Carlos Gonzalez

[ToTheLeft]

And it's a valid point that CarGo could improve, but his numbers this year are inflated, and judging him based on that is setting yourself up for disappointment down the road. That's what many Rays fans (including myself) did with Zobrist this year.

[ToTheLeft]

As a stathead more qualified than myself pointed out...

"Well as a team you're looking at a .382 wOBA at home with .299 on the road as a team this year."

in reference to the Rockies. Clenzy's point ringing true even more. (wOBA is weighted on base average, google it for more info).

The Rockies have a good team with good players, but to base any kind of statistical comparison based off of their numbers, your need to consider the inflation from their park.

I'm not hating on you, Rockies fans. I like the Rockies a lot, Todd Helton is/was one of my favorite players and I am partial to Colorado sports teams anyways (for whatever reason). Just giving the other side to the argument.

I would take Carlos Gonzalez ahead of BJ Upton today if you gave me the option, and have him bat 3rd with Crawford ahead of him and Longoria behind him. And I'd take Tulo and put him at short and win a few World Championships. Ubaldo replacing James Shields wouldn't be a bad trade off, either.

[Gil Dobie]

Name one other guy that did what Gonzalez is doing in his first full season in the big leagues and then, barring injury, drugs, etc., never repeated it...I'll wait.

Without doing much research Walt Dropo, Jimmie Hall, and Pete Reiser come to mind.

[Jibjab]

It's people like you that run the Cubs and Mets. It's people like me that run the Rays. Stats play a huge role in this game, and they can tell you more than you can see by watching Fowler jump up a wall and catch a baseball and assume he's a good fielder.

Fowler's defense is below replacement level. Robbing a couple HR's means nothing if you can't catch and properly throw the balls you're supposed to be able to get to. Fowler has the same problem Upton does, they're athletic but they're not good fielders. And that's the difference. Just because you're fast doesn't make you a good fielder.

And Choo is an amazing defender, as is Gardner. Both are WAYYYYY ahead of CarGo, Fowler, or Smith. Miles ahead.

You can ignore the numbers all you want, but they prove you wrong. And I have stepped foot on and played on a baseball field. And that's such a terrible argument to resort to that I'm going to assume you've given up on arguing facts.

Fowler's range is so bad that he allows more runs than the average CF because of his poor range and arm. So he might be fast, but he doesn't cover CF the way he should.

Fowler is 2 runs under average in terms of his range. CarGo is 1.5 runs under average. Carl Crawford is 18 runs above it.

Ignore it all you like, but Carl Crawford's defense has prevented 20 runs that Dexter Fowler/Carlos Gonzalez would have allowed were he playing the same position in the same games. That's probably 3-5 wins, from ONE PLAYER's defense.

You can run off to your beer league softball game and tell everyone how fast you think CarGo and Fowler are and how good of a player they are and be "on a baseball field" and have an "eye for baseball". I'll stick to facts.

Here's something for you http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_ ... order/true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fowlers 4th amongst cf in the majors for field percentage. Whats that about range??

Your boy Crawford is at .993

Fowler at .995 and plays a tougher position, as well as one of the bigger outfields in the majors.

Hardly replacement player, whatever the fuck that means.

Lol Choo is at .985

[ToTheLeft]

Here's something for you http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_ ... order/true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fowlers 4th amongst cf in the majors for field percentage. Whats that about range??

Your boy Crawford is at .993

Fowler at .995 and plays a tougher position, as well as one of the bigger outfields in the majors.

Hardly replacement player, whatever the fuck that means.

Lol Choo is at .985

You don't get an error for a ball that you SHOULD have got to that you just don't get to. That's what UZR measures. But you probably can't read the formula to figure it out, so I can understand you basing it on FPCT.

And he is a replacement level player right now. His defense sucks and his offense is average. He could get better but right now he's really nothing special.

But base it all of your kiddie stats. Like I said, it's people like you that run teams that pay a ton of money and don't get results.

[Jibjab]

Here's something for you http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_ ... order/true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fowlers 4th amongst cf in the majors for field percentage. Whats that about range??

Your boy Crawford is at .993

Fowler at .995 and plays a tougher position, as well as one of the bigger outfields in the majors.

Hardly replacement player, whatever the **** that means.

Lol Choo is at .985

You don't get an error for a ball that you SHOULD have got to that you just don't get to. That's what UZR measures. But you probably can't read the formula to figure it out, so I can understand you basing it on FPCT.

And he is a replacement level player right now. His defense sucks and his offense is average. He could get better but right now he's really nothing special.

But base it all of your kiddie stats. Like I said, it's people like you that run teams that pay a ton of money and don't get results.

Now they're kiddie stats? I proved you wrong, you don't know shit about baseball. Point being is stats are skewed and can be misleading. That's people that pay too much to are the people that have no idea what they're talking about, ya they're good at their fantasy leagues. Nice try kiddo, better luck next time.

[ToTheLeft]

You don't get an error for a ball that you SHOULD have got to that you just don't get to. That's what UZR measures. But you probably can't read the formula to figure it out, so I can understand you basing it on FPCT.

And he is a replacement level player right now. His defense sucks and his offense is average. He could get better but right now he's really nothing special.

But base it all of your kiddie stats. Like I said, it's people like you that run teams that pay a ton of money and don't get results.

Now they're kiddie stats? I proved you wrong, you don't know shit about baseball. Point being is stats are skewed and can be misleading. That's people that pay too much to are the people that have no idea what they're talking about, ya they're good at their fantasy leagues. Nice try kiddo, better luck next time.

You're ridiculously ignorant. Baseball is a sport with so many stats available that tell you almost anything you need to know about a player, at least in the context we're talking about. Fowler isn't a good defender. He's just not. You can pretend like he is and talk big and bad, but that doesn't change anything.

But I guess you "win" because you said so. Anyone who knows baseball would see that you're not bringing anything to the table, just using your internet cool guy bully tactics to pretend like you "won". I'm sure you fall into all the traps that most ignorant baseball fans do, but that's fine. But "have you watched him? I bet you never played baseball" isn't an argument, it's you avoiding the debate because you don't know jack about how to evaluate talent in baseball. I'm not an expert but it feels good to know I'm miles ahead of you.

[clenz]

Fielding percentage is a terrible indicator of how good a player is unless that player is an infielder.

[Jibjab]

Now they're kiddie stats? I proved you wrong, you don't know **** about baseball. Point being is stats are skewed and can be misleading. That's people that pay too much to are the people that have no idea what they're talking about, ya they're good at their fantasy leagues. Nice try kiddo, better luck next time.

You're ridiculously ignorant. Baseball is a sport with so many stats available that tell you almost anything you need to know about a player, at least in the context we're talking about. Fowler isn't a good defender. He's just not. You can pretend like he is and talk big and bad, but that doesn't change anything.

But I guess you "win" because you said so. Anyone who knows baseball would see that you're not bringing anything to the table, just using your internet cool guy bully tactics to pretend like you "won". I'm sure you fall into all the traps that most ignorant baseball fans do, but that's fine. But "have you watched him? I bet you never played baseball" isn't an argument, it's you avoiding the debate because you don't know jack about how to evaluate talent in baseball. I'm not an expert but it feels good to know I'm miles ahead of you.

I get it your a stats guy, you probably jack off to that stuff every night, I understand that. But me, if you haven't figured it out, I'm not big on stats. Are they helpful? Sure, but they only make players look good on paper. Even Tony Gwynn said that batting avg is one of the most overrated stats in baseball, and sometimes its true. That was the knock on Bonds that year about almost batting 400, because he got walked a bunch of times. It seems to me a lot of new stats have been coming up because of this fantasy league stuff. If you want to calculate how big of a dump one of these ball players take next time he take a shit, that's on you.

Stats are skewed and can mislead at times. When major league teams draft players, they don't draft on their stats alone in high school, juco or college. Because that's where real inflation comes in, because not every one plays at the same level of competition. They draft on potential from someone actually watching them, not based off some meaning less minuscule stat. Stats don't always paint accurate pictures of how good players are or can be.

I know Cargo and Fowler are good OFs, and will get better over time. I could give a fuck less what anybody else says. If you want to formulate a stat that can figure out how big each players dicks are I'll leave that up to you because I'm sure you'll be more interested in it then me.

[ToTheLeft]

Fielding percentage is a terrible indicator of how good a player is unless that player is an infielder.

Thank you. Even then it's not a good stat, but apparently I love cock if I decide to talk about stats, so enough about that.

And GM's don't use stats.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That's rich. I'll call up the GM that wins the World Series and ask him if he uses stats of if he just watches the ESPN highlights. "Ooh, there's a fast outfielder who can jump up the fence and catch a ball! Sign him now!"

[Jibjab]

Fielding percentage is a terrible indicator of how good a player is unless that player is an infielder.

Thank you. Even then it's not a good stat, but apparently I love cock if I decide to talk about stats, so enough about that.

And GM's don't use stats.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That's rich. I'll call up the GM that wins the World Series and ask him if he uses stats of if he just watches the ESPN highlights. "Ooh, there's a fast outfielder who can jump up the fence and catch a ball! Sign him now!"

Actually they'd probably like somebody like that. Thanks for proven my point.

[clenz]

Thank you. Even then it's not a good stat, but apparently I love cock if I decide to talk about stats, so enough about that.

And GM's don't use stats.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That's rich. I'll call up the GM that wins the World Series and ask him if he uses stats of if he just watches the ESPN highlights. "Ooh, there's a fast outfielder who can jump up the fence and catch a ball! Sign him now!"

Actually they'd probably like somebody like that. Thanks for proven my point.

Yep...teams are lining up to sign Gary Mathews Jr.

[AZGrizFan]

Do any players outside Colorado get their home/away splits micro anaylzed like Rockies players do?

[ToTheLeft]

Do any players outside Colorado get their home/away splits micro anaylzed like Rockies players do?

Why shouldn't they? The difference is remarkable. The wOBA of Rockies players home and away is almost .100 different. That's a huge swing.

[ToTheLeft]

Actually they'd probably like somebody like that. Thanks for proven my point.

Yep...teams are lining up to sign Gary Mathews Jr.

Yeah, and I'd rather have DeWayne Wise in CF than Josh Hamilton.

In fact, just give me a team full of black guys, they're athletic and can jump really high. I want Darelle Revis at SS and LeBron James at 1B. I'll be unstoppable!