Charlie Manuel Watch Thread - 2010 Edition

[93henfan]

Arizona doesn't need any outfielders

You can never have too many. The trade doesn't have to make sense for Arizona.

[GannonFan]

Arizona doesn't need any outfielders

You can never have too many. The trade doesn't have to make sense for Arizona.

Seriously, who the F cares about Arizona and their needs, this is all about Philly (as it should be).

[BlueHen86]

They may not be desparate, but Amaro has stated that his top priority is to land a starting pitcher. I heard the named Dan Haren mentioned on the radio this morning, the problem with trading for Haren is that Arizona would want prospects as opposed to players like Werth or Ibanez.

I know what Amaro said, but he also said that getting rid of Lee had nothing to do with money and all about restocking the minor leagues (I think it had a little to do with restocking the minor leagues, but it had plenty to do with keeping the payroll down) so I take that with a grain of salt. But if they do go for a guy like Haren they would probably be alright taking someone like Victorino - he's under a reasonable contract for 2 more years before he's a FA and he'll never command huge money.

I don't think Arizona would want Victorino. I do think Shane is the most tradable of the three starting Phillie outfielders, he's also the one I'd least like to see traded.

[BlueHen86]

Lidge blows another save, Phils are batting in the bottom of the 9th in a 3-3 tie.

[BlueHen86]

Phils win 4-3 in 12 innings thanks to a Brian Schnieder walk off homer.

[93henfan]

I say we trade the whole team, minus Halladay, Utley, Howard, Rollins, and Ruiz, for a couple of middle relievers and a closer.

Is that feasible?

[GannonFan]

I say we trade the whole team, minus Halladay, Utley, Howard, Rollins, and Ruiz, for a couple of middle relievers and a closer.

Is that feasible?

Nah, the Phils are 3-1 in Lidge's last 4 save opportunities, and that included 3 blown saves. Heck, as soon as he blew the save I knew we had the Reds right where we want them - they fell into the trap!!!

[BlueHen86]

Phils rally for 6 runs in the bottom of the 9th to tie the Reds at 7-7 and then win in the 10th 9-7 on a Ryan Howard walk off home run.

Trailing 7-2 with 1 out in the 9th Greg Dobbs hits a 3 run homer to make it 7-5. Then with 2 outs and none one Ben Francisco walks and Cody Ransom hits a 2 run homer to tie it.

[93henfan]

Ya gotta like the direction the Phils are heading going into the break. They're hanging in there and finding a way to get it done. Chooch and J-Roll are back strong. Lidge almost imploded but found a way out. Contreras was actually effective again after a really bad stretch. Happ is closer. Polanco's been cleared for rehab. Maybe Utley can sleep in a hyperbaric chamber the next five weeks and make a miraculous recovery. You have to think the Braves will come back to earth eventually, with the break hopefully busting up their momentum. The Phils are only a half game behind the Mets now and two out of the wild card. The Phils record is essentially identical at this point in the season to where it was the past three.

I want to believe.

[93henfan]

I want to believe.

I wanted to believe.

[93henfan]

Welcome back, Placido Polanco.

[BlueHen86]

Welcome back, Placido Polanco.

Nice come back today for the Fightins'. They score 4 runs in the 9th, all with 2 outs and win 4-1. The key play occured when the Cubs catcher failed to catch the ball on a play at the plate, if he catches the ball the runner is out and the Phils lose 1-0. The pitcher, Marmol, falls apart after that and wild pitches in the second run and then walks Werth with the bases loaded to make it 3-1.

[bluehenbillk]

Well are they gonna trade Werth or not? Don't think they have much except in low levels to trade other than Brown which isn't happening so....

This team is just hard to watch.

[GannonFan]

Well are they gonna trade Werth or not? Don't think they have much except in low levels to trade other than Brown which isn't happening so....

This team is just hard to watch.

Hard to say - heck, Werth is one of the major problems with the Phils right now - he hasn't been right since April. I don't know if it's the facial hair or not but Werth is a big hole in the lineup and the lineup and the lack of hitting has been the single biggest problem with this team this year. Sure the bullpen and the bench could be better, but when it comes down to it, if the regular 8 in the lineup hit like they should and have done, then the Phils are cruising. They haven't hit, and Werth is one of the biggest disappointments in that, and the Phils are where they are.

Even if you trade Werth, though, what can you get for him? He can probably still command a pretty good salary next year in spite of this year's numbers and will people be scared away because of that and the fact that he hasn't played well this year? I'm almost inclined to holding on to him, hope that he's more reasonable to sign after a bad year this year.

And yes, this team is hard to watch - they've spoiled us - they are too good to be playing this poorly and hitting this feebly.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Kyle Kendrick is a meatball vendor.

[bluehenbillk]

Bad game last night. For once, you couldn't talk about going against a quality starter, that guy was a minor league hack and we only got 4 off him. Did anyone see that Cards lineup? Pujols & 8 stiffs & they still beat the Phils, ugh.

[GannonFan]

Agreed - Kendrick obviously didn't do any favors for the Phils last night, but this team just won't hit for some reason. Four runs off of that clown of a pitcher last night was brutal. And once the Phils surrendered the lead in the 5th, they just went quietly into the night - basically sleptwalked through the last 4 innings. This team just won't hit.

[BlueHen86]

I don't think this is the Phils year. They seem to have lost the edge that they have had in years past. They are incapable of gaining or establishing momentum, everytime they have a big win (like Sat. at Chic) they follow it up with a listless performance.

Also, they aren't chasing the Mets, they are chasing the Braves. I know the Mets will choke when the going gets tough, but I don't think the Braves will (although they do have Billy Wagner and he usually sucks come September).

The Cardinals and Reds play most of their remaining games against losing teams, there is a good chance that they will both make the playoffs. The Phils might have to catch the Braves if they want to make the playoffs this year.

[GannonFan]

I don't think this is the Phils year. They seem to have lost the edge that they have had in years past. They are incapable of gaining or establishing momentum, everytime they have a big win (like Sat. at Chic) they follow it up with a listless performance.

Also, they aren't chasing the Mets, they are chasing the Braves. I know the Mets will choke when the going gets tough, but I don't think the Braves will (although they do have Billy Wagner and he usually sucks come September).

The Cardinals and Reds play most of their remaining games against losing teams, there is a good chance that they will both make the playoffs. The Phils might have to catch the Braves if they want to make the playoffs this year.

I'm not worried that the Braves are uncatchable - the Braves are a good team, but not a great one. The problem is, though, can the Phils even rise to that level, and you're right, they just don't seem to have the edge this year. If they played to their potential, it wouldn't even be a question, but unfortunately, they are playing well below what they have proven they are capable of. Very disappointing, really.

[bluehenbillk]

Kendrick sent down today, Andrew Carpenter brought up, rumors swirling about Happ, some good, some bad....

[GannonFan]

Kendrick sent down today, Andrew Carpenter brought up, rumors swirling about Happ, some good, some bad....

Happ makes another start for Lehigh Valley tonight, right? Perfectly fine with letting Kendrick go down - starting to see the same thing that killed him back in '07 - just doesn't seem to have the mental fortitude to handle adversity. Shame too because he has major league stuff - he just gets into trouble too often and can't get out of it.

I always liked Carpenter - thought he should've gotten more of a chance before now. It'll be interesting if he's actually replacing Kendrick in the rotation or if this is the prelude to a trade. If they can improve the starting rotation that's fine by me, but unless the hitting comes around we could've not made that Lee trade before the start of the year and would still be in the same boat - this team has to hit to win.

[BlueHen86]

I don't think this is the Phils year. They seem to have lost the edge that they have had in years past. They are incapable of gaining or establishing momentum, everytime they have a big win (like Sat. at Chic) they follow it up with a listless performance.

Also, they aren't chasing the Mets, they are chasing the Braves. I know the Mets will choke when the going gets tough, but I don't think the Braves will (although they do have Billy Wagner and he usually sucks come September).

The Cardinals and Reds play most of their remaining games against losing teams, there is a good chance that they will both make the playoffs. The Phils might have to catch the Braves if they want to make the playoffs this year.

I'm not worried that the Braves are uncatchable - the Braves are a good team, but not a great one. The problem is, though, can the Phils even rise to that level, and you're right, they just don't seem to have the edge this year. If they played to their potential, it wouldn't even be a question, but unfortunately, they are playing well below what they have proven they are capable of. Very disappointing, really.

I agree with the Braves being a good but not great team, my point was that they probably won't collapse like the Mets. The Phils will have to play well to catch them, whereas the Mets would help the Phils out by choking.

[bluehenbillk]

Could that have been the end of the Jamie Moyer era in Philly last night??

Sounds like they should unfurl a rollout in RF Friday night, if he's still even there: "Jayson: Thanks for the Memories"

[GannonFan]

Could that have been the end of the Jamie Moyer era in Philly last night??

Sounds like they should unfurl a rollout in RF Friday night, if he's still even there: "Jayson: Thanks for the Memories"

For all the grief that Moyer's gotten recently, though, in light of his Phillies career potentially coming to an end (although, now, with the arm injury, the Phils could make a good case to bring him back on a one year deal at a significantly lower base, high incentive contract - I'm not saying they should, just saying) you have to admit the Phils got one heck of a deal when they traded for Moyer. I mean, we picked him up by trading two guys named Andrew Barb and Andy Baldwin as a mid-season pickup in 2006, and we ended up getting a 56-40 record with over 720 IP over the course of 5 years. Granted, it wasn't always pretty, but if we made trades like that and got that back in return everytime the Phils would be certifiable genuises. As it stands, one heck of a signing by Gillick back in '06.

As for going forward, Happ certainly seems like he's ready and absent any big moves (and even in light of one) I can't imagine he's not recalled today when Moyer hits the DL. But you have to think they'll make a play for one of the big 3 starting pitchers that could be had (Oswalt, Haren, or less likely, Cain). If they had to, I would even consider giving up Victorino and keeping Werth. Victorino's stock is never going to be higher than it is right now (while his average is down he's putting up some power numbers) and you figure with Brown coming up in September and then staying here after that, he can replace Victorino in center if need be. And plus, Victorino starts making a lot of money soon - up to $9.5M by 2012 - I like Victorino, but he's starting to be overpaid as a result of the success the Phils have had. And if they get guys like Oswalt or Haren you have to like it going forward - both those guys are wrapped up in reasonable contracts with several years left (Oswalt at $16M through a club option in 2012, Haren at $13M through a club option in 2013) so that would set up a rotation of Halladay, Hamels, and one of them going into next year (along with Blanton and/or Happ, depending on if either of them is part of a trade), with a chance to even afford Werth if he's not part of the trade (and if we want him back). It could be like 1979 all over again - Phils take a step back after 3 division titles only to be even stronger in the following year. Only difference is we have a WS ring and another pennant this time to go along with the division crowns. I could accept that.

[blueballs]

If the Braves play at their current .591 clip the rest of the way they would finish with 96 wins and almost assuredly make the playoffs either as a division winnner or wild card.

To match that record Philly would have to go 48-21 (.695) the rest of the way. It is possible but nothing Philly has shown this year leads me to believe that is likely so the Phils are going to need the Braves to cool off a bit to make a race of it.

IMO the wild card wil come out of the Central division so it would sem like the magic number for Philly is 96 wins.