Props to Ron Paul

[BlueHen86]

Wow, you're a pro. You should run for public office.

So you don't agree that the 19 hijackers were irrational people?

I don't know if the hijackers were irrational or not. I don't think the masterminds behind the attack (Bin Laden et al.) are irrational.

Just because someone hates the U.S. that doesn't mean that they are irrational.

[uofmman1122]

So you don't agree that the 19 hijackers were irrational people?

Of course they were irrational by our standards, but resigning to claim that as their only reason for attack is ridiculous.

If you haven't already, read Messages to the World by Osama Bin Laden. It spells out, in his own words, pretty much every reason why he and the rest of radical Islam hate the west. Sure, it takes a highly irrational group of people to do what those men did on 9/11, but to sit there and simply say, "I can't rationalize the actions of irrational people," is a cop out. The rest of the world fucked over the Middle East a long time ago, and because life in countries like Afghanistan, Palestine, Iraq, etc. is so shitty, it's no wonder so many young Muslims are willing to kill themselves and thousands of Americans all on the promise of some fictional, religious paradise, especially when they feel, and rightly so I might add, that the US for the most part hates Islam and would like to see it gone. People who are well fed, clothed, sheltered, and happy don't blow themselves up as their only alternative.

The fact is that the US and other Western countries played a vital role in creating the hatred that we feel today. People just don't do things for no reason, even if they are irrational by our standards. To them, their reasoning might be perfectly rational.

[BlueHen86]

So you don't agree that the 19 hijackers were irrational people?

Of course they were irrational by our standards, but resigning to claim that as their only reason for attack is ridiculous.

If you haven't already, read Messages to the World by Osama Bin Laden. It spells out, in his own words, pretty much every reason why he and the rest of radical Islam hate the west. Sure, it takes a highly irrational group of people to do what those men did on 9/11, but to sit there and simply say, "I can't rationalize the actions of irrational people," is a cop out. The rest of the world fucked over the Middle East a long time ago, and because life in countries like Afghanistan, Palestine, Iraq, etc. is so shitty, it's no wonder so many young Muslims are willing to kill themselves and thousands of Americans all on the promise of some fictional, religious paradise, especially when they feel, and rightly so I might add, that the US for the most part hates Islam and would like to see it gone. People who are well fed, clothed, sheltered, and happy don't blow themselves up as their only alternative.

The fact is that the US and other Western countries played a vital role in creating the hatred that we feel today. People just don't do things for no reason, even if they are irrational by our standards. To them, their reasoning might be perfectly rational.

Good post.

[ASUMountaineer]

So you don't agree that the 19 hijackers were irrational people?

Of course they were irrational by our standards, but resigning to claim that as their only reason for attack is ridiculous.

If you haven't already, read Messages to the World by Osama Bin Laden. It spells out, in his own words, pretty much every reason why he and the rest of radical Islam hate the west. Sure, it takes a highly irrational group of people to do what those men did on 9/11, but to sit there and simply say, "I can't rationalize the actions of irrational people," is a cop out. The rest of the world **** over the Middle East a long time ago, and because life in countries like Afghanistan, Palestine, Iraq, etc. is so shitty, it's no wonder so many young Muslims are willing to kill themselves and thousands of Americans all on the promise of some fictional, religious paradise, especially when they feel, and rightly so I might add, that the US for the most part hates Islam and would like to see it gone. People who are well fed, clothed, sheltered, and happy don't blow themselves up as their only alternative.

The fact is that the US and other Western countries played a vital role in creating the hatred that we feel today. People just don't do things for no reason, even if they are irrational by our standards. To them, their reasoning might be perfectly rational.

+1.

[native]

...If you haven't already, read Messages to the World by Osama Bin Laden. It spells out, in his own words, pretty much every reason why he and the rest of radical Islam hate the west. Sure, it takes a highly irrational group of people to do what those men did on 9/11, but to sit there and simply say, "I can't rationalize the actions of irrational people," is a cop out. The rest of the world **** over the Middle East a long time ago, and because life in countries like Afghanistan, Palestine, Iraq, etc. is so shitty, it's no wonder so many young Muslims are willing to kill themselves and thousands of Americans all on the promise of some fictional, religious paradise, especially when they feel, and rightly so I might add, that the US for the most part hates Islam and would like to see it gone. People who are well fed, clothed, sheltered, and happy don't blow themselves up as their only alternative.

The fact is that the US and other Western countries played a vital role in creating the hatred that we feel today. People just don't do things for no reason, even if they are irrational by our standards. T o them, their reasoning might be perfectly rational.

Some good points! Your observations are accurate and salient, for the most part, BUT your conclusions are just wrong.

The 9/11 hijackers were well fed, well educated, well sheltered and privileged by any standard. Our enemies are not the impoverished villagers of Afghanistan, who do not produce suicide bombers. Our enemies are middle class muslims who DO provide suicide bombers. They just cannot stand it that our system provides better material success and that we have more libertine fun. They are too lazy to to compete, so they destroy. Ask any ex-pat who has worked in Saudi. Your analysis fails.

Muslim rage and jealousy are no justification for muslim actions, even is their reasoning is internally consistent within their closed loop system of belief.

If you are my neighbor and have a beautiful wife who dresses skimpily, then I rape your wife and then kill her because she was more beautiful than mine and I could not allow you to have something better than me, would you blame yourself? After all, I would be a mere victim by my way of reasoning. YOU played a "VITAL ROLE" in my "RATIONAL" jealousy by living next door and having a beautful wife!

WHY do you blame America and excuse muslim behavior? This is the same bullsh!t "blame the victim" appeasement mentality that leads to increased crime and mass murder. ...like blaming the Czechs or Poles for Nazi aggression, or the petit bourgeoise for communist atrocities.

[uofmman1122]

Some good points! Your observations are accurate and salient, for the most part, BUT your conclusions are just wrong.

The 9/11 hijackers were well fed, well educated, well sheltered and privileged by any standard. Our enemies are not the impoverished villagers of Afghanistan, who do not produce suicide bombers. Our enemies are middle class muslims who DO provide suicide bombers. They just cannot stand it that our system provides better material success and that we have more libertine fun. They are too lazy to to compete, so they destroy. Ask any ex-pat who has worked in Saudi. Your analysis fails.

Muslim rage and jealousy are no justification for muslim actions, even is their reasoning is internally consistent within their closed loop system of belief.

If you are my neighbor and have a beautiful wife who dresses skimpily, then I rape your wife and then kill her because she was more beautiful than mine and I could not allow you to have something better than me, would you blame yourself? After all, I would be a mere victim by my way of reasoning. YOU played a "VITAL ROLE" in my "RATIONAL" jealousy by living next door and having a beautful wife!

WHY do you blame America and excuse muslim behavior? This is the same bullsh!t "blame the victim" appeasement mentality that leads to increased crime and mass murder. ...like blaming the Czechs or Poles for Nazi aggression, or the petit bourgeoise for communist atrocities.

This isn't blaming the victims at all. I thought you'd at least go with something after giving me props at the beginning of your post, but jeeze, you're ignoring history.

I'm not for one second sympathizing with those that killed thousands of people on 9/11. If a hell exists, they surely deserve to burn for all eternity. I don't think it does exist, but that's a discussion for another day that would take this topic only further off course than it already is.

So you don't think the partitioning of the Ottoman Empire after WWI into essentially European-controlled states wasn't a factor? That the Balfour Declaration that set out to create a Jewish State in Palestine, while simultaneously assuring the Palestinians and other Muslims who opposed it that that was not their intention didn't play a part? Or that the West's (especially America's) mindset that Israel can do no wrong no matter what doesn't piss them off just a little bit?

I'll admit that Islam, itself, has been an outstanding vehicle for channeling this hate into actual violence. I don't feel the need to be politically correct and act as if Islam hasn't done that, but I feel that every religion is pure bullshit, so I guess it's easier for me. I guess I also feel that Christianity has that same possibility, but Christians today don't have any need to kill as a last resort.

There are so many factors that lead to the state of hate in the Middle East. We are not entirely to blame, and could argue that we aren't even mostly to blame, but we do share a significant part of the blame and should recognize it, especially because that's how most of the Muslim world sees it. We cannot, however, use that bullshit analogy about my wife being hotter than yours. They don't hate us because we're free, or because we live a better lifestyle, or because we have more money. Japan has everything we have, yet they constantly site our actions of dropping two Nuclear Bombs as part of our transgressions. If it was truly about Money and Lifestyle, they'd hate Japan just as much as us, but they don't. A lot of Muslim extremists go as far as to admire Japan for standing up to the US in WWII.

And about my post saying that "people who are well fed, clothed, sheltered and happy don't blow themselves up" still holds true. Sure, the extremists give their recruits a lavish lifestyle, but that's part of the charade. They pick up those who are the poorest, least educated, and most hungry and give them a life that's much better, along with the promise of a glorious afterlife, only in return for their service to Allah and to radical Islam. A kid who has nothing to lose would eat that up in a heartbeat, but he who has a stable living situation would not. They convince these kids that the world is so bad, and that the only way to fix it is to act in violence. After essentially brainwashing these people, they make them feel completely rationalized in thinking that there is no alternative possibility. In their minds, if they don't kill Westerners, the world will never get better.

[Skjellyfetti]

Nativist brings up Nazis in yet ANOTHER thread. Can you make a post without Nazi references?

[CID1990]

So you don't agree that the 19 hijackers were irrational people?

Of course they were irrational by our standards, but resigning to claim that as their only reason for attack is ridiculous.

If you haven't already, read Messages to the World by Osama Bin Laden. It spells out, in his own words, pretty much every reason why he and the rest of radical Islam hate the west. Sure, it takes a highly irrational group of people to do what those men did on 9/11, but to sit there and simply say, "I can't rationalize the actions of irrational people," is a cop out. The rest of the world **** over the Middle East a long time ago, and because life in countries like Afghanistan, Palestine, Iraq, etc. is so shitty, it's no wonder so many young Muslims are willing to kill themselves and thousands of Americans all on the promise of some fictional, religious paradise, especially when they feel, and rightly so I might add, that the US for the most part hates Islam and would like to see it gone. People who are well fed, clothed, sheltered, and happy don't blow themselves up as their only alternative.

The fact is that the US and other Western countries played a vital role in creating the hatred that we feel today. People just don't do things for no reason, even if they are irrational by our standards. To them, their reasoning might be perfectly rational.

Do you read Michael Scheuer?

[BDKJMU]

And about my post saying that "people who are well fed, clothed, sheltered and happy don't blow themselves up" still holds true. Sure, the extremists give their recruits a lavish lifestyle, but that's part of the charade. They pick up those who are the poorest, least educated, and most hungry and give them a life that's much better, along with the promise of a glorious afterlife, only in return for their service to Allah and to radical Islam. A kid who has nothing to lose would eat that up in a heartbeat, but he who has a stable living situation would not. They convince these kids that the world is so bad, and that the only way to fix it is to act in violence. After essentially brainwashing these people, they make them feel completely rationalized in thinking that there is no alternative possibility. In their minds, if they don't kill Westerners, the world will never get better.

BS. The 9/11 hijackers came from middle class to wealthy families BEFORE they were recruited. Same with that kid who tried to blow up Northwest 253 last Dec. Came from one of the wealthiest families in Sudan. So your statement "people who are well fed, clothed, sheltered and happy don't blow themselves up" doesn't hold true.

[uofmman1122]

Do you read Michael Scheuer?

I know I've heard the name before, but I had to Google him to find out. He was mentioned a couple times in a class I took on Terrorism, and I remember the quote Bin Laden made about him, saying that if America wanted to understand why he (bin Laden) and the rest of radical Islam hates America, they should read Scheuer. A lot of what he says makes sense to me. I'll have to actually read some of his books sometime.

Or do you feel that he's not worth it, and are only asking to point out how flawed my line of thinking is? (If this isn't the case, I apologize. I'm far too used to the status quo on this forum to not at least partially assume that's what you're doing)

[T-Dog]

Radical Muslims hate America because we're not a Muslim nation and we support Israel, who they believe are squatting on their rightful land.

As far as the terrorist being irrational, I would say yes. Anyone that advocates the murder of thousands of people is irrational in my opinion. They weren't deranged maniacs though like we assume irrational people are. They were educated, dedicated people and what they were educated in and dedicated to is mostly irrational.

As far as the original post, Ron Paul is right. Should we protest churches and cathedrals from walking distance of Centennial Park in Atlanta because Eric Rudolph bombed it in the name of Christianity and called himself a Roman Catholic?

Just because Rudolph committed the crimes he did, Christianity and Catholicism shouldn't be though of as what Rudolph though it was. Just as Islam shouldn't be thought of as the hijackers, Al Qaida and Bin Laden think it means.

[CID1990]

Do you read Michael Scheuer?

I know I've heard the name before, but I had to Google him to find out. He was mentioned a couple times in a class I took on Terrorism, and I remember the quote Bin Laden made about him, saying that if America wanted to understand why he (bin Laden) and the rest of radical Islam hates America, they should read Scheuer. A lot of what he says makes sense to me. I'll have to actually read some of his books sometime.

Or do you feel that he's not worth it, and are only asking to point out how flawed my line of thinking is? (If this isn't the case, I apologize. I'm far too used to the status quo on this forum to not at least partially assume that's what you're doing)

Not at all. Michael Scheuer was the head of the Bin Laden unit at the Agency some years back. Your post was pretty much a carbon copy of one of his essays. That's why I figured you may have read him. I do believe he has a pretty good grasp of the situation and the motivations of Al Qaeda.

Where a lot of people stop reading though, is where he also says that instead of going into places like Afghanistan to try to set up democratic governments there, we should have simply gone in there and murdered those sorry bastards to the last man and then left immediately.

He also places the blame for Bin Laden's continued existence evenly in the laps of Clinton and Bush, but he is a little harder on Clinton since it was on his watch that we knew exactly where Bin Laden was and refused to pop him.

[houndawg]

So you don't agree that the 19 hijackers were irrational people?

That's not the point. Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, Ted Kaczynski, etc. were irrational people. Is it "rationalizing their actions" to try to determine their motivations? No... It's a a necessary step to prevent future domestic terrorists. Same with foreign terrorists. Though, you seem to still be in the neocon "THEY HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOM" mindset.

BDKJMU: the last neocon remaining on CS.com.

Poor ol' BD. He's like them Japanese soldiers that were turning up on Pacific islands forty years after WW2, holding out for the glory of the Emperor.

Actually, Osama has been quite consistent about why he is attacking us. BD's error is assuming that because the Saudi government invited us in, that is what the Saudi people want. Not even close. The Saudi government is despised by the Saudi people and wouldn't be in power without us. That predates their nervousness about Saddam.

[houndawg]

I know I've heard the name before, but I had to Google him to find out. He was mentioned a couple times in a class I took on Terrorism, and I remember the quote Bin Laden made about him, saying that if America wanted to understand why he (bin Laden) and the rest of radical Islam hates America, they should read Scheuer. A lot of what he says makes sense to me. I'll have to actually read some of his books sometime.

Or do you feel that he's not worth it, and are only asking to point out how flawed my line of thinking is? (If this isn't the case, I apologize. I'm far too used to the status quo on this forum to not at least partially assume that's what you're doing)

Not at all. Michael Scheuer was the head of the Bin Laden unit at the Agency some years back. Your post was pretty much a carbon copy of one of his essays. That's why I figured you may have read him. I do believe he has a pretty good grasp of the situation and the motivations of Al Qaeda.

Where a lot of people stop reading though, is where he also says that instead of going into places like Afghanistan to try to set up democratic governments there, we should have simply gone in there and murdered those sorry bastards to the last man and then left immediately.

He also places the blame for Bin Laden's continued existence evenly in the laps of Clinton and Bush, but he is a little harder on Clinton since it was on his watch that we knew exactly where Bin Laden was and refused to pop him.

Was bin Laden the guy that Clinton tried to get with a couple of cruise missiles or was that somebody else?

[BDKJMU]

So you don't agree that the 19 hijackers were irrational people?

That's not the point. Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, Ted Kaczynski, etc. were irrational people. Is it "rationalizing their actions" to try to determine their motivations? No... It's a a necessary step to prevent future domestic terrorists. Same with foreign terrorists. Though, you seem to still be in the neocon "THEY HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOM" mindset.

BDKJMU: the last neocon remaining on CS.com.

Lets see, on this thread I've said:
-Going into Iraq might have been a mistake. Yep, think the majority of the public agrees there.
-Going into Afghanistan wasn't. Yep, the majority of the public agrees there.
-Came out against the building of the mosque near Ground Zero while acknowledging that they had a legal right to build it. Majority of the public agrees there.
-Called the hijackers irrational. Don't know of a poll on that one, but I'm sure the majority of the public would agree.
-Refuse to lay blame for the 9/11 attack on American foreign policy. Same.

So according to Jelly, if I'm a neocon, then the majority of the American public is too.

[BDKJMU]

Has Ron Paul has lost it? Another one of his conspiracy theories

Ron Paul questions whether there's gold at Fort Knox, NY Fed
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... d-reserves" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[houndawg]

Has Ron Paul has lost it? Another one of his conspiracy theories

Ron Paul questions whether there's gold at Fort Knox, NY Fed
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... d-reserves" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I really want to like the guy, but he has got to stop channeling Lyndon LaRouche.

[T-Dog]

Has Ron Paul has lost it? Another one of his conspiracy theories

Ron Paul questions whether there's gold at Fort Knox, NY Fed
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... d-reserves" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I actually think it's a good idea. Keeping the government honest.

[AZGrizFan]

So you don't agree that the 19 hijackers were irrational people?

Of course they were irrational by our standards, but resigning to claim that as their only reason for attack is ridiculous.

If you haven't already, read Messages to the World by Osama Bin Laden. It spells out, in his own words, pretty much every reason why he and the rest of radical Islam hate the west. Sure, it takes a highly irrational group of people to do what those men did on 9/11, but to sit there and simply say, "I can't rationalize the actions of irrational people," is a cop out. The rest of the world fucked over the Middle East a long time ago, and because life in countries like Afghanistan, Palestine, Iraq, etc. is so shitty, it's no wonder so many young Muslims are willing to kill themselves and thousands of Americans all on the promise of some fictional, religious paradise, especially when they feel, and rightly so I might add, that the US for the most part hates Islam and would like to see it gone. People who are well fed, clothed, sheltered, and happy don't blow themselves up as their only alternative.

The fact is that the US and other Western countries played a vital role in creating the hatred that we feel today. People just don't do things for no reason, even if they are irrational by our standards. To them, their reasoning might be perfectly rational.

What an absolute, complete and utter load of horse hockey.

The history of the world did NOT, contrary to popular belief, begin with the creation of the United States of America in 1776.

Muslims have hated Christians for a THOUSAND YEARS. Before "Western countries" even fucking EXISTED. So, to say we played a "vital" role is so much of a cop-out that I can't believe I'm even bothering to address it. Oh, sure, "Western countries" provide a convenient enemy for the current crop of extremists, in that we stand for everything Islam does NOT:

Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Equal rights for women and minorities
Equal protection under the law
Running water
Dependable power
Democratic process
etc., etc., etc.

You might try reading ANY non-biased history book that isn't written by one of the actual participants in this latest circle jerk. It might be fairly enlightening for you.

One final thought: If we (as Americans) hated Islam so much, as you claim, why don't you count the number of Mosques in America versus the # of Christian churches in oh, say....Iran. There's only ONE side that HATES the other and wants to see it "gone", and it ain't the Americans.

[AZGrizFan]

I know I've heard the name before, but I had to Google him to find out. He was mentioned a couple times in a class I took on Terrorism, and I remember the quote Bin Laden made about him, saying that if America wanted to understand why he (bin Laden) and the rest of radical Islam hates America, they should read Scheuer. A lot of what he says makes sense to me. I'll have to actually read some of his books sometime.

Or do you feel that he's not worth it, and are only asking to point out how flawed my line of thinking is? (If this isn't the case, I apologize. I'm far too used to the status quo on this forum to not at least partially assume that's what you're doing)

Not at all. Michael Scheuer was the head of the Bin Laden unit at the Agency some years back. Your post was pretty much a carbon copy of one of his essays. That's why I figured you may have read him. I do believe he has a pretty good grasp of the situation and the motivations of Al Qaeda.

Where a lot of people stop reading though, is where he also says that instead of going into places like Afghanistan to try to set up democratic governments there, we should have simply gone in there and murdered those sorry bastards to the last man and then left immediately.

He also places the blame for Bin Laden's continued existence evenly in the laps of Clinton and Bush, but he is a little harder on Clinton since it was on his watch that we knew exactly where Bin Laden was and refused to pop him.

What we got here is a goddamned expert. He took a class....

You should get a refund, 1122. You got fucked.

[houndawg]

Of course they were irrational by our standards, but resigning to claim that as their only reason for attack is ridiculous.

If you haven't already, read Messages to the World by Osama Bin Laden. It spells out, in his own words, pretty much every reason why he and the rest of radical Islam hate the west. Sure, it takes a highly irrational group of people to do what those men did on 9/11, but to sit there and simply say, "I can't rationalize the actions of irrational people," is a cop out. The rest of the world **** over the Middle East a long time ago, and because life in countries like Afghanistan, Palestine, Iraq, etc. is so shitty, it's no wonder so many young Muslims are willing to kill themselves and thousands of Americans all on the promise of some fictional, religious paradise, especially when they feel, and rightly so I might add, that the US for the most part hates Islam and would like to see it gone. People who are well fed, clothed, sheltered, and happy don't blow themselves up as their only alternative.

The fact is that the US and other Western countries played a vital role in creating the hatred that we feel today. People just don't do things for no reason, even if they are irrational by our standards. To them, their reasoning might be perfectly rational.

What an absolute, complete and utter load of horse hockey.

The history of the world did NOT, contrary to popular belief, begin with the creation of the United States of America in 1776.

Muslims have hated Christians for a THOUSAND YEARS. Before "Western countries" even **** EXISTED. So, to say we played a "vital" role is so much of a cop-out that I can't believe I'm even bothering to address it. Oh, sure, "Western countries" provide a convenient enemy for the current crop of extremists, in that we stand for everything Islam does NOT:

Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Equal rights for women and minorities
Equal protection under the law
Running water
Dependable power
Democratic process
etc., etc., etc.

You might try reading ANY non-biased history book that isn't written by one of the actual participants in this latest circle jerk. It might be fairly enlightening for you.

One final thought: If we (as Americans) hated Islam so much, as you claim, why don't you count the number of Mosques in America versus the # of Christian churches in oh, say....Iran. There's only ONE side that HATES the other and wants to see it "gone", and it ain't the Americans.

It ain't? Not a day goes by without legions of pinheads bleating about how we're a "christian country" and we should throw all them ragheads out.

[houndawg]

...If you haven't already, read Messages to the World by Osama Bin Laden. It spells out, in his own words, pretty much every reason why he and the rest of radical Islam hate the west. Sure, it takes a highly irrational group of people to do what those men did on 9/11, but to sit there and simply say, "I can't rationalize the actions of irrational people," is a cop out. The rest of the world **** over the Middle East a long time ago, and because life in countries like Afghanistan, Palestine, Iraq, etc. is so shitty, it's no wonder so many young Muslims are willing to kill themselves and thousands of Americans all on the promise of some fictional, religious paradise, especially when they feel, and rightly so I might add, that the US for the most part hates Islam and would like to see it gone. People who are well fed, clothed, sheltered, and happy don't blow themselves up as their only alternative.

The fact is that the US and other Western countries played a vital role in creating the hatred that we feel today. People just don't do things for no reason, even if they are irrational by our standards. T o them, their reasoning might be perfectly rational.

Some good points! Your observations are accurate and salient, for the most part, BUT your conclusions are just wrong.

The 9/11 hijackers were well fed, well educated, well sheltered and privileged by any standard. Our enemies are not the impoverished villagers of Afghanistan, who do not produce suicide bombers. Our enemies are middle class muslims who DO provide suicide bombers. They just cannot stand it that our system provides better material success and that we have more libertine fun. They are too lazy to to compete, so they destroy. Ask any ex-pat who has worked in Saudi. Your analysis fails.

Muslim rage and jealousy are no justification for muslim actions, even is their reasoning is internally consistent within their closed loop system of belief.

If you are my neighbor and have a beautiful wife who dresses skimpily, then I rape your wife and then kill her because she was more beautiful than mine and I could not allow you to have something better than me, would you blame yourself? After all, I would be a mere victim by my way of reasoning. YOU played a "VITAL ROLE" in my "RATIONAL" jealousy by living next door and having a beautful wife!

WHY do you blame America and excuse muslim behavior? This is the same bullsh!t "blame the victim" appeasement mentality that leads to increased crime and mass murder. ...like blaming the Czechs or Poles for Nazi aggression, or the petit bourgeoise for communist atrocities.

My dad was one of those ex-pats who worked in Saudi. Said it was the only time in his life that he had a thousand dollars in his pocket on Saturday night and was drinking Pepsi. Said, iho, they hate us because we're propping up an unpopular government.

[AZGrizFan]

What an absolute, complete and utter load of horse hockey.

The history of the world did NOT, contrary to popular belief, begin with the creation of the United States of America in 1776.

Muslims have hated Christians for a THOUSAND YEARS. Before "Western countries" even **** EXISTED. So, to say we played a "vital" role is so much of a cop-out that I can't believe I'm even bothering to address it. Oh, sure, "Western countries" provide a convenient enemy for the current crop of extremists, in that we stand for everything Islam does NOT:

Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Equal rights for women and minorities
Equal protection under the law
Running water
Dependable power
Democratic process
etc., etc., etc.

You might try reading ANY non-biased history book that isn't written by one of the actual participants in this latest circle jerk. It might be fairly enlightening for you.

One final thought: If we (as Americans) hated Islam so much, as you claim, why don't you count the number of Mosques in America versus the # of Christian churches in oh, say....Iran. There's only ONE side that HATES the other and wants to see it "gone", and it ain't the Americans.

It ain't? Not a day goes by without legions of pinheads bleating about how we're a "christian country" and we should throw all them ragheads out.

5 people standing on a street corner holding a big sign that says "The End is Near" do NOT constitute "America".

[native]

...Where a lot of people stop reading though, is where he also says that instead of going into places like Afghanistan to try to set up democratic governments there, we should have simply gone in there and murdered those sorry bastards to the last man and then left immediately....

Sad but true.

[native]

Has Ron Paul has lost it? Another one of his conspiracy theories

Ron Paul questions whether there's gold at Fort Knox, NY Fed
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... d-reserves" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I really want to like the guy, but he has got to stop channeling Lyndon LaRouche.