Summit Expansion Talk Continues

[JBB]

Out of Oakland, Michigan comes this article on Summit expansion:

http://oaklandpostonline.com/2010/10/12 ... it-league/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Summit has already moved up the site visit from late November to early. Now Tom Douple, Summit Commish, is reported to have visited UND last week. Obviously The Commish is in a hurry and we all know why:

1) Big Sky
2) It seems there is always room for 1 more

Membership is security but costs will always enter the picture. For the Big 3 Dakota Schools one more Dakota school is good. Nice bus games, good crowds and excellent regional media. Of course, all of this is available without the conference so when is enough Dakota enough for the Summit?

“I think it can strengthen our league from the standpoint that, when you talk about the Dakota schools, those are the major state schools for those states,” Oakland University Athletic Director Tracy Huth said. “The question in my mind right now is that if we expand and bring in North Dakota, we have an 11-team league. I’m not sure how we handle that within all the team sports particularly with all the traveling and having an uneven number of teams. I’ll be curious to see if we try and continue to expand.”

That statement doesnt exactly sound like a lock for UND. In the next breath the article talked about Eastern Ill. becoming more involved. It almost sounds like they might be a candidate. If another school is going to be added the eastern contingency of schools and original members are going to have a lot to say. For the new schools to push because its convenient for them could offend some important friends inside the conference. For the Dakota schools either way is good.

If the Summit adds UND it's almost a sure bet the football side of things is going to change as well. It would all seem pre-determined.

[JBB]

I went over to UNDs board to see if they had anything to say about the Summit activity. They dont like the Summit. The Summit respected the NCAA in the cruel and abusive mascot fight by asking members not to schedule them and refusing to look at their application until their fight was over. Apparently they are in a bit of a hissy fit:

The Sicatoka:
Entertainment?
I’d like to watch a rousing game of “Shoot hockey pucks at the visiting, interloping-on-logo-issue, conference commissioner”.

That’d be quality entertainment.

That is not an isolated comment and it is a big reason why they dont belong in the Summit. The chip on their shoulder was bad enough when they were in the NCC. Its hard to imagine how their membership in the Summit would be conducive to uplifting the league with a quality basketball program and committed member? Their football is bad enough. Their basketball may be the worst in the division. Travel to UND is burdensome for the majority of the league and they have no desire to respect the league or the schools in it.

http://www.siouxsports.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[JBB]

More trash talk about the Summit from UND fans:

http://www.siouxsports.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

posted yesterday by Rick:
I completely agree. When you look at the membership of the two conferences I don't think it's even close. Who do you want to hang around with, prestigious research universities like Cal Poly & UC-Davis, and Idaho State University is also a public doctoral/research-intensive university. Montana State is also a a research university so there isn't a school in the Summit that even comes close to these schools as far as academics. Even without Montana I'd take the Big Sky in a heartbeat. If Montana stays, that would be a huge bonus.

I would think the Big Sky would be a huge recruiting advantage also. If you were a recruit and you were deciding between UND, NDSU, SDSU and a few other schools that will be after the same kids and the coach told you that your conference games will be at places in Southern California, the Sacramento area, Arizona, Colorado and Montana. Now, if you decide to go to SDSU or NDSU, you'll be playing your games at IPFW, IUPUI and UMKC.....what would be more attractive to most recruits?

posted by the Green Team yesterday:
I understand that The Summit has our former rivals and creates an easy access and corridor for fans in those games, but I for one am hopeful for the Big Sky..--going to Fort Wayne Indiana or wherever Western Illinois is at doesn't get me all excited. Just as some say N. Ariz, and Weber St. don't get fans excited. And even though I've never been to Flagstaff, I would think that would be better than going to Fort Wayne? Maybe? Plus we have a ton of alumni in Arizona during the winter that could get to that game.

Your former rivals is right indeed! Please BSC take these indignant bums before they gain entrance into the Summit and bring their arrogance to the league ruining it for everyone.

[dbackjon]

EIU to Summit?

If the Summit add EIU and UND, hello Summit League football

[JBB]

Thats a possibility. Of course they would have to want to leave the Ohio valley, take on a tremendous new travel cost load, increase their scheduling difficulties, change their recruiting etc etc etc. Maybe Im missing something, because even if all that did come true and Summit football was on the table there would be significant opposition.It doesnt do any favors for the schools already in the league that do play foo ball.

I read this over on http://www.siouxsports.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; today:

star2city:
The Summit has no real brand - because it is so new and so transitional - it actually kind of degrades a University's standing.

Ps. The Panthers are win-less so far this season. They take another shot against Murray State this weekend.

[JBB]

As rumors break across the land it is becoming apparent UND is going to have to hold its collective nose and join the Summit if an invite is extended. I think this was all decided this summer when the conferences met about the Great West schools.

[Wildcat Ryan]

More trash talk about the Summit from UND fans:

http://www.siouxsports.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

posted yesterday by Rick:
I completely agree. When you look at the membership of the two conferences I don't think it's even close. Who do you want to hang around with, prestigious research universities like Cal Poly & UC-Davis, and Idaho State University is also a public doctoral/research-intensive university. Montana State is also a a research university so there isn't a school in the Summit that even comes close to these schools as far as academics. Even without Montana I'd take the Big Sky in a heartbeat. If Montana stays, that would be a huge bonus.

I would think the Big Sky would be a huge recruiting advantage also. If you were a recruit and you were deciding between UND, NDSU, SDSU and a few other schools that will be after the same kids and the coach told you that your conference games will be at places in Southern California, the Sacramento area, Arizona, Colorado and Montana. Now, if you decide to go to SDSU or NDSU, you'll be playing your games at IPFW, IUPUI and UMKC.....what would be more attractive to most recruits?

posted by the Green Team yesterday:
I understand that The Summit has our former rivals and creates an easy access and corridor for fans in those games, but I for one am hopeful for the Big Sky..--going to Fort Wayne Indiana or wherever Western Illinois is at doesn't get me all excited. Just as some say N. Ariz, and Weber St. don't get fans excited. And even though I've never been to Flagstaff, I would think that would be better than going to Fort Wayne? Maybe? Plus we have a ton of alumni in Arizona during the winter that could get to that game.

Your former rivals is right indeed! Please BSC take these indignant bums before they gain entrance into the Summit and bring their arrogance to the league ruining it for everyone.

I like the UND fan that said playing Weber State doesnt get anyone excited, he obviously doesnt know Weber State Hoops and has never been to the Dee Events Center.

[JBB]

Well, most havent been anywhere except "teh hockies".

With what appears to be a BSC all sports invite in hand UND fans continue projecting their discontent with all things not in their control:

you have to admit, the Summit looks like a loser if Montana and MSU stay and UND, USD, and conference FB champ SUU join the Big Sky. Douple's hesitation or ego whichever, could have been the death sentence for bringing the conference into prime time. In spite of all the negative press the Bison fans spew, UND is recognized nationally as the most notable school in the state. I have mixed feelings. If the Sioux join the Summit I can travel to more games, but I think for prestige and national press and recruiting exposure, the Big Sky is the way to go. Just remember, North Dakota State, Summit and Suck all start with SU.

Stay classy UND!

This is the biggest blessing to the Summit even if USD leaves! I like USD, enjoyed the football this year and looked forward to competiting in the Summit. Great fans and a nice place to visit. UND on the other hand, good ridence and see ya later. I guess a football game every year is out of the question?

[JBB]

It's difficult to say why "UND Football Insider" would print this:

We fully expect USD to announce their decision to join the Big Sky for all sports during this next week. They apparently have some internal issues which need to be figured out that UND did not have to worry about. From what we are told they are simply logistical and that they will be solved shortly.

Is this the depth of their insights? USD owes the Summit $500,000 if they leave.

Is UND going to take money from North Dakota taxpayers and give it to USD in order to save themselves?

http://siouxfb.areavoices.com/2010/10/31/hello-big-sky/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pistol!! (inside joke)

[JBB]

I think my previous observation is correct. siouxfootballinsider.com really underplayed this issue, or had no grasp of it?

USD is certainly on the cusp. If the MVFC is on board their best bet is to stay with the Summit and keep the Big 3 Dakota Schools: NDSU, SDSU and USD together in what is emerging as one of the greatest college sports alliances in the division.

[clenz]

I just don't see the MVFC OR MVC....remember they are two separate conferences.....looking to expand yet.

The "all sports" is perfectly happy with 10 teams. The sports that drive the conference are basketball and baseball.

For basketball 10 teams gives us a great 18 game regular season basketball schedule, and allows us a perfect use of St. Louis for the conference tournaments. Adding teams like UND, USD, SDSU, NDSU, etc... makes that unattainable, and would actually drag the league RPI down, which the "administrations" won't let happen. They aren't happy not being the top rated non-BCS conference in basketball anymore, and are doing everything they can to make it so that is the situation again.

The only way the Dakota schools get an invite, without a complete Summit/MVC merge is if Evansville or Indiana State decides to leave the conference for the OVC, or a conference with less travel. I don't see InSU leaving anytime soon, as they look like there is a renewed sense of pride in their athletic programs. Evansville seems happy to “ride the wave” of the MVC in basketball and baseball for right now. They are a respectable baseball program, and their basketball program has been struggling, but has been more competitive the last 2 years than prior years and isn’t that far removed from NCAA tournament appearances.

Let’s say for S and G’s that Evansville does leave for the OVC, or another conference, the MVC is left to look for a replacement. I still don't see it going to any of the Dakota's. USD and SDSU are the most geographic fit out of those four, and with UND already hooking onto the Big Sky that leaves NDSU as the odd man out here....NDSU may be left on a sinking ship yet, just watch. Let's say USD hooks onto the Big Sky as well. That leaves SDSU, NDSU, South East Missouri State, Western Illinois, and St. Louis University (who has been eyed by the MVC for a long time) as the "best" replacements.

Looking at that there would leave the teams split into 3 geographic fits

Great fits:
WIU, SLU, SEMO

Acceptable fits:
SDSU

Probably too far:
NDSU


I would put the expected order of want by the administrators like this (my reasoning in the spoil:
SLU

Spoiler: show

Perfect fit for the MVC. The conference HQ is in St. Louis, and it seems SLU has been “coveted” for a while. They have a good basketball program, and a very good baseball program from the looks of it. The problem will be luring them from the A10, but depending the direction the Big East takes, it may not be hard. The only issue here is that the MVC basketball tournament is in St. Louis as a neutral site (Scott Trade Center), and SLU’s home arena is just miles from there. That may not be an issue though as St. Louis has been a great host for 20+ years. Moving the tournament to KC has been thrown around some, but there is no big rush to move it from STL.

WIU

Spoiler: show

Location is the only real reason I would think they would be this high, along with being in the MVFC. Their baseball and basketball programs don’t seem to be on par with the MVC standard, but location/travel distance is big

SDSU

Spoiler: show

I may have them and WIU switched, but the fact WIU is right in the center of the MVC helps them a ton. SDSU seems to have a good baseball program and being an MVFC team does help. However, the travel for basketball for teams other than Drake, Creighton, and UNI would be a sticking point

SEMO

Spoiler: show

Assuming they would want to leave the OVC they seem to be a decent fit. The problem is their basketball program sucks, and basketball is the baby of the MVC. Location again helps them a ton, and could push them over SDSU if the economy doesn’t get right and travel is an issue

NDSU

Spoiler: show

They would seem to be a good fit in the MVC. They have a huge problem though….they aren’t even close to any current MVC teams. The closest teams are Creighton (Omaha, NE @ 420 miles), Drake (Des Moines, IA @ 480 miles), and UNI (Cedar Falls, IA @ 450 miles)*. Also, outside of that magical basketball season where they made the MVC, they don’t fit the basketball mold either, but being in the MVFC and having had some success in other sports (their softball and volleyball programs would help them a lot believe it or not) does keep them afloat in the discussion.

*850 miles to ISUB (Terra Haute, IN), 700 miles to ISUR (Normal, Il), 950 miles to SIU (Carbondale, IL), 750 miles to MSU (Springfield, MO), 75 miles to Wichita State (Wichita, KS) and 700 miles to Bradley (Peoria, IL)

NDSU is going to have that problem for every conference though

Now if the Summit and MVC combine into a huge super conference, that changes things and I won’t/can’t go into those as those details get way to crazy.

The only hope for the DSU’s, I believe, is if SIU, MSU, and ISUR leave for the FBS and those conference require them to join that conference in all sports. That opens up a ton of spots for them, then they would be in in a second. However, the only one of those I see with a real dedication to going FBS is Missouri State as they seem to be set on it. I can’t get a good read if ISUR really wants to go, as they would likely leave the MVC for a lesser basketball conference, and they are a basketball school, and SIU seems to be okay with the MVC right now.

Wichita State is always looking for a way out, as they think their programs are too good for a mid-major conference. Their fan base actually believes they belong in the B12 for basketball, but can’t understand without football they aren’t going anywhere. Creighton might jump at an opportunity for a Catholic basketball conference with some of the Big East schools, but I don’t see that conference ever happening.


Long post short, barring a complete merger I don’t see the DSU’s in the MVC.

[clenz]

Wow, I just read the USD to the MVFC thread.....



My previous post is probably void now. Dammit, that took a while too.

[JBB]

Your observations on the MVC are on the mark. Obviously the MVFC changed. Its for the better.