Conks: Sorry, But You Own These Quran Burnin' Apes....

[Cap'n Cat]

Jan Brewer would be proud she's made your short list.

Short, like her career.

[youngterrier]

bump

[D1B]

The God of Christianity is a "Trinity." Do you have any indication that the concept of "Allah" includes the concept of a "Trinity,"....three yet one?

Funny, I'm pretty sure Judaism does not share that concept...yet you are asserting that Judaism and Christianity worship the same God....

All three religions were spawned from the myths and stories of ancient hebrew tribes in what is now Israel. They all followed Abraham at the time. So this is a powerful argument that they worship the "same" god. MOF, I used it a few times to boil the blood of an insane cultist or two here. The pope also uses this argument at times...

“The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.

MOF here a picture of the greatest pope of our lifetime kissing the Koran


JP was a good man

Anyhoo, is this argument factual? yes. Is it right? no. Man made god and all three went their separate, very separate paths. Hell the christians went from Abraham's lone tyrant to a three headed monster where one of the monsters was human and quite cool at times. A brilliant move and IMO why western civilization aint still cutting off people's heads right now

They worship vastly different gods.

[mrklean]

This clown "preacher" at that church in Florida is the demon spawn of the likes of these classic Conk hatemongers:


"Next? You. Yeah, you, the towel-headed azzhole."

More loving Christians..................

[CID1990]

When they burn bibles in Teheran and then Christians in Florida start cutting off heads and making suicide bombs because of it.... then give me a call.

[blueballs]

When they burn bibles in Teheran and then Christians in Florida start cutting off heads and making suicide bombs because of it.... then give me a call.

... which gives me an idea.

How about we make a list of all the wonderful inventions, innovations, accomplishments in statesmanship, peace, etc. muslims have contributed to mankind in one column and make the same list for Jews and Christians in another column. I'm interested to see how that would turn out... WAIT!!!! I already know... let's just compare muslims and jews as it pertains to the Nobel Peace Prize (the fact that Obama won it not withstanding):

From a pool of 1.4 BILLION Muslims which are 20% of the world's population (2 out of every 10 people)
Literature

1988 - Najib Mahfooz

Peace

1978 - Anwar El-Sadat

1994 - Yasser Arafat *

2003 - Shirin Ebadi

Chemistry

1999 - Ahmed Zewail

Physics

Abdus Salam



* NOTE: Norwegian, Kaare Kristiansen, was a member of the Nobel Committee. He resigned in 1994 to protest the awarding of a Nobel "Peace Prize" to Yasser Arafat, whom he correctly labeled a "terrorist."


Jewish Nobel Prize Winners

From a pool of 12 million Jews which are 0.2% of the World's Population (2 out of every 1,000 people)
Literature

1910 - Paul Heyse

1927 - Henri Bergson

1958 - Boris Pasternak

1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon

1966 - Nelly Sachs

1976 - Saul Bellow

1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer

1981 - Elias Canetti

1987 - Joseph Brodsky

1991 - Nadine Gordimer

2002 - Imre Kertesz

World Peace

1911 - Alfred Fried

1911 - Tobias Asser

1968 - Rene Cassin

1973 - Henry Kissinger

1978 - Menachem Begin

1986 - Elie Wiesel

1994 - Shimon Peres

1994 - Yitzhak Rabin

1995 - Joseph Rotblat

Chemistry

1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer

1906 - Henri Moissan

1910 - Otto Wallach

1915 - Richard Willstaetter

1918 - Fritz Haber

1943 - George Charles de Hevesy

1961 - Melvin Calvin

1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz

1972 - William Howard Stein

1972 - C.B. Anfinsen

1977 - Ilya Prigogine

1979 - Herbert Charles Brown

1980 - Paul Berg

1980 - Walter Gilbert

1981 - Ronald Hoffmann

1982 - Aaron Klug

1985 - Herbert A. Hauptman

1985 - Jerome Karle

1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach

1988 - Robert Huber

1989 - Sidney Altman

1992 - Rudolph Marcus

1998 - Walter Kohn

2000 - Alan J. Heeger

2004 - Irwin Rose

2004 - Avram Hershko

2004 - Aaron Ciechanover

Economics

1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson

1971 - Simon Kuznets

1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow

1973 - Wassily Leontief

1975 - Leonid Kantorovich

1976 - Milton Friedman

1978 - Herbert A. Simon

1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein

1985 - Franco Modigliani

1987 - Robert M. Solow

1990 - Harry Markowitz

1990 - Merton Miller

1992 - Gary Becker

1993 - Rober Fogel

1994 - John Harsanyi

1994 - Reinhard Selten

1997 - Robert Merton

1997 - Myron Scholes

2001 - George Akerlof

2001 - Joseph Stiglitz

2002 - Daniel Kahneman

2005 - Robert (Israel) Aumann

Medicine

1908 - Elie Metchnikoff

1908 - Paul Erlich

1914 - Robert Barany

1922 - Otto Meyerhof

1930 - Karl Landsteiner

1931 - Otto Warburg

1936 - Otto Loewi

1944 - Joseph Erlanger

1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser

1945 - Ernst Boris Chain

1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller

1950 - Tadeus Reichstein

1952 - Selman Abraham Waksman

1953 - Hans Krebs

1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann

1958 - Joshua Lederberg

1959 - Arthur Kornberg

1964 - Konrad Bloch

1965 - Francois Jacob

1965 - Andre Lwoff

1967 - George Wald

1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg

1969 - Salvador Luria

1970 - Julius Axelrod

1970 - Sir Bernard Katz

1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman

1975 - David Baltimore

1975 - Howard Martin Temin

1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg

1977 - Rosalyn Sussman Yalow

1977 - Andrew V. Schally

1978 - Daniel Nathans

1980 - Baruj Benacerraf

1984 - Cesar Milstein

1985 - Michael Stuart Brown

1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein

1986 - Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]

1988 - Gertrude Elion

1989 - Harold Varmus

1991 - Erwin Neher

1991 - Bert Sakmann

1993 - Richard J. Roberts

1993 - Phillip Sharp

1994 - Alfred Gilman

1994 - Martin Rodbell

1995 - Edward B. Lewis

1997 - Stanley B. Prusiner

1998 - Robert F. Furchgott

2000 - Eric R. Kandel

2002 - Sydney Brenner

2002 - Robert H. Horvitz

Physics

1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson

1908 - Gabriel Lippmann

1921 - Albert Einstein

1922 - Niels Bohr

1925 - James Franck

1925 - Gustav Hertz

1943 - Gustav Stern

1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi

1945 - Wolfgang Pauli

1952 - Felix Bloch

1954 - Max Born

1958 - Igor Tamm

1958 - Il'ja Mikhailovich

1958 - Igor Yevgenyevich

1959 - Emilio Segre

1960 - Donald A. Glaser

1961 - Robert Hofstadter

1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau

1963 - Eugene P. Wigner

1965 - Richard Phillips Feynman

1965 - Julian Schwinger

1967 - Hans Albrecht Bethe

1969 - Murray Gell-Mann

1971 - Dennis Gabor

1972 - Leon N. Cooper

1973 - Brian David Josephson

1975 - Benjamin Mottleson

1976 - Burton Richter

1978 - Arno Allan Penzias

1978 - Peter L Kapitza

1979 - Stephen Weinberg

1979 - Sheldon Glashow

1988 - Leon Lederman

1988 - Melvin Schwartz

1988 - Jack Steinberger

1990 - Jerome Friedman

1992 - Georges Charpak

1995 - Martin Perl

1995 - Frederick Reines

1996 - David M. Lee

1996 - Douglas D. Osheroff

1997 - Claude Cohen-Tannoudji

2000 - Zhores I. Alferov

2003 - Vitaly Ginsburg

2003 - Alexei Abrikosov

After reviewing this list, can you supply a reason for the large discrepancy between the Arab/Islamic population's contribution to the world body and that of the Jew? There are 165 Jews listed as opposed to 6 from the Arab side.

http://www.jewishmag.co.il/99mag/nobel/nobel.htm

[Ivytalk]

blueballs nailed it: the "clash of civilizations" is one-sided, and has been for, oh, 1000 years.

[D1B]

When they burn bibles in Teheran and then Christians in Florida start cutting off heads and making suicide bombs because of it.... then give me a call.

... which gives me an idea.

How about we make a list of all the wonderful inventions, innovations, accomplishments in statesmanship, peace, etc. muslims have contributed to mankind in one column and make the same list for Jews and Christians in another column. I'm interested to see how that would turn out... WAIT!!!! I already know... let's just compare muslims and jews as it pertains to the Nobel Peace Prize (the fact that Obama won it not withstanding):

From a pool of 1.4 BILLION Muslims which are 20% of the world's population (2 out of every 10 people)
Literature

1988 - Najib Mahfooz

Peace

1978 - Anwar El-Sadat

1994 - Yasser Arafat *

2003 - Shirin Ebadi

Chemistry

1999 - Ahmed Zewail

Physics

Abdus Salam



* NOTE: Norwegian, Kaare Kristiansen, was a member of the Nobel Committee. He resigned in 1994 to protest the awarding of a Nobel "Peace Prize" to Yasser Arafat, whom he correctly labeled a "terrorist."


Jewish Nobel Prize Winners

From a pool of 12 million Jews which are 0.2% of the World's Population (2 out of every 1,000 people)
Literature

1910 - Paul Heyse

1927 - Henri Bergson

1958 - Boris Pasternak

1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon

1966 - Nelly Sachs

1976 - Saul Bellow

1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer

1981 - Elias Canetti

1987 - Joseph Brodsky

1991 - Nadine Gordimer

2002 - Imre Kertesz

World Peace

1911 - Alfred Fried

1911 - Tobias Asser

1968 - Rene Cassin

1973 - Henry Kissinger

1978 - Menachem Begin

1986 - Elie Wiesel

1994 - Shimon Peres

1994 - Yitzhak Rabin

1995 - Joseph Rotblat

Chemistry

1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer

1906 - Henri Moissan

1910 - Otto Wallach

1915 - Richard Willstaetter

1918 - Fritz Haber

1943 - George Charles de Hevesy

1961 - Melvin Calvin

1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz

1972 - William Howard Stein

1972 - C.B. Anfinsen

1977 - Ilya Prigogine

1979 - Herbert Charles Brown

1980 - Paul Berg

1980 - Walter Gilbert

1981 - Ronald Hoffmann

1982 - Aaron Klug

1985 - Herbert A. Hauptman

1985 - Jerome Karle

1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach

1988 - Robert Huber

1989 - Sidney Altman

1992 - Rudolph Marcus

1998 - Walter Kohn

2000 - Alan J. Heeger

2004 - Irwin Rose

2004 - Avram Hershko

2004 - Aaron Ciechanover

Economics

1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson

1971 - Simon Kuznets

1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow

1973 - Wassily Leontief

1975 - Leonid Kantorovich

1976 - Milton Friedman

1978 - Herbert A. Simon

1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein

1985 - Franco Modigliani

1987 - Robert M. Solow

1990 - Harry Markowitz

1990 - Merton Miller

1992 - Gary Becker

1993 - Rober Fogel

1994 - John Harsanyi

1994 - Reinhard Selten

1997 - Robert Merton

1997 - Myron Scholes

2001 - George Akerlof

2001 - Joseph Stiglitz

2002 - Daniel Kahneman

2005 - Robert (Israel) Aumann

Medicine

1908 - Elie Metchnikoff

1908 - Paul Erlich

1914 - Robert Barany

1922 - Otto Meyerhof

1930 - Karl Landsteiner

1931 - Otto Warburg

1936 - Otto Loewi

1944 - Joseph Erlanger

1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser

1945 - Ernst Boris Chain

1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller

1950 - Tadeus Reichstein

1952 - Selman Abraham Waksman

1953 - Hans Krebs

1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann

1958 - Joshua Lederberg

1959 - Arthur Kornberg

1964 - Konrad Bloch

1965 - Francois Jacob

1965 - Andre Lwoff

1967 - George Wald

1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg

1969 - Salvador Luria

1970 - Julius Axelrod

1970 - Sir Bernard Katz

1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman

1975 - David Baltimore

1975 - Howard Martin Temin

1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg

1977 - Rosalyn Sussman Yalow

1977 - Andrew V. Schally

1978 - Daniel Nathans

1980 - Baruj Benacerraf

1984 - Cesar Milstein

1985 - Michael Stuart Brown

1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein

1986 - Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]

1988 - Gertrude Elion

1989 - Harold Varmus

1991 - Erwin Neher

1991 - Bert Sakmann

1993 - Richard J. Roberts

1993 - Phillip Sharp

1994 - Alfred Gilman

1994 - Martin Rodbell

1995 - Edward B. Lewis

1997 - Stanley B. Prusiner

1998 - Robert F. Furchgott

2000 - Eric R. Kandel

2002 - Sydney Brenner

2002 - Robert H. Horvitz

Physics

1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson

1908 - Gabriel Lippmann

1921 - Albert Einstein

1922 - Niels Bohr

1925 - James Franck

1925 - Gustav Hertz

1943 - Gustav Stern

1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi

1945 - Wolfgang Pauli

1952 - Felix Bloch

1954 - Max Born

1958 - Igor Tamm

1958 - Il'ja Mikhailovich

1958 - Igor Yevgenyevich

1959 - Emilio Segre

1960 - Donald A. Glaser

1961 - Robert Hofstadter

1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau

1963 - Eugene P. Wigner

1965 - Richard Phillips Feynman

1965 - Julian Schwinger

1967 - Hans Albrecht Bethe

1969 - Murray Gell-Mann

1971 - Dennis Gabor

1972 - Leon N. Cooper

1973 - Brian David Josephson

1975 - Benjamin Mottleson

1976 - Burton Richter

1978 - Arno Allan Penzias

1978 - Peter L Kapitza

1979 - Stephen Weinberg

1979 - Sheldon Glashow

1988 - Leon Lederman

1988 - Melvin Schwartz

1988 - Jack Steinberger

1990 - Jerome Friedman

1992 - Georges Charpak

1995 - Martin Perl

1995 - Frederick Reines

1996 - David M. Lee

1996 - Douglas D. Osheroff

1997 - Claude Cohen-Tannoudji

2000 - Zhores I. Alferov

2003 - Vitaly Ginsburg

2003 - Alexei Abrikosov

After reviewing this list, can you supply a reason for the large discrepancy between the Arab/Islamic population's contribution to the world body and that of the Jew? There are 165 Jews listed as opposed to 6 from the Arab side.

http://www.jewishmag.co.il/99mag/nobel/nobel.htm

Great post P.

Keep in mind though that these individuals primarily benefited from free market capitalism and democracy. That they were christian or jewish is of significantly less importance. Conversely, the muslims are without a doubt victims of their religion.

[Cap'n Cat]

It's only because "The Man" has kep the Muslim man down for 10 centuries.

We imprisoned their people and stole their wealth for at least the last 100 years. Now, they begin to rise up, as we did in the late 1700's, and, all of a sudden they're the assholes?

As with the Twin Towers disasters, guys, we are reaping what we have sowed.

[mrklean]

Thank you Muslims for teaching Europe basic things like Bathing every day, Advance Math, Architecture, Engineering, Medicine and Art..............................lol

[Grizalltheway]

Thank you Muslims for teaching Europe basic things like Bathing every day, Advance Math, Architecture, Engineering, Medicine and Art..............................lol

Don't forget our numerical system...minor detail, though.

[Cap'n Cat]

No Conk bigots care to comment on Muslim contributions to world culture?

[Gil Dobie]

Thank you Muslims for teaching Europe basic things like Bathing every day, Advance Math, Architecture, Engineering, Medicine and Art..............................lol

Don't forget our numerical system...minor detail, though.

I thought the Hindu/Arabic system predated Mohammad, but that's just a minor detail. Civilization has benefitted from many arabic inventions etc. I have worked with many muslims, all of them nicer than the atheist hate-mongers, and hypocritical christians.

[native]

No Conk bigots care to comment on Muslim contributions to world culture?

Many of the muslim contributions were not original, cap, but ancient Greek and Roman ideas preserved by muslims after the series of catastrophic fires in the Great Library of Alexandria.

And yes, Gil, I have no problem with individual muslim friends. I DO have big problems with the political violence and authoritarianism inherent in the religion.

[blueballs]

Ain't too many- in fact there aren't any- Muslims in the Blueballs neighborhood... I wracked my brain and I can't truly say I know even one and I made it half a century just fine that way.

Muslims have contributed many things to world culture... like 9/11, the Fort Hood killings, stoning women who cheat on their husbands, making their hoes cover their faces (that could be a good thing- I also wonder if Muslim women shave their pussies, I kind of doubt it), car bombs, lopping off the domes of journalists, jihad, honor killings (if a daughter is attracted to a christian), night club bombings, IED's, roadside bombs, lashing women in public, fatwas, sharia law, etc.etc.etc.

And how could we possibly omit the many wonderful muslim world leaders like the iran weird beards, Gadaffi, Arafat, Idi Amin, Saddam Hussein, the taliban, bin laden, etc etc etc?

No comprehensive list of the contributions of muslims would be complete if we left out the contributions of Hamas, al qaeda, the al aqsa martyrs brigade, al qaeda in iraq, Ansar al islam, Islamic Jihad, hezbollah, mujihadeen, the plo, etc etc etc.

Yup, those muslims are some really cool folks!

[Cap'n Cat]

[mrklean]

Ain't too many- in fact there aren't any- Muslims in the Blueballs neighborhood... I wracked my brain and I can't truly say I know even one and I made it half a century just fine that way.

Muslims have contributed many things to world culture... like 9/11, the Fort Hood killings, stoning women who cheat on their husbands, making their hoes cover their faces (that could be a good thing- I also wonder if Muslim women shave their pussies, I kind of doubt it), car bombs, lopping off the domes of journalists, jihad, honor killings (if a daughter is attracted to a christian), night club bombings, IED's, roadside bombs, lashing women in public, fatwas, sharia law, etc.etc.etc.

And how could we possibly omit the many wonderful muslim world leaders like the iran weird beards, Gadaffi, Arafat, Idi Amin, Saddam Hussein, the taliban, bin laden, etc etc etc?

No comprehensive list of the contributions of muslims would be complete if we left out the contributions of Hamas, al qaeda, the al aqsa martyrs brigade, al qaeda in iraq, Ansar al islam, Islamic Jihad, hezbollah, mujihadeen, the plo, etc etc etc.


Just like what happened in this country. Don't get too holy Dude!
Yup, those Muslims are some really cool folks!

What Christian America has done:

1. Slavery
2. Genocide of the Native American
3. Broken agreements with said American
4. Theft of land from said American
5. Jim Crow Laws
6. Broken Agreements with newly freed Slaves.
7. Unequal Protection under the law
6. Illegal Lynchings of Black Military Veterans

Yeah, this is real Christian Love at its Best

[native]

Ain't too many- in fact there aren't any- Muslims in the Blueballs neighborhood... I wracked my brain and I can't truly say I know even one and I made it half a century just fine that way.

Muslims have contributed many things to world culture... like 9/11, the Fort Hood killings, stoning women who cheat on their husbands, making their hoes cover their faces (that could be a good thing- I also wonder if Muslim women shave their pussies, I kind of doubt it), car bombs, lopping off the domes of journalists, jihad, honor killings (if a daughter is attracted to a christian), night club bombings, IED's, roadside bombs, lashing women in public, fatwas, sharia law, etc.etc.etc.

And how could we possibly omit the many wonderful muslim world leaders like the iran weird beards, Gadaffi, Arafat, Idi Amin, Saddam Hussein, the taliban, bin laden, etc etc etc?

No comprehensive list of the contributions of muslims would be complete if we left out the contributions of Hamas, al qaeda, the al aqsa martyrs brigade, al qaeda in iraq, Ansar al islam, Islamic Jihad, hezbollah, mujihadeen, the plo, etc etc etc.


Just like what happened in this country. Don't get too holy Dude!
Yup, those Muslims are some really cool folks!

What Christian America has done:

1. Slavery
2. Genocide of the Native American
3. Broken agreements with said American
4. Theft of land from said American
5. Jim Crow Laws
6. Broken Agreements with newly freed Slaves.
7. Unequal Protection under the law
6. Illegal Lynchings of Black Military Veterans

Yeah, this is real Christian Love at its Best

The Federalists/Whigs/Republicans fought against these abuses by Andrew Jackson's Democrats, and eventually succeeded in the quest. There is nio such self-correction in muslim history.

Your points are well taken, klean. It's highly ironic, isn't it, that despite such abuses the average black American is much better off than the average black African, who has suffered even worse abuses at the hands of his own black countrymen, especially at the hands of his own black African MUSLIM countrymen, including the sale of black Africans into slavery by African muslim slave traders.

[mrklean]

What Christian America has done:

1. Slavery
2. Genocide of the Native American
3. Broken agreements with said American
4. Theft of land from said American
5. Jim Crow Laws
6. Broken Agreements with newly freed Slaves.
7. Unequal Protection under the law
6. Illegal Lynchings of Black Military Veterans

Yeah, this is real Christian Love at its Best

The Federalists/Whigs/Republicans fought against these abuses by Andrew Jackson's Democrats, and eventually succeeded in the quest. There is nio such self-correction in muslim history.

Your points are well taken, klean. It's highly ironic, isn't it, that despite such abuses the average black American is much better off than the average black African, who has suffered even worse abuses at the hands of his own black countrymen, especially at the hands of his own black African MUSLIM countrymen, including the sale of black Africans into slavery by African muslim slave traders.

you are 100% correct. But I was making an example that Evey religion has a turning point. Its time for Islam to make their turn just like Christianity did. I hope its the right turn. I know too many good Muslims who are sick an tired of being labeled a mad Bomber!!

[Grizo406]

[D1B]

No Conk bigots care to comment on Muslim contributions to world culture?

Many of the muslim contributions were not original, cap, but ancient Greek and Roman ideas preserved by muslims after the series of catastrophic fires in the Great Library of Alexandria.

And yes, Gil, I have no problem with individual muslim friends. I DO have big problems with the political violence and authoritarianism inherent in the religion.

Native, the bible is way worse than the Koran. More violent, more directive from god to kill non believer, more genocide, more racism, more murder, more rape....

We are not chopping off people's heads off or burning them alive or hunting them down and murdering whole villages - like we used to - today primarily because of one thing - capitalism.

MOF, Liar Joe's new hero Philip Jenkins wrote an entire book about this very subject....

Much to my surprise, the Islamic scriptures in the Quran were actually far less bloody and less violent than those in the Bible," Jenkins says.

Jenkins is a professor at Penn State University and author of two books dealing with the issue: the recently published Jesus Wars, and Dark Passages , which has not been published but is already drawing controversy.


Much to my surprise, the Islamic scriptures in the Quran were actually far less bloody and less violent than those in the Bible.


- Philip Jenkins, author of 'Jesus Wars'
Violence in the Quran, he and others say, is largely a defense against attack.

"By the standards of the time, which is the 7th century A.D., the laws of war that are laid down by the Quran are actually reasonably humane," he says. "Then we turn to the Bible, and we actually find something that is for many people a real surprise. There is a specific kind of warfare laid down in the Bible which we can only call genocide."

It is called herem, and it means total annihilation. Consider the Book of 1 Samuel, when God instructs King Saul to attack the Amalekites: "And utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them," God says through the prophet Samuel. "But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."

When Saul failed to do that, God took away his kingdom.

"In other words," Jenkins says, "Saul has committed a dreadful sin by failing to complete genocide. And that passage echoes through Christian history. It is often used, for example, in American stories of the confrontation with Indians — not just is it legitimate to kill Indians, but you are violating God's law if you do not."

Hans Kunged again....

[DJH]

lmao, grizo.

[native]

... Native, the bible is way worse than the Koran. More violent, more directive from god to kill non believer, more genocide, more racism, more murder, more rape....

I trust your scholarship less than I trust my teenager with a case of beer, D!

Even if we assume the Bible to be more violent than the Koran, for thirteen centuries the muslim religion itself has consistently proven far more inherently and intractibly violent and evil, and thus far not subject to successful reformation.

You are not likely to admit it, but most of your best "progressive" ideas originated in the New Testament and the Reformation, D. Not that you lefties understand the Gospels, just that most of your good ideas, no matter how abused and misunderstood compared to the original, came from Christianity.

[D1B]

... Native, the bible is way worse than the Koran. More violent, more directive from god to kill non believer, more genocide, more racism, more murder, more rape....

I trust your scholarship less than I trust my teenager with a case of beer, D!

Even if we assume the Bible to be more violent than the Koran, for thirteen centuries the muslim religion itself has consistently proven far more inherently and intractibly violent and evil, and thus far not subject to successful reformation.

You are not likely to admit it, but most of your best "progressive" ideas originated in the New Testament and the Reformation, D. Not that you lefties understand the Gospels, just that most of your good ideas, no matter how abused and misunderstood compared to the original, came from Christianity.

How bout some examples Native? Just give me 3 original christian "ideas" that we progressives hold dear.

You're missing the point too. I'll slow it down for you. Go back even a few hundred years ago and you'll see christians acting like modern day muslims. Hell, the entire "Dark Ages" was an era of uparalleled suffering and brutality, much of which was directed at non believers - specifically muslims - and was dominated by the catholic church. The crusades, the inquisitions, shit, the modern world wars were started by christian nations.

The anti semitism you see in the muslim world was nothing compared to the hatred of jews, fueled by catholocism and christianity in the western world. Let me know if a muslim nation ever killed 6 million jews in a few years.

Anyway, capitalism and rise of merchant and leisure class is what tamed christianity, not the new testament. It was the heroic efforts of heretics, atheists, founding fathers, secularists, women, minorities and other oppressed by the church that tamed christianity. While there are some good, but absolutely unoriginal, ideas in the NT, it has failed christians for almost 2000 years.

[CID1990]

I trust your scholarship less than I trust my teenager with a case of beer, D!

Even if we assume the Bible to be more violent than the Koran, for thirteen centuries the muslim religion itself has consistently proven far more inherently and intractibly violent and evil, and thus far not subject to successful reformation.

You are not likely to admit it, but most of your best "progressive" ideas originated in the New Testament and the Reformation, D. Not that you lefties understand the Gospels, just that most of your good ideas, no matter how abused and misunderstood compared to the original, came from Christianity.

How bout some examples Native? Just give me 3 original christian "ideas" that we progressives hold dear.

You're missing the point too. I'll slow it down for you. Go back even a few hundred years ago and you'll see christians acting like modern day muslims. Hell, the entire "Dark Ages" was an era of uparalleled suffering and brutality, much of which was directed at non believers - specifically muslims - and was dominated by the catholic church. The crusades, the inquisitions, ****, the modern world wars were started by christian nations.

The anti semitism you see in the muslim world was nothing compared to the hatred of jews, fueled by catholocism and christianity in the western world. Let me know if a muslim nation ever killed 6 million jews in a few years.

Anyway, capitalism and rise of merchant and leisure class is what tamed christianity, not the new testament. It was the heroic efforts of heretics, atheists, founding fathers, secularists, women, minorities and other oppressed by the church that tamed christianity. While there are some good, but absolutely unoriginal, ideas in the NT, it has failed christians for almost 2000 years.

Seeing since Islam began in Saudi Arabia and within just a couple hundred years it had all of north Africa, the MIddle East, the Balkans, all of what would become the Ottoman Empire and half of Spain under the sword, I'd say the Crusades saved most of Europe by focusing the Islamic spread back in on itself as a defensive measure.

But then what do I know? I just read a lot of history.