A Welfare Check and a Voting Card

[Ivytalk]

If you don't pay a net income tax you shouldn't be able to vote.

**** it, let's just go back to only letting white male property owners vote.

I'd settle for just the property ownership requirement! That would separate the wheat from the chaff.

Typical NYT drivel.

[hank scorpio]

Very nice. An’ how’d you get that, eh? By exploitin’
the workers, by ’angin’ on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic an’ social differences in
our society! If there’s ever going to be any progress—

[Ivytalk]

Very nice. An’ how’d you get that, eh? By exploitin’
the workers, by ’angin’ on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic an’ social differences in
our society! If there’s ever going to be any progress—

Very good, you moistened bint! Or are you just a watery tart?

[dbackjon]

**** it, let's just go back to only letting white male property owners vote.

I'd settle for just the property ownership requirement! That would separate the wheat from the chaff.

Typical NYT drivel.

So how much property?

[LeadBolt]

Since there were no income taxes or sales taxes at the founding of our country, limiting the vote to property owners was in essence limiting it to direct tax payers (there were excise taxes).

The founding fathers were wary of spreading voting beyond those who paid to support the government and would be stuck with the bill for government largesse.

Reading some of their writings, they were afraid of their republic falling as Rome did from being weakened by the unsustainable tipping of the scales from those who paid for the government to those who were dependent upon the government for their support.

[From the class of 09]

I'd settle for just the property ownership requirement! That would separate the wheat from the chaff.

Typical NYT drivel.

So how much property?

Property ownership is not a good deciding factor because then you can get taxation without representation. That’s why it should be a simple net income tax equation. If you pay the IRS more than you get back in refunds and such, then you get a voters card for the year.

[Skjellyfetti]

Wow. This thread is sad. Fuck Republicans.

[Ivytalk]

I'd settle for just the property ownership requirement! That would separate the wheat from the chaff.

Typical NYT drivel.

So how much property?

About $500K in equity value should clear out the riffraff!

[blueballs]

Remember folks, the "right" to vote is not a "right," it is a priviledge given by statute and can be altered MOL any way the legislature desires. An example of this is the electoral college.

I'm all for limiting the "right" to vote or establishing minimum criteria based on education, income, criminal records, etc. It is actually in all our collective best interests.

[AshevilleApp]

Here's a Frenchman who had it figured out 100 years ago

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
Alexis de Tocqueville

1910? Frogs live a long time I guess.

[89Hen]

Wow. This thread is sad. Fuck Republicans.

You used to at least hide your colors a little bit.

[From the class of 09]

Wow. This thread is sad. **** Republicans.

Think about it the original idea was no taxation without representation right? So why not no representation without taxation? I'm looking for a logical argument against, not "why don't we limit it to white property owners" which I’m clearly not advocating.

[Skjellyfetti]

Remember folks, the "right" to vote is not a "right," it is a priviledge given by statute and can be altered MOL any way the legislature desires. An example of this is the electoral college.

I'm all for limiting the "right" to vote or establishing minimum criteria based on education, income, criminal records, etc. It is actually in all our collective best interests.

BULLSHIT. Voting is a right guaranteed by the Constitution. It's also a privilege. Just because it can be taken away doesn't mean it's not a right.

A convicted felon loses his right to vote. You believe it's only a privilege he loses. Ok. Do you also believe a felon that loses his right to own a firearm is only losing the PRIVILEGE to own a firearm? Doubtful.

[Skjellyfetti]

Here's a Frenchman who had it figured out 100 years ago

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Tocqueville didn't say that.

[LeadBolt]

How about:


"Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude."
Alexis de Tocqueville

[From the class of 09]

Here's a Frenchman who had it figured out 100 years ago

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Tocqueville didn't say that.

Who did?

[LeadBolt]

Here's a Frenchman who had it figured out 100 years ago

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Tocqueville didn't say that.

There are a couple of quote websites that you will need to correct then that attribute the quote above to de Tocqueville

[Skjellyfetti]

Tocqueville didn't say that.

Who did?

Elmer T. Peterson in a newpaper in Oklahoma in the 1950's.

[CitadelGrad]

Here's a Frenchman who had it figured out 100 years ago

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Tocqueville didn't say that.

It is widely attributed to him, but the attribution means very little. It's the substance that matters.

[Skjellyfetti]

There are a couple of quote websites that you will need to correct then that attribute the quote above to de Tocqueville

There are a shitload of quotes on websites like brainyquotes that are false. It's the fucking internet, dude.

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism", "those who sacrfice freedom for safety deserve neither" are a couple of the most well known.

[AZGrizFan]

Reading some of their writings, they were afraid of their republic falling as Rome did from being weakened by the unsustainable tipping of the scales from those who paid for the government to those who were dependent upon the government for their support.

It appears their crystal ball was working back then.

[hank scorpio]

Reading some of their writings, they were afraid of their republic falling as Rome did from being weakened by the unsustainable tipping of the scales from those who paid for the government to those who were dependent upon the government for their support.

It appears their crystal ball was working back then.

So Rome fell because it was a wellfare state?

[LeadBolt]

It appears their crystal ball was working back then.

So Rome fell because it was a wellfare state?

There are literally 100's of theories as to why the (Western) Roman Empire fell in the 5th century. One is that the native population of the Italian peninsula became a welfare state and hired those from the outlying areas of the Empire to defend it and to do the menial tasks that they would no longer perform.

[Bronco]

Seems like a sharp guy...I like lots of the quotes these web sites attribute to him.
I had never heard of him until I saw this Steve Wynn Video.

http://www.infowars.com/steve-wynn-takes-on-washington/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; <http://www.infowars.com/steve-wynn-takes-on-washington/>


More on Alexis de Tocquerville

In other words, a democratic government is the only one in which those who vote for a tax can escape the obligation to pay it.
Alexis de Tocqueville

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
Alexis de Tocqueville

There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle.
Alexis de Tocqueville

There are two things which a democratic people will always find very difficult - to begin a war and to end it.
Alexis de Tocqueville

There is hardly a political question in the United States which does not sooner or later turn into a judicial one.
Alexis de Tocqueville

When the past no longer illuminates the future, the spirit walks in darkness.
Alexis de Tocqueville

http://www.tocqueville.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


http://www.tocqueville.org/chap1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.gradesaver.com/author/alexis-tocqueville/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Skjellyfetti]

I don't see that quotation on those websites.

I didn't watch the video from infowars.... but, Alex Jones is a fucking nutcase.