Props to Ron Paul

[uofmman1122]

What an absolute, complete and utter load of horse hockey.

The history of the world did NOT, contrary to popular belief, begin with the creation of the United States of America in 1776.

Muslims have hated Christians for a THOUSAND YEARS. Before "Western countries" even **** EXISTED. So, to say we played a "vital" role is so much of a cop-out that I can't believe I'm even bothering to address it. Oh, sure, "Western countries" provide a convenient enemy for the current crop of extremists, in that we stand for everything Islam does NOT:

Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Equal rights for women and minorities
Equal protection under the law
Running water
Dependable power
Democratic process
etc., etc., etc.

You might try reading ANY non-biased history book that isn't written by one of the actual participants in this latest circle jerk. It might be fairly enlightening for you.

Please enlighten me as to one of these "non-biased history books" that you're referencing. I'd like to know why I shouldn't take the words of the guy who actually hates us, as well as the leader of the US team in charge of capturing said guy at face value. It's incredibly easy to sit back and say "They hate us because we're free," without really putting much (or any at all) thought into it. Of course they hate that we allow free speech, freedom of religion and freedom of marriage, but that's not why they killed thousands of people on 9/11 and would like to kill more. That's not just my opinion, or what I was taught in class, or in a "biased account of history (LOL )."

One final thought: If we (as Americans) hated Islam so much, as you claim, why don't you count the number of Mosques in America versus the # of Christian churches in oh, say....Iran. There's only ONE side that HATES the other and wants to see it "gone", and it ain't the Americans.

Sure. They hate us more than we hate them. Does that mean we don't hate Islam? Fuck no. Someone wants to build a Muslim community center, and all the sudden 400 people in Bumblefuck, Noweheresville show up to protest for no other reason than because they don't like Muslims.

What we got here is a goddamned expert. He took a class....

You should get a refund, 1122. You got ****.

1. I never claimed to be an expert, 2. It was the only ethics class that looked even remotely interesting that I needed to graduate, and 3. at least I have a little substance behind my point of view besides, "look at me, I'm a rich, white banker from Arizona who hates brown people."

[ASUMountaineer]

What an absolute, complete and utter load of horse hockey.

The history of the world did NOT, contrary to popular belief, begin with the creation of the United States of America in 1776.

Muslims have hated Christians for a THOUSAND YEARS. Before "Western countries" even **** EXISTED. So, to say we played a "vital" role is so much of a cop-out that I can't believe I'm even bothering to address it. Oh, sure, "Western countries" provide a convenient enemy for the current crop of extremists, in that we stand for everything Islam does NOT:

Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Equal rights for women and minorities
Equal protection under the law
Running water
Dependable power
Democratic process
etc., etc., etc.

You might try reading ANY non-biased history book that isn't written by one of the actual participants in this latest circle jerk. It might be fairly enlightening for you.

Please enlighten me as to one of these "non-biased history books" that you're referencing. I'd like to know why I shouldn't take the words of the guy who actually hates us, as well as the leader of the US team in charge of capturing said guy at face value. It's incredibly easy to sit back and say "They hate us because we're free," without really putting much (or any at all) thought into it. Of course they hate that we allow free speech, freedom of religion and freedom of marriage, but that's not why they killed thousands of people on 9/11 and would like to kill more. That's not just my opinion, or what I was taught in class, or in a "biased account of history (LOL )."

One final thought: If we (as Americans) hated Islam so much, as you claim, why don't you count the number of Mosques in America versus the # of Christian churches in oh, say....Iran. There's only ONE side that HATES the other and wants to see it "gone", and it ain't the Americans.

Sure. They hate us more than we hate them. Does that mean we don't hate Islam? **** no. Someone wants to build a Muslim community center, and all the sudden 400 people in ****, Noweheresville show up to protest for no other reason than because they don't like Muslims.

What we got here is a goddamned expert. He took a class....

You should get a refund, 1122. You got ****.

1. I never claimed to be an expert, 2. It was the only ethics class that looked even remotely interesting that I needed to graduate, and 3. at least I have a little substance behind my point of view besides, "look at me, I'm a rich, white banker from Arizona who hates brown people."

Damn, cold blooded.

[Skjellyfetti]

"look at me, I'm a rich, white banker from Arizona who hates brown people."

[AZGrizFan]

"look at me, I'm a rich, white banker from Arizona who hates brown people."

I'm white. You at least got that part right.

a) I'm about to be unemployed. Perhaps in YOUR world that's "rich"...but not in mine.
b) I'm not a banker. I work in the credit union industry
c) I'm not from Arizona, I'm from Montana
d) I'm MARRIED to a "brown" person.

[AZGrizFan]

What an absolute, complete and utter load of horse hockey.

The history of the world did NOT, contrary to popular belief, begin with the creation of the United States of America in 1776.

Muslims have hated Christians for a THOUSAND YEARS. Before "Western countries" even **** EXISTED. So, to say we played a "vital" role is so much of a cop-out that I can't believe I'm even bothering to address it. Oh, sure, "Western countries" provide a convenient enemy for the current crop of extremists, in that we stand for everything Islam does NOT:

Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Equal rights for women and minorities
Equal protection under the law
Running water
Dependable power
Democratic process
etc., etc., etc.

You might try reading ANY non-biased history book that isn't written by one of the actual participants in this latest circle jerk. It might be fairly enlightening for you.

Please enlighten me as to one of these "non-biased history books" that you're referencing. I'd like to know why I shouldn't take the words of the guy who actually hates us, as well as the leader of the US team in charge of capturing said guy at face value. It's incredibly easy to sit back and say "They hate us because we're free," without really putting much (or any at all) thought into it. Of course they hate that we allow free speech, freedom of religion and freedom of marriage, but that's not why they killed thousands of people on 9/11 and would like to kill more. That's not just my opinion, or what I was taught in class, or in a "biased account of history (LOL )."

One final thought: If we (as Americans) hated Islam so much, as you claim, why don't you count the number of Mosques in America versus the # of Christian churches in oh, say....Iran. There's only ONE side that HATES the other and wants to see it "gone", and it ain't the Americans.

Sure. They hate us more than we hate them. Does that mean we don't hate Islam? Fuck no. Someone wants to build a Muslim community center, and all the sudden 400 people in Bumblefuck, Noweheresville show up to protest for no other reason than because they don't like Muslims.

What we got here is a goddamned expert. He took a class....

You should get a refund, 1122. You got ****.

1. I never claimed to be an expert, 2. It was the only ethics class that looked even remotely interesting that I needed to graduate, and 3. at least I have a little substance behind my point of view besides, "look at me, I'm a rich, white banker from Arizona who hates brown people."

They've hated christians since the dawn of time. Only the immediate reason (or justification) has changed. What you're getting by reading Bin Laden's book (other than putting money in his pocket) is HIS reason for hating America. The CURRENT reason for hating Christians (of which America is a shining example). Blaming America or America's actions is simply inaccurate. And having fucked up "substance" doesn't qualify as "substance". It means nothing.

[CID1990]

Not at all. Michael Scheuer was the head of the Bin Laden unit at the Agency some years back. Your post was pretty much a carbon copy of one of his essays. That's why I figured you may have read him. I do believe he has a pretty good grasp of the situation and the motivations of Al Qaeda.

Where a lot of people stop reading though, is where he also says that instead of going into places like Afghanistan to try to set up democratic governments there, we should have simply gone in there and murdered those sorry bastards to the last man and then left immediately.

He also places the blame for Bin Laden's continued existence evenly in the laps of Clinton and Bush, but he is a little harder on Clinton since it was on his watch that we knew exactly where Bin Laden was and refused to pop him.

Was bin Laden the guy that Clinton tried to get with a couple of cruise missiles or was that somebody else?

No, actually it wasn't. Those were punitive strikes against empty targets. Seems you have already forgotten how during that time Clinton was doing anything and everything to distract from his domestic woes.

Again, read Michael Scheuer. He was in charge of the Bin Laden TF at Langley. The Sudanese government offered Bin Laden up on a silver platter and our government refused. We had a number of opportunitites to get Bin Laden pre-emptively after we knew he was a threat and before 9-11.

I have major problems with us not getting Bin Laden in Afghanistan, but that was a botched battle after a President had already committed troops to whacking the Taliban and their Al Qaeda buddies face to face. Not quite shooting up an aspirin factory with a Tomahawk missile.

[native]

"look at me, I'm a rich, white banker from Arizona who hates brown people."

That pretty well sums up the "substance" offered by most of you lefties.

[Cap'n Cat]

That pretty well sums up the "substance" offered by most of you lefties.

Yeah, it just pales in comparison to Conk chest-beating. And baby killing.

[ASUMountaineer]

That pretty well sums up the "substance" offered by most of you lefties.

Yeah, it just pales in comparison to Conk chest-beating. And baby killing.

I thought the only "baby killers" were abortionists (which D told me includes God)