Just plain hate! Richmond vs JMU

[Spiders05]

Aftermath of the 2008 JMU game. . . lots of streamers

Aftermath of the 2008 National Championship game...lots of streamers and confetti.

[jd of de]

It's good to see the CAA schools finally get back to the business of hating on each other instead of banding together like a bunch of sissies.

12 years - 5 FCS Championships from 5 schools; sissy that.

[BDKJMU]

I looked at your signees from the last 3 seasons on Rivals, and according to them, you are correct on the 5 you mentioned, but there aren't any additional to those 5. So we might have a tie there.

Assuming there are no others (I haven't researched but have no reason not to take your word) ... you wouldn't consider 8 out of 10 kids over 3 seasons having Richmond as their 1st choice versus being an interesting trend?

Huh? In the last 3 recruiting years, Rivals (which doesn't show all of JMU's signeess for 08'-09'), shows 5 who JMU offered who chose UR, and 5 who UR offered who chose JMU. So what is this 8 out of 10 you're talking about?

No doubt in my mind that come the 2012 recruiting class and beyond, Bridgeforth is going to be more of a recruiting advantage than UR's new stadium.

[jrj1976urspider]

So you say that come 2012 JMU will have a definite advantage over Richmond, due to JMU's stadium capacity being much larger than UR's stadium in the recruiting wars. I guess that in your estimation Richmnd should drop football. Well I don't think that will happen. In the future there will hopefully be an expansion of UR's seating capacity. Plus, a number of posters have noted on other websites that Richmnd will always be at a disadvantage in recruiting in that UR's entrance requirements are tougher than many of the state schools that Richmond plays.

[PenthouseClosedEnd]

Assuming there are no others (I haven't researched but have no reason not to take your word) ... you wouldn't consider 8 out of 10 kids over 3 seasons having Richmond as their 1st choice versus being an interesting trend?

Huh? In the last 3 recruiting years, Rivals (which doesn't show all of JMU's signeess for 08'-09'), shows 5 who JMU offered who chose UR, and 5 who UR offered who chose JMU. So what is this 8 out of 10 you're talking about?

No doubt in my mind that come the 2012 recruiting class and beyond, Bridgeforth is going to be more of a recruiting advantage than UR's new stadium.

Uh, 5 of the kids committed to Richmond ... at least 3 more verballed to Richmond but couldn't get in due to academics and ended up as Barneys (and are probably hiding in Kinesiology classes now). 5 + 3 = 8.

JMU may be building the Raj Majal out in Harrisonburg but Mickey is becoming a limiting factor in your recruiting. I have spoken with several local HS coaches that substantiate this. It's why he's spending more time in Maryland and the DC Metro area.

You guys got Dejor Simmons because Mike London couldn't guarantee him a spot until too late and Mickey gave him the hard sell.

Most of the other 3 stars you landed have the last name of Rose. Not sure how many more Roses that Mr and Mrs Rose spawned.

[CAA Flagship]

Biggest crowds I can recall in my history of UR football since 96 are UR-WM in 1998, UR-JMU 08, UR-WM 2009.

Pretty good crowds for VMI games, but nothing near those others.

Sounds like the "crowds" were there to see W&M and JMU. Pull off a sellout against Virginia Union (D-II), Presby, or Campbell and we'll be impressed.
It's better when you can say that the crowd was there to see the "home" team play.

[PenthouseClosedEnd]

Biggest crowds I can recall in my history of UR football since 96 are UR-WM in 1998, UR-JMU 08, UR-WM 2009.

Pretty good crowds for VMI games, but nothing near those others.

Sounds like the "crowds" were there to see W&M and JMU. Pull off a sellout against Virginia Union (D-II), Presby, or Campbell and we'll be impressed.
It's better when you can say that the crowd was there to see the "home" team play.

We would, but we can't get them on the schedule. Those teams are tied up, having pillow fights with you guys in Norfolk on fall Saturdays.

[ur2K]

Biggest crowds I can recall in my history of UR football since 96 are UR-WM in 1998, UR-JMU 08, UR-WM 2009.

Pretty good crowds for VMI games, but nothing near those others.

Sounds like the "crowds" were there to see W&M and JMU. Pull off a sellout against Virginia Union (D-II), Presby, or Campbell and we'll be impressed.
It's better when you can say that the crowd was there to see the "home" team play.

Appreciate the brilliant commentary.

[BDKJMU]

Huh? In the last 3 recruiting years, Rivals (which doesn't show all of JMU's signeess for 08'-09'), shows 5 who JMU offered who chose UR, and 5 who UR offered who chose JMU. So what is this 8 out of 10 you're talking about?

No doubt in my mind that come the 2012 recruiting class and beyond, Bridgeforth is going to be more of a recruiting advantage than UR's new stadium.

Uh, 5 of the kids committed to Richmond ... at least 3 more verballed to Richmond but couldn't get in due to academics and ended up as Barneys (and are probably hiding in Kinesiology classes now). 5 + 3 = 8.

JMU may be building the Raj Majal out in Harrisonburg but Mickey is becoming a limiting factor in your recruiting. I have spoken with several local HS coaches that substantiate this. It's why he's spending more time in Maryland and the DC Metro area.

You guys got Dejor Simmons because Mike London couldn't guarantee him a spot until too late and Mickey gave him the hard sell.

Most of the other 3 stars you landed have the last name of Rose. Not sure how many more Roses that Mr and Mrs Rose spawned.

As I stated before, you make this claim but with no evidence to back it up. Anyone can make claims on the internet, but unless you got a link to back it up, it doesn't amount to much.

[BDKJMU]

I'm calling BS unless you have some type of evidence. The 4 I listed were all offered by UR as you can see by clicking on the link then clicking on under "College choices" "show all". UR wouldn't give them an offer if they couldn't get them in.

Now lets see if you can come up with 5 that UR signed in the last 3 yrs who were also offered by JMU.

http://www.recruitrecon.com/index.php?o ... Itemid=342" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://recruitrecon.com/index.php?optio ... Itemid=342" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's 6 in just the last two years...

Schools offer kids who don't qualify all the time. Offers often go out before a senior year has begun. 1/4 of their HS career is left and for many athletes, tests have not yet been taken. Dre'Quan Scott was a perfect example. At this point, it would seem you got the raw end of the deal on that, pending his felony....

Count again. Recruitrecon shows 5 UR signees in the last 2 classes as having offers from JMU, not 6 as you claim. On the other hand, it does show 6 JMU signees in the last 2 classes as having offers from UR.

Recruitrecon shows kids from both schools as having offers from the other that Rivals doesn't show. Recruitrecon seems a little dubious to me in the avg amount of offers they show for all the signees (that goes for signees from all all schools).

Again, I was correct in according to Rivals, thats 5 signees for each school from the last 3 recruiting seasons who were offered by the other school.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/r ... -196#page1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruit ... chmond-198" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Spiders05]

BDK, perhaps you should recount yourself...4 in c/o 2010 and 2 in c/o 2009.

As for the kids not getting scores/grades (typically scores) for UR, typically this isn't public info. However, in the case of Mr. Scott, there was a DNR article where he mentioned he didn't have high enough SAT scores for UR. http://www.dailynews-record.com/sports_ ... 422&CHID=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I can't speak to the others factually, but it wouldn't be surprising for some to fall short. UR has higher academic standards than JMU. Not a snub, just a fact (collaborated by DQ's comments in the paper as well.

[BDKJMU]

http://www.recruitrecon.com/index.php?o ... Itemid=342" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://recruitrecon.com/index.php?optio ... Itemid=342" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's 6 in just the last two years...

Count again. Recruitrecon shows 5 UR signees in the last 2 classes as having offers from JMU, not 6 as you claim. On the other hand, it does show 6 JMU signees in the last 2 classes as having offers from UR.

Recruitrecon shows kids from both schools as having offers from the other that Rivals doesn't show. Recruitrecon seems a little dubious to me in the avg amount of offers they show for all the signees (that goes for signees from all all schools).

BDK, perhaps you should recount yourself...4 in c/o 2010 and 2 in c/o 2009.

Dude, look again. 4 in the 2010' class and ONE in 2009', Jacob Pierce. Thats 5.

[State Line Liquors]

Every time I open this thread I get a very cold, even sinister, feeling.

[BDKJMU]

BDK, perhaps you should recount yourself...4 in c/o 2010 and 2 in c/o 2009.

As for the kids not getting scores/grades (typically scores) for UR, typically this isn't public info. However, in the case of Mr. Scott, there was a DNR article where he mentioned he didn't have high enough SAT scores for UR. http://www.dailynews-record.com/sports_ ... 422&CHID=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I can't speak to the others factually, but it wouldn't be surprising for some to fall short. UR has higher academic standards than JMU. Not a snub, just a fact (collaborated by DQ's comments in the paper as well.

What you say may all be true, but you've got all kinds of posters made all kinds of claims on here. When you have a poster, esp one without a long track record on here, from say school "A" state a bunch of school "B's" specific recruits over the last several years would have signed with school A if if wasn't for school A's higher academic standards, then you have to have something to back it up or people are going to take it with a grain of salt. This is mentioned in the DNR Scott article you gave a link to, but I haven't seen any articles mentioning this for any of those other JMU signees who also were offered by UR.

Scott may have very well have backed out of his committment to UR and signed with JMU due to needing to take the SAT again and get a higher score, but he claims that wasn't the reason.

Since you have to have a subscription to read the whole Daily News Record Article:
"HARRISONBURG - Dae'Quan Scott visited a college, met with its football coaches, liked what he saw and announced that his recruitment was over. The speedy, versatile R.E. Lee High School senior had decided to play for the University of Richmond. That was in late November.

But when Scott signed his national letter of intent this month, he pledged his services to the state's other NCAA Division I-AA power - James Madison.

What happened in between?

"I just made the mistake at first by committing too early," Scott said this week. "If I'm going to tell some younger kids, guys that look up to me, I'll tell them to go to every visit, every college you like. Pick after you have seen every place."

High school seniors who orally commit to a college are not bound to that choice. The NCAA doesn't recognize the verbal commitment and deems nothing official until a player signs his letter of intent in February.

In the time between players announcing their intentions and actually signing on the dotted line, college coaches can continue to recruit them. And, coaches say, that's a pretty common practice.

"It used to bother me a lot more a long time ago," New Hampshire coach Sean McDonnell said. "When I first became a head coach, there was an unwritten rule that once a kid commits, you let it go. It used to bother me a lot more. Right now I think it's the expected norm in the business. It's not right. But you have to be prepared."

Richmond coach Mike London, who lost Scott - a 5-foot-9, 190-pound quarterback who will likely play wide receiver in college - to JMU, agreed.

"The days of the handshake kind of signed the deal, that's about over in a lot of circles," London said. "You have to understand that, until signing day, things happen in the last minute."

In Scott's case, he committed shortly after Lee's football season ended with a Region III title-game loss to Brookville. He informed Richmond coaches on Nov. 23.

JMU assistant coach Clayton Matthews "had developed a good relationship with Dae'Quan over the summer," his father, JMU head coach Mickey Matthews said. So when he picked up a newspaper on

Nov. 25 and saw that Scott had orally committed to the Spiders, he was - to say the least - surprised. "We were stunned when we read in the newspaper he committed to Richmond, because we kind of thought we were doing pretty good," Mickey Matthews said during a press conference on signing day, Feb. 4. "To Clayton's credit he said, ‘Dad, don't worry, I'm still going to get him.'"

For a while after his oral commitment to Richmond, things were all quiet on Scott's recruiting front, he said. College recruiters weren't permitted, under NCAA rules, to contact prospects again until Nov. 30.

But once that date came, Scott said two or three schools - including JMU - reached out to him to gauge how solid his commitment to the Spiders actually was. Turns out, it wasn't. He said he simply decided he'd made his choice too quickly and wanted to check out other schools.

"I let everybody know that my options were still open," Scott said.

Matthews said Wednesday the Dukes do not recruit players who ask not to be contacted.

"If an athlete tells us he is committed somewhere and he does not want to be recruited, we honor that request," Matthews said. "Dae'quan, there was no question he had a sincere interest investigating James Madison. If a recruit and a family wants, we will cease recruiting at any point."

Scott took an official visit to JMU and decided, among other things, that he fit better into the Dukes' spread offense.

Although there also was a question of academics - Scott said he was NCAA qualified but needed a better SAT score to qualify under Richmond's stricter standards - it apparently wasn't why the Lee star re-opened his recruitment.

"I'm qualified, but for Richmond you had to have something higher," Scott said, adding he was confident he would have achieved the higher score if he had retaken the test. "That wasn't a factor."

London, a Richmond alum who led the school to the NCAA Division I-AA national championship this past season, declined to answer when asked how he felt about JMU and Matthews continuing to recruit Scott after the Lee senior had orally committed to the Spiders.

"I have no comment on that," London, a former Virginia and Boston College assistant, said.

He did say, however, that keeping in contact with recruits to determine how solidly they are committed is part of the game.

"If a kid says he's firm, we don't mess with him anymore," London said. "If a kid says, ‘Coach you can keep calling,' then he's not as firm as he's alluded to."

For coaches, that means two things. First, they have to continue recruiting prospects even after they've orally committed.

"Every day. Every day. Every day," McDonnell said. "You don't call him every day, but you want to make sure you know. You're going to visit him, contact him once a week, some way, some how. I think you've got to."

But with more and more oral commitments backing out and switching schools - often late in the recruiting process - college coaches must also continue contacting backup prospects. In other words, they must keep recruiting tailback B in case tailback A decommits just before signing day.

"You have to craft your recruiting strategy around that," London said. "You have to be diligent and make sure you don't stop recruiting."

Battles like the one for Scott only heighten the already tense rivalry between JMU and UR. In 2005, wide receiver Kevin Grayson backed out of his oral commitment to James Madison and signed with Richmond. At the same time, tailback Griff Yancey signed with the Dukes despite having orally committed to Richmond.

But Matthews doesn't think JMU did anything wrong in landing Scott and doesn't think London has any problem with the Dukes' tactics.

"I don't think so. Not at all," Matthews said. "I wouldn't think so."

From Scott's standpoint, the whole recruiting process ended up working itself out in the end and he said Tuesday he is looking forward to playing for the Dukes.

"Everything just falls in place," he said."

[bandl]

Autism is fun.

[Kim Peek]

Spiders05, give it up. You are clearly outmatched by our wit and brain power. I haven't even thrown my Kmart underwear in the ring yet and BDK has already pulled a Wapner on you.

Autism is fun.

[Spiders05]

Count again. Recruitrecon shows 5 UR signees in the last 2 classes as having offers from JMU, not 6 as you claim. On the other hand, it does show 6 JMU signees in the last 2 classes as having offers from UR.

Recruitrecon shows kids from both schools as having offers from the other that Rivals doesn't show. Recruitrecon seems a little dubious to me in the avg amount of offers they show for all the signees (that goes for signees from all all schools).

BDK, perhaps you should recount yourself...4 in c/o 2010 and 2 in c/o 2009.

Dude, look again. 4 in the 2010' class and ONE in 2009', Jacob Pierce. Thats 5.

I know it was an oversight, but you're not helping your cause. Look at Alex Asher....he's two, which makes a total of six.

http://recruitrecon.com/index.php?optio ... Itemid=342" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Spiders05]

BDK, the fact is that he was committed to UR, didn't have the SAT score to get in. Rather than retaking his test (and not getting his results until after signing day), he did what he had to do, and went to a program he could get in. Had he retaken the test, and still not raised it enough, he would have been scrambling to find a school that still had spots available.

Of course he said his SAT score wasn't the reason. Would you want to look too stupid to get into the school you want to in the newspaper? In the end, he went where he could. Any idea on the results of his legal issues?

[PenthouseClosedEnd]

Let's go ahead and assume all these kids just wanted to get the Kinesiology Degree with the Sports Management Concentration at JMU ... and grades have nothing to do with it.

You're still only beating the team with the "Red Sweater wearing fans with a puny stadium with pumped in crowd noise and no band" half the time on recruits.

How in the world does this happen?

[JMU DJ]

.... are you guys really arguing over a 50-50 split?


P.S. How come Richmond doesn't list the majors of their Football players? You'd figure a bastion of academic integrity would like to flaunt their football teams choice of non-basket weaving majors.

[PenthouseClosedEnd]

Yes, even though its really like 80-20 because of the grades thing. Can you respond to my query from the prior post? How in the world aren't you guys beating us on more of these kids?

We'll see what we can do to get majors on Richmondspiders.com. You'll see a good number of kids getting a Major from a Top 20 business school nationally. I believe they are listed in the Gameday programs.

By the way, I love how the other guy says I don't have enough posts here to have a credible opinion. I had over 1000 at AGS before Syntax Error gave me -1M Rep Points and I began posting over here.

[Spiders05]

P.S. How come Richmond doesn't list the majors of their Football players? You'd figure a bastion of academic integrity would like to flaunt their football teams choice of non-basket weaving majors.

DJ, I'm assuming you're insinuating that we have a haven for athletes the way that you do. Here's an excerpt from a report commissioned during the Cooper years (he had it out for athletes). Unfortunately for you, the report found that we don't have anything nearly like your Kinesiology major with a sports management concentration.

D.) Student athlete Majors Compared to Majors of Student Non-athletes
Appendix 11 shows the distribution of athletes and non-athletes by major in the 1999 and 2000 entering classes, the only ones for which we have complete data through graduation. For many majors the numbers of students are too small to permit meaningful comparisons. Nevertheless, the data allow a number of important observations, outlined below.

• The results show that athletes and non-athletes find the social sciences and business to be popular majors. However, the differences between the numbers of student athletes and student non-athletes are not statistically significant.

• The only major that attracted student athletes in significantly higher proportion than student non-athletes is Rhetoric and Communication Studies, in which athletes majored at a rate two-and-a-half times that of non-athletes.

• Grade distributions among Arts and Sciences departments from 2000 to the present, prepared by the Registrar’s Office, indicate that the grading in Rhetoric and Communication Studies, year by year, is not significantly different from the average for the School of Arts and Sciences generally.

• A significantly smaller percentage of athletes than non-athletes majored in Accounting, English, and Journalism.
We found little evidence that athletes seek out particular majors in a pattern that differs from undergraduates in general, and, in the one case in which they do, there is no evidence that grading standards play a role in that choice.

The Committee viewed this as a very positive finding, especially given what many believe to be easier routes to graduation for athletes in other schools. The University not only has high graduation rates for student athletes, but these student athlete graduates tend to represent the same range of diverse academic interests as our general student body.

Meanwhile, I found it interesting that according to your 2009 statistical summary, less than 5% of students graduate with a degree in Kinesiology. (http://www.jmu.edu/instresrch/statsum/2 ... 3_2009.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) In fact 177 degrees were conferred out of 3,630 (4.876%) last year. According to your roster, 10 of the 11 (90.909%) seniors on this year's squad are Kinesiology majors (of course they also have a sports management concentration).

I wonder what it is about that program that makes football players so attracted to it. In fact, if you play football at JMU, according to information JMU has released about this senior class, you're about 19x more likely to major in Kinesiology than if you are a regular student.

[Eight Legger]

It seems a fair assumption that JMU simply made the decision several years ago to put a major emphasis on kinesiology with sports management concentration and is doing all it can to become the premiere institution in the nation for this particular specialty. It will no doubt open a new Graduate School of Kinesiology soon with money donated from its legions of NFL players, most of whom it stole from UR with the promise that the new building would one day bear their names. I suspect fundraising efforts are already underway for the McGhee-Landers-Moats School of KWSMC, which initially will accept 125 students a year but then will be partially torn down and rebuilt to accommodate as many as 34,000 additional students within 10 years.

[ur2K]

It seems a fair assumption that JMU simply made the decision several years ago to put a major emphasis on kinesiology with sports management concentration and is doing all it can to become the premiere institution in the nation for this particular specialty. It will no doubt open a new Graduate School of Kinesiology soon with money donated from its legions of NFL players, most of whom it stole from UR with the promise that the new building would one day bear their names. I suspect fundraising efforts are already underway for the McGhee-Landers-Moats School of KWSMC, which initially will accept 125 students a year but then will be partially torn down and rebuilt to accommodate as many as 34,000 additional students within 10 years.

Will the KWSMC have a track?

[PenthouseClosedEnd]

It seems a fair assumption that JMU simply made the decision several years ago to put a major emphasis on kinesiology with sports management concentration and is doing all it can to become the premiere institution in the nation for this particular specialty. It will no doubt open a new Graduate School of Kinesiology soon with money donated from its legions of NFL players, most of whom it stole from UR with the promise that the new building would one day bear their names. I suspect fundraising efforts are already underway for the McGhee-Landers-Moats School of KWSMC, which initially will accept 125 students a year but then will be partially torn down and rebuilt to accommodate as many as 34,000 additional students within 10 years.

Will the KWSMC have a track?

What about a holding cell?