42,400

[kalm]

According to the American Prospect, that's the estimated number of US factories that have closed since 2000. We've lost 5.5 million manufacturing jobs with 2.1 million of those occurring in the last two years.

Thank you free trade.

More American Factories Closing
by Dustin Ensinger on August 21, 2010 - 9:01am
Many of those factories, with the help of America’s lackadaisical free trade policy, have relocated to China, Mexico or India, where labor is cheap and environmental regulations are almost non-existent.

America has been losing manufacturing capacity, jobs and precious technology for decades as the nation transitions to a more service-centric economy, but the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression has only hastened the transition, causing factories across the nation to permanently close their doors.

Many of those factories, with the help of America’s lackadaisical free trade policy, have relocated to China, Mexico or India, where labor is cheap and environmental regulations are almost non-existent.

Others are simply shutting down factories and consolidating production in a move to cut costs and remain competitive with multinational companies with large, cheap Third World workforces.

In Indiana, which lost 200 jobs when an Eli Lilly and Co. factory closed earlier this year and another 1,100 jobs when a Whirlpool factory announced it was moving production to Mexico, a factory closing will cost roughly another 100 manufacturing jobs. Perfect Fit Industries, a textile factory in Loogootee, Indiana, recently announced that it would be closing its doors for good. The company had been operating since the 1930s, and served as a major source of employment for the small community of 2,700.

Quad/Graphics Inc., a printing business based in Wisconsin, announced that it would be closing at least five plants before the end of the year. Plants in Dyersburg, Tennessee; Reno, Nevada; Clarksville, Tennessee; Lebanon, Ohio; and Corinth, Mississippi are all set to close.

"Through this plan, more clients will benefit from our industry-leading technology and automation, while continuing to receive top-quality, on-time services," the company said in a news release.

Overall, 2,200 employees will be left without work.

In Kenosha, Wisconsin, a Chrysler engine factory will close its doors, costing 575 employees their jobs. And 151 workers will join the 9.5 percent of Americans out of work after a Dean Foods factory in Florence, South Carolina closes for the last time.

According to the American Prospect, since 2000, the U.S. has lost 5.5 million manufacturing jobs, with 2.1 million jobs lost in the past two years.

The American Prospect also estimates that, since 2001, 42,400 American factories have closed their doors, and roughly three-fourths of those employed over 500 people while they were in operation.

According to Moody’s, one million of those jobs will never come back. And the National Association of Manufacturers says that the best-case scenario is 540,000 of those jobs returning or being replaced in the manufacturing sector in the next five years.

"In these economic times it's not like these people can go out and (say) 'Oh, I'll get another job,'" Janelle Ferrier, wife of a soon-to-be jobless Quad/Graphics employee, told The Tennessean.

http://www.economyincrisis.org/content/ ... es-closing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[YoUDeeMan]

Gosh, it seems that there is an awful lot of demand for manufacturing jobs in the US.

Ooops! There's that money thing again.

[AZGrizFan]

According to the American Prospect, that's the estimated number of US factories that have closed since 2000. We've lost 5.5 million manufacturing jobs with 2.1 million of those occurring in the last two years.

Thank you free trade.

More American Factories Closing
by Dustin Ensinger on August 21, 2010 - 9:01am
Many of those factories, with the help of America’s lackadaisical free trade policy, have relocated to China, Mexico or India, where labor is cheap and environmental regulations are almost non-existent.

Quad/Graphics Inc., a printing business based in Wisconsin, announced that it would be closing at least five plants before the end of the year. Plants in Dyersburg, Tennessee; Reno, Nevada; Clarksville, Tennessee; Lebanon, Ohio; and Corinth, Mississippi are all set to close.

"Through this plan, more clients will benefit from our industry-leading technology and automation, while continuing to receive top-quality, on-time services," the company said in a news release.

Overall, 2,200 employees will be left without work.

1) You can't play a game by a different (more restrictive) set of rules and expect success. You blame free trade....the author hits the REAL problem right on the money.

2) How many of these plants/jobs are lost through progress (read: automation/computerization)?

[GannonFan]

Blaming free trade for the decline of manufacturing is just a defeatist approach. Logically, that approach would assume that all we had to do to increase manufacturing in the US is to dismantle free trade and become protectionistic, i.e. put up tarriffs, restrict incoming goods, etc. Of course, taking that tact would be most likely even more disastrous as there are things such as retaliatory trade barriers and all of a sudden we would find ourselves on an island with nowhere to sell our goods except internally (the world outside would still keep making things cheaper and faster than us so why would people pay a huge premium for our trade-protected goods?), and if you really think that is a growth-friendly idea then you really are lost.

I've worked as an engineer (chemical) in the US in manufacturing for the past 15 years of my professional life. There are plenty of places still making things in the US, but you have to be good at it. You need to be innovative, you need to make something that others can't easily make, and you need to keep getting better at it everyday. It's a tough world out there, and the days of just punching a clock and moping around a factory floor getting little work done for a good paycheck are over. The ones who can't innovate or who make a product that can easily be made elsewhere for pennies on the dollar or the ones who don't bring new products to market every year are the ones closing shop. It's economic Darwinism. Like I said, it's a tough world - get out there and start competing rather than moaning about free trade like it's some bogeyman.

[dbackjon]

So Z - you DO WANT us to turn into a fucking third world country, don't ya?

It is sickening that companies, in the name of a few more dollars, shut down here, move overseas where they can kill workers, pollute, etc, and then have CHEERLEADERS here.

[Cap'n Cat]

So Z - you DO WANT us to turn into a fucking third world country, don't ya?

It is sickening that companies, in the name of a few more dollars, shut down here, move overseas where they can kill workers, pollute, etc, and then have CHEERLEADERS here.

Way to go, Capitalist fvcks. You're getting what you always wanted at the expense of your American existence.

[GannonFan]

So Z - you DO WANT us to turn into a **** third world country, don't ya?

It is sickening that companies, in the name of a few more dollars, shut down here, move overseas where they can kill workers, pollute, etc, and then have CHEERLEADERS here.

Just thank John Nash. It's simple, classic game theory. If they don't, the competition will, and then they lose (i.e. go out of business). To think that wouldn't and hasn't happened already is just naivete on display.

And it does stink in the short term because, as you say, people are harmed (here and there), and the environment is harmed, but there is a long term benefit. Even now, there are plenty of businesses that are getting out of China because the Chinese, now with more money and now expecting a better standard of living, are demanding better environmental standards by companies operating in China. So businesses who can't meet those standards are looking for the next place to set up shop and continue doing what they were doing. But quite a few will stay and make the improvements necessary. And the same thing will play out in the next "cheap labor/environmentally lax" locale - easy money up front, bad working conditions, killing the environment, and then when people start getting more financially secure, they demand a better standard of living. It always happens the same way (heck, it happened here in the US at the turn of the century). It might be slow, and it may have hiccups along the way, but it is progress.

For the US, though, it's like I said - buck up, start competing, start innovating, and start making things that a child in the Third World can make for a fraction of the cost. Moaning about our lot in life doesn't do anything to improve it.

[AZGrizFan]

So Z - you DO WANT us to turn into a fucking third world country, don't ya?

It is sickening that companies, in the name of a few more dollars, shut down here, move overseas where they can kill workers, pollute, etc, and then have CHEERLEADERS here.

Way to go, Capitalist fvcks. You're getting what you always wanted at the expense of your American existence.

What's sad is that in the name of a few more dollars and the need to buy a bigger boat, RV or run up another credit card, American workers are forcing companies to relocate overseas where they can produce a product that American workers will still pay for.

An American textile worker wants $25 an hour (plus 401k, company-paid health plan, 12 days sick leave, 2-3 weeks vacation and automatic raises every year) to make blouses, but then wants to pay $6.99 for that blouse in Target or Walmart. That doesn't compute. It should tell you something about our entitlement mentality when its cheaper to produce the product overseas, pay the shipping and freight costs to get it to America and then trucked halfway across the fucking country than it is to have the product produced in BumFuck Illinois and trucked to the nearest Walmart.

[Grizalltheway]

Way to go, Capitalist fvcks. You're getting what you always wanted at the expense of your American existence.

What's sad is that in the name of a new more dollars and the need to buy a bigger boat, RV or run up another credit card, American workers are forcing companies to relocate overseas where they can produce a product that American workers will still pay for.

An American textile worker wants $25 an hour (plus 401k, company-paid health plan, 12 days sick leave, 2-3 weeks vacation and automatic raises every year) to make blouses, but then wants to pay $6.99 for that blouse in Target or Walmart. That doesn't compute. It should tell you something about our entitlement mentality when its cheaper to produce the product overseas, pay the shipping and freight costs to get it to America and then trucked halfway across the fucking country than it is to have the product produced in BumFuck Illinois and trucked to the nearest Walmart.

Says the guy who works in an industry where people get paid millions to move piles of money around.

[AZGrizFan]

What's sad is that in the name of a new more dollars and the need to buy a bigger boat, RV or run up another credit card, American workers are forcing companies to relocate overseas where they can produce a product that American workers will still pay for.

An American textile worker wants $25 an hour (plus 401k, company-paid health plan, 12 days sick leave, 2-3 weeks vacation and automatic raises every year) to make blouses, but then wants to pay $6.99 for that blouse in Target or Walmart. That doesn't compute. It should tell you something about our entitlement mentality when its cheaper to produce the product overseas, pay the shipping and freight costs to get it to America and then trucked halfway across the fucking country than it is to have the product produced in BumFuck Illinois and trucked to the nearest Walmart.

Says the guy who works in an industry where people get paid millions to move piles of money around.

Try running a country without access to capital. See where that gets you, you communist little fuck.

[Grizalltheway]

Says the guy who works in an industry where people get paid millions to move piles of money around.

Try running a country without access to capital. See where that gets you, you communist little fuck.

I never said banks weren't necessary. I just find it funny that you begrudge people wanting to make a decent living doing blue collar work, like their parents used to be able to do.

[blueballs]

For all of those bemoaning the fact that companies move or shut down because the cost of personnel and compliance becomes prohibitive I fully expect you to not consider price or costs the next time you purchase a product or service.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Try running a country without access to capital. See where that gets you, you communist little fuck.

I never said banks weren't necessary. I just find it funny that you begrudge people wanting to make a decent living doing blue collar work, like their parents used to be able to do.

I don't know if he was begrudging people for wanting to make a decent wage or anything. You are to young to remember this but there was a lot less of the middlin' people thinking they had the right to have every new thing that came out. The well off people had all the nice new trinkets, new boats, new vehicle, great sound systems, newest appliances, new TV and all that kind of shit. The workers that you are refering to would buy one of those things every few years when they could afford it. I didn't know but maybe one person that had all that shit and they were living in Diehl Heights.

Now all middle class regular joes have to have whatever they want in that regard without paying for it up front. It can all be put on credit and in order to look like you are doing well most people think they should do that instead of making sure CAN AFFORD to do it.

I think that is what AZ was mainly getting at and trust me Grizzall, he is dead on if that is what he was getting at.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I skimmed so if it was said sorry but I thought the free trade thing that Clinton was pushing is exactly what Rush Limbaugh was railing against back in the early 90's and he said that it was gonna cause manufacturing jobs to dwindle greatly in the future.

[kalm]

Blaming free trade for the decline of manufacturing is just a defeatist approach. Logically, that approach would assume that all we had to do to increase manufacturing in the US is to dismantle free trade and become protectionistic, i.e. put up tarriffs, restrict incoming goods, etc. Of course, taking that tact would be most likely even more disastrous as there are things such as retaliatory trade barriers and all of a sudden we would find ourselves on an island with nowhere to sell our goods except internally (the world outside would still keep making things cheaper and faster than us so why would people pay a huge premium for our trade-protected goods?), and if you really think that is a growth-friendly idea then you really are lost.

I've worked as an engineer (chemical) in the US in manufacturing for the past 15 years of my professional life. There are plenty of places still making things in the US, but you have to be good at it. You need to be innovative, you need to make something that others can't easily make, and you need to keep getting better at it everyday. It's a tough world out there, and the days of just punching a clock and moping around a factory floor getting little work done for a good paycheck are over. The ones who can't innovate or who make a product that can easily be made elsewhere for pennies on the dollar or the ones who don't bring new products to market every year are the ones closing shop. It's economic Darwinism. Like I said, it's a tough world - get out there and start competing rather than moaning about free trade like it's some bogeyman.

U.S. companies off-shoring manufacturing so that they can turn around and sell the products back to US consumers who now rely upon service sector wages to purchase the goods is not trade.

And Z, you make some good points about the sense of entitlement and spending habits of US consumers. But how will you feel when we start off-shoring financial services?

[AZGrizFan]

Try running a country without access to capital. See where that gets you, you communist little fuck.

I never said banks weren't necessary. I just find it funny that you begrudge people wanting to make a decent living doing blue collar work, like their parents used to be able to do.

I don't "bemoan" people wanting to make a decent living doing blue collar work. But when college educated folks make $28,000 a year as a banker and high school dropouts make $45 an hour turning a fucking wrench, there's something wrong. And you want to see banking start being "offshored"....allow unions into banks.

[AZGrizFan]

I never said banks weren't necessary. I just find it funny that you begrudge people wanting to make a decent living doing blue collar work, like their parents used to be able to do.

I don't know if he was begrudging people for wanting to make a decent wage or anything. You are to young to remember this but there was a lot less of the middlin' people thinking they had the right to have every new thing that came out. The well off people had all the nice new trinkets, new boats, new vehicle, great sound systems, newest appliances, new TV and all that kind of shit. The workers that you are refering to would buy one of those things every few years when they could afford it. I didn't know but maybe one person that had all that shit and they were living in Diehl Heights.

Now all middle class regular joes have to have whatever they want in that regard without paying for it up front. It can all be put on credit and in order to look like you are doing well most people think they should do that instead of making sure CAN AFFORD to do it.

I think that is what AZ was mainly getting at and trust me Grizzall, he is dead on if that is what he was getting at.

My "blue collar" family of 10 kids grew up in a 3-bedroom house that was about 1800 square feet. Nowadays, a family of 4 where the head of the household is a $40/hour "blue collar" plumber feels "cramped" in 2400 square feet, they've got a 28-foot Baja boat parked out front being pulled by a jacked-up Harley Davidson F-150 Ford, the 36' deisel Winnabago is out back and the garage is full of quads and the wallet is full of maxed out credit cards and they're livin' paycheck to paycheck.

Now, I realize that ain't everybody, but it's ENOUGH to know that the mentality exists. And it makes me sick.

[kalm]

I don't know if he was begrudging people for wanting to make a decent wage or anything. You are to young to remember this but there was a lot less of the middlin' people thinking they had the right to have every new thing that came out. The well off people had all the nice new trinkets, new boats, new vehicle, great sound systems, newest appliances, new TV and all that kind of ****. The workers that you are refering to would buy one of those things every few years when they could afford it. I didn't know but maybe one person that had all that **** and they were living in Diehl Heights.

Now all middle class regular joes have to have whatever they want in that regard without paying for it up front. It can all be put on credit and in order to look like you are doing well most people think they should do that instead of making sure CAN AFFORD to do it.

I think that is what AZ was mainly getting at and trust me Grizzall, he is dead on if that is what he was getting at.

My "blue collar" family of 10 kids grew up in a 3-bedroom house that was about 1800 square feet. Nowadays, a family of 4 where the head of the household is a $40/hour "blue collar" plumber feels "cramped" in 2400 square feet, they've got a 28-foot Baja boat parked out front being pulled by a jacked-up Harley Davidson F-150 Ford, the 36' deisel Winnabago is out back and the garage is full of quads and the wallet is full of maxed out credit cards and they're livin' paycheck to paycheck.

Now, I realize that ain't everybody, but it's ENOUGH to know that the mentality exists. And it makes me sick.

And the same can be said for corporations who feel they can off shore manufacturing and fuck up the environment without any consequences to the US economy. Cheap foreign labor and lax environmental regulations are apparently entitlements too.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

My "blue collar" family of 10 kids grew up in a 3-bedroom house that was about 1800 square feet. Nowadays, a family of 4 where the head of the household is a $40/hour "blue collar" plumber feels "cramped" in 2400 square feet, they've got a 28-foot Baja boat parked out front being pulled by a jacked-up Harley Davidson F-150 Ford, the 36' deisel Winnabago is out back and the garage is full of quads and the wallet is full of maxed out credit cards and they're livin' paycheck to paycheck.

Now, I realize that ain't everybody, but it's ENOUGH to know that the mentality exists. And it makes me sick.

And the same can be said for corporations who feel they can off shore manufacturing and fuck up the environment without any consequences to the US economy. Cheap foreign labor and lax environmental regulations are apparently entitlements too.

Are Corporations that are not considered US Corporations running by the standard you think US Corporations should? Or are you actually advocating that Rush Limbaugh was correct back when he was saying that all this shit was gonna happen?

I ain't being a dick about it I just don't know if I'm on the same page or not because the Democrats were very against Rush's ideas back then and if I'm reading correctly then it seems at least you are echoing the things he was saying?

[kalm]

And the same can be said for corporations who feel they can off shore manufacturing and **** up the environment without any consequences to the US economy. Cheap foreign labor and lax environmental regulations are apparently entitlements too.

Are Corporations that are not considered US Corporations running by the standard you think US Corporations should? Or are you actually advocating that Rush Limbaugh was correct back when he was saying that all this **** was gonna happen?

I ain't being a dick about it I just don't know if I'm on the same page or not because the Democrats were very against Rush's ideas back then and if I'm reading correctly then it seems at least you are echoing the things he was saying?

We have trade advantages that we clearly do not take advantage of and any corporation, US or not, that operates within our markets should operate at our pleasure, by our rules, and to the benefit of our country.

I'm really not all that concerned whether or not I agree with Rush on a given issue. If he was trumpeting Ross Perot's feelings on the issue of free trade at the time, then Rush as right.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Are Corporations that are not considered US Corporations running by the standard you think US Corporations should? Or are you actually advocating that Rush Limbaugh was correct back when he was saying that all this **** was gonna happen?

I ain't being a dick about it I just don't know if I'm on the same page or not because the Democrats were very against Rush's ideas back then and if I'm reading correctly then it seems at least you are echoing the things he was saying?

We have trade advantages that we clearly do not take advantage of and any corporation, US or not, that operates within our markets should operate at our pleasure, by our rules, and to the benefit of our country.

I'm really not all that concerned whether or not I agree with Rush on a given issue. If he was trumpeting Ross Perot's feelings on the issue of free trade at the time, then Rush as right.

I had AM radio in a truck back then I used to listen to him everyday when I was mowing lawns and shit in the summer and he was very against it and was saying pretty much what has happened. He said that Clinton & congress should get the hell away from NAFTA because if we aren't gonna try and bring the standards up around the world to compete fairly with us then US companies would be moving this shit off shore to be able to compete on the level that the Global companies enjoyed.

I think that Ross Perot's ideas were very similar to what he was saying at the time but that was in about 1992-3 and I remember the Dems being very opposed to what Rush was saying and espousing that it would not cut production in the US and would bouy Mexico and make them a very strong Neighbor and partner in the world and also cut down on illegal immigration.

I ain't trying to do a gotcha on ya or anything kalm I know you think for yourself and don't have to follow the party line. I just wasn't seeing clearly what you were going for.

You can't very well expect Corporations to take it upon themselves to not try and maximize their potential and work on the same playing field that competitors and demonize them when Clinton held the door for them?

That would be like blaming the rat for eating the cheese you threw in front of him.

[houndawg]

Says the guy who works in an industry where people get paid millions to move piles of money around.

Try running a country without access to capital. See where that gets you, you communist little ****.

Banking is the softest and most overpaid gig on the planet. Any no-talent can move money from this account to that account and keep some for themself. Bankers should make about 35-40K based on what it takes to do the job. The average factory worker has more useful and more productive skills than any banker.

[GannonFan]

Again, bemoaning free trade as the source of all of our ills is just short sighted. Sure, we could've said no to free trade and instead keep trade barriers up, protecting domestic industry from foreign competition. However, that would ignore the fact that the rest of the world decided otherwise. So while we'd be fine for a little while, eventually we'd be in an even much worse position - cheap goods would still be being made all over the world, except that we wouldn't be part of that. We'd have businesses in America that would be unable to sell their goods elsewhere due to our high costs and we would be unable to buy any of those cheap goods because of our high trade barriers. So how would our manufacturing base be any more well off? Heck, you could make the argument that by delaying the day of reckoning (when we realize we need to be more efficient in terms of everything related to producing goods if we're going to continue) that it would be even more difficult to ultimately compete against the rest of the world.

When it comes down to it, we need to compete, not coddle. Ignoring the fact that free trade dominates the rest of the world would be like a football team, at the time the forward pass came into vogue, deciding that we're going to just stick with the single wing. We'd be alright for awhile, but eventually we would be archaic and unable to win against other teams that innovated and improved. Innovate or perish, that's the reality of the world. We need to do things that other countries can't do. Crying about it doesn't make that reality go away.

[AZGrizFan]

Try running a country without access to capital. See where that gets you, you communist little ****.

Banking is the softest and most overpaid gig on the planet. Any no-talent can move money from this account to that account and keep some for themself. Bankers should make about 35-40K based on what it takes to do the job. The average factory worker has more useful and more productive skills than any banker.

You're a fucking complete moron. ANYONE can turn a bolt 5000 times a day. It takes more than a brainstem to be banker.

Oh, and here's a newsflash: About 98% of bankers DO make less than 35-40k.

[houndawg]

Banking is the softest and most overpaid gig on the planet. Any no-talent can move money from this account to that account and keep some for themself. Bankers should make about 35-40K based on what it takes to do the job. The average factory worker has more useful and more productive skills than any banker.

You're a **** complete moron. ANYONE can turn a bolt 5000 times a day. It takes more than a brainstem to be banker.

Oh, and here's a newsflash: About 98% of bankers DO make less than 35-40k.

More than a brainstem to be a banker? Then why do 98% make less than factory workers?


Well maybe they don't make less if you figure in the 3 martini lunch and getting to the golf course by 14:30.