The FCS Elimination Game
- mlbowl
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- I am a fan of: Montana
- Location: Malmstrom AFB, MT
Re: The FCS Elimination Game
+ Montana
- Liberty
Albany 16
Appalachian State 76
Arkansas PB 9
Bryant 27
Butler 23
Central Connecticut 22
Delaware 85
Duquesne 33
Eastern Washington 45
Elon 31
Fordham 11
Gardner-Webb 52
Georgetown 12
Georgia Southern 31
Hampton 7
Howard 10
Jackson State 11
Jacksonville State 48
Lafayette 11
Liberty 60
Marist 4
McNeese State 35
Mississippi Valley State 6
Missouri State 22
Montana 71
Montana State 13
Murray State 40
North Carolina Central 7
North Dakota 20
Northern Arizona 36
Northern Iowa 36
Northwestern State 53
Sacramento State 68
Savannah State 10
South Dakota State 17
Southern 17
Texas State 38
Towson 38
Wagner 32
Western Carolina 32
William & Mary 38
- Liberty
Albany 16
Appalachian State 76
Arkansas PB 9
Bryant 27
Butler 23
Central Connecticut 22
Delaware 85
Duquesne 33
Eastern Washington 45
Elon 31
Fordham 11
Gardner-Webb 52
Georgetown 12
Georgia Southern 31
Hampton 7
Howard 10
Jackson State 11
Jacksonville State 48
Lafayette 11
Liberty 60
Marist 4
McNeese State 35
Mississippi Valley State 6
Missouri State 22
Montana 71
Montana State 13
Murray State 40
North Carolina Central 7
North Dakota 20
Northern Arizona 36
Northern Iowa 36
Northwestern State 53
Sacramento State 68
Savannah State 10
South Dakota State 17
Southern 17
Texas State 38
Towson 38
Wagner 32
Western Carolina 32
William & Mary 38
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Re: The FCS Elimination Game
+ Texas State
- Arkansas PB
Albany 16
Appalachian State 76
Arkansas PB 8
Bryant 27
Butler 23
Central Connecticut 22
Delaware 85
Duquesne 33
Eastern Washington 45
Elon 31
Fordham 11
Gardner-Webb 52
Georgetown 12
Georgia Southern 31
Hampton 7
Howard 10
Jackson State 11
Jacksonville State 48
Lafayette 11
Liberty 60
Marist 4
McNeese State 35
Mississippi Valley State 6
Missouri State 22
Montana 71
Montana State 13
Murray State 40
North Carolina Central 7
North Dakota 20
Northern Arizona 36
Northern Iowa 36
Northwestern State 53
Sacramento State 68
Savannah State 10
South Dakota State 17
Southern 17
Texas State 39
Towson 38
Wagner 32
Western Carolina 32
William & Mary 38
- Arkansas PB
Albany 16
Appalachian State 76
Arkansas PB 8
Bryant 27
Butler 23
Central Connecticut 22
Delaware 85
Duquesne 33
Eastern Washington 45
Elon 31
Fordham 11
Gardner-Webb 52
Georgetown 12
Georgia Southern 31
Hampton 7
Howard 10
Jackson State 11
Jacksonville State 48
Lafayette 11
Liberty 60
Marist 4
McNeese State 35
Mississippi Valley State 6
Missouri State 22
Montana 71
Montana State 13
Murray State 40
North Carolina Central 7
North Dakota 20
Northern Arizona 36
Northern Iowa 36
Northwestern State 53
Sacramento State 68
Savannah State 10
South Dakota State 17
Southern 17
Texas State 39
Towson 38
Wagner 32
Western Carolina 32
William & Mary 38
Re: The FCS Elimination Game
McNeese +
Marist -
Albany 16
Appalachian State 76
Arkansas PB 8
Bryant 27
Butler 23
Central Connecticut 22
Delaware 85
Duquesne 33
Eastern Washington 45
Elon 31
Fordham 11
Gardner-Webb 52
Georgetown 12
Georgia Southern 31
Hampton 7
Howard 10
Jackson State 11
Jacksonville State 48
Lafayette 11
Liberty 60
Marist 3
McNeese State 36
Mississippi Valley State 6
Missouri State 22
Montana 71
Montana State 13
Murray State 40
North Carolina Central 7
North Dakota 20
Northern Arizona 36
Northern Iowa 36
Northwestern State 53
Sacramento State 68
Savannah State 10
South Dakota State 17
Southern 17
Texas State 39
Towson 38
Wagner 32
Western Carolina 32
William & Mary 38
Marist -
Albany 16
Appalachian State 76
Arkansas PB 8
Bryant 27
Butler 23
Central Connecticut 22
Delaware 85
Duquesne 33
Eastern Washington 45
Elon 31
Fordham 11
Gardner-Webb 52
Georgetown 12
Georgia Southern 31
Hampton 7
Howard 10
Jackson State 11
Jacksonville State 48
Lafayette 11
Liberty 60
Marist 3
McNeese State 36
Mississippi Valley State 6
Missouri State 22
Montana 71
Montana State 13
Murray State 40
North Carolina Central 7
North Dakota 20
Northern Arizona 36
Northern Iowa 36
Northwestern State 53
Sacramento State 68
Savannah State 10
South Dakota State 17
Southern 17
Texas State 39
Towson 38
Wagner 32
Western Carolina 32
William & Mary 38
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Re: The FCS Elimination Game
+ EWU
- Liberty
Albany 16
Appalachian State 76
Arkansas PB 8
Bryant 27
Butler 23
Central Connecticut 22
Delaware 85
Duquesne 33
Eastern Washington 46
Elon 31
Fordham 11
Gardner-Webb 52
Georgetown 12
Georgia Southern 31
Hampton 7
Howard 10
Jackson State 11
Jacksonville State 48
Lafayette 11
Liberty 59
Marist 3
McNeese State 36
Mississippi Valley State 6
Missouri State 22
Montana 71
Montana State 13
Murray State 40
North Carolina Central 7
North Dakota 20
Northern Arizona 36
Northern Iowa 36
Northwestern State 53
Sacramento State 68
Savannah State 10
South Dakota State 17
Southern 17
Texas State 39
Towson 38
Wagner 32
Western Carolina 32
William & Mary 38
- Liberty
Albany 16
Appalachian State 76
Arkansas PB 8
Bryant 27
Butler 23
Central Connecticut 22
Delaware 85
Duquesne 33
Eastern Washington 46
Elon 31
Fordham 11
Gardner-Webb 52
Georgetown 12
Georgia Southern 31
Hampton 7
Howard 10
Jackson State 11
Jacksonville State 48
Lafayette 11
Liberty 59
Marist 3
McNeese State 36
Mississippi Valley State 6
Missouri State 22
Montana 71
Montana State 13
Murray State 40
North Carolina Central 7
North Dakota 20
Northern Arizona 36
Northern Iowa 36
Northwestern State 53
Sacramento State 68
Savannah State 10
South Dakota State 17
Southern 17
Texas State 39
Towson 38
Wagner 32
Western Carolina 32
William & Mary 38
Re: The FCS Elimination Game
Posted at 8:56 on Friday and at 8:59 another post hit and did not include my changes. I have modified the post above to correct the McNeese total to 37McNeese75 wrote:McNeese +1
Morgan State -1
Albany 14
Appalachian State 71
Arkansas PB 10
Bethune-Cookman 6
Bryant 29
Butler 23
Central Connecticut 19
Delaware 81
Duquesne 30
Eastern Washington 41
Elon 29
Fordham 10
Gardner-Webb 50
Georgetown 13
Georgia Southern 27
Hampton 9
Howard 11
Jackson State 11
Jacksonville State 48
Lafayette 11
Liberty 72
Marist 9
McNeese State 36
Mississippi Valley State 8
Missouri State 20
Montana 79
Montana State 13
Morgan State 7
Murray State 37
North Carolina Central 9
North Dakota 19
Northern Arizona 35
Northern Iowa 34
Northwestern State 53
Sacramento State 65
Savannah State 10
South Dakota State 18
Southern 17
Texas State 37
Towson 34
Wagner 30
Western Carolina 31
William & Mary 37
Re: The FCS Elimination Game
I posted the above at 8:56 on Friday and at 8:59 another post hit and did not include my changes. Following is Screaming Eagle's post to correct McNeese to 37 after my post above. The following should go forward.McNeese75 wrote:McNeese +1
Morgan State -1
Albany 14
Appalachian State 71
Arkansas PB 10
Bethune-Cookman 6
Bryant 29
Butler 23
Central Connecticut 19
Delaware 81
Duquesne 30
Eastern Washington 41
Elon 29
Fordham 10
Gardner-Webb 50
Georgetown 13
Georgia Southern 27
Hampton 9
Howard 11
Jackson State 11
Jacksonville State 48
Lafayette 11
Liberty 72
Marist 9
McNeese State 36
Mississippi Valley State 8
Missouri State 20
Montana 79
Montana State 13
Morgan State 7
Murray State 37
North Carolina Central 9
North Dakota 19
Northern Arizona 35
Northern Iowa 34
Northwestern State 53
Sacramento State 65
Savannah State 10
South Dakota State 18
Southern 17
Texas State 37
Towson 34
Wagner 30
Western Carolina 31
William & Mary 37
+ EWU
- Liberty
Albany 16
Appalachian State 76
Arkansas PB 8
Bryant 27
Butler 23
Central Connecticut 22
Delaware 85
Duquesne 33
Eastern Washington 46
Elon 31
Fordham 11
Gardner-Webb 52
Georgetown 12
Georgia Southern 31
Hampton 7
Howard 10
Jackson State 11
Jacksonville State 48
Lafayette 11
Liberty 59
Marist 3
McNeese State 37
Mississippi Valley State 6
Missouri State 22
Montana 71
Montana State 13
Murray State 40
North Carolina Central 7
North Dakota 20
Northern Arizona 36
Northern Iowa 36
Northwestern State 53
Sacramento State 68
Savannah State 10
South Dakota State 17
Southern 17
Texas State 39
Towson 38
Wagner 32
Western Carolina 32
William & Mary 38
- Cadbury20J
- Posts: 42
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- I am a fan of: Jax State
- A.K.A.: Cadbury
- Location: Jacksonville, AL
Re: The FCS Elimination Game
+ Jacksonville State
- Liberty
Albany 16
Appalachian State 76
Arkansas PB 8
Bryant 27
Butler 23
Central Connecticut 22
Delaware 85
Duquesne 33
Eastern Washington 46
Elon 31
Fordham 11
Gardner-Webb 52
Georgetown 12
Georgia Southern 31
Hampton 7
Howard 10
Jackson State 11
Jacksonville State 49
Lafayette 11
Liberty 58
Marist 3
McNeese State 37
Mississippi Valley State 6
Missouri State 22
Montana 71
Montana State 13
Murray State 40
North Carolina Central 7
North Dakota 20
Northern Arizona 36
Northern Iowa 36
Northwestern State 53
Sacramento State 68
Savannah State 10
South Dakota State 17
Southern 17
Texas State 39
Towson 38
Wagner 32
Western Carolina 32
William & Mary 38
- Liberty
Albany 16
Appalachian State 76
Arkansas PB 8
Bryant 27
Butler 23
Central Connecticut 22
Delaware 85
Duquesne 33
Eastern Washington 46
Elon 31
Fordham 11
Gardner-Webb 52
Georgetown 12
Georgia Southern 31
Hampton 7
Howard 10
Jackson State 11
Jacksonville State 49
Lafayette 11
Liberty 58
Marist 3
McNeese State 37
Mississippi Valley State 6
Missouri State 22
Montana 71
Montana State 13
Murray State 40
North Carolina Central 7
North Dakota 20
Northern Arizona 36
Northern Iowa 36
Northwestern State 53
Sacramento State 68
Savannah State 10
South Dakota State 17
Southern 17
Texas State 39
Towson 38
Wagner 32
Western Carolina 32
William & Mary 38
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2006- "50th Anniversary"
2007- "Higher, Faster, Louder"
2008- "From Russia With Love"
2009- "Of Thee I Sing"
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Re: The FCS Elimination Game
Some of your finest work in a long time clenzy.clenz wrote: rueful,
I understand what you are saying with your post, I do. Don't let people like citdog, or shitdog as he has been referred too as here more than a couple times, determine your opinion of the posters on this site. There is plenty of good football talk to be had here, there is just more smack to read than the other site. That isn't a bad thing. Trust me, it takes a bit to get used too, but once you learn what is and isn't a serious attack you are much better off. 99.9% of the smack on this board is sarcasm. The biggest problem with Liberty people here right now, at least the new ones, is that you have NO sense of humor about anything. I'm sure you get a lot of shit about Jerry from a lot of places, can you blame them at times though? I'm sure they go to far, but like I said before, anytime you support something that a bigot (yes, I firmly believe he was) founded it comes with the territory. That doesn't mean you believe some of the stupid shit that he taught/believed though, I get that.
If you want to talk football put guys like citdog on ignore, if you don't know how to do that here let me know I'll help. I didn't know until about a month ago and had to ask...since then I've put a couple people on ignore and the board is MUCH more enjoyable than it already was...and I already thought this was the best board I'm on. Learn to roll with the punches, and give it back, and the football talk will soon be all over in your eyes. Maybe that is why I see the football talk and you don't. I know what "smack" is actually smack and what is just sarcasm, and let it roll.
kuntryboimike is a perfect example of a Liberty poster who has been here for a while and rolls with the smack and gives it right back.
This is all another reason to read as many threads as you can on this site. The more you read, the more you understand each poster, and trust me don't let the title of the thread deter you from reading it. You WILL miss something good.
Catmom had a good angle too on the "Get Jumped In" aspect of being on this board.
They are great spokesman for this area. Ask either one of them and I bet they would tell ya that they were a bit taken aback and the level and depth of the outward crustiness of a lot of us on here.
They soon realized that it was in fun and then joined in. Both are very important member that contribute a lot to the board and I'm glad they had fortitude to not just close the door over here cuz I know they've had a lot of fun and added a lot of fun.
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Re: The FCS Elimination Game
75, please do not post old totals...ever. Just post what the corrected total should be, say that it is not a vote but a correction, and cite where the mistake occurred as evidence.McNeese75 wrote:
I posted the above at 8:56 on Friday and at 8:59 another post hit and did not include my changes. Following is Screaming Eagle's post to correct McNeese to 37 after my post above. The following should go forward.
That is all you need to do. DON'T QUOTE OLD TOTALS....EVER. We have too many people that have too tough of a time with the whole ordeal.
Re: The FCS Elimination Game
Montana -
Liberty +
Albany 16
Appalachian State 76
Arkansas PB 8
Bryant 27
Butler 23
Central Connecticut 22
Delaware 85
Duquesne 33
Eastern Washington 46
Elon 31
Fordham 11
Gardner-Webb 52
Georgetown 12
Georgia Southern 31
Hampton 7
Howard 10
Jackson State 11
Jacksonville State 49
Lafayette 11
Liberty 59
Marist 3
McNeese State 37
Mississippi Valley State 6
Missouri State 22
Montana 70
Montana State 13
Murray State 40
North Carolina Central 7
North Dakota 20
Northern Arizona 36
Northern Iowa 36
Northwestern State 53
Sacramento State 68
Savannah State 10
South Dakota State 17
Southern 17
Texas State 39
Towson 38
Wagner 32
Western Carolina 32
William & Mary 38
Liberty +
Albany 16
Appalachian State 76
Arkansas PB 8
Bryant 27
Butler 23
Central Connecticut 22
Delaware 85
Duquesne 33
Eastern Washington 46
Elon 31
Fordham 11
Gardner-Webb 52
Georgetown 12
Georgia Southern 31
Hampton 7
Howard 10
Jackson State 11
Jacksonville State 49
Lafayette 11
Liberty 59
Marist 3
McNeese State 37
Mississippi Valley State 6
Missouri State 22
Montana 70
Montana State 13
Murray State 40
North Carolina Central 7
North Dakota 20
Northern Arizona 36
Northern Iowa 36
Northwestern State 53
Sacramento State 68
Savannah State 10
South Dakota State 17
Southern 17
Texas State 39
Towson 38
Wagner 32
Western Carolina 32
William & Mary 38
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Re: The FCS Elimination Game
Montana +
Liberty -
Albany 16
Appalachian State 76
Arkansas PB 8
Bryant 27
Butler 23
Central Connecticut 22
Delaware 85
Duquesne 33
Eastern Washington 46
Elon 31
Fordham 11
Gardner-Webb 52
Georgetown 12
Georgia Southern 31
Hampton 7
Howard 10
Jackson State 11
Jacksonville State 49
Lafayette 11
Liberty 58
Marist 3
McNeese State 37
Mississippi Valley State 6
Missouri State 22
Montana 71
Montana State 13
Murray State 40
North Carolina Central 7
North Dakota 20
Northern Arizona 36
Northern Iowa 36
Northwestern State 53
Sacramento State 68
Savannah State 10
South Dakota State 17
Southern 17
Texas State 39
Towson 38
Wagner 32
Western Carolina 32
William & Mary 38
Liberty -
Albany 16
Appalachian State 76
Arkansas PB 8
Bryant 27
Butler 23
Central Connecticut 22
Delaware 85
Duquesne 33
Eastern Washington 46
Elon 31
Fordham 11
Gardner-Webb 52
Georgetown 12
Georgia Southern 31
Hampton 7
Howard 10
Jackson State 11
Jacksonville State 49
Lafayette 11
Liberty 58
Marist 3
McNeese State 37
Mississippi Valley State 6
Missouri State 22
Montana 71
Montana State 13
Murray State 40
North Carolina Central 7
North Dakota 20
Northern Arizona 36
Northern Iowa 36
Northwestern State 53
Sacramento State 68
Savannah State 10
South Dakota State 17
Southern 17
Texas State 39
Towson 38
Wagner 32
Western Carolina 32
William & Mary 38
- ODUalum11
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Re: The FCS Elimination Game
I can't believe Liberty fans actually recruit to try and win this thing.
- kardplayer
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- I am a fan of: Lehigh
Re: The FCS Elimination Game
Marist +
Liberty -
Albany 16
Appalachian State 76
Arkansas PB 8
Bryant 27
Butler 23
Central Connecticut 22
Delaware 85
Duquesne 33
Eastern Washington 46
Elon 31
Fordham 11
Gardner-Webb 52
Georgetown 12
Georgia Southern 31
Hampton 7
Howard 10
Jackson State 11
Jacksonville State 49
Lafayette 11
Liberty 57
Marist 4
McNeese State 37
Mississippi Valley State 6
Missouri State 22
Montana 71
Montana State 13
Murray State 40
North Carolina Central 7
North Dakota 20
Northern Arizona 36
Northern Iowa 36
Northwestern State 53
Sacramento State 68
Savannah State 10
South Dakota State 17
Southern 17
Texas State 39
Towson 38
Wagner 32
Western Carolina 32
William & Mary 38
Liberty -
Albany 16
Appalachian State 76
Arkansas PB 8
Bryant 27
Butler 23
Central Connecticut 22
Delaware 85
Duquesne 33
Eastern Washington 46
Elon 31
Fordham 11
Gardner-Webb 52
Georgetown 12
Georgia Southern 31
Hampton 7
Howard 10
Jackson State 11
Jacksonville State 49
Lafayette 11
Liberty 57
Marist 4
McNeese State 37
Mississippi Valley State 6
Missouri State 22
Montana 71
Montana State 13
Murray State 40
North Carolina Central 7
North Dakota 20
Northern Arizona 36
Northern Iowa 36
Northwestern State 53
Sacramento State 68
Savannah State 10
South Dakota State 17
Southern 17
Texas State 39
Towson 38
Wagner 32
Western Carolina 32
William & Mary 38
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Re: The FCS Elimination Game
kardplayer wrote:Marist +
Liberty -
Albany 16
Appalachian State 76
Arkansas PB 8
Bryant 27
Butler 23
Central Connecticut 22
Delaware 85
Duquesne 33
Eastern Washington 46
Elon 31
Fordham 11
Gardner-Webb 52
Georgetown 12
Georgia Southern 31
Hampton 7
Howard 10
Jackson State 11
Jacksonville State 49
Lafayette 11
Liberty 57
Marist 4
McNeese State 37
Mississippi Valley State 6
Missouri State 22
Montana 71
Montana State 13
Murray State 40
North Carolina Central 7
North Dakota 20
Northern Arizona 36
Northern Iowa 36
Northwestern State 53
Sacramento State 68
Savannah State 10
South Dakota State 17
Southern 17
Texas State 39
Towson 38
Wagner 32
Western Carolina 32
William & Mary 38
Re: The FCS Elimination Game
Got it. I could not figure out how to delete the post and it just went FUBAR from thereUrsus A. Horribilis wrote:75, please do not post old totals...ever. Just post what the corrected total should be, say that it is not a vote but a correction, and cite where the mistake occurred as evidence.McNeese75 wrote:
I posted the above at 8:56 on Friday and at 8:59 another post hit and did not include my changes. Following is Screaming Eagle's post to correct McNeese to 37 after my post above. The following should go forward.
That is all you need to do. DON'T QUOTE OLD TOTALS....EVER. We have too many people that have too tough of a time with the whole ordeal.
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Re: The FCS Elimination Game
Why the hell not? I mean recruiting for it just shows a level of passion about their team and want to see them succeed right?futureodualum11 wrote:I can't believe Liberty fans actually recruit to try and win this thing.
If we all cared about it as much as they did then there would probably be a lot more fun happening on the mafucker.
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Re: The FCS Elimination Game
McNeese75 wrote:Got it. I could not figure out how to delete the post and it just went FUBAR from thereUrsus A. Horribilis wrote: 75, please do not post old totals...ever. Just post what the corrected total should be, say that it is not a vote but a correction, and cite where the mistake occurred as evidence.
That is all you need to do. DON'T QUOTE OLD TOTALS....EVER. We have too many people that have too tough of a time with the whole ordeal.
- ODUalum11
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Re: The FCS Elimination Game
I guess you make a good point. Just wondering if any of those who have made new accounts will actually continue to post on here.Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:Why the hell not? I mean recruiting for it just shows a level of passion about their team and want to see them succeed right?futureodualum11 wrote:I can't believe Liberty fans actually recruit to try and win this thing.
If we all cared about it as much as they did then there would probably be a lot more fun happening on the mafucker.
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Re: The FCS Elimination Game
Well I guess futureodu is the newest member we can add to the idiot pile we have going huh?
JEEZUS FUCKING CHRIST!!!!
WHAT DID I JUST FUCKING SAY!!!!!!!
JEEZUS FUCKING CHRIST!!!!
WHAT DID I JUST FUCKING SAY!!!!!!!
- CatMom
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Re: The FCS Elimination Game
It's better than what I've gotten in the past, which ranged from totally being ignored or asked how I could be a loyal Bobcat Fan yet post on another forum
- CatMom
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Re: The FCS Elimination Game
temper, temper there Ursus.Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:Well I guess futureodu is the newest member we can add to the idiot pile we have going huh?
JEEZUS FUCKING CHRIST!!!!
WHAT DID I JUST FUCKING SAY!!!!!!!
Don't post angry
Things you really want could be taken away very easily
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Re: The FCS Elimination Game
Look, don't take this personally but why not try to give us an original thought on the subject?futureodualum11 wrote:I guess you make a good point. Just wondering if any of those who have made new accounts will actually continue to post on here.Ursus A. Horribilis wrote: Why the hell not? I mean recruiting for it just shows a level of passion about their team and want to see them succeed right?
If we all cared about it as much as they did then there would probably be a lot more fun happening on the mafucker.
You do realize that same pathetic point is now WAY MORE FUCKING ANNOYING than the original problem pointed out right?
Holy shit balls people why don't we just sit around and jerk each other off with the same exact point over and fucking over and fucking over...
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Re: The FCS Elimination Game
No they really couldn't.CatMom wrote:temper, temper there Ursus.Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:Well I guess futureodu is the newest member we can add to the idiot pile we have going huh?
JEEZUS FUCKING CHRIST!!!!
WHAT DID I JUST FUCKING SAY!!!!!!!
Don't post angry
Things you really want could be taken away very easily
- Screamin_Eagle174
- Supporter
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- A.K.A.: SE174
- Location: Spokanistan
Re: The FCS Elimination Game
This thread is full of so much fail, that it becomes a WIN.
- ODUalum11
- Level3
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Re: The FCS Elimination Game
I knew I should have kept silent on the whole Liberty recruiting issue. I apologize if I upset you ursus, I have better stuff to do then piss people off on message boards. FWIW, I can care less if someone recruits for this game...it was more just a simple observation.Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:Look, don't take this personally but why not try to give us an original thought on the subject?futureodualum11 wrote:
I guess you make a good point. Just wondering if any of those who have made new accounts will actually continue to post on here.
You do realize that same pathetic point is now WAY MORE **** ANNOYING than the original problem pointed out right?
Holy **** balls people why don't we just sit around and jerk each other off with the same exact point over and **** over and **** over...