Interesting Cy Young Race article

[BlueHen86]

In the biggest game of the year so far Price and the Rays best Sabathia and the Yankees.
Sabathia allows 7 runs in 5.1 innings.

Also, Felix Hernandez pitches 8 innings of 2 hit ball, but loses 1-0 and sees his W-L record fall to 12-12 (on a 58-94 team).

My non-existent Cy Young vote still goes top Hernandez, although Price is also a good choice.

[AZGrizFan]

In the biggest game of the year so far Price and the Rays best Sabathia and the Yankees.
Sabathia allows 7 runs in 5.1 innings.

Also, Felix Hernandez pitches 8 innings of 2 hit ball, but loses 1-0 and sees his W-L record fall to 12-12 (on a 58-94 team).

My non-existent Cy Young vote still goes top Hernandez, although Price is also a good choice.

In any vote, Sabathia is a distant third. Hernandez can't control the fact that the Mariners absolutely BLOW.

[BlueHen86]

In the biggest game of the year so far Price and the Rays best Sabathia and the Yankees.
Sabathia allows 7 runs in 5.1 innings.

Also, Felix Hernandez pitches 8 innings of 2 hit ball, but loses 1-0 and sees his W-L record fall to 12-12 (on a 58-94 team).

My non-existent Cy Young vote still goes top Hernandez, although Price is also a good choice.

In any vote, Sabathia is a distant third. Hernandez can't control the fact that the Mariners absolutely BLOW.

Yup. The Mariners have by far the worst offense in baseball. They have scored 481 runs, the next lowest total is the Pirates with 537. The Yankees have scored 813 runs.

Hernandez has easily been the best pitcher in baseball this year.

[Gil Dobie]

Hernandez is a great pitcher, but he is not pitching very well against the top teams in his division where there is more pressure to win. When the Red Sox play the Yankees, Twins vs White Sox, I'm sure pitchers on both teams feel more pressure. Hernandez is 1-3 vs Texas with 10 walks, 5.06 era, 5 hr's, 0-3 vs the Angels with 13 walks, 4.13 era and 5 HR's. That's 6 of his 12 losses right there and 10 of the 16 home runs he's given up. He's 1-0 vs Oakland with 2.61 era. Seattle's offense may be non-existant, but they don't have a chance in their own division, the weakest of the 3 in the AL. Statistically, Hernandez wins, but adding in the pressures of a pennant drive I would pick Price or Sabbathia.

[DSUrocks07]

King Felix SHOULD get it, based on stats. But that wins total will be hard to overcome. If he had won last night and should have two more starts after this it'll be no question. But right now I would give it to Price, CC is a distant third IMO.

[AZGrizFan]

Hernandez is a great pitcher, but he is not pitching very well against the top teams in his division where there is more pressure to win. When the Red Sox play the Yankees, Twins vs White Sox, I'm sure pitchers on both teams feel more pressure. Hernandez is 1-3 vs Texas with 10 walks, 5.06 era, 5 hr's, 0-3 vs the Angels with 13 walks, 4.13 era and 5 HR's. That's 6 of his 12 losses right there and 10 of the 16 home runs he's given up. He's 1-0 vs Oakland with 2.61 era. Seattle's offense may be non-existant, but they don't have a chance in their own division, the weakest of the 3 in the AL. Statistically, Hernandez wins, but adding in the pressures of a pennant drive I would pick Price or Sabbathia.

Good points, Gil. The unbalanced schedule certainly does play a role in a pitcher's stats.....given THAT argument, my vote would probably switch to Price.

[UNHWildCats]

Sabathia has 10 wins against Seattle, Kansas City and Baltimore.

Felix is 3-0 vs Yankees with 0.35 ERA.

[Gil Dobie]

Sabathia has 10 wins against Seattle, Kansas City and Baltimore.

Felix is 3-0 vs Yankees with 0.35 ERA.

Felix can be classified as a "Yankee Killer".

[GannonFan]

Funny that you say Sabathia gets helped most by his team ... Without him taking the ball in every post-season series last year, the Yankees don't win the World Series.

Uh, didn't the Yankees lose both of Sabathia's starts in the World Series last year?

[GannonFan]

Sabathia has 10 wins against Seattle, Kansas City and Baltimore.

Felix is 3-0 vs Yankees with 0.35 ERA.

And Felix is 5-0 against the AL East this year with a 0.5 something ERA. I shudder to think how dominant he would be if he pitched more against the AL East. Heck, Sabbathia doesn't even have to pitch against the Yanks and he doesn't come close to those numbers.

[BlueHen86]

Hernandez is a great pitcher, but he is not pitching very well against the top teams in his division where there is more pressure to win. When the Red Sox play the Yankees, Twins vs White Sox, I'm sure pitchers on both teams feel more pressure. Hernandez is 1-3 vs Texas with 10 walks, 5.06 era, 5 hr's, 0-3 vs the Angels with 13 walks, 4.13 era and 5 HR's. That's 6 of his 12 losses right there and 10 of the 16 home runs he's given up. He's 1-0 vs Oakland with 2.61 era. Seattle's offense may be non-existant, but they don't have a chance in their own division, the weakest of the 3 in the AL. Statistically, Hernandez wins, but adding in the pressures of a pennant drive I would pick Price or Sabbathia.

Based on your last comment I would have to go with Price. The last two times he faced the Yankees the Rays won, Sabathia was the Yankee pitcher in both of those starts.

[ToTheLeft]

Just heard some additional stats comparing Hernandez & CC:

Hernandez has had 15 starts where the Mariners scored 2 or less runs. CC has had 7.
Hernandez has had 7 starts where the Mariners have scored 5 or more runs. CC has had 20.
Hernandez has 50+ more strikeouts than Price and 40+ more than CC

The ONLY meaningful statistic Hernandez isn't blowing away the competition in (and the only statistic out of the pitcher's control) is Wins.

I say Hernandez should win it.

Exactly. And I'm a Rays fan, but I can't justify DP over Felix. He's been the most outstanding pitcher in the AL this season.

[AZGrizFan]

Sabathia has 10 wins against Seattle, Kansas City and Baltimore.

Felix is 3-0 vs Yankees with 0.35 ERA.

And Felix is 5-0 against the AL East this year with a 0.5 something ERA. I shudder to think how dominant he would be if he pitched more against the AL East. Heck, Sabbathia doesn't even have to pitch against the Yanks and he doesn't come close to those numbers.

OK. My vote is back with Felix.

[ToTheLeft]

And Felix is 5-0 against the AL East this year with a 0.5 something ERA. I shudder to think how dominant he would be if he pitched more against the AL East. Heck, Sabbathia doesn't even have to pitch against the Yanks and he doesn't come close to those numbers.

OK. My vote is back with Felix.

Not to mention, Felix is last in run support per 9 innings pitched in the AL. He would be a 22+ game winner on the Rays or Yankees. He's the obvious choice. I'd say Price is second, and CC 3rd. CC's innings pitched make some of his numbers look bigger, but if you use average stats rather than total stats, Price is better in most of them.

[AZGrizFan]

OK. My vote is back with Felix.

Not to mention, Felix is last in run support per 9 innings pitched in the AL. He would be a 22+ game winner on the Rays or Yankees. He's the obvious choice. I'd say Price is second, and CC 3rd. CC's innings pitched make some of his numbers look bigger, but if you use average stats rather than total stats, Price is better in most of them.

What's amazing about Price is he's amassed his #'s in 4 fewer starts.

[UNHWildCats]

OK. My vote is back with Felix.

Not to mention, Felix is last in run support per 9 innings pitched in the AL. He would be a 22+ game winner on the Rays or Yankees. He's the obvious choice. I'd say Price is second, and CC 3rd. CC's innings pitched make some of his numbers look bigger, but if you use average stats rather than total stats, Price is better in most of them.

hes so good, but the Seattle offense is soo historically bad.... Felix may have won 20 games with any of the other 29 teams in baseball this year.

[ToTheLeft]

Not to mention, Felix is last in run support per 9 innings pitched in the AL. He would be a 22+ game winner on the Rays or Yankees. He's the obvious choice. I'd say Price is second, and CC 3rd. CC's innings pitched make some of his numbers look bigger, but if you use average stats rather than total stats, Price is better in most of them.

What's amazing about Price is he's amassed his #'s in 4 fewer starts.

Unlike the Yankees, the Rays have a full, reliable pitching staff. They don't need to skip starts to get back to Price.

[UNHWildCats]

Not to mention, Felix is last in run support per 9 innings pitched in the AL. He would be a 22+ game winner on the Rays or Yankees. He's the obvious choice. I'd say Price is second, and CC 3rd. CC's innings pitched make some of his numbers look bigger, but if you use average stats rather than total stats, Price is better in most of them.

What's amazing about Price is he's amassed his #'s in 4 fewer starts.

Price gotten 3 more starts and assume his season winning % stood he is virtually identical to CC accept Price would have a half run lower ERA and a 20 point lower BAA... everything else would be virtually identical... this my friends should eliminate CC from the discussion. Dont want a 12-12 Cy Young? Fine then Price should get it with no discussions.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

One thing that does favor Sabbatia, however, is the statistical "park factor" which measures to what extent different ball parks favor the pitcher vs. the hitter. Tropicana Field in St. Pete and Safeco Field are the two parks that most favor the pitcher while Yankee Stadium is, statistically, the second best hitter's park in all of baseball.

(click on the image for a better view)



BTW, park factor is calculated as such: ((homeRS + homeRA)/(homeG)) / ((roadRS + roadRA)/(roadG))

[BlueHen86]

What's amazing about Price is he's amassed his #'s in 4 fewer starts.

Price gotten 3 more starts and assume his season winning % stood he is virtually identical to CC accept Price would have a half run lower ERA and a 20 point lower BAA... everything else would be virtually identical... this my friends should eliminate CC from the discussion. Dont want a 12-12 Cy Young? Fine then Price should get it with no discussions.

Which is the way I see it. It should be a two man race between Price and Hernandez. I think Price will win because voters will shy away from Hernandez's 12-12 record.

[JoltinJoe]

At this point, after last night, I'd be more inclined to go with Price over Sabathia -- although the ump totally screwed Sabathia with the shrinking strike zone in the 6th inning.

He really should have been out of that inning with one run being scored. Those back-to-back walks that killed him: each of those should have been Ks looking.

[ToTheLeft]

At this point, after last night, I'd be more inclined to go with Price over Sabathia -- although the ump totally screwed Sabathia with the shrinking strike zone in the 6th inning.

He really should have been out of that inning with one run being scored. Those back-to-back walks that killed him: each of those should have been Ks looking.

Oh you've GOT to be kidding me. I could go back and show PitchFX data from the whole season that shows the garbage strike zones for every team in this league. It's the same "human element" that MLB loves and refuses to adopt more replay because of. No sympathy here, and I doubt other fans here who see strikes called as balls and balls called as strikes for their team will feel for you at all.

In fact, all season I've seen pitches over the chalk of the batter's box called in favor of the Yanks. It goes both ways.

[JoltinJoe]

At this point, after last night, I'd be more inclined to go with Price over Sabathia -- although the ump totally screwed Sabathia with the shrinking strike zone in the 6th inning.

He really should have been out of that inning with one run being scored. Those back-to-back walks that killed him: each of those should have been Ks looking.

Oh you've GOT to be kidding me. I could go back and show PitchFX data from the whole season that shows the garbage strike zones for every team in this league. It's the same "human element" that MLB loves and refuses to adopt more replay because of. No sympathy here, and I doubt other fans here who see strikes called as balls and balls called as strikes for their team will feel for you at all.

In fact, all season I've seen pitches over the chalk of the batter's box called in favor of the Yanks. It goes both ways.

Did you see the game?

[ToTheLeft]

Not this one, no. Listened to it.

And if you really want me to go dig up PitchFX data I will. I didn't mean to come across as a jerk or anything, but it happens to every team. The Rays have had at least a dozen innings this season extended by bad umps, and those innings led to runs and to losses. I feel your pain but it's not something to point out in a Cy Young debate. Until the MLB gets a robot to call balls and strikes we'll always have this issue.

[Gil Dobie]

Can't forget about Rafael Soriano, reliever for Tampa. 43 saves & 1.82 era, or Joakim Soria KC, 41 saves & 1.58 era.