Obama Nails One More Cheney/Bush Mess - More To Do

[Col Hogan]

I always thought we were wrong to get into Iraq...but since we broke it...it's our responsibility to fix it...

Obama wants to simply walk away from that responsibility...

Question: Do you honestly think it's fixable with the current state of the US military and international diplomacy?

I agree that this exit was hasty, but do you really think the eventual outcome would be any different if we stayed longer? Since the minute we went in with an inadequate ground force, I've been saying that we can get out now or in 30 years, and the outcome will be the same: Sunnis and Shiites in civil war within a few months and no resolution until another strong-arm dictator, this time Shiite and backed by Iran, takes over.

I've struggled with my thoughts on that question...and since it's OUR military (you and me, 93)...my son and friends...your friends...who are getting killed or injured or at minimum taken away from family and put into harms way for extended periods of time, I sometimes find myself too close to make a clear decision...

But, in the end, I think you have hit the nail on the head...after talking many hours with my son who has done two combat tours (two full years) in Iraq, including one embedded with an Iraqi unit, Iraq will only be fixed by the ascendancy of another dictator like Saddam...since Iraq is basically a tribal culture, and some of the tribe will never get along...and the Shia will long remember the beat-down put on them by Saddam and the Sunni...

But, what ever trouble that spills over the Iraqi border into the rest of the world will remain our responsibility...like it or not...

[BDKJMU]

It really doesn't matter where you strike or occupy - plug the hole in Iraq, terrorism pops up in Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Somalia, or various other places. Leave Iraq, and it will fill in behind you - terrorism hates a vacuum.
The days of playing the role of world police effectively have ended - we don't have the resources to be everywhere at once, especially when our Saudi "allies" are turning a blind eye to what's happening in their own backyard. We need to move aggressively away from Middle East oil dependence by any means possible and let these unstable regimes resolve their own issues.

I agree as you say by any means possible. That means opening up ANWR and offshore. Right now, the US is only getting a little over 9% of its oil from the middle east (see Persian Gulf Countries), about 1.7 million barrels a day. ANWR estimates are a minimum 10 billion barrels, a million barrels a day for 30 years. Opening up ANWR alone could cut our dependence on mid east imports by more than half.

Note only 2 of the top 10 importers are Middle East:
1. Canada
2. Mexico
3. Venezuela
4. Saudi Arabia
5. Nigeria
6. Russia
7. Algeria
8. Angola
9. Iraq
10. Brazil

http://api.org/statistics/upload/10_MAY_Imports.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BDKJMU]

Tell that to the families of the "non-combat" troops who will continue to come home in body bags.

OK, so NOW it is ok to make glib answers about dead soldiers? Wasn't ok when Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld were murdering Americans?



UNISWF asked if there were no combat operations, why were we still sending soldiers there. Simply answered that doesn't mean a thing.

Will it still be dangerous? Yup. SHould we pull out completely? Hell yes. But then the Colonel Hogans of the world will pillor Obama for that, as well.

Obama was put into a no-win situation in Iraq because of voters like you, supporting Bush's lies. That is something that YOU have to live with, and acknowledge.

As 89' has already pointed out in those Youtube clips, if they were Bush's lies, then they were Clinton's lies, and Gore's lies, and Kerry's lies, and Reid's lies, and Pelosi's lies, and most every other Donk's lies also. Oh, and you can add to that our intel agencies, and the intel agencies of all of our allies.

[89Hen]

Note only 2 of the top 10 importers are Middle East:
1. Canada
2. Mexico
3. Venezuela
4. Saudi Arabia
5. Nigeria
6. Russia
7. Algeria
8. Angola
9. Iraq
10. Brazil

But at least a few of the others have some sort of other economy besides oil. Imagine SA without oil.

[Appaholic]

Note only 2 of the top 10 importers are Middle East:
1. Canada
2. Mexico
3. Venezuela
4. Saudi Arabia
5. Nigeria
6. Russia
7. Algeria
8. Angola
9. Iraq
10. Brazil

But at least a few of the others have some sort of other economy besides oil. Imagine SA without oil.

Easy. They call it "Afghanistan" I believe....

[YoUDeeMan]

But, what ever trouble that spills over the Iraqi border into the rest of the world will remain our responsibility...like it or not...

Responsibility? You must be kidding. The place was a muderous shit hole before we got there and it will be again. We just chaged the players. No biggie. Let them all kill each other.

If they get out of hand again, drop more bombs...a lot more bombs. Hell, send over Joltin' Joe.

[89Hen]

Obama was put into a no-win situation in Iraq because of voters like you

Yea AR Lincoln, Blanche [D]
Yea CA Feinstein, Dianne [D]
Yea CT Dodd, Christopher [D]
Yea CT Lieberman, Joseph [D]
Yea DE Biden, Joseph [D]
Yea DE Carper, Thomas [D]
Yea FL Nelson, Bill [D]
Yea GA Cleland, J. [D]
Yea GA Miller, Zell [D]
Yea IN Bayh, Evan [D]
Yea IA Harkin, Thomas [D]
Yea LA Breaux, John [D]
Yea LA Landrieu, Mary [D]
Yea MA Kerry, John [D]
Yea MO Carnahan, Jean [D]
Yea MT Baucus, Max [D]
Yea NE Nelson, Ben [D]
Yea NV Reid, Harry [D]
Yea NJ Torricelli, Robert [D]
Yea NY Clinton, Hillary [D]
Yea NY Schumer, Charles [D]
Yea NC Edwards, John [D]
Yea ND Dorgan, Byron [D]
Yea SC Hollings, Ernest [D]
Yea SD Daschle, Thomas [D]
Yea SD Johnson, Tim [D]
Yea WA Cantwell, Maria [D]
Yea WV Rockefeller, John [D]
Yea WI Kohl, Herbert [D]

[Appaholic]

It really doesn't matter where you strike or occupy - plug the hole in Iraq, terrorism pops up in Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Somalia, or various other places. Leave Iraq, and it will fill in behind you - terrorism hates a vacuum.
The days of playing the role of world police effectively have ended - we don't have the resources to be everywhere at once, especially when our Saudi "allies" are turning a blind eye to what's happening in their own backyard. We need to move aggressively away from Middle East oil dependence by any means possible and let these unstable regimes resolve their own issues.

I agree as you say by any means possible. That means opening up ANWR and offshore. Right now, the US is only getting a little over 9% of its oil from the middle east (see Persian Gulf Countries), about 1.7 million barrels a day. ANWR estimates are a minimum 10 billion barrels, a million barrels a day for 30 years. Opening up ANWR alone could cut our dependence on mid east imports by more than half.

Note only 2 of the top 10 importers are Middle East:
1. Canada
2. Mexico
3. Venezuela
4. Saudi Arabia
5. Nigeria
6. Russia
7. Algeria
8. Angola
9. Iraq
10. Brazil

http://api.org/statistics/upload/10_MAY_Imports.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Offshore =
ANWR = (shocker, I know.. )

[ASUG8]

It really doesn't matter where you strike or occupy - plug the hole in Iraq, terrorism pops up in Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Somalia, or various other places. Leave Iraq, and it will fill in behind you - terrorism hates a vacuum.
The days of playing the role of world police effectively have ended - we don't have the resources to be everywhere at once, especially when our Saudi "allies" are turning a blind eye to what's happening in their own backyard. We need to move aggressively away from Middle East oil dependence by any means possible and let these unstable regimes resolve their own issues.

I agree as you say by any means possible. That means opening up ANWR and offshore. Right now, the US is only getting a little over 9% of its oil from the middle east (see Persian Gulf Countries), about 1.7 million barrels a day. ANWR estimates are a minimum 10 billion barrels, a million barrels a day for 30 years. Opening up ANWR alone could cut our dependence on mid east imports by more than half.

Note only 2 of the top 10 importers are Middle East:
1. Canada
2. Mexico
3. Venezuela
4. Saudi Arabia
5. Nigeria
6. Russia
7. Algeria
8. Angola
9. Iraq
10. Brazil

http://api.org/statistics/upload/10_MAY_Imports.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Agreed on ANWR and offshore - that should help us build a bit of a buffer while we continue developing more advanced hybrid technologies for vehicles and exploit other alternative energy sources. I like a big horsepower V8 like the next guy, but we have to reduce consumption as well as Middle East reliance.

[AZGrizFan]

he could help a little old blind grandma in a wheelchair carrying a basket of puppies across the street and people like hogan and alpha jizz would slay him for it.

The little old, blind grandma will never learn to be independent if people like Obama keep offering her assistance when crossing the street. She will always approach the curb and expect someone will be there to guide her across traffic. What we need is more people to come along and push her out into traffic so she can learn to negotiate speeding vehicles on her wheelchair. That's the only way she will be a productive member of society. SINK OR SWIM, YOU BRITTLE OLD BITCH.

Mock-up or not, that's some funny shit right there.

[Col Hogan]

But, what ever trouble that spills over the Iraqi border into the rest of the world will remain our responsibility...like it or not...

Responsibility? You must be kidding. The place was a muderous **** hole before we got there and it will be again. We just chaged the players. No biggie. Let them all kill each other.

If they get out of hand again, drop more bombs...a lot more bombs. Hell, send over Joltin' Joe.

That it was...but with Sadaam in charge, other than when he attacked his neighbors, the killing was kept right within his own borders...

We did change the players...but instead of having one big guy in charge, we've left the country with a bunch of fiefdoms killing each other with little rhyme or reason...

Which is better??? Which is more dangerous???

[Col Hogan]

he could help a little old blind grandma in a wheelchair carrying a basket of puppies across the street and people like hogan and alpha jizz would slay him for it.

The little old, blind grandma will never learn to be independent if people like Obama keep offering her assistance when crossing the street. She will always approach the curb and expect someone will be there to guide her across traffic. What we need is more people to come along and push her out into traffic so she can learn to negotiate speeding vehicles on her wheelchair. That's the only way she will be a productive member of society. SINK OR SWIM, YOU BRITTLE OLD BITCH.

If you're gonna try and imitate me...you are least could do it correct...

Three periods...or three ??? at minimum...

Otherwise...

[houndawg]

Question: Do you honestly think it's fixable with the current state of the US military and international diplomacy?

I agree that this exit was hasty, but do you really think the eventual outcome would be any different if we stayed longer? Since the minute we went in with an inadequate ground force, I've been saying that we can get out now or in 30 years, and the outcome will be the same: Sunnis and Shiites in civil war within a few months and no resolution until another strong-arm dictator, this time Shiite and backed by Iran, takes over.

I've struggled with my thoughts on that question...and since it's OUR military (you and me, 93)...my son and friends...your friends...who are getting killed or injured or at minimum taken away from family and put into harms way for extended periods of time, I sometimes find myself too close to make a clear decision...

But, in the end, I think you have hit the nail on the head...after talking many hours with my son who has done two combat tours (two full years) in Iraq, including one embedded with an Iraqi unit, Iraq will only be fixed by the ascendancy of another dictator like Saddam...since Iraq is basically a tribal culture, and some of the tribe will never get along...and the Shia will long remember the beat-down put on them by Saddam and the Sunni...

But, what ever trouble that spills over the Iraqi border into the rest of the world will remain our responsibility...like it or not...

...and they will long remember who installed Saddam in power and who stood by and watched while that beat-down was was being administered...

[Cap'n Cat]

Obama is indulging in the biggest lie possible here. We still have men and women in Iraq who will have to take part in combat operations if only in self defense.

And people love this guy?!?

EPIC mother fucking FAIL

How about the series of lies that got us there in the first place?

Do you have to work hard to be this clueless, or does it just come natural to you?

Stick to stuff you know like powder-puff football and leave these areas to men, you're starting to embarass yourself.

[Cap'n Cat]

The bigger question to be asked is why were we there in the first place.

No...that's a question for historians...down the road...

I always thought we were wrong to get into Iraq...but since we broke it...it's our responsibility to fix it...

Obama wants to simply walk away from that responsibility...

Dumb old guy in the barber shop talkin' here.

[Cap'n Cat]

We need to move aggressively away from Middle East oil dependence by any means possible and let these unstable regimes resolve their own issues.

You haven't seen pissed off Middle Easterners yet. Wait until the day comes when the black gold isn't needed anymore.

And, I know the Hen family is doing everything green they can. Hen is now an enviro-Nazi!

[YoUDeeMan]

Anyone else getting the ad at the bottom of the page regarding the "Master of Arts in Diplomacy" from Norwich University, or is it just me?

[Cap'n Cat]

Obama was put into a no-win situation in Iraq because of voters like you

Yea AR Lincoln, Blanche [D]
Yea CA Feinstein, Dianne [D]
Yea CT Dodd, Christopher [D]
Yea CT Lieberman, Joseph [D]
Yea DE Biden, Joseph [D]
Yea DE Carper, Thomas [D]
Yea FL Nelson, Bill [D]
Yea GA Cleland, J. [D]
Yea GA Miller, Zell [D]
Yea IN Bayh, Evan [D]
Yea IA Harkin, Thomas [D]
Yea LA Breaux, John [D]
Yea LA Landrieu, Mary [D]
Yea MA Kerry, John [D]
Yea MO Carnahan, Jean [D]
Yea MT Baucus, Max [D]
Yea NE Nelson, Ben [D]
Yea NV Reid, Harry [D]
Yea NJ Torricelli, Robert [D]
Yea NY Clinton, Hillary [D]
Yea NY Schumer, Charles [D]
Yea NC Edwards, John [D]
Yea ND Dorgan, Byron [D]
Yea SC Hollings, Ernest [D]
Yea SD Daschle, Thomas [D]
Yea SD Johnson, Tim [D]
Yea WA Cantwell, Maria [D]
Yea WV Rockefeller, John [D]
Yea WI Kohl, Herbert [D]

Had they not voted for Bush's murdering spree, Hen, they woulda been branded as cowards and supporters of terrorists. They were bullied into it and you know it. Their vote was for the troops, not the war, you dork. You post more and more like Gil Dobie every day.

[GannonFan]

Had they not voted for Bush's murdering spree, Hen, they woulda been branded as cowards and supporters of terrorists. They were bullied into it and you know it. Their vote was for the troops, not the war, you dork. You post more and more like Gil Dobie every day.

I don't really have a dog in this fight one way or the other, but that's just a weak and sad excuse for voting for war (or for armed conflict short of a declared war). If we're going to have politicians in power making decisions of this magnitude based mainly on the political calculus at the time, then we really do have a lot of low quality and low character people in government (not terribly shocking). How can you vote for what was essentially a war by saying that you're not voting for the war but voting for the troops whom you are sending to that war you say you don't want to vote for?

Certainly one of the larger reasons why we ran into so much trouble during the Bush years was the complete absence of a credible minority in Congress. If the Democrats had worried about how the country was being run rather than who was running it and how to manuever their way back into power then there would've been a real legislative brake on many of the Republican excesses at the time. But I'm getting the sense that some were perfectly happy on letting the Republicans fail like they did because it served the purpose of getting back into power. Nevermind the carnage that resulted from those failures, apparently that was just the price to be paid.

[89Hen]

Had they not voted for Bush's murdering spree, Hen, they woulda been branded as cowards and supporters of terrorists. They were bullied into it and you know it. Their vote was for the troops, not the war, you dork. You post more and more like Gil Dobie every day.

1. There were Dems that did vote nay.

2. This was the vote to use force, not the one to use more money.

3. You lose.

[Cap'n Cat]

Had they not voted for Bush's murdering spree, Hen, they woulda been branded as cowards and supporters of terrorists. They were bullied into it and you know it. Their vote was for the troops, not the war, you dork. You post more and more like Gil Dobie every day.

1. There were Dems that did vote nay.

2. This was the vote to use force, not the one to use more money.

3. You lose.

You're more ful of shitt than the priest at St. Pedophilia's there in Bethesda. We know the parallels you were trying to draw, you szhlub.

[89Hen]

We know the parallels you were trying to draw, you szhlub.

Parallels? I wasn't beating around the Bush (pun intended), there was nothing parallel about it, it was spot on. Jon said it was because of voters like us... turns out it was voters like the ones I posted.

[Cap'n Cat]

We know the parallels you were trying to draw, you szhlub.

Parallels? I wasn't beating around the Bush (pun intended), there was nothing parallel about it, it was spot on. Jon said it was because of voters like us... turns out it was voters like the ones I posted.

Hen, we all know your Conk ways. Distort and deflect.

[89Hen]

Hen, we all know your Conk ways. Distort and deflect.

Nope. No distortion, no deflection. MANY Dems voted for the war. MANY Dems said there were WMD. It was clearly a joint effort in making the case for and voting for that war.

[Cap'n Cat]

Hen, we all know your Conk ways. Distort and deflect.

Nope. No distortion, no deflection. MANY Dems voted for the war. MANY Dems said there were WMD. It was clearly a joint effort in making the case for and voting for that war.

Yep, then, when the Bush Wermacht claims were found to be lies, they backed away from the stance, to a chorus of boos from the Reichsvolk. Even Colin Powell quit because he was compelled to force the lies onto the UN.

You lose. Gain some big picture perspective, Hen, it can help you not get buried so often here.