Oh, My....Priest Sex Abuse Linked to 13 Suicides in Belgium

[Cap'n Cat]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39093978/ns ... ws-europe/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BRUSSELS — Hundreds of sex abuse victims have come forward in Belgium with harrowing accounts of molestation by Catholic clergy that reportedly led to at least 13 suicides and affected children as young as two, a special commission said Friday.

Professor Peter Adriaenssens, chairman of the commission, said the abuse in Belgium may have been even more rampant than the 200-page report suggests.

"Reality is worse than what we present here today because not everyone shares such things automatically in a first contact with the commission," he told reporters.

Adriaenssens, a child psychiatrist who has worked with trauma victims for 23 years, said nothing had prepared him for the stories of abuse that blighted the lives of victims.

"We don't just talk about touching. We are talking about oral and anal abuse, forced masturbation and mutual masturbation. We talk about people who have gone through serious abuse," Adriaenssens said.

Most of the abuse happened during the 1960s and 1970s, he said.

The Roman Catholic Church in Belgium experienced the findings as "a body blow," Adriaenssens said.






I expect a civil discussion onthis, especially from abuse apologists.

Carry on.

[AZGrizFan]

WAFJ.

You can in no way positively confirm a connection between the abuse and the suicides.

[Cap'n Cat]

WAFJ.

You can in no way positively confirm a connection between the abuse and the suicides.

What a bigger joke! How would you feel carrying that around for all those years, bitch?

Apparently, Z, people one helluva lot smarter than you have AND the Belgian Catholic Church agrees with them.

Quit apologizing for priests who tie up teenage boys and probe their anuses with crucifixes.

[AZGrizFan]

WAFJ.

You can in no way positively confirm a connection between the abuse and the suicides.

What a bigger joke! How would you feel carrying that around for all those years, bitch?

Apparently, Z, people one helluva lot smarter than you have AND the Belgian Catholic Church agrees with them.

Quit apologizing for priests who tie up teenage boys and probe their anuses with crucifixes.

I'm not apologizing for anyone. But there are millions of people who are abused by their parents, their brothers/sisters, their aunts/uncles AND their priests who don't commit suicide. Just because they committed suicide doesn't mean it was because of the abuse.

iT just proves they were weak.

[Cap'n Cat]

What a bigger joke! How would you feel carrying that around for all those years, bitch?

Apparently, Z, people one helluva lot smarter than you have AND the Belgian Catholic Church agrees with them.

Quit apologizing for priests who tie up teenage boys and probe their anuses with crucifixes.

I'm not apologizing for anyone. But there are millions of people who are abused by their parents, their brothers/sisters, their aunts/uncles AND their priests who don't commit suicide. Just because they committed suicide doesn't mean it was because of the abuse.

iT just proves they were weak.

Love ya, Z.

Regarding the abuse, there have been millions and millions of kids who have been abused by their parents, this I grant you, but, what if some of those millions and millions wanted to confide in a priest about this issue and get help?

So, fvck, they go to the confessional to tell a sad story and seek guidance and come out with a prolapsed asshole and a face full of cum!

[JoltinJoe]

I think this article by Thomas Plante, PhD, underscores the seriousness of the problem in times past, while also making some very valid points about how the media's fixation with the Catholic Church distorts the truth:

http://www.psychwww.com/psyrelig/plante.html

[Cap'n Cat]

I think this article by Thomas Plante, PhD, underscores the seriousness of the problem in times past, while also making some very valid points about how the media's fixation with the Catholic Church distorts the truth:

http://www.psychwww.com/psyrelig/plante.html

Anytime hypocrisy and abuse of children comes up, Jose', be it by the Department of Defense, the American Legion, Minnesota Atheists, or the Catholic Church, it will be exposed. Lame attempt at deflection, Joe.

[andy7171]

How about, all these priests found guilty of these accusation should be thrown in jail to rot.

If they are still alive.

[JoltinJoe]

I think this article by Thomas Plante, PhD, underscores the seriousness of the problem in times past, while also making some very valid points about how the media's fixation with the Catholic Church distorts the truth:

http://www.psychwww.com/psyrelig/plante.html

Anytime hypocrisy and abuse of children comes up, Jose', be it by the Department of Defense, the American Legion, Minnesota Atheists, or the Catholic Church, it will be exposed. Lame attempt at deflection, Joe.

Really ... waiting eagerly then for the authorized investigation into abuse within the Belgium school system

PS -- Take it up with Dr. Plante. He's the one saying that the media have a fixation with the Catholic Church's problem with this issue.

[Cap'n Cat]

Anytime hypocrisy and abuse of children comes up, Jose', be it by the Department of Defense, the American Legion, Minnesota Atheists, or the Catholic Church, it will be exposed. Lame attempt at deflection, Joe.

Really ... waiting eagerly then for the authorized investigation into abuse within the Belgium school system

Well, Joe, start a letter-writing campaign to wrong that right, OK? You have the power, start putting it to good use instead of defending your Church against its dastardly deeds.



PS - I am just reporting the news, Joe. You are the only one who consistently comes to the defense of your pedophile brethren. I have nothing for Dr. Plante, he may be correct, he may not.

[JoltinJoe]

I've never defended the perps. They're criminals and deserve to be punished severely. I don't defend cover-ups. Anyone who covers up is an accessory to a crime.

What I do find troubling is why there is a concerted effort to distort the facts and present this as a uniquely Catholic Church problem. You call me an apologist. But in buying into this nonsense that this is a Catholic-only problem, you ironically become an apologist for all other abusers. Makes you wonder if you care more about damaging the image of the Church than the overall well-being of abused children.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/04/07/mean-men.html

[Cap'n Cat]

Apparently, you haven't read the link on this.

[AZGrizFan]

I'm not apologizing for anyone. But there are millions of people who are abused by their parents, their brothers/sisters, their aunts/uncles AND their priests who don't commit suicide. Just because they committed suicide doesn't mean it was because of the abuse.

iT just proves they were weak.

Love ya, Z.

Regarding the abuse, there have been millions and millions of kids who have been abused by their parents, this I grant you, but, what if some of those millions and millions wanted to confide in a priest about this issue and get help?

So, fvck, they go to the confessional to tell a sad story and seek guidance and come out with a prolapsed asshole and a face full of cum!

Man...talk about adding insult to injury.

[Cap'n Cat]

Love ya, Z.

Regarding the abuse, there have been millions and millions of kids who have been abused by their parents, this I grant you, but, what if some of those millions and millions wanted to confide in a priest about this issue and get help?

So, fvck, they go to the confessional to tell a sad story and seek guidance and come out with a prolapsed asshole and a face full of cum!

Man...talk about adding insult to injury.

What, you don't think some church vestibules rival porn video shoots?

[D1B]

I've never defended the perps. They're criminals and deserve to be punished severely. I don't defend cover-ups. Anyone who covers up is an accessory to a crime.

What I do find troubling is why there is a concerted effort to distort the facts and present this as a uniquely Catholic Church problem. You call me an apologist. But in buying into this nonsense that this is a Catholic-only problem, you ironically become an apologist for all other abusers. Makes you wonder if you care more about damaging the image of the Church than the overall well-being of abused children.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/04/07/mean-men.html

Bullshit Joe. Throughout these threads you've relied on lies, twisting facts, back room lawyer scumbag tricks and every logic fallacy in the book to deflect blame and accountibility. You're a cultist, no different than the idiot who blindly followed Jim Jones or the german people obsessed with Hiter, their messiah. You'll do anything to protect your church and everyone here is sick and tired of you doing this.

You've even admitted that you would never ever allow your children to left unattended with a catholic priest. Yet you would not think twice about about leaving them with a close friend or even a less close baby sitter. Joe, you need to be more honest with yourself and quit relying on me to point out your areas of needed improvement.

This is a uniquely catholic problem for many reasons.

First, priests should not be fucking young boys. Anyone can be a parent - a psychopath, serial killer rapist, Citadel Grad - anyone. So shit unfortunately is going to happen in some cases. Not everyone can (or should) be a priest. Priests - men of the cloth, your middleman in communicating with god are supposed to be better than everyone else - smarter, wiser, more devout, more loving and caring. They have answered a calling to devote their lives to jesus christ, our savior and most holy one - YOUR god. They of all people, should not be fucking young boys. We, here, now, won't even go into how this situation relates to the objective source of truth BS or that if any asshat can be a priest, why do you need em? Well, you won't have to worry about this because no one wants to be a priest anyway - you're almost losing them faster than members of your chuch.

What a lazy, schoolgirl and cowardly argument too LJ..."well they do it tooooo":ohno:

Here's another perspective.

The occurrence of sexual abuse in society at large is quite irrelevant to the issue of sexual abuse within the Catholic church. There are particular consequences to sexual transgression or abuse by members of the Catholic clergy because the clergy renders itself distinct from the rest of society by the vow of celibacy. In the minds and hearts of many Catholics, the vow of celibacy is linked with the stature of the priest and the trust with which he is invested by the lay community, and by the church hierarchy. The breaking of that vow has profound spiritual implications, which are in no way diminished by relative comparison to instances of sexual abuse in society at large. (Roberts, T, 'HBO Program on sex and priests denounced by church officials', National Catholic Reporter, Vol 32 No 29, 17 May 1996, p 5)

Second is the elaborate coverup by church hierarchy all the way up to the pope, that continues to this day. Talk about not caring about children and only caring about the financial health of the church!The church should not be covering up evidence that can lead to the arrests of offending priests and save children the horror of being raped by thier priest. This has been going on for hundreds of years and perhaps millions of children have been raped and murdered by the church. Teachers would not get away with this. Sure they abuse children too, but the school districts and fellow teachers are not in on it too, helping by being silent or transferring teachers or not cooperating with the police. *Its nice though to see you acknowledge the catholic church's cover up of this scandal. There is hope for you yet. Small hope.

Short but thorough examples of the coverup...

There has been a nationwide pattern which I have observed over the last 35 years. Bishops know of ongoing sexual misconduct by Catholic priests and religious and bishops co-operate to keep such misconduct from becoming public knowledge. The following are uniform practices: failing to investigate indications of any sexual misconduct, even with children; failing to supervise properly the cleric in his assignment, failing to ensure that the cleric is prosecuted for misconduct with children. Once an incident occurs, energy and policies at the highest levels of Church authority have been directed to damage control, avoidance of scandal at all costs, and efforts to placate and manipulate victims and families. The latter often involves intimidation, misleading information, and even fraudulent means, if necessary. Policy also involves maintaining the priest in a new assignment without proper supervision and without informing the congregation where the abusive behaviour usually continues. (Sipe, A W R, Preliminary expert report, p 16)

LJ - name one other institution, church, business, school district that has behaved the way the catholic church has and can actually create it own laws (canon law) to ensure secrecy and covering up of crimes, then hides behind those same "laws".

*2000 years of having jesus christ and the greatest thinkers in the history of humanity on their team and it took them until now to figure out that abusing children is wrong and should not be tolerated, at all, in the church. Simply stunning.

Third, the catholic church contines to be stuck in the middles ages. While every other church, many splitting from the archaic catholics, is changing to meet the needs of their employees in the modern age, the catholics continue to put unrealistic requirements on it priests. They should allow priests to marry and they should recognize that almost all of their priests are homosexuals and allow them to marry and quit discriminating against gays. Would this solve the problem of catholic priests raping adolescent and infant boys? No, but god damn it would help.

LJ, perhaps most disturbing about you is your simple failure to acknowledge the horriffic nature of some of your abuse cases and show some sympathy for victims. Yes, your cases. You are partially responsible. Perhap more responsible than others because you have taken it upon yourself to openly defend your evil cult and it pedophile perpetrators. Your disregard for victims was breathtaking when your only response to the priest abusing hundreds of deaf boys thread was to deflect blame. Hundreds of handicapped boys were abused by one of your own and all you can do is go into full lawyer-mode. Liar Joe, there is something wrong, perhaps evil, with you and I hope you get some help, and not from your priest.

[blueballs]

I wonder if there are any statistics comparing the occurance of pedophilia in Catholic Priests to Protestant Clergy. If the numbers aren't similar, and the sample size would be big enough to draw meaningful conclusions, one can assume that the price of the Catholic doctrine of denying pussy to their clergy is paid by the sphincters of their young boys.

That ain't a good trade...

[D1B]

I wonder if there are any statistics comparing the occurance of pedophilia in Catholic Priests to Protestant Clergy. If the numbers aren't similar, and the sample size would be big enough to draw meaningful conclusions, one can assume that the price of the Catholic doctrine of denying pussy to their clergy is paid by the sphincters of their young boys.

That ain't a good trade...

P, got to be. Additonally, until very recently, the catholic church was protected haven for pedophiles.

'The problem is not just with the fraction of priests who molests youngsters, but in
an ecclesiastical power structure which harbours pedophiles, conceals other
sexual behaviour patterns among its clerics and uses the strategies of duplicity
and counterattack against the victims.'- Joughin, M. 'Church response to the sex
abuse priest', In Fidelity, No.8. September 1995, p. 1.

The evidence is that a higher percentage of Catholic priests and male Religious molest
children more than other ministers of religion. Clergy of all denominations do not molest
equally. In her foreword, the lawyer, Sylvia Demerest cites a 1995 survey of 19,000
treating professionals, funded by the National Centre on Child Abuse and Neglect. The
study found that in the US, 94% of abuses by religious authorities were sexual in nature.
Over half of these cases (54%) involved perpetrators and victims who were Catholic, even
though Roman Catholics comprise only 25% of the United States population. The minor
victims of priest abuse are overwhelmingly boys and teenagers, (80­90%), which is
contrary to the pattern of abuse in the general population.

American studies are not the only ones which defy the assumption that clergy of
all denominations abuse equally. The Briggs­Hawen study included 200
convicted child molesters in New South Wales, Australia. It found that 93% of
convicted and imprisoned child molesters had themselves been sexually abused as
children and 60% stated that they had been abused by a Catholic priest or
Brother.

[JoltinJoe]

I wonder if there are any statistics comparing the occurance of pedophilia in Catholic Priests to Protestant Clergy. If the numbers aren't similar, and the sample size would be big enough to draw meaningful conclusions, one can assume that the price of the Catholic doctrine of denying pussy to their clergy is paid by the sphincters of their young boys.

That ain't a good trade...

The numbers are there, and establish priests committed abuse at the same rate as other clergy (no more or no less), and at a rate significantly lower than the general population as a whole.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/04/07/mean-men.html

Yes, there are a lot of whack-job, bigots who hate Catholics and rail on message boards ad nauseum with their lies, hate-filled vitriol, and ignorance. But they are full of shit -- just pathetic haters who lift anti-Catholic bullshit from KKK-affiliated websites.

Just for comparision, I cited an article from Newsweek. There is also a study published by Oxford University press, authored by Dr. Philip Jenkins, which establishes that Catholic clergy do not commit abuse at rate higher than other clergy (and again, considerably lower than the general population). There is also the report of Dr. Thomas Plante.

This is the hhate-site where D1Bigot got his information.

http://alterboys.tripod.com/Faith/Studies_on_Prx.html

[D1B]

I wonder if there are any statistics comparing the occurance of pedophilia in Catholic Priests to Protestant Clergy. If the numbers aren't similar, and the sample size would be big enough to draw meaningful conclusions, one can assume that the price of the Catholic doctrine of denying pussy to their clergy is paid by the sphincters of their young boys.

That ain't a good trade...

The numbers are there, and establish priests committed abuse at the same rate as other clergy (no more or no less), and at a rate significantly lower than the general population as a whole.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/04/07/mean-men.html

Yes, there are a lot of whack-job, bigots who hate Catholics and rail on message boards ad nauseum with their lies, hate-filled vitriol, and ignorance. But they are full of shit -- just pathetic haters who lift anti-Catholic bullshit from KKK-affiliated websites.

Just for comparision, I cited an article from Newsweek. There is also a study published by Oxford University press, authored by Dr. Philip Jenkins, which establishes that Catholic clergy do not commit abuse at rate higher than other clergy (and again, considerably lower than the general population). There is also the report of Dr. Thomas Plante.

This is the hhate-site where D1Bigot got his information.

http://alterboys.tripod.com/Faith/Studies_on_Prx.html

Liar Joe, again, catholic priests should not be raping children. What don't you understand about this?

As mentioned earlier, start your own campaign to expose and rid the protestants and all parents of abuse. Write articles exposing them - the children are relying on you! Might be a good place to start in your own church.

All one has to do is the math and you'll conclude that catholic priests are by far the largest group of christian scumbag pedophiles and rapists

idiot parishoners who defer to authority and think priests are holy + access to children + church protection and cover up at the highest level + access to the world's best lawyers + access to worlds best marketing and propaganda teams + reluctance to prosecute priests + billions of dollar to keep victims quiet = catholic priests are by far the worst christians

[D1B]

I wonder if there are any statistics comparing the occurance of pedophilia in Catholic Priests to Protestant Clergy. If the numbers aren't similar, and the sample size would be big enough to draw meaningful conclusions, one can assume that the price of the Catholic doctrine of denying pussy to their clergy is paid by the sphincters of their young boys.

That ain't a good trade...

The numbers are there, and establish priests committed abuse at the same rate as other clergy (no more or no less), and at a rate significantly lower than the general population as a whole.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/04/07/mean-men.html

Yes, there are a lot of whack-job, bigots who hate Catholics and rail on message boards ad nauseum with their lies, hate-filled vitriol, and ignorance. But they are full of shit -- just pathetic haters who lift anti-Catholic bullshit from KKK-affiliated websites.

Just for comparision, I cited an article from Newsweek. There is also a study published by Oxford University press, authored by Dr. Philip Jenkins, which establishes that Catholic clergy do not commit abuse at rate higher than other clergy (and again, considerably lower than the general population). There is also the report of Dr. Thomas Plante.

This is the hhate-site where D1Bigot got his information.

http://alterboys.tripod.com/Faith/Studies_on_Prx.html

Another example of scumbag Liar Joe's devious attempts to deceive...

The Jenkins study he always cites (the only one btw...) was funded by......drumrolll.......

The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops

Stunning.

[Gil Dobie]

Usually when you see someone attacking something like this, you find out they have a secret past of doing the same thing, aka Repulican congressmen bashing gays, but have a gay lover. Do the Cap'n and D1B have a history of abusing each other.

[D1B]

Usually when you see someone attacking something like this, you find out they have a secret past of doing the same thing, aka Repulican congressmen bashing gays, but have a gay lover. Do the Cap'n and D1B have a history of abusing each other.

Yes. What do you expect? We grew up catholic.

[Gil Dobie]

Usually when you see someone attacking something like this, you find out they have a secret past of doing the same thing, aka Repulican congressmen bashing gays, but have a gay lover. Do the Cap'n and D1B have a history of abusing each other.

Yes. What do you expect? We grew up catholic.

[JoltinJoe]

The numbers are there, and establish priests committed abuse at the same rate as other clergy (no more or no less), and at a rate significantly lower than the general population as a whole.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/04/07/mean-men.html

Yes, there are a lot of whack-job, bigots who hate Catholics and rail on message boards ad nauseum with their lies, hate-filled vitriol, and ignorance. But they are full of **** -- just pathetic haters who lift anti-Catholic bullshit from KKK-affiliated websites.

Just for comparision, I cited an article from Newsweek. There is also a study published by Oxford University press, authored by Dr. Philip Jenkins, which establishes that Catholic clergy do not commit abuse at rate higher than other clergy (and again, considerably lower than the general population). There is also the report of Dr. Thomas Plante.

This is the hhate-site where D1Bigot got his information.

http://alterboys.tripod.com/Faith/Studies_on_Prx.html

Another example of scumbag Liar Joe's devious attempts to deceive...

The Jenkins study he always cites (the only one btw...) was funded by......drumrolll.......

The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops

Stunning.

More bullshit.

The Jenkins study published by Oxford University Press WAS NOT funded by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.

And there have been THREE comprehensive studies (Jenkins, Plante and the John Jay School of Criminal Research) all reaching the same conclusion: Catholic priests do not abuse children at a rate higher than other clergy and that the rate of abuse by Catholic priests is significantly lower than the general population.

I know you are an enraged, whack-job bigot and you so you will lie all you want. The facts are the facts.

[D1B]

Another example of scumbag Liar Joe's devious attempts to deceive...

The Jenkins study he always cites (the only one btw...) was funded by......drumrolll.......

The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops

Stunning.

More bullshit.

The Jenkins study published by Oxford University Press WAS NOT funded by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.

And there have been THREE comprehensive studies (Jenkins, Plante and the John Jay School of Criminal Research) all reaching the same conclusion: Catholic priests do not abuse children at a rate higher than other clergy and that the rate of abuse by Catholic priests is significantly lower than the general population.

I know you are an enraged, whack-job bigot and you so you will lie all you want. The facts are the facts.

Uhhhhhhhh, wrong again Liar Joe. Just read an article your hero and fellow christian Jenkins wrote for The Conservative where he cites the John Jay Study being...

"By far the best quantitative evidence derives from the survey carried out by John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York in 2004, entitled “The Nature and Scope of the Problem of Sexual Abuse of Minors by Catholic Priests and Deacons in the United States.” Specifically, it examined all plausible complaints of sexual abuse by U.S. clergy between 1950 and 2002, a cohort of around 110,000 men. Although this study was sponsored by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, the researchers were independent, and the final report was widely praised.* by catholics..."

So 3 studies, or better yet "surveys" is conclusive? So the best thing you have, Liar Joe, is a survey funded by the Conference of Catholic Bishops.