Is the Catholic Church truly "Christian"?

[andy7171]

For the record, I want these

Not these

[89Hen]

When you can perform miracles, you really don't need a whole lot of cash.

Has the Catholic Church run out of magic miracle dust then? Pretty sure the Church has been claiming miracles ever since it was founded. Isn't performing miracles a requirement for canonization? I guess the Church doesn't really need a whole lot of cash?

Not too many saints hanging around these days.

[D1B]

Has the Catholic Church run out of magic miracle dust then? Pretty sure the Church has been claiming miracles ever since it was founded. Isn't performing miracles a requirement for canonization? I guess the Church doesn't really need a whole lot of cash?

Not too many saints hanging around these days.

Well you got that cunt/fraud Mother Teresa - product of the catholic church billion dollar reality making machine.

Nice cult Hen.

[Cap'n Cat]

Has the Catholic Church run out of magic miracle dust then? Pretty sure the Church has been claiming miracles ever since it was founded. Isn't performing miracles a requirement for canonization? I guess the Church doesn't really need a whole lot of cash?

Not too many saints hanging around these days.

Because modern man is realizing the vacuousness of religion, the empty promises of a better life "in the Lord". How may Catholic churches have closed in the last five years, Henski?

[D1B]

Has the Catholic Church run out of magic miracle dust then? Pretty sure the Church has been claiming miracles ever since it was founded. Isn't performing miracles a requirement for canonization? I guess the Church doesn't really need a whole lot of cash?

Not too many saints hanging around these days.

Hen how bout St. Mussolini? You catholics made a killing, literally and figureitively on fascism.



Here's St. Mussolini singing the 1929 Lateran Treaty, thus creating the papal state and paving the way for fascism and the atrocities to follow. Later, Mussolini's fascist governement would bail out the catholic controlled Bank of Rome to an estimated tune of 1,500,000,000 lire. From that point on, the fascist Mussolini was often publicly complimented by the Vatican.

The concordat between Hitler and the Catholic Church was signed much later, in 1933, but it's the same shit - the catholic church protecting it's wealth and power and countering communism/socialism rather than having the courage to fight what they already knew was trouble.





Tens of millions of people, many of em OUR GRANDFATHER AND GREAT GRANDFATHERS died as a result of political and financially self-serving decisions of the Vatican.

What a bunch of fucking cowards.

[GannonFan]

Not too many saints hanging around these days.

Hen how bout St. Mussolini? You catholics made a killing, literally and figureitively on fascism.



Here's St. Mussolini singing the 1929 Lateran Treaty, thus creating the papal state and paving the way for fascism and the atrocities to follow. Later, Mussolini's fascist governement would bail out the catholic controlled Bank of Rome to an estimated tune of 1,500,000,000 lire. From that point on, the fascist Mussolini was often publicly complimented by the Vatican.

The concordat between Hitler and the Catholic Church was signed much later, in 1933, but it's the same **** - the catholic church protecting it's wealth and power and countering communism/socialism rather than having the courage to fight what they already knew was trouble.





Tens of millions of people, many of em OUR GRANDFATHER AND GREAT GRANDFATHERS died as a result of political and financially self-serving decisions of the Vatican.

What a bunch of **** cowards.

The Catholic Church is now responsible for World War II? Your history is like the Dave Barry form of history - rather than remember specific dates, just assign October 8 as the day everything important happened. When did they sign the Magna Carta? October 8. Columbus sail to America? October 8. When is the Fourth of July? October 8. Only now you've appplied the same concept to a different topic - who's to blame for all the evils and wrongs in history - the Catholic Church. Who's to blame for WWII? The Catholic Church. Who's to blame for climate change? The Catholic Church. Who's to blame for the dinosaurs dying out? The Catholic Church. It sure does make things simpler, if not really accurate. But that's not really your intent, is it?

[JoltinJoe]

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[D1B]

Hen how bout St. Mussolini? You catholics made a killing, literally and figureitively on fascism.



Here's St. Mussolini singing the 1929 Lateran Treaty, thus creating the papal state and paving the way for fascism and the atrocities to follow. Later, Mussolini's fascist governement would bail out the catholic controlled Bank of Rome to an estimated tune of 1,500,000,000 lire. From that point on, the fascist Mussolini was often publicly complimented by the Vatican.

The concordat between Hitler and the Catholic Church was signed much later, in 1933, but it's the same **** - the catholic church protecting it's wealth and power and countering communism/socialism rather than having the courage to fight what they already knew was trouble.





Tens of millions of people, many of em OUR GRANDFATHER AND GREAT GRANDFATHERS died as a result of political and financially self-serving decisions of the Vatican.

What a bunch of **** cowards.

The Catholic Church is now responsible for World War II? Your history is like the Dave Barry form of history - rather than remember specific dates, just assign October 8 as the day everything important happened. When did they sign the Magna Carta? October 8. Columbus sail to America? October 8. When is the Fourth of July? October 8. Only now you've appplied the same concept to a different topic - who's to blame for all the evils and wrongs in history - the Catholic Church. Who's to blame for WWII? The Catholic Church. Who's to blame for climate change? The Catholic Church. Who's to blame for the dinosaurs dying out? The Catholic Church. It sure does make things simpler, if not really accurate. But that's not really your intent, is it?

Absolutely I blame them for WW2. Fucking cowards.

Half a billion catholics did nothing while fascism (mussolini) was born on the Vatican doorstep. Half a billion catholic did nothing while Hitler set the stage for world war and genocide. They did though legitimize both for the world with partner agreements.

Fuck you Gannon.

[D1B]

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concordat

[GannonFan]

The Catholic Church is now responsible for World War II? Your history is like the Dave Barry form of history - rather than remember specific dates, just assign October 8 as the day everything important happened. When did they sign the Magna Carta? October 8. Columbus sail to America? October 8. When is the Fourth of July? October 8. Only now you've appplied the same concept to a different topic - who's to blame for all the evils and wrongs in history - the Catholic Church. Who's to blame for WWII? The Catholic Church. Who's to blame for climate change? The Catholic Church. Who's to blame for the dinosaurs dying out? The Catholic Church. It sure does make things simpler, if not really accurate. But that's not really your intent, is it?

Absolutely I blame them for WW2. **** cowards.

Half a billion catholics did nothing while fascism (mussolini) was born on the Vatican doorstep. Half a billion catholic did nothing while Hitler set the stage for world war and genocide. They did though legitimize both for the world with partner agreements.

**** you Gannon.

It's about this time that that quote from Animal House starts creeping into the conversation - something about "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life". Who knew that it was really applicable to someone. Good luck with all of that.

[D1B]

Absolutely I blame them for WW2. **** cowards.

Half a billion catholics did nothing while fascism (mussolini) was born on the Vatican doorstep. Half a billion catholic did nothing while Hitler set the stage for world war and genocide. They did though legitimize both for the world with partner agreements.

**** you Gannon.

It's about this time that that quote from Animal House starts creeping into the conversation - something about "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life". Who knew that it was really applicable to someone. Good luck with all of that.

All the pope had to do was stand up to Hitler, but he caved. The catholic church gave it's blessing to the Nazi's for all the world to see. Hitler could have been stopped, instead....



Fuck you, you timid eunich.

[D1B]

From http://www.catholicarrogance.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

1933 July 20:
"Papen and Pacelli formally sign the Concordat in an elaborate ceremony at the Vatican. Reich Minister of the Interior Frick announces that now the entire German government is now under the control of Adolf Hitler and that the Hitler salute is henceforth to be generally used as the German greeting. A number of contemporary historians consider this to be the day Hitler's dictatorship of Germany actually began."

"In 1919, the Weimar Republic mandated that the state subsidy of churches should cease. But, in reality, this mandate was breached before the ink used to write it was dry. In the years leading up to Hitler's assumption of total state power, the most serious potential opposition to his mad solutions were those within Germany's Catholic and Lutheran churches who objected to the excesses of National Socialism. Historically, churches and religions have, more than once, played the role of society's only check against political oppression. Accordingly, governments have often harbored hostility towards them — particularly since they postulate a higher authority than the state.
But Hitler circumvented that problem in 1933. In return for maintaining state support for the churches, Hitler secured an agreement that the churches would not oppose the National Socialists' rise to power. Practically overnight, both churches developed active participation in advancing the goals of the Nazis. The Lutheran press began to talk of the Jews as the "natural enemies" of Christianity. The Catholic Church even agreed to an oath of fealty to be taken by all bishops, agreeing "Before God and on the Holy Gospels, I swear and promise — as becomes a bishop — loyalty to the German Reich and to the state . . . and to cause the clergy of my diocese to honor it."
[ from http://www.freedommag.org/english/spegerm/page18.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ]

Far from being threatened by the Nazis, the government subsidy which the Catholic Church had enjoyed under his predecessors was tripled under Roman Catholic Chancellor Adolf Hitler.

"Between 1933, when he took office, and 1938 it rose from 150,000,000 marks a year to 500,000,000. 'What was your subsidy to the Churches', he asked of France, Britain, and America? He had never closed a church, and he left the Roman Church the richest land-owner in south and west Germany. It drew 1,500,000,000 marks a year from its property alone. (German papers give its wealth as $20,000,000,000). All that he asked was that priests should behave themselves as respectably as other citizens. "Paederasty and the corruption of children," he said, "are punished by law like other crimes in this state." The roars of applause in this case expressed the sentiment of practically the whole of Germany." [How The Cross Courted The Swastika For Eight Years, by Joseph McCabe, chapter IV.]

[GannonFan]

It's about this time that that quote from Animal House starts creeping into the conversation - something about "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life". Who knew that it was really applicable to someone. Good luck with all of that.

All the pope had to do was stand up to Hitler, but he caved. The catholic church gave it's blessing to the Nazi's for all the world to see. Hitler could have been stopped, instead....



**** you, you timid eunich.

Like I said, if you actually believe the only thing standing between peace on Earth and WWII was the Catholic Church standing up to facism then it's not worth talking about - you've apparently, in your haste to blame the Catholic Church for every ill on the planet, missed out on the hundreds of other things that all, taken together, led to WWII. That tends to happen when you hyper-focus on just one thing. Pity.

[D1B]

All the pope had to do was stand up to Hitler, but he caved. The catholic church gave it's blessing to the Nazi's for all the world to see. Hitler could have been stopped, instead....



**** you, you timid eunich.

Like I said, if you actually believe the only thing standing between peace on Earth and WWII was the Catholic Church standing up to facism then it's not worth talking about - you've apparently, in your haste to blame the Catholic Church for every ill on the planet, missed out on the hundreds of other things that all, taken together, led to WWII. That tends to happen when you hyper-focus on just one thing. Pity.

Gannon, I know there was alot of other shit going on and other acts of cowardice (England, United States). But a half a billion catholics and a billion protestants (were fuckheads too) rolled over for this guy? Come on, the supposed ultimate moral and ethical authorities failed to realize what was happening?

At the time, they, collectively had the power to stop Hitler and Mussolini, but they didn't. Like now with priest abuse scandels, the catholics (mostly good, but misguided people) are victims of poor leadership. Jesus would have sacrificed his mythical life to stop him.

[D1B]

“Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you
possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” (Matthew 19:21)

“Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” (Matthew19:24)









You think this asshole is what Jesus had in mind?

[D1B]

Who would jesus approve of?

[89Hen]

Who would jesus approve of?

Both

[GannonFan]

Like I said, if you actually believe the only thing standing between peace on Earth and WWII was the Catholic Church standing up to facism then it's not worth talking about - you've apparently, in your haste to blame the Catholic Church for every ill on the planet, missed out on the hundreds of other things that all, taken together, led to WWII. That tends to happen when you hyper-focus on just one thing. Pity.

Gannon, I know there was alot of other **** going on and other acts of cowardice (England, United States). But a half a billion catholics and a billion protestants (were **** too) rolled over for this guy? Come on, the supposed ultimate moral and ethical authorities failed to realize what was happening?

At the time, they, collectively had the power to stop Hitler and Mussolini, but they didn't. Like now with priest abuse scandels, the catholics (mostly good, but misguided people) are victims of poor leadership. Jesus would have sacrificed his mythical life to stop him.

The problem you always seem to have, though, is that you view the Catholic Church as one monolithic organization that moves as one. But it has been, and always will be, an unwieldly confederation of many, many different schools of thought and ideas. Sure, they all fit under the umbrella of Roman Catholicism, but how it is practiced and followed varies all throughout the world. The power of the Pope to dictate world events had waned considerably over the 1600 years before Mussolini and Hitler rose to power and the Church was then, as it is now, fairly splintered in its views of where Nazism was heading (kinda similar to how the whole world was as well). You say the Pope and the Church were complicit in not only allowing Hitler and Mussolini to gain power, but actually aided them (a bit of conjecture as if they couldn't have obtained power without the Catholic Church, especially in Germany where Protestanism was the dominant religion). But if that's the case, how come Catholics in other countries (including France, the Netherlands, and Poland) were quite vocal in their opposition to Nazism before the war and were targetted and persecuted and killed in large numbers during the war?

Like I said, I think where you err in your targetting of the Catholic Church is in your oversimplification of events and history - sure it makes your point easier to make when you disregard the messy details, but without those details you miss the bigger picture, even as it is today, that there's not one overriding Catholic groupspeak - it's a cacaphony of a whole range of different voices and ideas. Like I said, it's a messy detail, but important nonetheless.

[D1B]

Who would jesus approve of?

Both

Hen, you're a big, fat fucking moron.

[D1B]

Gannon, I know there was alot of other **** going on and other acts of cowardice (England, United States). But a half a billion catholics and a billion protestants (were **** too) rolled over for this guy? Come on, the supposed ultimate moral and ethical authorities failed to realize what was happening?

At the time, they, collectively had the power to stop Hitler and Mussolini, but they didn't. Like now with priest abuse scandels, the catholics (mostly good, but misguided people) are victims of poor leadership. Jesus would have sacrificed his mythical life to stop him.

The problem you always seem to have, though, is that you view the Catholic Church as one monolithic organization that moves as one. But it has been, and always will be, an unwieldly confederation of many, many different schools of thought and ideas. Sure, they all fit under the umbrella of Roman Catholicism, but how it is practiced and followed varies all throughout the world. The power of the Pope to dictate world events had waned considerably over the 1600 years before Mussolini and Hitler rose to power and the Church was then, as it is now, fairly splintered in its views of where Nazism was heading (kinda similar to how the whole world was as well). You say the Pope and the Church were complicit in not only allowing Hitler and Mussolini to gain power, but actually aided them (a bit of conjecture as if they couldn't have obtained power without the Catholic Church, especially in Germany where Protestanism was the dominant religion). But if that's the case, how come Catholics in other countries (including France, the Netherlands, and Poland) were quite vocal in their opposition to Nazism before the war and were targetted and persecuted and killed in large numbers during the war?

Like I said, I think where you err in your targetting of the Catholic Church is in your oversimplification of events and history - sure it makes your point easier to make when you disregard the messy details, but without those details you miss the bigger picture, even as it is today, that there's not one overriding Catholic groupspeak - it's a cacaphony of a whole range of different voices and ideas. Like I said, it's a messy detail, but important nonetheless.

Concordat

[GannonFan]

The problem you always seem to have, though, is that you view the Catholic Church as one monolithic organization that moves as one. But it has been, and always will be, an unwieldly confederation of many, many different schools of thought and ideas. Sure, they all fit under the umbrella of Roman Catholicism, but how it is practiced and followed varies all throughout the world. The power of the Pope to dictate world events had waned considerably over the 1600 years before Mussolini and Hitler rose to power and the Church was then, as it is now, fairly splintered in its views of where Nazism was heading (kinda similar to how the whole world was as well). You say the Pope and the Church were complicit in not only allowing Hitler and Mussolini to gain power, but actually aided them (a bit of conjecture as if they couldn't have obtained power without the Catholic Church, especially in Germany where Protestanism was the dominant religion). But if that's the case, how come Catholics in other countries (including France, the Netherlands, and Poland) were quite vocal in their opposition to Nazism before the war and were targetted and persecuted and killed in large numbers during the war?

Like I said, I think where you err in your targetting of the Catholic Church is in your oversimplification of events and history - sure it makes your point easier to make when you disregard the messy details, but without those details you miss the bigger picture, even as it is today, that there's not one overriding Catholic groupspeak - it's a cacaphony of a whole range of different voices and ideas. Like I said, it's a messy detail, but important nonetheless.

Concordat

Certainly a pithy answer, but again, an answer with tunnel vision. First of all, how many Catholics would even know what a Concodat is (the answer is very few) and second of all, how, in spite of a Concordat, was there still significant resistance to Nazism by Catholic authorities all throughout Europe? Again, you like to look at what the Pope or the Vatican does, assume that all Catholics are lemmings and entranced by the hierarchy of the Church, and then make your conclusions from there. Again, the messy detail that you skip over is that is not the way that the world worked then nor is it the way that it works now.

[Cap'n Cat]

The Catholic Church fvcked up for millenia, however, it is a new day. They will clean up their shit over a long period of time and fade into the background like all good religions should do. They know their shortcomings and will get them straight. Two thousand years of history is a bitch to overcome.

[JoltinJoe]

The Catholic Church fvcked up for millenia, however, it is a new day. They will clean up their **** over a long period of time and fade into the background like all good religions should do. They know their shortcomings and will get them straight. Two thousand years of history is a bitch to overcome.

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[D1B]

The Catholic Church fvcked up for millenia, however, it is a new day. They will clean up their **** over a long period of time and fade into the background like all good religions should do. They know their shortcomings and will get them straight. Two thousand years of history is a bitch to overcome.

http://www.members.tripod.com/SoundByte ... cvopen.wav

Is this what Jesus had in mind? Santa Claus and The Wizard of OZ making out in public...

[Cap'n Cat]

"Tongue back in the mouth, pal."