Intelligent Design/Creationism/Religion

[D1B]

What the hell does he know. He's not even smart enough to find a cure for ALS.

God, right?

snickerin.....

[death dealer]

What the hell does he know. He's not even smart enough to find a cure for ALS.

I wish he would. My mom has it, and it sucks.

[D1B]

What the hell does he know. He's not even smart enough to find a cure for ALS.

I wish he would. My mom has it, and it sucks.

What kind of god creates beings he supposedly loves but also creates a world of horrible diseases that torment them. What an asshole.

[SeattleGriz]

I wish he would. My mom has it, and it sucks.

What kind of god creates beings he supposedly loves but also creates a world of horrible diseases that torment them. What an asshole.

Hell dude, why stop at preventing horrible diseases. How about He take away all free will and consequences? Just bless us all with money, power and the ability to fly? Someone sticks their hand in a running motor, they don't lose it, but money drops out their ass. Drunk driver smashes into a family and they don't die, they magically go to Disneyland.

I see what you are saying now.

[death dealer]

What kind of god creates beings he supposedly loves but also creates a world of horrible diseases that torment them. What an asshole.

Hell dude, why stop at preventing horrible diseases. How about He take away all free will and consequences? Just bless us all with money, power and the ability to fly? Someone sticks their hand in a running motor, they don't lose it, but money drops out their ass. Drunk driver smashes into a family and they don't die, they magically go to Disneyland.

I see what you are saying now.

Why not? If there were an all powerful being up there somewhere, why does he have to make the world function the way it does? How does free will require bad outcomes? And how does random bad shit have anything to do with free will. My mom's ALS is a randomly occurring type that has no genetic correlation and no known environmental cause. My mom is a very religious woman who has never smoked, drank a drop of alcohol, and prays everyday. Hell of a lot of good it did her. As a reward for her devout following of old Yahweh she gets to spend what little of her life she has left drooling on herself, unable to communicate effectively, struggling to hang on to any shred of independence, but ultimately confined to a wheelchair. She can't eat or drink, but has to get all of her caloric intake through a feeding tube, so she can't even enjoy the taste of food. And one day soon, she will find it impossible to even take a breath at which point she will suffocate and die. Thanks God! Good job taking care of one of your most devoted children!! Sign me up for that plan, sounds like a barrel of monkeys!

[CitadelGrad]

Who are we to question god's wisdom and plan? He is the supreme being and his word is the bible. How do we know this? Because the bible says so. Any more questions?

[SeattleGriz]

Hell dude, why stop at preventing horrible diseases. How about He take away all free will and consequences? Just bless us all with money, power and the ability to fly? Someone sticks their hand in a running motor, they don't lose it, but money drops out their ass. Drunk driver smashes into a family and they don't die, they magically go to Disneyland.

I see what you are saying now.

Why not? If there were an all powerful being up there somewhere, why does he have to make the world function the way it does? How does free will require bad outcomes? And how does random bad shit have anything to do with free will. My mom's ALS is a randomly occurring type that has no genetic correlation and no known environmental cause. My mom is a very religious woman who has never smoked, drank a drop of alcohol, and prays everyday. Hell of a lot of good it did her. As a reward for her devout following of old Yahweh she gets to spend what little of her life she has left drooling on herself, unable to communicate effectively, struggling to hang on to any shred of independence, but ultimately confined to a wheelchair. She can't eat or drink, but has to get all of her caloric intake through a feeding tube, so she can't even enjoy the taste of food. And one day soon, she will find it impossible to even take a breath at which point she will suffocate and die. Thanks God! Good job taking care of one of your most devoted children!! Sign me up for that plan, sounds like a barrel of monkeys!

One direction I see people who don't believe in God always take, is that if God was good, then we all would have daisies flying out our asses. Who's to say that is our purpose in life? Maybe our life on this planet is to teach us about the power of thoughts and actions and the consequences that follow.

Why does God have to fall into your preconceived ideas? Instead of asking why doesn't God make the world better, why not ask what we are here for? You know the answer will never come to you. Besides, the Bible does discuss the fall of Man and why we suffer - whether you believe it or not, it is at least covered.

When you read through the Bible, there is one common theme. No matter how righteous, all of us fall short of God - that coupled with how there is always a price to pay for our actions. That is why I ask about our purpose on this planet and maybe it is to teach us for the afterlife? Why would the Bible pound that theme home over and over if it didn't matter? Maybe there are universal rules as to what is allowed and not allowed and Earth is the learner course.

As you should easily see, I don't have the answers. I can just plug along with what I think God would have me to do.

Now, with all that being said, I am sorry to hear about your mother. At most certainly not to sound flippant, but as you describe her and her devout faith, I can't help but think how I fall short in so many ways.

[D1B]

Why not? If there were an all powerful being up there somewhere, why does he have to make the world function the way it does? How does free will require bad outcomes? And how does random bad shit have anything to do with free will. My mom's ALS is a randomly occurring type that has no genetic correlation and no known environmental cause. My mom is a very religious woman who has never smoked, drank a drop of alcohol, and prays everyday. Hell of a lot of good it did her. As a reward for her devout following of old Yahweh she gets to spend what little of her life she has left drooling on herself, unable to communicate effectively, struggling to hang on to any shred of independence, but ultimately confined to a wheelchair. She can't eat or drink, but has to get all of her caloric intake through a feeding tube, so she can't even enjoy the taste of food. And one day soon, she will find it impossible to even take a breath at which point she will suffocate and die. Thanks God! Good job taking care of one of your most devoted children!! Sign me up for that plan, sounds like a barrel of monkeys!

One direction I see people who don't believe in God always take, is that if God was good, then we all would have daisies flying out our asses. Who's to say that is our purpose in life? Maybe our life on this planet is to teach us about the power of thoughts and actions and the consequences that follow.

Why does God have to fall into your preconceived ideas? Instead of asking why doesn't God make the world better, why not ask what we are here for? You know the answer will never come to you. Besides, the Bible does discuss the fall of Man and why we suffer - whether you believe it or not, it is at least covered.

When you read through the Bible, there is one common theme. No matter how righteous, all of us fall short of God - that coupled with how there is always a price to pay for our actions. That is why I ask about our purpose on this planet and maybe it is to teach us for the afterlife? Why would the Bible pound that theme home over and over if it didn't matter? Maybe there are universal rules as to what is allowed and not allowed and Earth is the learner course.

As you should easily see, I don't have the answers. I can just plug along with what I think God would have me to do.

Now, with all that being said, I am sorry to hear about your mother. At most certainly not to sound flippant, but as you describe her and her devout faith, I can't help but think how I fall short in so many ways.

Price to pay for our actions? Are you serious? The whole of christianity is built upon two things - salvation and forgiveness. The catholic church made and makes a killing forgiving sins. You can shit on the world and go to confession, say 10 hail marys and be swept clean.

Matter of fact, the myth of christ, where god the father knocks up a random virgin to give birth to himself so he can then be murdered to forgive the sins of his murderers is prime example of no accountibility. Jesus died for our sins.

Yeah there's a price to pay.

Seattle, the god of your bible is a prick, plain and simple. He's also stupid and vain. I read the bible more than you do. It's an inexhaustible source of myth, absurdity and contradiction to be used against delusional and scared people like you Joe, Hen and Hogan. You (Joltin Joe) can go on forever about electron colliders and Plato, but the truth is all you guys know about, or if you're honest like Andy, believe about "god", is found in your bible. And this is so sad.

[SeattleGriz]

Price to pay for our actions? Are you serious? The whole of christianity is built upon two things - salvation and forgiveness. The catholic church made and makes a killing forgiving sins. You can shit on the world and go to confession, say 10 hail marys and be swept clean.

Matter of fact, the myth of christ, where god the father knocks up a random virgin to give birth to himself so he can then be murdered to forgive the sins of his murderers is prime example of no accountibility. Jesus died for our sins.

Yeah there's a price to pay.

Seattle, the god of your bible is a prick, plain and simple. He's also stupid and vain. I read the bible more than you do. It's an inexhaustible source of myth, absurdity and contradiction to be used against delusional and scared people like you Joe, Hen and Hogan. You (Joltin Joe) can go on forever about electron colliders and Plato, but the truth is all you guys know about, or if you're honest like Andy, believe about "god", is found in your bible. And this is so sad.

I admit I am not very happy about those that ask for forgiveness on their death bed, but such is the parable of the wealthy farmer and his workers. The one works all day and gets a quarter and then is pissed when the farmer hires a worker for the last hour of the day and pays him the same amount. It's not mine to judge.

Committing sin after sin and saying a few verses doesn't fit into my idea of repentance. You have to try your best to not commit the same sin again. Once again, it's not mine to judge, but that is how I always viewed repenting.

Salvation and forgiveness...OH NO! What horrible things to build a religion upon! Oh despair! I find it interesting how so many non believers proclaim Christianity was written by a bunch of dusty old rubes that were trying to keep the woman down, or fool humanity into giving them their money! If that is in fact true, then they sure as hell were scammers WAY ahead of their time. So smart, they even figured out a way to keep the actual word untouched for centuries (referring to the Dead Sea Scrolls). Now THAT is some heavy multi level marketing.

If man did create God and this elaborate ruse to steal money, why bring in Christ? It is because of Christ that man is able to speak directly with God. No more middle man, and that means every person is free to worship of their own (ie no church needed) accord. Don't have to give money to the church if you don't believe in the message.

On a separate note, I have noticed a good amount of people who dislike Christianity had it crammed down their throats as kids. I have said it before, I was lucky to come to Christianity much later in life and it was of my own choosing.

[D1B]

Price to pay for our actions? Are you serious? The whole of christianity is built upon two things - salvation and forgiveness. The catholic church made and makes a killing forgiving sins. You can shit on the world and go to confession, say 10 hail marys and be swept clean.

Matter of fact, the myth of christ, where god the father knocks up a random virgin to give birth to himself so he can then be murdered to forgive the sins of his murderers is prime example of no accountibility. Jesus died for our sins.

Yeah there's a price to pay.

Seattle, the god of your bible is a prick, plain and simple. He's also stupid and vain. I read the bible more than you do. It's an inexhaustible source of myth, absurdity and contradiction to be used against delusional and scared people like you Joe, Hen and Hogan. You (Joltin Joe) can go on forever about electron colliders and Plato, but the truth is all you guys know about, or if you're honest like Andy, believe about "god", is found in your bible. And this is so sad.

I admit I am not very happy about those that ask for forgiveness on their death bed, but such is the parable of the wealthy farmer and his workers. The one works all day and gets a quarter and then is pissed when the farmer hires a worker for the last hour of the day and pays him the same amount. It's not mine to judge.

Committing sin after sin and saying a few verses doesn't fit into my idea of repentance. You have to try your best to not commit the same sin again. Once again, it's not mine to judge, but that is how I always viewed repenting.

Salvation and forgiveness...OH NO! What horrible things to build a religion upon! Oh despair! I find it interesting how so many non believers proclaim Christianity was written by a bunch of dusty old rubes that were trying to keep the woman down, or fool humanity into giving them their money! If that is in fact true, then they sure as hell were scammers WAY ahead of their time. So smart, they even figured out a way to keep the actual word untouched for centuries (referring to the Dead Sea Scrolls). Now THAT is some heavy multi level marketing.

If man did create God and this elaborate ruse to steal money, why bring in Christ? It is because of Christ that man is able to speak directly with God. No more middle man, and that means every person is free to worship of their own (ie no church needed) accord. Don't have to give money to the church if you don't believe in the message.

On a separate note, I have noticed a good amount of people who dislike Christianity had it crammed down their throats as kids. I have said it before, I was lucky to come to Christianity much later in life and it was of my own choosing.

SG, a couple comments.

You're missing the point regarding salvation. Salvation IS an excellent foundation for organized religion. It's perfect, for organized religion. Once you promise eternal salvation, you can also put conditions on it. In your case, in order to live forever, among other things, you have to be a christian and only a christian. Some tell you you have to go to church in order to get into heaven. Many fundamentalist christians will tell you you have to donate to the church to get to heaven. Other cults and religons have been atrocious. No one profits more and does this better than the Scientologists and the Catholics

I've devoted practically my entire adult life to serving the poor and will continue to do so. According to you and your church, I will go to hell because I reject jesus.

SG, I would recommend you step outside your comfort zone and read up on the history of the bible. You will find it's not quite the cohesive word of god you think it is. Perhaps hundreds of authors have contributed and it has been extensively tinkered with (again, by the catholic church) for 2,000 years.

Why bring in Christ? Well, jesus is a middle man. You're right, it's hard to have a relationship with something that doesn't look or act like us.... Brilliant move by the architects to invent him - jesus and salvation through him are the marketing and profit centers for christainity. But it's still a myth. An unoriginal one too - the story of jesus was done a hundred times before by many other religions, it's nothing new.

I don't think christianity was originally a ruse to steal money...control people? - yes. Back in the bronze age, when it was concocted, and into prehistory for other religions, people needed it to establish identity, pass down culture and history, maintain order, lacking thought out laws and critical ethical inquiry - to provied a basis or imperative for moral and ethical behavior, to explain the riddles and tyranny of nature and most important - to provide hope and rationalize suffering. Life was very difficult back then and Marx was and still is right..."Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."

Is is a ruse to steal money now - absolutely. It's also still a ruse to control people - look at the middle east and the american south. Not much has changed, other than we don't really need it, like we used to.

I always chuckle at the inevitable sigh of the christian apologist - "you had religion shoved down your throat therefore thats why you're not religious" While true for some, maybe, but it's lazy. I enjoyed my time in the church and especially loved my grade school (catholic) and visit every once in a while. I, like millions of other rational people, started asking questions and did not get decent answers. Long story short, if I'm going to be expected to spend the amount of time and money to be part of church or religion, it better make sense. Well christianity doesn't make sense and all you need to do to see why is open a bible, a history book or a newspaper.

Most people are religious due to birth. They had no choice. If what you're saying is true, and you did your research and found christiainity to be reasonable, then you are the exception. I'm sure it's personal, but I'd be curious as to your reasoning.

[89Hen]

You can shit on the world and go to confession, say 10 hail marys and be swept clean.

Sorry Catholicism didn't work out for you, but it's clear you don't understand it.

[D1B]

You can shit on the world and go to confession, say 10 hail marys and be swept clean.

Sorry Catholicism didn't work out for you, but it's clear you don't understand it.

Bullshit. It's a scam just like Scientology. You're a fool.

[Cap'n Cat]

Sorry Catholicism didn't work out for you, but it's clear you don't understand it.

Bullshit. It's a scam just like Scientology. You're a fool.

89Hen, flailing: