Props to Ron Paul

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Props to Ron Paul

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Breaks with his son Rand and other "conservatives" to support property rights and the freedom of religion. Way to go. :nod:
Is the controversy over building a mosque near ground zero a grand distraction or a grand opportunity? Or is it, once again, grandiose demagoguery?

It has been said, “Nero fiddled while Rome burned.” Are we not overly preoccupied with this controversy, now being used in various ways by grandstanding politicians? It looks to me like the politicians are “fiddling while the economy burns.”

The debate should have provided the conservative defenders of property rights with a perfect example of how the right to own property also protects the 1st Amendment rights of assembly and religion by supporting the building of the mosque.

Instead, we hear lip service given to the property rights position while demanding that the need to be “sensitive” requires an all-out assault on the building of a mosque, several blocks from “ground zero.”

Just think of what might (not) have happened if the whole issue had been ignored and the national debate stuck with war, peace, and prosperity. There certainly would have been a lot less emotionalism on both sides. The fact that so much attention has been given the mosque debate, raises the question of just why and driven by whom?

In my opinion it has come from the neo-conservatives who demand continual war in the Middle East and Central Asia and are compelled to constantly justify it.

They never miss a chance to use hatred toward Muslims to rally support for the ill conceived preventative wars. A select quote from soldiers from in Afghanistan and Iraq expressing concern over the mosque is pure propaganda and an affront to their bravery and sacrifice.

The claim is that we are in the Middle East to protect our liberties is misleading. To continue this charade, millions of Muslims are indicted and we are obligated to rescue them from their religious and political leaders. And, we’re supposed to believe that abusing our liberties here at home and pursuing unconstitutional wars overseas will solve our problems.

The nineteen suicide bombers didn’t come from Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iran. Fifteen came from our ally Saudi Arabia, a country that harbors strong American resentment, yet we invade and occupy Iraq where no al Qaeda existed prior to 9/11.

Many fellow conservatives say they understand the property rights and 1st Amendment issues and don’t want a legal ban on building the mosque. They just want everybody to be “sensitive” and force, through public pressure, cancellation of the mosque construction.

This sentiment seems to confirm that Islam itself is to be made the issue, and radical religious Islamic views were the only reasons for 9/11. If it became known that 9/11 resulted in part from a desire to retaliate against what many Muslims saw as American aggression and occupation, the need to demonize Islam would be difficult if not impossible.

There is no doubt that a small portion of radical, angry Islamists do want to kill us but the question remains, what exactly motivates this hatred?

If Islam is further discredited by making the building of the mosque the issue, then the false justification for our wars in the Middle East will continue to be acceptable.

The justification to ban the mosque is no more rational than banning a soccer field in the same place because all the suicide bombers loved to play soccer.

Conservatives are once again, unfortunately, failing to defend private property rights, a policy we claim to cherish. In addition conservatives missed a chance to challenge the hypocrisy of the left which now claims they defend property rights of Muslims, yet rarely if ever, the property rights of American private businesses.

Defending the controversial use of property should be no more difficult than defending the 1st Amendment principle of defending controversial speech. But many conservatives and liberals do not want to diminish the hatred for Islam–the driving emotion that keeps us in the wars in the Middle East and Central Asia.

It is repeatedly said that 64% of the people, after listening to the political demagogues, don’t want the mosque to be built. What would we do if 75% of the people insist that no more Catholic churches be built in New York City? The point being is that majorities can become oppressors of minority rights as well as individual dictators. Statistics of support is irrelevant when it comes to the purpose of government in a free society—protecting liberty.

The outcry over the building of the mosque, near ground zero, implies that Islam alone was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. According to those who are condemning the building of the mosque, the nineteen suicide terrorists on 9/11 spoke for all Muslims. This is like blaming all Christians for the wars of aggression and occupation because some Christians supported the neo-conservatives’ aggressive wars.

The House Speaker is now treading on a slippery slope by demanding a Congressional investigation to find out just who is funding the mosque—a bold rejection of property rights, 1st Amendment rights, and the Rule of Law—in order to look tough against Islam.

This is all about hate and Islamaphobia.

We now have an epidemic of “sunshine patriots” on both the right and the left who are all for freedom, as long as there’s no controversy and nobody is offended.

Political demagoguery rules when truth and liberty are ignored.
http://www.ronpaul.com/2010-08-20/ron-p ... yc-mosque/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

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:clap:
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

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Go Get em' Ronnie P!
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

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:shock: Wow.



If he keeps talking like that I may switch my write-in vote from Bozo the Clown.
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

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Paul the Elder is nothing if not consistent. He speaks truth to power, like Goldwater did almost half a century ago.
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

Post by OL FU »

Good coherent argument. Something I have not seen from either side of the issue until now. The idea that is it simply freedom of religion or that it is simply in bad taste are not convincing arguments. Throw in property rights and the argument becomes a lot more difficult to dismiss. :nod:
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

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The most logical, consistent & informed member in congress....kudos RP.... :clap:
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

Post by Ursus A. Horribilis »

Appaholic wrote:The most logical, consistent & informed member in congress....kudos RP.... :clap:
I used to go to his congressional page and read his opinions on things going on and he always seemed to be exactly that to me as well. He was frequently against what the party leadership was going for if it ever took away rights from the populace.

I'm glad to see a couple of new guys taking notice of him and hope it's happening around the country. By new guys I mean guys like HD that were pretty firmly on one side or the other.

The guy believes in The Constitution and what the true role of government ought to be. :thumb:
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

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Appaholic wrote:The most logical, consistent & informed member in congress....kudos RP.... :clap:
I still say build it, and surround it with the best, most heathenous things America has to offer.
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

Post by Ivytalk »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Appaholic wrote:The most logical, consistent & informed member in congress....kudos RP.... :clap:
I still say build it, and surround it with the best, most heathenous things America has to offer.
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

Post by Skjellyfetti »

AZGrizFan wrote:
I still say build it, and surround it with the best, most heathenous things America has to offer.
It already is.
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

Post by AZGrizFan »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
I still say build it, and surround it with the best, most heathenous things America has to offer.
It already is.
Oh, but I mean RIGHT NEXT TO IT. ACROSS THE STREET FROM IT. IN THE MEDIAN. :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

Post by CitadelGrad »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:
It already is.
Oh, but I mean RIGHT NEXT TO IT. ACROSS THE STREET FROM IT. IN THE MEDIAN. :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:
You mean you want the financial district to look like Times Square did 25 years ago?
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

Post by ASUMountaineer »

If only the rest of the leaders in Washington could base an opinion on reason and law. Ron Paul continues to be the best thing the country has going in Washington.
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

Post by bobbythekidd »

ASUMountaineer wrote:If only the rest of the leaders in Washington could base an opinion on reason and law. Ron Paul continues to be the ONLY GOOD thing the country has going in Washington.
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

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AZGrizFan wrote:
Appaholic wrote:The most logical, consistent & informed member in congress....kudos RP.... :clap:
I still say build it, and surround it with the best, most heathenous things America has to offer.

And not just in NY - take it to their place.

Most of Iran is well under 30 and doesn't remember the Shah, or Khomeni, or the poor relations. We could take them without firing a shot with rock n roll, Levis, cheeseburgers, and poon. No reason at all for the coming war with Iran other than profits.
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

Post by ASUMountaineer »

bobbythekidd wrote:
ASUMountaineer wrote:If only the rest of the leaders in Washington could base an opinion on reason and law. Ron Paul continues to be the ONLY GOOD thing the country has going in Washington.
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Thank you for the correction...spot on. :thumb: BTK continues to be the man.
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

Post by BDKJMU »

Excuse me for intruding on this Ron Paul circle jerk here. I agree with a lot of what Ron Paul says economically, and he makes a good argument in regards to property rights here. If he had left it at that that would have been fine.

Paul refers to in the Middle East“ ill conceived”, “preventative” warS. “WarS of aggression” You can make that argument about Iraq, not that I agree or disagree with it. But by using wars plural he is also saying the same thing about Afghanistan. So its clear Paul doesn’t think we should have gone into Afghanistan. Ok, Ron, what was the alternative, leave the Taliban and Al Qaeda in power?

"If it became known that 9/11 resulted in part from a desire to retaliate against what many Muslims saw as American aggression and occupation, the need to demonize Islam would be difficult if not impossible." Pre 9/11 occupation & agression? Give me a break. :roll: There was no pre 9/11 American “occupation in the Middle east. Everywhere there was American military personnel they were INVITED, including Saudi Arabia. He’s giving moral equivalency to Islamic extremeism and PRE 9/11 foreign policy. NOTHING the US did before 9/11 warranted the attacks, and for Paul to tie the 2 together is nuts. :ohno:

“neo-conservatives who demand continual war in the Middle East and Central Asia” He alleges this neo con conspiracy to use the mosque as reason to drum up more support for more war in the Middle East. Like you have a bunch of neocons in DC getting together and conspiring “Lets get people to rally against this mosque- that way we can keep more troops in Afghanistan and Iraq longer and elsewhere in the Middle East. Same kind of nutty conspiracy theory the loony left has come up with. :roll:

After the 9/11 report came out Paul alleged conspiracies and govt coverups. And the 9/11 “Truthers” ate that stuff up. There's a reason Paul had major backing from them.

His soccer field analogy is ridiculous. I heard him on the Michael Smerconish show yesterday morning and he also mentioned the strip club. Well, if the 19 hijackers were strippers with fake titties, people would be against titty bars within several blocks of ground zero.
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

Post by ASUMountaineer »

BDKJMU wrote:Excuse me for intruding on this Ron Paul circle jerk here. I agree with a lot of what Ron Paul says economically, and he makes a good argument in regards to property rights here. If he had left it at that that would have been fine.

Paul refers to in the Middle East“ ill conceived”, “preventative” warS. “WarS of aggression” You can make that argument about Iraq, not that I agree or disagree with it. But by using wars plural he is also saying the same thing about Afghanistan. So its clear Paul doesn’t think we should have gone into Afghanistan. Ok, Ron, what was the alternative, leave the Taliban and Al Qaeda in power?

So, after nearly a decade of "war" in Afganistan the resurgence of the Taliban and Al Qaeda there (not to mention Al Qaeda now having a presence in Iraq, which didn't exist before 2003) is all part of the solution necessitating our invasion?

"If it became known that 9/11 resulted in part from a desire to retaliate against what many Muslims saw as American aggression and occupation, the need to demonize Islam would be difficult if not impossible." Pre 9/11 occupation & agression? Give me a break. :roll: There was no pre 9/11 American “occupation in the Middle east. Everywhere there was American military personnel they were INVITED, including Saudi Arabia. He’s giving moral equivalency to Islamic extremeism and PRE 9/11 foreign policy. NOTHING the US did before 9/11 warranted the attacks, and for Paul to tie the 2 together is nuts. :ohno:

So, what was the reason for the first attacks of the WTC? Why do you think the terrorists attacked the US...because they hate our freedom? So, the leaders of countries that are not democracies (you know, it's imperative we spread democracy) inviting the "Zionists" into their country means the US has every right to station troops there? If Obama invited Chinese troops to help stabilize the US government, you'd be ok with it?

“neo-conservatives who demand continual war in the Middle East and Central Asia” He alleges this neo con conspiracy to use the mosque as reason to drum up more support for more war in the Middle East. Like you have a bunch of neocons in DC getting together and conspiring “Lets get people to rally against this mosque- that way we can keep more troops in Afghanistan and Iraq longer and elsewhere in the Middle East. Same kind of nutty conspiracy theory the loony left has come up with. :roll:

What legal basis exists for people in NYC (not to mention those who do not live in NYC) to demand people's (or organizations') property rights be violated? Please, notate the appropriate law. I'm interested to see what VALID reasons exist for people who do not own property to tell others what to do with their own property that is not violating zoning or land use requirements. Oh, what about the mosque that is already blocks away from Ground Zero...throw those guys out too?

After the 9/11 report came out Paul alleged conspiracies and govt coverups. And the 9/11 “Truthers” ate that stuff up. There's a reason Paul had major backing from them.

Ahh, tin-foil hat linking. Got it...please let us know when Congress declared war. Especially in regards to Iraq. Again, tie that to 9/11 as the previous administration (and supporters) claimed.

His soccer field analogy is ridiculous. I heard him on the Michael Smerconish show yesterday morning and he also mentioned the strip club. Well, if the 19 hijackers were strippers with fake titties, people would be against titty bars within several blocks of ground zero.

Do you really believe that? Interesting. Supposing you're right, what is the legal basis for precluding certain people from exercising their own property rights, but only those particular people/ groups.
I'm not passing judgment, just curious to see what your basis is for your statements. Paul has laid out his arguments...let's see yours.
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

Post by BDKJMU »

BDKJMU wrote:Excuse me for intruding on this Ron Paul circle jerk here. I agree with a lot of what Ron Paul says economically, and he makes a good argument in regards to property rights here. If he had left it at that that would have been fine.
Paul refers to in the Middle East“ ill conceived”, “preventative” warS. “WarS of aggression” You can make that argument about Iraq, not that I agree or disagree with it. But by using wars plural he is also saying the same thing about Afghanistan. So its clear Paul doesn’t think we should have gone into Afghanistan. Ok, Ron, what was the alternative, leave the Taliban and Al Qaeda in power?
ASUMountaineer wrote:So, after nearly a decade of "war" in Afganistan the resurgence of the Taliban and Al Qaeda there (not to mention Al Qaeda now having a presence in Iraq, which didn't exist before 2003) is all part of the solution necessitating our invasion?
Not argueing Iraq. As far as Afghanistan you seem like we shouldn't have gone there either to go after the Taliban & Al Qaeda. I don't think post 9/11 we had much choice but to go into Afghanistan.
BDKJMU wrote:"If it became known that 9/11 resulted in part from a desire to retaliate against what many Muslims saw as American aggression and occupation, the need to demonize Islam would be difficult if not impossible." Pre 9/11 occupation & agression? Give me a break. :roll: There was no pre 9/11 American “occupation in the Middle east. Everywhere there was American military personnel they were INVITED, including Saudi Arabia. He’s giving moral equivalency to Islamic extremeism and PRE 9/11 foreign policy. NOTHING the US did before 9/11 warranted the attacks, and for Paul to tie the 2 together is nuts. :ohno:
ASUMountaineer wrote:So, what was the reason for the first attacks of the WTC? Why do you think the terrorists attacked the US...because they hate our freedom? So, the leaders of countries that are not democracies (you know, it's imperative we spread democracy) inviting the "Zionists" into their country means the US has every right to station troops there? If Obama invited Chinese troops to help stabilize the US government, you'd be ok with it?
The jihadists have given as one of their justifications the 1st Gulf war and our small military presence in Saudi in 93', but that is a red herring. The Saudi govt invited the US in late 90' as they were scared sh*tless Sadaam was about to overrun them like he did Kuwait (which he certainly would have) and he was still certainly capable of in 93'. Obama inviting Chinese troops :? That analogy makes no sense. What country with a military many times the size of the US could overrun us like Sadaam could have Saudi?
BDKJMU wrote:“neo-conservatives who demand continual war in the Middle East and Central Asia” He alleges this neo con conspiracy to use the mosque as reason to drum up more support for more war in the Middle East. Like you have a bunch of neocons in DC getting together and conspiring “Lets get people to rally against this mosque- that way we can keep more troops in Afghanistan and Iraq longer and elsewhere in the Middle East. Same kind of nutty conspiracy theory the loony left has come up with. :roll:
ASUMountaineer wrote:What legal basis exists for people in NYC (not to mention those who do not live in NYC) to demand people's (or organizations') property rights be violated? Please, notate the appropriate law. I'm interested to see what VALID reasons exist for people who do not own property to tell others what to do with their own property that is not violating zoning or land use requirements. Oh, what about the mosque that is already blocks away from Ground Zero...throw those guys out too?
The mosque already there is a lot further than the 13 story Cordoba House, and not nearly as big. Heck the Cordoba House building had a large chunk or airplane gear come crashing through the roof. Regardless, you and Paul are right there is no legal basis to stop them. And Paul could have left it at that instead of drumming up his neo con conspiracy and US foreign policy is to blame theories.
BDKJMU wrote:After the 9/11 report came out Paul alleged conspiracies and govt coverups. And the 9/11 “Truthers” ate that stuff up. There's a reason Paul had major backing from them.
ASUMountaineer wrote:Ahh, tin-foil hat linking.


When Paul keeps on alleging conspiracies, 1st a govt coverup after 9/11, and now this neo con mosque opposition to maintain war in the Middle East, then yeah, he deserves a tin foil hat.

I forgot to mention in my 1st post Paul's saying:
"The House Speaker is now treading on a slippery slope by demanding a Congressional investigation to find out just who is funding the mosque—a bold rejection of property rights, 1st Amendment rights, and the Rule of Law—in order to look tough against Islam."

Paul has it wrong. Pelosi was calling for an investigation of who was funding the mosque OPPOSITION. Regardless, there is nothing wrong with investigating who is funding the 100 million mosque, as Rauf has refused to say where the $ is coming from. If any of that $ can be tied to terrorist groups, state sponsors of terrorism, or any organization that also funds terrorist groups, that would be illegal.
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

Post by Ursus A. Horribilis »

BDKJMU wrote:
The mosque already there is a lot further than the 13 story Cordoba House, and not nearly as big. Heck the Cordoba House building had a large chunk or airplane gear come crashing through the roof. Regardless, you and Paul are right there is no legal basis to stop them. And Paul could have left it at that instead of drumming up his neo con conspiracy and US foreign policy is to blame theories.
Have you by chance read his congressional opinions on these things from back before we invaded Iraq and what he said he thought was about to happen? Why he thought it was so wrong based on the way we were handling things in the Middle East and so forth? If you were reading it at the time he would have sounded as you suggest in that line. Hell, I kinda thought the guy was an idiot for what he was saying at the time. Then as time wore on and all the shit that he had predicted was going to come to fruition did come to pass I started thinking about his take on things a lot more.

If you had seen a lot of this mess coming, and you had foretold the situation we are in now and you had seen the way this is all presented to us as a device to drive a further wedge between the Muslim world and America then might not you be tempted to consider that some form of conspiracy might be in play?

I do agree that he did not need to use the tactic but the guy is very honest and open about what he believes and just says it for all to judge.
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

Post by ASUMountaineer »

BDKJMU wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:Excuse me for intruding on this Ron Paul circle jerk here. I agree with a lot of what Ron Paul says economically, and he makes a good argument in regards to property rights here. If he had left it at that that would have been fine.
Paul refers to in the Middle East“ ill conceived”, “preventative” warS. “WarS of aggression” You can make that argument about Iraq, not that I agree or disagree with it. But by using wars plural he is also saying the same thing about Afghanistan. So its clear Paul doesn’t think we should have gone into Afghanistan. Ok, Ron, what was the alternative, leave the Taliban and Al Qaeda in power?
ASUMountaineer wrote:So, after nearly a decade of "war" in Afganistan the resurgence of the Taliban and Al Qaeda there (not to mention Al Qaeda now having a presence in Iraq, which didn't exist before 2003) is all part of the solution necessitating our invasion?
Not argueing Iraq. As far as Afghanistan you seem like we shouldn't have gone there either to go after the Taliban & Al Qaeda. I don't think post 9/11 we had much choice but to go into Afghanistan.

So, you're cherry-picking his statement that supports your argument. That's fine. I'm not sure that it was necessary to overtake a country and try to prop up our form of government there. How has that worked out in defeating: 1) Islamic terrorism, 2) Al Qaeda, or 3) the Taliban? If anything, it has ruined our reputation further and done nothing to rid Afghanistan of those people stated above.
BDKJMU wrote:"If it became known that 9/11 resulted in part from a desire to retaliate against what many Muslims saw as American aggression and occupation, the need to demonize Islam would be difficult if not impossible." Pre 9/11 occupation & agression? Give me a break. :roll: There was no pre 9/11 American “occupation in the Middle east. Everywhere there was American military personnel they were INVITED, including Saudi Arabia. He’s giving moral equivalency to Islamic extremeism and PRE 9/11 foreign policy. NOTHING the US did before 9/11 warranted the attacks, and for Paul to tie the 2 together is nuts. :ohno:
ASUMountaineer wrote:So, what was the reason for the first attacks of the WTC? Why do you think the terrorists attacked the US...because they hate our freedom? So, the leaders of countries that are not democracies (you know, it's imperative we spread democracy) inviting the "Zionists" into their country means the US has every right to station troops there? If Obama invited Chinese troops to help stabilize the US government, you'd be ok with it?
The jihadists have given as one of their justifications the 1st Gulf war and our small military presence in Saudi in 93', but that is a red herring. The Saudi govt invited the US in late 90' as they were scared sh*tless Sadaam was about to overrun them like he did Kuwait (which he certainly would have) and he was still certainly capable of in 93'. Obama inviting Chinese troops :? That analogy makes no sense. What country with a military many times the size of the US could overrun us like Sadaam could have Saudi?

Perhaps that was a reason...how does that action speak for every Arab in the Middle East. Are you proposing that because the Saudi royal family invited US troops into SA--to protect their own positions and power--that that action was/ is supported by all Middle Eastern Arabs? You still didn't answer the question: Why did the terrorists attack the US if not for our standing troops in their homeland?
BDKJMU wrote:“neo-conservatives who demand continual war in the Middle East and Central Asia” He alleges this neo con conspiracy to use the mosque as reason to drum up more support for more war in the Middle East. Like you have a bunch of neocons in DC getting together and conspiring “Lets get people to rally against this mosque- that way we can keep more troops in Afghanistan and Iraq longer and elsewhere in the Middle East. Same kind of nutty conspiracy theory the loony left has come up with. :roll:
ASUMountaineer wrote:What legal basis exists for people in NYC (not to mention those who do not live in NYC) to demand people's (or organizations') property rights be violated? Please, notate the appropriate law. I'm interested to see what VALID reasons exist for people who do not own property to tell others what to do with their own property that is not violating zoning or land use requirements. Oh, what about the mosque that is already blocks away from Ground Zero...throw those guys out too?
The mosque already there is a lot further than the 13 story Cordoba House, and not nearly as big. Heck the Cordoba House building had a large chunk or airplane gear come crashing through the roof. Regardless, you and Paul are right there is no legal basis to stop them. And Paul could have left it at that instead of drumming up his neo con conspiracy and US foreign policy is to blame theories.

You do know it's not actually a mosque, right? It's a community center with a prayer room. There's a lot of Muslims in NYC. I think Paul was using this situation to prove a point, just like supporters and detractors of the construction. It appears these statements by Paul are nothing new. I'm interested to see where the line should be drawn for anything Middle Eastern, Arab, or Muslim to be built near "Ground Zero." What is the radius around Ground Zero that is sacred and can have nothing relating to the Middle East, Arabs, or Islam?

Do you not find it odd (and sad) that Congress even feels the need to comment/ get involved on this? Is this Terri Schiavo? Or that gubernatorial candidates in Florida (and elsewhere) are campaigning on this? It has nothing to do with anyone except the few in NYC with direct ties to the place. I think that's his larger point, that "neocons" (his word) are using this to drum up support for themselves, and indirectly their policies that have proven to be failures. I agree with you that his argument didn't need this added to it. But, I'm not going to dismiss it right off because it may seem nutty. Actually think about what he's saying, and judge it for yourself. It's his opinion, he's entitled to it rightly or wrongly. As UAH pointed out, he's been right a lot more than he's been wrong...history will prove his correctness.

BDKJMU wrote:After the 9/11 report came out Paul alleged conspiracies and govt coverups. And the 9/11 “Truthers” ate that stuff up. There's a reason Paul had major backing from them.
ASUMountaineer wrote:Ahh, tin-foil hat linking.


When Paul keeps on alleging conspiracies, 1st a govt coverup after 9/11, and now this neo con mosque opposition to maintain war in the Middle East, then yeah, he deserves a tin foil hat.

Do you believe he is 100% incorrect, especially with those opposing the building and their motives? Do you truly believe everyone opposing this, especially those outside of NY, are not using this to prove we need to maintain the status quo in our foreign policy? They're only opposing this because of "bad taste" or "insensitivity" or "on behalf of those killed on 9/11?" Come on, they oppose it because it's an election year.

I forgot to mention in my 1st post Paul's saying:
"The House Speaker is now treading on a slippery slope by demanding a Congressional investigation to find out just who is funding the mosque—a bold rejection of property rights, 1st Amendment rights, and the Rule of Law—in order to look tough against Islam."

Paul has it wrong. Pelosi was calling for an investigation of who was funding the mosque OPPOSITION. Regardless, there is nothing wrong with investigating who is funding the 100 million mosque, as Rauf has refused to say where the $ is coming from. If any of that $ can be tied to terrorist groups, state sponsors of terrorism, or any organization that also funds terrorist groups, that would be illegal.


I'm sorry, does the government have a right to ask who is funding your purchases or construction? If so, you'd gladly give it over because you have nothing to hide? Do you truly not see a slippery slope in letting Congress investigate the purchasing and construction finances of property in a sovereign state? Really? Just because I have nothing to hide doesn't mean I should have to give over everything. Sure, if the money is coming from illegal sources--fine. But, do they have any evidence supporting that the money could be coming from illegal sources other than Rauf refuses to say where the money is going?
Last edited by ASUMountaineer on Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

Post by Skjellyfetti »

BDK, what do you think of Paul's argument concerning property rights?
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

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The justification to ban the mosque is no more rational than banning a soccer field in the same place because all the suicide bombers loved to play soccer.
I generally like Ron Paul but that is one of the most asinine statements I've ever seen. There is definitely an association...a relationship...between Islam and suicide bombing. At the risk of making the initiator of another thread smile, I have to say that Islam is used as justification of that action. There is no association (relationship) between soccer and suicide bomging. People don't use soccer to justify doing it.

It's just an absolutely ridiculous statement.
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Re: Props to Ron Paul

Post by BDKJMU »

ASUMountaineer wrote: I'm sorry, does the government have a right to ask who is funding your purchases or construction? If so, you'd gladly give it over because you have nothing to hide? Do you truly not see a slippery slope in letting Congress investigate the purchasing and construction finances of property in a sovereign state? Really? Just because I have nothing to hide doesn't mean I should have to give over everything. Sure, if the money is coming from illegal sources--fine. But, do they have any evidence supporting that the money could be coming from illegal sources other than Rauf refuses to say where the money is going?
Uh, yeah if I had a $100 million come out of nowhere, much of it from foreign sources, and I refused to say where it cam from, yeah, I'd expect to be investigated...
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