Should UM move up if they can?

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Ursus: "The WAC has it's share of shit teams and we ain't gonna be getting away from that"

AZ: "Yeah sure but PSU & Sac St. are gonna be there so we got to do it now or be left in the dust"

You've unwittingly hit the nail on the head here, Ursus. Even if they DO take teams like PSU and Sac State in addition to Montana, if we DON'T go it could very well be too late. We would be left in the dust and when the BSC crumbles (or as I said to Grizza) becomes the Big South of the West, we're doomed to dominating mediocrity.

Is that REALLY all you want for Griz Football?

Again slick, I don't get ya. Is what we've had for the last 20 yrs. of Griz football and the fun and glory and success that we've enjoyed all I want to Griz football? I'm very happy with what we've achieved, I would like for us to have won a couple more championships but what we've done in this small market is pretty much well beyond what I would have expected when I came here. Where do you think we're headed and what great achievements will be accommodating with a move? Are we gonna be in the WAC for 15 yrs. then get a shot at the PAC or something? Is that seriously what you fucking see happening?

I didn't unwittingly hit on anything. You can have whatever view you want but it is very obvious that you look down your nose at many things AZ, that's how you roll, fine with me. I simply took what you said and simplified it into one sentence pieces and what you said is pretty funny. You have a great sense of humor.

The calamities of the BSC and FCS vs. the milk & honey of the FBS where we will never have a shot at the BCS (which is the pipe dream that you move uppers cling to) is not to me the fairy tale that it is to you guys wanting to play the same style of mediocrity for many years to come just that it will cost more and give us less.

What move up have you seen that makes you think this is such a fantastic idea? Is Boise St. your only horse to hitch too?

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

ISU has been good, not lately though and UNC & Sac St. have not been good. I guess you are now going against your argument that every conference has 3 or 4 good teams and the rest are bad in EVERY conference then? I mean I've seen you make that argument dozens of times but now it suits ya so you're going the other way?

BTW, it looks like you are wanting to go to a conference that already has it's bad teams and is going to add at least TWO of the teams you have used as "bad' teams in this very argument?

I mean seriously, do you fucking hear yourself...

AZ: "we need to move up so we can get away from playing bad teams like PSU & Sac St."

Ursus: "The WAC has it's share of shit teams and we ain't gonna be getting away from that"

AZ: "Yeah sure but PSU & Sac St. are gonna be there so we got to do it now or be left in the dust"

Ursus: "WTF????"

The problem with the BSC is that it's going to DIE. Do you understand that?

The problem with this statement is that is the kind of statement that a moron would make to try and act as if his shit argument had some teeth to it. Do you understand that?

[Appaholic]

Fok the FBS & talk of moving up. We get the same shit at App. It's a fokking joke. You think we're going to get an invite to the SEC or the ACC? You know, because of the natural rivalries & that desirable Hickory-Boone-North Wilkesboro TV market? We'd be lucky to get an invite to the MAC but would more likely end up in the Sun Belt. Either way, a good season gets us an invite to Detroit in Jan for the Motor City Bowl instead of playoff football in Dec in Boone. All thinkgs considered, I'll take FCS playoff football with less money & more integrity.....

[EWURanger]

ISU has been good, not lately though and UNC & Sac St. have not been good. I guess you are now going against your argument that every conference has 3 or 4 good teams and the rest are bad in EVERY conference then? I mean I've seen you make that argument dozens of times but now it suits ya so you're going the other way?

BTW, it looks like you are wanting to go to a conference that already has it's bad teams and is going to add at least TWO of the teams you have used as "bad' teams in this very argument?

I mean seriously, do you **** hear yourself...

AZ: "we need to move up so we can get away from playing bad teams like PSU & Sac St."

Ursus: "The WAC has it's share of **** teams and we ain't gonna be getting away from that"

AZ: "Yeah sure but PSU & Sac St. are gonna be there so we got to do it now or be left in the dust"

Ursus: "WTF????"

The problem with the BSC is that it's going to DIE. Do you understand that?

Again - why exactly is the BSC going to "DIE"? Your entire argument is predicated on the notion that the WAC is going to pick up all these Western FCS teams, which is absurd. Do you really not understand that neither PSU, Sac, Davis, or any other West Coast team is even remotely ready for a move to the FBS?

[kemajic]

I say again - in the next 5 or so years, it is far more likely that Idahos, Utah State's, etc. drop down to the FCS level

Care to cite some precedent for this? It doesn't happen.

[Montanan]

personally, i'm with the substantial signing bonus and yearly monetary awards crowd!

[kemajic]

Ursus, question for you.

If the FCS playoffs are the real "milk and honey," then why are they the only games that Montana can't sell out? They are by far the poorest attended games of the year. It's not just Montana, its true across FCS. Possibly fans have more interest in regional rivals that they know something about? College football is a regional sport; the fans have regional interests and will travel to proximate games. And in the West there are more credible FBS opponents than FCS. How many people in MT even know what state Appy is in, let alone will try to get to a game there?

[Herky]

The problem with the BSC is that it's going to DIE. Do you understand that?

Again - why exactly is the BSC going to "DIE"? Your entire argument is predicated on the notion that the WAC is going to pick up all these Western FCS teams, which is absurd. Do you really not understand that neither PSU, Sac, Davis, or any other West Coast team is even remotely ready for a move to the FBS?

Okay, okay calm down. I know you're feeling a little left out because Eastern hasnt been mentioned and never will be with regard to the WAC, so here's a little something to make you feel better

[Silenoz]

Ursus, question for you.

If the FCS playoffs are the real "milk and honey," then why are they the only games that Montana can't sell out? They are by far the poorest attended games of the year. It's not just Montana, its true across FCS. Possibly fans have more interest in regional rivals that they know something about? College football is a regional sport; the fans have regional interests and will travel to proximate games. And in the West there are more credible FBS opponents than FCS. How many people in MT even know what state Appy is in, let alone will try to get to a game there?

I don't think most of our fans care about "rivalries" with Sac State, Weber, PSU, etc. But it is a lot easier to get them out for those games with the promises of tailgating/social drinking/skydivers/Monte hijinx/etc when they have the tickets months ahead of time and have everything planned out. When it's cold and we have a Thanksgiving weekend game that is announced 6 days ahead of time, you lose people like that.

Of course there's also hunting, December weather impacting cross state trips, students gone for Thanksgiving/Winter break, etc. But I truly believe most of the people who aren't there don't really care/know what's going on with FCS and the playoffs, or any rivalries beyond MSU and maybe EWU.


(I'm still a move-upper btw )

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Ursus, question for you.

If the FCS playoffs are the real "milk and honey," then why are they the only games that Montana can't sell out? They are by far the poorest attended games of the year. It's not just Montana, its true across FCS. Possibly fans have more interest in regional rivals that they know something about? College football is a regional sport; the fans have regional interests and will travel to proximate games. And in the West there are more credible FBS opponents than FCS. How many people in MT even know what state Appy is in, let alone will try to get to a game there?

kemajic, I was not saying that the playoff games were the milk & honey but I was saying that move uppers act like a shit hole move up is the milk & honey. Sorry for that confusion.

I've really never seen you make a comment that wasn't well thought out and logical as well as humorous but this one falls firmly in that group. Sil made the argument I would have made and that's based on pure logic and looking at it as the process that is in place for the playoffs.

I think you have a point about the regional matchups but not a real strong one. You compare our second round games with opponents we are familiar with or those we are not familiar with on a regular basis and the #'s are not any different. You can look at the stadium for that App Game tell that people were very jacked for that matchup. You can look at how that game outdrew any bowl game we could possibly be a part of and see that it did have some traction around the nation.

I can understand your point of view and why you want it because you played when the rivals you speak of regionally were on the schedule every year. There were very good years in that frame but by no means would that be considered the heyday of Griz football would it?

[EWURanger]

Again - why exactly is the BSC going to "DIE"? Your entire argument is predicated on the notion that the WAC is going to pick up all these Western FCS teams, which is absurd. Do you really not understand that neither PSU, Sac, Davis, or any other West Coast team is even remotely ready for a move to the FBS?

Okay, okay calm down. I know you're feeling a little left out because Eastern hasnt been mentioned and never will be with regard to the WAC, so here's a little something to make you feel better

Whatever, dude.

First off - My comments weren't intended to be a dig at Sac, PSU, or any other FCS team that has been mentioned as possible WAC candidates. I was merely pointing out that neither Sac, Poly, or Davis are poised to make a move at this juncture. But please, feel free to elaborate on how Sac State would make this grand "move-up" when California is basically bankrupt. And yes, I know Sac is already in the WAC for a few sports, whatever those may be. But we're talking about football, which is a completely separate issue.

Secondly - I could care less that Eastern hasn't been mentioned. Why would I? Our goal is to continue to build a Championship caliber FCS program. I don't think any EWU fans have any desire for anything other than that at the moment. Eastern is the fastest growing University in the state of Washington, so don't say never. If the program keeps moving in the right direction, then 10, 15 years down the line, who knows? The irony in your attempted smack is that from a competitive aspect (wins on the field and play-off appearances), there probably isn't a program in the BSC other than Montana that is more qualified to move up if we had the desire and the resources to do so.

Thirdly - Series History, EWU 14, Sac State 4. Don't try to talk smack about our program without anything to back it up.

We own you. Maybe Sac fans should be more concerned about trying to win at their current level of competition than they are with putting all of their hopes in a potential WAC invite.

[Herky]

Okay, okay calm down. I know you're feeling a little left out because Eastern hasnt been mentioned and never will be with regard to the WAC, so here's a little something to make you feel better

Whatever, dude.

First off - My comments weren't intended to be a dig at Sac, PSU, or any other FCS team that has been mentioned as possible WAC candidates. I was merely pointing out that neither Sac, Poly, or Davis are poised to make a move at this juncture. But please, feel free to elaborate on how Sac State would make this grand "move-up" when California is basically bankrupt. And yes, I know Sac is already in the WAC for a few sports, whatever those may be. But we're talking about football, which is a completely separate issue.

Secondly - I could care less that Eastern hasn't been mentioned. Why would I? Our goal is to continue to build a Championship caliber FCS program. I don't think any EWU fans have any desire for anything other than that at the moment. Eastern is the fastest growing University in the state of Washington, so don't say never. If the program keeps moving in the right direction, then 10, 15 years down the line, who knows?

Thirdly - Series History, EWU 14, Sac State 4. Don't try to talk smack about our program without anything to back it up. We own you.

1) Sac State raised student athletic fee's last year to cover the cost of a move up. Bankrupt? Hardly. You obviously don't know anything about the State appropriation of general fund dollars to public universies. Its nearly a continuous appropriation that almost never gets reduced. In fact, this year public universities will be getting more.
2) Stadium upgrade plans are already in the works and are pre-funded through donations and facilities fee's.
3) I don't care either way, FBS or FCS, I'll be happy.

Now stop being so pissy and learn how to take a joke

[EWURanger]

Whatever, dude.

First off - My comments weren't intended to be a dig at Sac, PSU, or any other FCS team that has been mentioned as possible WAC candidates. I was merely pointing out that neither Sac, Poly, or Davis are poised to make a move at this juncture. But please, feel free to elaborate on how Sac State would make this grand "move-up" when California is basically bankrupt. And yes, I know Sac is already in the WAC for a few sports, whatever those may be. But we're talking about football, which is a completely separate issue.

Secondly - I could care less that Eastern hasn't been mentioned. Why would I? Our goal is to continue to build a Championship caliber FCS program. I don't think any EWU fans have any desire for anything other than that at the moment. Eastern is the fastest growing University in the state of Washington, so don't say never. If the program keeps moving in the right direction, then 10, 15 years down the line, who knows?

Thirdly - Series History, EWU 14, Sac State 4. Don't try to talk smack about our program without anything to back it up. We own you.

1) Sac State raised student athletic fee's last year to cover the cost of a move up. Bankrupt? Hardly. You obviously don't know anything about the State appropriation of general fund dollars to public universies. Its nearly a continuous appropriation that almost never gets reduced. In fact, this year public universities will be getting more.
2) Stadium upgrade plans are already in the works and are pre-funded through donations and facilities fee's.
3) I don't care either way, FBS or FCS, I'll be happy.

Now stop being so pissy and learn how to take a joke

Not pissy. I just think the WAC (especially without BSU) is a vulgar FBS conference and take exception to the notion that I would somehow be upset that we haven't been mentioned as potential candidates for a "move-up", if that's what you consider it to be. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

In regards to the financial situation in California, I would say that looking at schools like Fresno State, and all the concessions and cut-backs that their program has had to make to make ends meet might be a pretty good indicator of potential problems for Sac State should they attempt a move to the WAC......is that not a good indicator? Are both schools not part of the California State University system? Furthermore, are you trying to tell me that the student athletic fees that were increased are going to cover the cost of additional football scholarships, additional woman's sports (should they need to be added), and further stadium upgrades? Really? And that Sac has already generated enough to money through private donations to fund stadium expansion? If so, then more power to ya. Or maybe people are banking on that massive TV revenue that a BSU-less WAC will be generating?

P.S. - All in good fun, I can certainly take a joke. But I also don't mind some good debate once in a while.

[Green Laser]

Okay, okay calm down. I know you're feeling a little left out because Eastern hasnt been mentioned and never will be with regard to the WAC, so here's a little something to make you feel better

Whatever, dude.

First off - My comments weren't intended to be a dig at Sac, PSU, or any other FCS team that has been mentioned as possible WAC candidates. I was merely pointing out that neither Sac, Poly, or Davis are poised to make a move at this juncture. But please, feel free to elaborate on how Sac State would make this grand "move-up" when California is basically bankrupt. And yes, I know Sac is already in the WAC for a few sports, whatever those may be. But we're talking about football, which is a completely separate issue.

Secondly - I could care less that Eastern hasn't been mentioned. Why would I? Our goal is to continue to build a Championship caliber FCS program. I don't think any EWU fans have any desire for anything other than that at the moment. Eastern is the fastest growing University in the state of Washington, so don't say never. If the program keeps moving in the right direction, then 10, 15 years down the line, who knows? The irony in your attempted smack is that from a competitive aspect (wins on the field and play-off appearances), there probably isn't a program in the BSC other than Montana that is more qualified to move up if we had the desire and the resources to do so.

Thirdly - Series History, EWU 14, Sac State 4. Don't try to talk smack about our program without anything to back it up.

We own you. Maybe Sac fans should be more concerned about trying to win at their current level of competition than they are with putting all of their hopes in a potential WAC invite.

Funny, dispite all of your "great success", playoff appearances etc. etc. etc. and our lack of it you average 5,366 per game while we average 9,935. It's called potential for growth. You may experience a slight improvement this year because of your freakish new carpet but people will soon tire of the novelty. I am not really in favor of the WAC unless the other California schools make the jump together but it would increase interest and attendance over what the Big Sky teams offer us.

[EWURanger]

Whatever, dude.

First off - My comments weren't intended to be a dig at Sac, PSU, or any other FCS team that has been mentioned as possible WAC candidates. I was merely pointing out that neither Sac, Poly, or Davis are poised to make a move at this juncture. But please, feel free to elaborate on how Sac State would make this grand "move-up" when California is basically bankrupt. And yes, I know Sac is already in the WAC for a few sports, whatever those may be. But we're talking about football, which is a completely separate issue.

Secondly - I could care less that Eastern hasn't been mentioned. Why would I? Our goal is to continue to build a Championship caliber FCS program. I don't think any EWU fans have any desire for anything other than that at the moment. Eastern is the fastest growing University in the state of Washington, so don't say never. If the program keeps moving in the right direction, then 10, 15 years down the line, who knows? The irony in your attempted smack is that from a competitive aspect (wins on the field and play-off appearances), there probably isn't a program in the BSC other than Montana that is more qualified to move up if we had the desire and the resources to do so.

Thirdly - Series History, EWU 14, Sac State 4. Don't try to talk smack about our program without anything to back it up.

We own you. Maybe Sac fans should be more concerned about trying to win at their current level of competition than they are with putting all of their hopes in a potential WAC invite.

Funny, dispite all of your "great success", playoff appearances etc. etc. etc. and our lack of it you average 5,366 per game while we average 9,935. It's called potential for growth. You may experience a slight improvement this year because of your freakish new carpet but people will soon tire of the novelty. I am not really in favor of the WAC unless the other California schools make the jump together but it would increase interest and attendance over what the Big Sky teams offer us.

1.) So you have 10,000 fans a game come to watch a losing team. Congrats. Funny how our crappy attendance figures are brought up when there's no other come-backs. Furthermore, attendance figures at EWU are notoriously mis-represented due to the fact that all students attend the games for free.

2.) I happen to like our "freakish new red carpet", and so do a lot of other folks outside of the EWU fan base. Get over it, no one gives a **** if you like it or not. Besides - there are other improvements/expansion plans in place. Some will happen soon, others will take a few years. It's all part of building a program a step at a time.

3.) We must have some sort of "potential for growth". We recruit California kids, mostly from the Bay Area, right out from under your noses who would rather come play at Eastern than someplace like Sac....so we must be doing something right.

4.) 14-4

[Herky]

Funny, dispite all of your "great success", playoff appearances etc. etc. etc. and our lack of it you average 5,366 per game while we average 9,935. It's called potential for growth. You may experience a slight improvement this year because of your freakish new carpet but people will soon tire of the novelty. I am not really in favor of the WAC unless the other California schools make the jump together but it would increase interest and attendance over what the Big Sky teams offer us.

1.) So you have 10,000 fans a game come to watch a losing team. Congrats. Funny how our crappy attendance figures are brought up when there's no other come-backs. Furthermore, attendance figures at EWU are notoriously mis-represented due to the fact that all students attend the games for free.

2.) I happen to like our "freakish new red carpet", and so do a lot of other folks outside of the EWU fan base. Get over it, no one gives a **** if you like it or not. Besides - there are other improvements/expansion plans in place. Some will happen soon, others will take a few years. It's all part of building a program a step at a time.

3.) We must have some sort of "potential for growth". We recruit California kids, mostly from the Bay Area, right out from under your noses who would rather come play at Eastern than someplace like Sac....so we must be doing something right.

4.) 14-4

If your attendance numbers are grossly mis-represented as you said due to students attending for free, then Sac States must be as well. All Sac State students attend everything on campus for free. Weak argument there.

As far as attendance, no one in Sac gives a sh!t about Montucky, MSU, Eastern etc because they literally have no regional significance in California, no one knows who they are. If Sac State wants better attendance they're going to have to start playing other California universities as well as teams that people around here can relate to, teams they've heard of.

Trust me, I would like nothing more than to be able to go to more away games, but the schools are just too far apart.

Every kid except for one on Sac States roster is from CA. You guys got our left-overs.

[EWURanger]

1.) So you have 10,000 fans a game come to watch a losing team. Congrats. Funny how our crappy attendance figures are brought up when there's no other come-backs. Furthermore, attendance figures at EWU are notoriously mis-represented due to the fact that all students attend the games for free.

2.) I happen to like our "freakish new red carpet", and so do a lot of other folks outside of the EWU fan base. Get over it, no one gives a **** if you like it or not. Besides - there are other improvements/expansion plans in place. Some will happen soon, others will take a few years. It's all part of building a program a step at a time.

3.) We must have some sort of "potential for growth". We recruit California kids, mostly from the Bay Area, right out from under your noses who would rather come play at Eastern than someplace like Sac....so we must be doing something right.

4.) 14-4

If your attendance numbers are grossly mis-represented as you said due to students attending for free, then Sac States must be as well. All Sac State students attend everything on campus for free. Weak argument there.

As far as attendance, no one in Sac gives a sh!t about Montucky, MSU, Eastern etc because they literally have no regional significance in California, no one knows who they are. If Sac State wants better attendance they're going to have to start playing other California universities as well as teams that people around here can relate to, teams they've heard of.

Trust me, I would like nothing more than to be able to go to more away games, but the schools are just too far apart.

Every kid except for one on Sac States roster is from CA. You guys got our left-overs.

I understand the regional aspects in regards to Sac wanting to join the WAC. With other California schools in there, it would make a lot of sense from a rivalry/attendance aspect......so I can certainly understand that. I guess my point is that trying to hint that the Sac fan base's apparent lack of interest in who they play in the BSC somehow translates to a historically poor showing on the football field is a shoddy argument, at best.

The bottom line, in my opinion, is that there are a number of reasons for why Sac, PSU, or whoever may or may not join the WAC. If it makes sense for your school to do so, and you have the means and the desire, I say go for it. Maybe Sac could pull it off, but realistically I think it would be extremely challenging. I personally don't see it happening any time soon for any of the afore mentioned schools, for a multitude of reasons. Maybe it could make sense for PSU to try to make a move, but at the same time, no one in Oregon cares about the WAC and to a certain extent they would still be playing second fiddle to UO and OSU even with a WAC invite - not much difference there.

But getting back onto topic..........Everyone tries to use Boise State as a model for moving up, but some seem to forget that there were no other 1-A schools in the state of Idaho at the time they moved, so really no one to compete with for fans, etc........unlike California, Oregon, Washington, Arizona who have at least 2 Pac-10 schools each. Add to that the massive amount of corporate sponsorship, state dollars, and booster support BSU received during their move up, and there really is no comparison between them then, and any of the western FCS schools that are thinking about moving up now. Simply put, I don't think there will ever be another Boise State now, or any time in the future. I think any of the western FCS schools that made a jump now would more likely be following the Idaho scenario. They just posted their most successful season last year, after something like 15 years in FBS. A once-proud program that was a laughing stock for the latter part of the 90's and all of the 00's. I just don't see why anyone would want to go down that road.

[Green Laser]

Funny, dispite all of your "great success", playoff appearances etc. etc. etc. and our lack of it you average 5,366 per game while we average 9,935. It's called potential for growth. You may experience a slight improvement this year because of your freakish new carpet but people will soon tire of the novelty. I am not really in favor of the WAC unless the other California schools make the jump together but it would increase interest and attendance over what the Big Sky teams offer us.

1.) So you have 10,000 fans a game come to watch a losing team. Congrats. Funny how our crappy attendance figures are brought up when there's no other come-backs. Furthermore, attendance figures at EWU are notoriously mis-represented due to the fact that all students attend the games for free.

2.) I happen to like our "freakish new red carpet", and so do a lot of other folks outside of the EWU fan base. Get over it, no one gives a **** if you like it or not. Besides - there are other improvements/expansion plans in place. Some will happen soon, others will take a few years. It's all part of building a program a step at a time.

3.) We must have some sort of "potential for growth". We recruit California kids, mostly from the Bay Area, right out from under your noses who would rather come play at Eastern than someplace like Sac....so we must be doing something right.

4.) 14-4

Thanks for making my point!

1. If a team/ market can draw nearly 10,000 for a losing team it shows potential for better attendance once the team improves or play more attractive visiting teams. On the other had if we had a winning record and made the playoffs several times and still drew just over 5,000 thats not a good sign. If you where 5-6 what would you have drawn 2,000?

2. I understand that you are trying to improve the facilites, we all are. No doubt the red carpet is unusal enough to peak some interest. Do you really expect it to build continuing interest in your program once everyone comes out and takes a look?

3. No doubt the Sacramento area is very talent rich and EWU along with many other programs have benefited. Fresno State and Nevada both have over 20 players each from the immediate Sacramento Area on their rosters and Boise State has recuited very well from the area not only for players but coaches. In EWU's case Coach Wulff is from the Sacramento area and has a lot of contacts, his nephew, Matt Nichols, Twain Jones no doubt could have helped any program. With Wulff gone I doubt that you will get as many quality area players as in the past. I look for Portland State to be more successful from Coach Burton's contacts, another Sacramento guy. Coach Sperbeck has made it a priority to recruit locally and has done very well keeping some good players home. If and when we ever move up it would be easier from him to increase the quality of the roster with 20 more scholarships to work with then schools that need to pull players from elsewhere. Speaking of keeping local players home it seems that Montana more or less cleaned your clock in the Spokane area. Isn't that your main recruiting area? Good luck this season!

[griz8791]

Really? ISU? UNC? Sac State? SUU? Have those teams EVER been good? I take bad teams from a multiple year period BECAUSE THEY'RE BAD TEAMS YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT. Pull your head even remotely out of your ASS and you'd see that.

Oh, and the conference that's gonna fold is the BSC....just as soon as the WAC takes PSU & Sac State...either that or it becomes even MORE watered down by replacing those two doormats with even WORSE doormats in SUU and Central Washington. And when the WAC ALSO takes UC-Davis and/or Cal Poly there will literally be NOONE left for us to play out west EXCEPT the Fort Lewis's and Western States of the world.

Congratulations, you'll get your wish. 14-0 every year and a loss in the playoffs. But hey, at least it'll be a home game, right?

ISU has been good, not lately though and UNC & Sac St. have not been good. I guess you are now going against your argument that every conference has 3 or 4 good teams and the rest are bad in EVERY conference then? I mean I've seen you make that argument dozens of times but now it suits ya so you're going the other way?

BTW, it looks like you are wanting to go to a conference that already has it's bad teams and is going to add at least TWO of the teams you have used as "bad' teams in this very argument?

I mean seriously, do you **** hear yourself...

AZ: "we need to move up so we can get away from playing bad teams like PSU & Sac St."

Ursus: "The WAC has it's share of **** teams and we ain't gonna be getting away from that"

AZ: "Yeah sure but PSU & Sac St. are gonna be there so we got to do it now or be left in the dust"

Ursus: "WTF????"

I tend to think a move up is ultimately going to be our only viable option but you are totally tearing it up in this thread.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

ISU has been good, not lately though and UNC & Sac St. have not been good. I guess you are now going against your argument that every conference has 3 or 4 good teams and the rest are bad in EVERY conference then? I mean I've seen you make that argument dozens of times but now it suits ya so you're going the other way?

BTW, it looks like you are wanting to go to a conference that already has it's bad teams and is going to add at least TWO of the teams you have used as "bad' teams in this very argument?

I mean seriously, do you **** hear yourself...

AZ: "we need to move up so we can get away from playing bad teams like PSU & Sac St."

Ursus: "The WAC has it's share of **** teams and we ain't gonna be getting away from that"

AZ: "Yeah sure but PSU & Sac St. are gonna be there so we got to do it now or be left in the dust"

Ursus: "WTF????"

I tend to think a move up is ultimately going to be our only viable option but you are totally tearing it up in this thread.

I tend to agree with ya that it may become inevitable and if it were the right place then I'd be with it as well. Thanks for the curtain call 91.

[frinq]

EWU- Thanks for the sensible comments, at least as far as your last posting's concerned. If we could afford it - and we can't - WAC affiliation would make sense. It wouldn't get us to Pac-10 level, not by a long shot, but it would certainly lift us one rung up. We'd still be second class citizens to UO and OSU, true, but they (and other Pac-10 schools) are more likely to schedule us regularly, our rercruiting would be helped, and, hell, we might even get to a bowl game at some point. But we might also lose a ton of money. And in any case we can't afford it to start with. If Montana thinks they can afford it (I doubt they can) by all means let them run for it. Though the MWC makes more sense for them. But the MWC isn't likely to make them an offer.

[ronbo]

Sacramento is in a different place than most here realize. In a town like Sacramento they really need to be FBS. They could rival Fresno State as they are in a similar situation. Recruiting hotbed, large town that hungers for bigtime sports, large student population. They languish in FCS because nobody cares. In FBS they could be the next Fresno State.

[SuperHornet]

You have a really loose definition of the "Sac area," GL.

Per Wulff's bio, he was born and went to HS in Farm Extension-Town. His parents are currently in the Lodi area. Either way, that's not even in Sac County.

I'll grant you Burton being from Sac. Remember, though, he didn't go to Sac State. Burton went to UOP and was an incredible safety in his one season there before UOP gave up the ghost.

[Green Laser]

You have a really loose definition of the "Sac area," GL.

Per Wulff's bio, he was born and went to HS in Farm Extension-Town. His parents are currently in the Lodi area. Either way, that's not even in Sac County.

I'll grant you Burton being from Sac. Remember, though, he didn't go to Sac State. Burton went to UOP and was an incredible safety in his one season there before UOP gave up the ghost.

Super,

Both Lodi (30 miles) and davis (14 miles) are in my opinion in the immediate Sacramento area. Burton went to Jesuit H.S. in Carmichael (8 miles east of the Capitol Bldg). The Sacramento Area dosen't stop at the county line. The Sacramento SMSA is #25 in the U.S. and includes Sacramento and portions of the adjoining counties. The Sacramento Media Market is #20 in the U.S. and extends further. As a longtime high school coach I consider a college athlete local if he comes from the CIF Sac Joaquin Section which extends from Merced on the south, Yuba city on the north, Vallejo on the west and Placerville or Grass Valley on the east.

[SDHornet]

Sacramento is in a different place than most here realize. In a town like Sacramento they really need to be FBS. They could rival Fresno State as they are in a similar situation. Recruiting hotbed, large town that hungers for bigtime sports, large student population. They languish in FCS because nobody cares. In FBS they could be the next Fresno State.

This. Finally someone gets it. I just wish more on Sac Buzz would recognize this...but more importantly I hope our AD Wanless and Pres Gonzo recognize this...

*I'd prefer to be the next Boise but Fresno has been respectable the past decade or so.