GM investing $500M in Mexico plant

[yosef1969]

You seriously have a reading comprehension issue don't you? The fact that they have high union overhead is a result of poor management but it still doesn't change the fact that labor cost (inflated by the unions) is major factor in why the big 3 are at a competitive disadvantage and rather than manufacture cars in the US they go to Mexico for cheaper labor.

Why don't they just build plants in right-to-work states like the foreign car makers are doing?

Interesting question, why do think? Another example of poor management. They don't want to risk upsetting the "delicate balance" with labor in the US. Mexican autoworkers are unionized and yet still much cheaper than US union members. If the big 3 went with non union workers they would have crap storm on their hands.

[Grizalltheway]

Why don't they just build plants in right-to-work states like the foreign car makers are doing?

Interesting question, why do think? Another example of poor management. They don't want to risk upsetting the "delicate balance" with labor in the US. Mexican autoworkers are unionized and yet still much cheaper than US union members. If the big 3 went with non union workers they would have crap storm on their hands.

Shouldn't they, in theory at least, have a crap storm on their hands for investing so much in a Mexican plant at a time when unemployment is hovering at 10%?

[yosef1969]

You seriously have a reading comprehension issue don't you? The fact that they have high union overhead is a result of poor management but it still doesn't change the fact that labor cost (inflated by the unions) is major factor in why the big 3 are at a competitive disadvantage and rather than manufacture cars in the US they go to Mexico for cheaper labor.

Well which is it, yo?

Unions caused wages and benefits to be raised ACROSS THE BOARD to an unsustainable point including non-union workers? So why are the foreign companies profitable with all that "unsustainable" non-union labor cost?
Methinks you have a little comprehension problem of your own.

No, just a highlighting problem. Was agreeing with the portion that poorly run companies should be allowed to fail.

[yosef1969]

Interesting question, why do think? Another example of poor management. They don't want to risk upsetting the "delicate balance" with labor in the US. Mexican autoworkers are unionized and yet still much cheaper than US union members. If the big 3 went with non union workers they would have crap storm on their hands.

Shouldn't they, in theory at least, have a crap storm on their hands for investing so much in a Mexican plant at a time when unemployment is hovering at 10%?

You'd think but it will go largely unnoticed by the general public. Labor can't politcally force the issue without exposing their cost.

[Grizalltheway]

Shouldn't they, in theory at least, have a crap storm on their hands for investing so much in a Mexican plant at a time when unemployment is hovering at 10%?

You'd think but it will go largely unnoticed by the general public. Labor can't politcally force the issue without exposing their cost.

Troof.

[houndawg]

Why don't they just build plants in right-to-work states like the foreign car makers are doing?

Interesting question, why do think? Another example of poor management. They don't want to risk upsetting the "delicate balance" with labor in the US. Mexican autoworkers are unionized and yet still much cheaper than US union members. If the big 3 went with non union workers they would have crap storm on their hands.

So the problem isn't unions, it's wages?

[Skjellyfetti]

Interesting question, why do think? Another example of poor management. They don't want to risk upsetting the "delicate balance" with labor in the US. Mexican autoworkers are unionized and yet still much cheaper than US union members. If the big 3 went with non union workers they would have crap storm on their hands.

So the problem isn't unions, it's wages?

Yes. Exactly. I tried to establish that on page one.

[houndawg]

So the problem isn't unions, it's wages?

Yes. Exactly. I tried to establish that on page one.

Try the "Guns don't kill people, people kill people approach".

[yosef1969]

Interesting question, why do think? Another example of poor management. They don't want to risk upsetting the "delicate balance" with labor in the US. Mexican autoworkers are unionized and yet still much cheaper than US union members. If the big 3 went with non union workers they would have crap storm on their hands.

So the problem isn't unions, it's wages?

I feel like we're talking in circles here, but it's both.
Unions in the US add more to the cost of wages the unions in other countries. And yes (this is the part I was referring to when I suggested you have a comprehension problem) this is due in part to poor management, so i'm agreeing with your main point. That is why they should have been allowed to fail in the first place. The Big 3 would face a serious uphill battle politically if they were to take the accumulated benefits from years of poor negotiating away from the union workers. But if they would have been allowed to fail they would have gotten out from under all the legacy baggage.

The real question is if unions aren't the primary difference then why else is GM choosing to produce in Mexico while the foreign car makers are producing in the US?

[OL FU]

So the problem isn't unions, it's wages?

I feel like we're talking in circles here, but it's both.
Unions in the US add more to the cost of wages the unions in other countries. And yes (this is the part I was referring to when I suggested you have a comprehension problem) this is due in part to poor management, so i'm agreeing with your main point. That is why they should have been allowed to fail in the first place. The Big 3 would face a serious uphill battle politically if they were to take the accumulated benefits from years of poor negotiating away from the union workers. But if they would have been allowed to fail they would have gotten out from under all the legacy baggage.

The real question is if unions aren't the primary difference then why else is GM choosing to produce in Mexico while the foreign car makers are producing in the US?

Great Beaches

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

A much more low-tech way to do this would be to produce a 6 cylinder engine and realize a 25% increase in fuel efficiency. Am I the only one who thinks this article was designed to fool idiots?

Or go to a 6 cylinder diesel, which would have more torque and get 50% better mileage.

At any rate, it's great to see GM putting Mexicans back to work.

I'll stick to my American-made Hondas and soon to be (new plant in Chattanooga) VWs.

Ya know, I think I can blame this on GM as well. They were one of the first American car companies to bring a diesel engine to market in a car/pickup in the US. The problem was, they bolted some diesel engine heads on a 350 and it just didn't hold up and made people not want to buy a diesel.

I really don't know why we don't use more diesel powered vehicles in the US, it baffles me. I own a diesel car and won't go back to getting under 45mpg again. You can keep your slow battery pack powered "hybrids", I'm sticking with diesel

[yosef1969]

BTW, I am not opposed to all labor unions. They do still serve a purpose in keeping employers honest and doing what's generally right for their employees. Saw this first hand in a previous career where the threat of a union pressured management to do the right thing on their own eliminating the need for the union. However when labor gets as influential as UAW they are no longer a benefit and actually become an obstacle to efficient management.

[yosef1969]

I feel like we're talking in circles here, but it's both.
Unions in the US add more to the cost of wages the unions in other countries. And yes (this is the part I was referring to when I suggested you have a comprehension problem) this is due in part to poor management, so i'm agreeing with your main point. That is why they should have been allowed to fail in the first place. The Big 3 would face a serious uphill battle politically if they were to take the accumulated benefits from years of poor negotiating away from the union workers. But if they would have been allowed to fail they would have gotten out from under all the legacy baggage.

The real question is if unions aren't the primary difference then why else is GM choosing to produce in Mexico while the foreign car makers are producing in the US?

Great Beaches

Expensible vacation retreat...but then again the gov't just told the coast is all clear on the gulf. Why not just go there?

[BDKJMU]

Or go to a 6 cylinder diesel, which would have more torque and get 50% better mileage.

At any rate, it's great to see GM putting Mexicans back to work.

I'll stick to my American-made Hondas and soon to be (new plant in Chattanooga) VWs.

Ya know, I think I can blame this on GM as well. They were one of the first American car companies to bring a diesel engine to market in a car/pickup in the US. The problem was, they bolted some diesel engine heads on a 350 and it just didn't hold up and made people not want to buy a diesel.

I really don't know why we don't use more diesel powered vehicles in the US, it baffles me. I own a diesel car and won't go back to getting under 45mpg again. You can keep your slow battery pack powered "hybrids", I'm sticking with diesel

Environmentalists. Emission equipment has hampered the newer diesels (and driven up price) to the point that there is very little fuel economy benefit, over the increasingly efficient gasoline engines.

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

Ya know, I think I can blame this on GM as well. They were one of the first American car companies to bring a diesel engine to market in a car/pickup in the US. The problem was, they bolted some diesel engine heads on a 350 and it just didn't hold up and made people not want to buy a diesel.

I really don't know why we don't use more diesel powered vehicles in the US, it baffles me. I own a diesel car and won't go back to getting under 45mpg again. You can keep your slow battery pack powered "hybrids", I'm sticking with diesel

Environmentalists. Emission equipment has hampered the newer diesels (and driven up price) to the point that there is very little fuel economy benefit, over the increasingly efficient gasoline engines.

The new diesels are very clean and no more expensive than the Hybrids. The Hybrids would be more if they didn't have rebates and tax incentives. I beg to differ on the very little economy benefit, the hybids are gutless and no fun to drive. Drive a diesel sometime, the power is way better and the economy is still better. You will also get 2-3x the life expectancy out of a diesel. The gasoline engine is always going to be less efficient than a diesel engine, the physics of the fuel will always make it so.

[Skjellyfetti]

The new diesels are very clean and no more expensive than the Hybrids. The Hybrids would be more if they didn't have rebates and tax incentives. I beg to differ on the very little economy benefit, the hybids are gutless and no fun to drive. Drive a diesel sometime, the power is way better and the economy is still better. You will also get 2-3x the life expectancy out of a diesel. The gasoline engine is always going to be less efficient than a diesel engine, the physics of the fuel will always make it so.

Yup. I drive a diesel VW Jetta TDI and I love it.

[houndawg]

Ya know, I think I can blame this on GM as well. They were one of the first American car companies to bring a diesel engine to market in a car/pickup in the US. The problem was, they bolted some diesel engine heads on a 350 and it just didn't hold up and made people not want to buy a diesel.

I really don't know why we don't use more diesel powered vehicles in the US, it baffles me. I own a diesel car and won't go back to getting under 45mpg again. You can keep your slow battery pack powered "hybrids", I'm sticking with diesel

Environmentalists. Emission equipment has hampered the newer diesels (and driven up price) to the point that there is very little fuel economy benefit, over the increasingly efficient gasoline engines.

A little dated, lots of great diesels available in everything but a small pickup, and Mahindra is bringing those within the next year.

[BDKJMU]

Environmentalists. Emission equipment has hampered the newer diesels (and driven up price) to the point that there is very little fuel economy benefit, over the increasingly efficient gasoline engines.

A little dated, lots of great diesels available in everything but a small pickup, and Mahindra is bringing those within the next year.

Not your half tons, only you 3/4 and 1 tons.

[BDKJMU]

VW is possibly bringing a mid size diesel in the future, but there is 2 problems:

"The Amarok is currently built in Argentina and would be subject to the so-called "chicken tax," which levies a 25 percent tariff on pickups imported from most countries."

"And we wouldn't look for the Amarok to arrive with one of its sweet 2.0-liter four-cylinder diesel engines because it would cost too much to clean them up to meet U.S. emissions regulations."

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/08/ru ... .html#more" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The asinine "chicken tax", still in place thanks to Congress aquiescing to the UAW:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tac" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[houndawg]

VW is possibly bringing a mid size diesel in the future, but there is 2 problems:

"The Amarok is currently built in Argentina and would be subject to the so-called "chicken tax," which levies a 25 percent tariff on pickups imported from most countries."

"And we wouldn't look for the Amarok to arrive with one of its sweet 2.0-liter four-cylinder diesel engines because it would cost too much to clean them up to meet U.S. emissions regulations."

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/08/ru ... .html#more" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The asinine "chicken tax", still in place thanks to Congress aquiescing to the UAW:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tac" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The chicken tax can be avoided by assembling in the US. VW already has clean diesel autos in the US, and Mahindra is using Bosch's injection system.

[houndawg]

A little dated, lots of great diesels available in everything but a small pickup, and Mahindra is bringing those within the next year.

Not your half tons, only you 3/4 and 1 tons.

You're right.


I'd love to have a Toyota Hilux for a work truck.

[BDKJMU]

Hopefully by the next round of redesigns (2014) diesel will be an option for all the 1/2 tons:
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/07/of ... s-way.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you click on the article within the article, it mentions:
"....Our sources say the next Tundra will arrive by 2014, just in time to take on all-new full-size light-duty pickups expected from GM, Nissan and Ford. That time period is looking like it will be a replay of 2007-08, which also had a fast cadence of new half-ton introductions....."