Walk Away?

[Grizalltheway]

I'll save native the trouble: you guys are just freedom-hating commies.

You forgot: Who aren't as smart as he is... and can't see what he sees

Thanks for having my back, Chizz.

[JohnStOnge]

Republicans are all about Free Market Capitalism - right up until it negatively effects them...
Then it's about Honor and Morality

I am not a Republican. I am a Libertarian. However, I don't think I have seen Republicans suggest that you should fail to live up to agreements you make if it's possible for you to live up to the agreements.

Believing in "Free Market Capitalism" does not mean believing in failing to live up to agreements when you are capable of living up to them or in deceiving people. I think that's where people of your philosophical orientation with respect to the matter kind of miss the mark.

[AZGrizFan]

Our entire system used to be built on a mans word and his handshake.

I'm glad you find the collapse of that so amusing.

No, I find that tragic. And if I was in your industry with your insight, I'd be even more pissed.

But sometimes you've got to laugh. And the way Chizzang has owned you on this thread makes me laugh.

I'm a romanticist (according to Clitorus). He's a fatalist. I'm not sure how that means he's "owned " me.

[YoUDeeMan]

Our entire system used to be built on a mans word and his handshake.

I'm glad you find the collapse of that so amusing.

And it was WALL STREET that collapsed that system, not the average Joe.

Once again, dback tries to blame it all on Wall Street and misses the real cause.

Everyone knows the Griz initiated the collapse of the system when they started walking away from the back end of home-and-home agreements.

No honor...it was "just business".

[dbackjon]

And it was WALL STREET that collapsed that system, not the average Joe.

Once again, dback tries to blame it all on Wall Street and misses the real cause.

Everyone knows the Griz initiated the collapse of the system when they started walking away from the back end of home-and-home agreements.

No honor...it was "just business".

Them, and Furman

[native]

No, I find that tragic. And if I was in your industry with your insight, I'd be even more pissed.

But sometimes you've got to laugh. And the way Chizzang has owned you on this thread makes me laugh.

I'm a romanticist (according to Clitorus). He's a fatalist. I'm not sure how that means he's "owned " me.

Neither of them are ever sure what they mean, either.

[Chizzang]

I'm a romanticist (according to Clitorus). He's a fatalist. I'm not sure how that means he's "owned " me.

Not quite..
Your romanticizing about something because you're on the wrong end of the deal this time... that's all
and
There is nothing fatalist about business 101


but nice try...

[OL FU]

We had a housing bubble for lots of reasons. Easy money, cheap interest rates, the fed handing out money like trick or treat candy, bankers deciding to throw caution to the wind because they certainly weren't going to let it look like the bank next door was out performing them in the short term even if the long term was a train wreck. The consideration that people will make their mortgage payment instead of feeding themselves played into it albeit at a much lower level. This is simply one more place the market made a mistake and needs to price that in in the future. This is all part of the pricing system that makes the economy work.


Now if we could get the federal government to stop monkeying with the pricing system.

[houndawg]

I'm a romanticist (according to Clitorus). He's a fatalist. I'm not sure how that means he's "owned " me.

Not quite..
Your romanticizing about something because you're on the wrong end of the deal this time... that's all
and
There is nothing fatalist about business 101


but nice try...

Ah for the days when the little man stayed screwed and kept his mouth shut.

[AZGrizFan]

I'm a romanticist (according to Clitorus). He's a fatalist. I'm not sure how that means he's "owned " me.

Not quite..
Your romanticizing about something because you're on the wrong end of the deal this time... that's all
and
There is nothing fatalist about business 101

Says the guy who's said at least 1,000 times (just on this board) that there's nothing we can do about it, you're enjoying the ride, we' reap what we sow, it is what it is, etc., etc., etc.

Giving in and ACCEPTING this as "ok" or "the norm" most CERTAINLY makes you a fatalist.

[Chizzang]

Not quite..
Your romanticizing about something because you're on the wrong end of the deal this time... that's all
and
There is nothing fatalist about business 101

Says the guy who's said at least 1,000 times (just on this board) that there's nothing we can do about it, you're enjoying the ride, we' reap what we sow, it is what it is, etc., etc., etc.

Giving in and ACCEPTING this as "ok" or "the norm" most CERTAINLY makes you a fatalist.

You're reaching... (it's actually cute to watch you squirm a little)

AZ don't confuse the reality and fact that there are things I just can't do anything about...

We call those "facts" not "fatalism"

I don't even have a mortgage to walk away from and I only know a handful of guys in the banking business and one of them - in San Francisco working for JP Morgan (that we call Chase Bank to reduce the obvious connection to the Federal Reserve) isn't nearly as worried as you are... in fact he's thrilled... soon to be in the buying position on floundering banks all over America

Did I mention that in a few years there will only be for or five banks...

[AZGrizFan]

You're reaching... (it's actually cute to watch you squirm a little)

AZ don't confuse the reality and fact that there are things I just can't do anything about...

We call those "facts" not "fatalism"

I don't even have a mortgage to walk away from and I only know a handful of guys in the banking business and one of them - in San Francisco working for JP Morgan (that we call Chase Bank to reduce the obvious connection to the Federal Reserve) isn't nearly as worried as you are... in fact he's thrilled... soon to be in the buying position on floundering banks all over America

Did I mention that in a few years there will only be for or five banks...

I don't know whether you're ACTUALLY stupid, or just playing stupid to continue the charade.

Of COURSE your buddy with Chase is thrilled. THEY will get bailout money. THEY won't be allowed to fail. THEY will be buying up these failing banks all over the country with the blessing of the government, and being given billions and billions of dollars to do it.

And as soon as you don't feel you can do something about it, you've become a fatalist. Kind of like the "war on drugs".

[blueballs]

Experian finds that 19% of all defaults in Q2 2009 were "strategic defaults..."

http://www.housingwire.com/2010/06/28/e ... -strategic

[Baldy]

Our entire system used to be built on a mans word and his handshake.

I'm glad you find the collapse of that so amusing.

And it was THE GOVERNMENT that collapsed that system, not the average Joe.

FIFY

Accuracy.

[dbackjon]

And it was THE GOVERNMENT that collapsed that system, not the average Joe.

FIFY

Accuracy.

bullshit Baldy, and you know it. When Wall Street turned it's focus from long-term growth to short-term profit is when things went south.

[OL FU]

FIFY

Accuracy.

bullshit Baldy, and you know it. When Wall Street turned it's focus from long-term growth to short-term profit is when things went south.

Not forgiving Wall Street, but there is a different take. When the government is handing money to banks for free or at least on the cheap, banks can either do something with it or not, If they don't then their shareholders, TV Experts politicians, etc are going to be all over their hind end because the bank next door is making money hand over fists and helping the economy grow and helping people into home ownership (even if they are doing it at their long term risk) . The banker sitting there doing nothing looks stupid as the world spins around hime and in fact probably will be acquired by the banker loaning money like a crazy person long before crazy banker's bubble gets burst in the long term.

None of what I said removes the blame from bankers, but until we take a long hard look at the government policies over the last 20 (maybe even 30year) years of easy, cheap money, misplaced tax incentives, subsidizing assets we are in for one bust after another.

[YoUDeeMan]

Jesus effin' Christ!

I make a nice leap off the "honoring a contract" crap and manage to snag the Montana Grizzlies as the fall guy for the entire banking/housing industry collapse and you folks continue to spit at the wind. Just like the Griz, the people are honoring their contract, in deeds, if not in spirit. The bank keeps the house as their part of the bargain.

What a waste of fine humor.

Back to reality...of course the banking giants will be buying up lots of the failing little banks...and our elected officials are taking their money and looking the other way. It is not capitalism at all…but it certainly is controlled by big money.

Sorry, AZ, I hope your customers are a little more loyal so you can save your own hide.

However, AZ is correct that there is a much bigger issue involved. Personal responsibility of the average Joe has kept the system, in fact, all systems (economic, governmental, religious, etc.) running relatively smoothly. Most people can operate within a system if they know the "rules". Strange things happen when the system fails.

People are fed up with the status quo of how businesses and governments operate. The main difference these days is that the plethora of media outlets allows more people to understand (well, understanding is a bit of a reach, but it will do for now) just how screwed up things have been and they are disconnecting from the system(s). It will be interesting to see how far that “disconnecting” trend goes. The real interesting part is what happens when people feel they can’t trust the government to right the perceived wrongs…will people take issues into the own hands? Heck, our inner cities are already that way…sad if the rest of the country end up mirroring that chaos.

As for the banks, I am not buying the end of the world view related to a bunch of small banks going under. We saw a lot of that with the S&L crisis and America survived. In fact, I found it quite amusing to see a new “small” bank (First Bank of Jabbip) popping up on every corner…usually run by some upper level bankers who bailed from one of the giants but wanted a bigger title in front of their names…and yet offering the same low paying teller jobs so the bank’s leaders (and financial backers) could still make silly money off the backs of the local depositors. Karma...it's what's for breakfast.

[Chizzang]

You're reaching... (it's actually cute to watch you squirm a little)

AZ don't confuse the reality and fact that there are things I just can't do anything about...

We call those "facts" not "fatalism"

I don't even have a mortgage to walk away from and I only know a handful of guys in the banking business and one of them - in San Francisco working for JP Morgan (that we call Chase Bank to reduce the obvious connection to the Federal Reserve) isn't nearly as worried as you are... in fact he's thrilled... soon to be in the buying position on floundering banks all over America

Did I mention that in a few years there will only be for or five banks...

I don't know whether you're ACTUALLY stupid, or just playing stupid to continue the charade.

Of COURSE your buddy with Chase is thrilled. THEY will get bailout money. THEY won't be allowed to fail. THEY will be buying up these failing banks all over the country with the blessing of the government, and being given billions and billions of dollars to do it.

And as soon as you don't feel you can do something about it, you've become a fatalist. Kind of like the "war on drugs".

All the above that you describe sounds wonderful...
I'm in complete and total harmony with those events as explained by you

Wal-Mart / Coca-cola / McDonalds...

How is any of this not completely predictable
and it's certainly not bad or confusing

It's called REALITY my friend
You might try dabbling in it sometime when your done with fairy tales and Hand shakes

[AZGrizFan]

Fatalist.

[Chizzang]

None of what I said removes the blame from bankers, but until we take a long hard look at the government policies over the last 20 (maybe even 30year) years of easy, cheap money, misplaced tax incentives, subsidizing assets we are in for one bust after another.

One observation about cheap money...
If the Bank is one of the Chartered Members like JP Morgan Bank (Chase) and Citigroup etc. they effectively print their own money in accordance to the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 so the money isn't "Cheap" it's literally free...

All it requires is it's nine member board and the Presidential Board of Governors (FED RES. Board) to approve it - to my knowledge and according to public record - this has always been approved...

It's not so much a "bail out" as much as the chartered banks telling the Government "We're going to give ourselves more money now" so excuse us for a moment...

[OL FU]

None of what I said removes the blame from bankers, but until we take a long hard look at the government policies over the last 20 (maybe even 30year) years of easy, cheap money, misplaced tax incentives, subsidizing assets we are in for one bust after another.

One observation about cheap money...
If the Bank is one of the Chartered Members like JP Morgan Bank (Chase) and Citigroup etc. they effectively print their own money in accordance to the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 so the money isn't "Cheap" it's literally free...

All it requires is it's nine member board and the Presidential Board of Governors (FED RES. Board) to approve it - to my knowledge and according to public record - this has always been approved...

It's not so much a "bail out" as much as the chartered banks telling the Government "We're going to give ourselves more money now" so excuse us for a moment...

That could be. I am not familiar with all the ends and outs but it would be interesting to understand why Citigroup didn't print away when it got into so much trouble. Hopefully we agree no matter the mechanism, if you provide capitalist ( especially crony capitalist ) not only the mechanisms but the incentives to run wild (such as subsidizing housing through tax deductions, tax credits or a quasi government entity like FNMA buying most of the worthless debt), these guys are going to run wild. It isn't good. It isn't right. But if the game is set up that way, they are going to play the game.

[Baldy]

FIFY

Accuracy.

bullshit Baldy, and you know it. When Wall Street turned it's focus from long-term growth to short-term profit is when things went south.

Wrong again.

When Fannie and Freddie started to allow anyone with a pulse to buy a house even when they knew that those people couldn't pay for it is when things started to go south.

[Chizzang]

One observation about cheap money...
If the Bank is one of the Chartered Members like JP Morgan Bank (Chase) and Citigroup etc. they effectively print their own money in accordance to the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 so the money isn't "Cheap" it's literally free...

All it requires is it's nine member board and the Presidential Board of Governors (FED RES. Board) to approve it - to my knowledge and according to public record - this has always been approved...

It's not so much a "bail out" as much as the chartered banks telling the Government "We're going to give ourselves more money now" so excuse us for a moment...

That could be. I am not familiar with all the ends and outs but it would be interesting to understand why Citigroup didn't print away when it got into so much trouble. Hopefully we agree no matter the mechanism, if you provide capitalist ( especially crony capitalist ) not only the mechanisms but the incentives to run wild (such as subsidizing housing through tax deductions, tax credits or a quasi government entity like FNMA buying most of the worthless debt), these guys are going to run wild. It isn't good. It isn't right. But if the game is set up that way, they are going to play the game.

I think they have to submit to an audit form the Federal Reserve Board to print off more money than they said they needed - which are the presidentially appointed members who are now slapping the hands of these banks for screwing up...

So these banks will now crash the system in a few months (Note stock market at 7500 is on the horizon) in an effort to clean house in the senate

And yes... I agree with your post
It's not good or bad it's just the way it is baby...

[OL FU]

That could be. I am not familiar with all the ends and outs but it would be interesting to understand why Citigroup didn't print away when it got into so much trouble. Hopefully we agree no matter the mechanism, if you provide capitalist ( especially crony capitalist ) not only the mechanisms but the incentives to run wild (such as subsidizing housing through tax deductions, tax credits or a quasi government entity like FNMA buying most of the worthless debt), these guys are going to run wild. It isn't good. It isn't right. But if the game is set up that way, they are going to play the game.

I think they have to submit to an audit form the Federal Reserve Board to print off more money than they said they needed - which are the presidentially appointed members who are now slapping the hands of these banks for screwing up...

So these banks will now crash the system in a few months (Note stock market at 7500 is on the horizon) in an effort to clean house in the senate

And yes... I agree with your post
It's not good or bad it's just the way it is baby...

And I will agree with you except that I will say it is bad, and I will be fatalistic and say I don't think there is a damn thing that can be done about.

[citdog]

abolish, how i hate that word , the damn federal reserve system!