separation.
I know in advance that Klean will react emotionally and believe whatever he thinks he read so I wanted to make sure that he understands what I was saying right from the giddyup. Now in spite of that concerted effort on my part you watch what is sure to be forthcoming from him. It will be a classically fantastic, misspelled, nonsensical, piece of specious reasoning that leaves you thinking.... .
Cluck U wrote:
Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:
Odd you say that because Obama is the closest that I've seen in my lifetime to having the kind of sway that Hitler did over his people on the run up to the current state of affairs.
Now, I want you to re-read what I said. I did not say that Obama and Hitler shared any sort of belief system or that Obama is a reincarnate of Hitler.
Stop.
End Message.
Did you point to a section of the stands before you ripped into that one?
kalm wrote:
Very, very clever Baldy, and you obviously get it.
The problem with modern monopolies is that they have been created with the willing consent of the government.
Financial reform is the shining example with one piece of the proposed legislation requiring banks to spin off their derivatives operations into seperate entities requiring a certain amount of capitlization. This would only affect the 25 out of 8,000 largest banks in america.
There's your monopoly of course, and those banks will fight like mad to keep it from happening and probably get what they want.
I'm guessing your solution would be buyer beware and that the free market can't do any worse than the current system of quasi government oversight that really only sustains the monopolies.
Very clever indeed.
It seems you might have learned something today, or at least the possibility may be there...baby steps.
I'm here for ya. When you feel like you're ready for another step or two, just say the word.
Chizzang wrote:READ THIS:
The junk politics practiced by Obama is a consumer fraud. It is about lies. It is about keeping us in a perpetual state of childishness. But the longer we live in illusion, the worse reality will be when it finally shatters our fantasies. Those who do not understand what is happening around them and who are overwhelmed by a brutal reality they did not expect or foresee search desperately for saviors. They beg demagogues to come to their rescue. This is the ultimate danger of the Obama Brand. It effectively masks the wanton internal destruction and theft being carried out by our corporate state. These corporations, once they have stolen trillions in taxpayer wealth, will leave tens of millions of Americans bereft, bewildered and yearning for even more potent and deadly illusions, ones that could swiftly snuff out what is left of our diminished open society.
Fanstasies? The only fantasy in this thread is the expectation that normal people really give a shit about their future and/or their government. That is not the result of the US government and their cozy relationship with corporations...nope. People throughout history have been manipulated in every form of government/society that anyone has put together.
It is about the simple fact that, with few exceptions, people don't have the capacity to think beyond the next task and to take action that will have long term results. When a crisis comes, most people look to someone else.
Of course, Dennis and his kind are the exception to the rule. No outside saviors in his society.
Baldy wrote:
They only own 10 stores in the US...kinda impossible to have a monopoly here with that few stores.
They don't need any stores...
they sell the raw product to every re-seller in the US market - 100% Monopoly
Yup. They're technically banned from doing business in the US, as the government sees them as breaking our anti-trust laws. Hell, their executives won't even set foot on our soil for fear of being subpoenaed.
I would add the word "irrational" in front of the word, "sway."
Did you point to a section of the stands before you ripped into that one? 
.