For those that don't support full equality for all Americans

[native]

but I do not celebrate, embrace, or approve of your chosen lifestyle or your self-obsessed political agenda.

It is not a choice

the science is very clear on the subject

people can not "choose" to be either gay or straight any more than they can choose to be born with blue eyes or brown hair

I do not hate you or Jon, OSBF, and it is none of my business who or how you choose to love, as long as it is with consenting adults.

However, the science on homosexuality is not "very clear," as you state. Just because homosexuality is no longer classified as a "disorder" by the APA, it does not necessarily follow that homosexual behavior is 100% biological. It is ridiculous to say that only nature, and not nurture, affects homosexual behavior, or for that matter, heterosexual behavior. Sure, we are all born with slightly different tendencies and proclivities, but environment and human will play a role as well.

An excellent summary of the state of science was included in a biology paper submitted by Bryn Mawr student Georgia Lawrence:

"...In Science magazine in 1991, Thomas A. Schoenfeld ... states that biology cannot always be viewed as something that runs against social environment and upbringing, 'It is all too common to see early experience, social learning, or choice pitted against biology, but these are false dichotomies.' Rather it is the genetic and biological traits that lead to predisposition towards certain behavior characteristics. This approach allows for the biological factors in homosexuality, without limiting the subject to exclusively culture or biology. ..."

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/33" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just because the APA no longer classifies homosexual behavior as a disorder does not mean I must support the gay political agenda.

Peace.

[clenz]

Um...OSBF isn't gay.

That is, he has a girlfriend.

[native]

Um...OSBF isn't gay.

That is, he has a girlfriend.

Ooops! Apologies.

[ATrain]

While it is scientifically inconclusive that biology plays 100% into sexual attractions, it is concluded that it does play a role. While nurture can also affect it, some of the common stereotypes: absent father, sexual molestation, etc aren't entirely true as there are gay men out there that had great relationships with their dads and were never sexually molested. So to say its completely a combination of both is also false.

[JoltinJoe]

Um...OSBF isn't gay.

That is, he has a girlfriend.

Ooops! Apologies.

Not that there's anything wrong with that ....

[D1B]

Forgive them Father, for they know not what they have done.

Hey, I don't "hate" the guys for this. They're just khundts. What gives me hope is that their type will die off and the world is becoming more and more progressive and inclusive. It sure ain't going backward to their sh*t.

I don't know how a fvck like DJH or native can live with themselves hating and wanting to discriminate against people the way they do. How could someone be married to sh*theads like that, too?

Ick!

I've talked to Native on the phone - good fella - maleable - will figure it out before he kills some.

DJH on the other hand is a crabby, humorless eunich who has never had a relationship, with a human. He will continue to pay the price for his shitheadedness for the rest of his life.

We'll be reading bout him soon. He's either gonna shoot up a McDonalds or hes gonna die Waco style at some cult compound.

[DJH]

[Gil Dobie]

We'll be reading bout him soon. He's either gonna shoot up a McDonalds or hes gonna die Waco style at some UNI football game.

FIFY

[native]

While it is scientifically inconclusive that biology plays 100% into sexual attractions, it is concluded that it does play a role. While nurture can also affect it, some of the common stereotypes: absent father, sexual molestation, etc aren't entirely true as there are gay men out there that had great relationships with their dads and were never sexually molested. So to say its completely a combination of both is also false.

You have posted a non sequitur, ATrain. There are only three possibilities: nature, nurture, or a combination of both.

[∞∞∞]

Question for some of ya older peeps. Were teen suicides as big of an issue as they are now? Obviously no kid should ever get bullied, but it happens and will continue for as long as humans exist. Anyways, were suicides 'cause of bullying (especially LGBT kids) as bad back then? It's really picked up recently, and I'm just curious if younger people are truly becoming more sensitive, or if the media is simply reporting more if it, or if there are some other reasons (social media for example)?

BTW, very powerful video.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Question for some of ya older peeps. Were teen suicides as big of an issue as they are now? Obviously no kid should ever get bullied, but it happens and will continue for as long as humans exist. Anyways, were suicides 'cause of bullying (especially LGBT kids) as bad back then? It's really picked up recently, and I'm just curious if younger people are truly becoming more sensitive, or if the media is simply reporting more if it, or if there are some other reasons (social media for example)?

BTW, very powerful video.

That laying blame shit is a total crock of shit. Bullying is also a cop out. I would almost guarantee that I've lost more friends to suicide than anybody on this board. I lived in the suicide capitol of the world in the mid to late 80's and the fact is that sometimes people just give up and they see the kind of attention that a suicide brings and they want at least that as a final acceptance. I really have seen a shit load of people kill themselves for any reason they could think of. If they want to do it let em' and the herd will be stronger because of it.

[dbackjon]

Take some responsibility for your hatred, and see who you have killed.


" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

1. No kids should be bullied at school, or anywhere else. Kids should be free from fear and free to make their own choices.

2. Kids should be taught tolerance but should not be socialized in school to embrace or celebrate the gay life style.

3. Consenting adults of sound mind should be free to do what they please with each other in the privacy of their own homes, without fear.

4. Consenting adults of sound mind should be able to make binding contracts for mutual support as they choose.

5. The gay lifestyle should not be imposed on the military. DADT protects personal choices, private conscience, and the military mission.

6. Gay "marriage" is a political ploy, not a "right." Traditional marriage is just fine. Gay activists should stop acting out and live their lives as they see fit, leaving the rest of society alone.

7. I have complete sympathy for the victims described in the video. BUT your hyperbole is bullsh!t, jon. I spent 25 years willing to die to protect your freedom, but I do not celebrate, embrace, or approve of your chosen lifestyle or your self-obsessed political agenda.

1. Agreed
2. Total Bullshit
3. Agreed
4. Fine
5. Total fucking bigoted batshit. Gay men and women serve in many militaries, just fine.
6. Again, total fucking bullshit. You can shove your bigotry and hatred up your ass.
7. No, you do not have sympathy, and no, you obviously don't give a shit about equality for all Americans. I am obsessed with equality. If you and others are too fucking bigot and blinded by your upbringing, religion and other hatreds, then that is something that YOU need to deal with.


I DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE GAY. If you think that being gay is a choice, then you are fucking ignorant.

If your religion teaches you that, then your religion is fucked up, and is a hateful and bigoted religion.

[kalm]

1. No kids should be bullied at school, or anywhere else. Kids should be free from fear and free to make their own choices.

2. Kids should be taught tolerance but should not be socialized in school to embrace or celebrate the gay life style.

3. Consenting adults of sound mind should be free to do what they please with each other in the privacy of their own homes, without fear.

4. Consenting adults of sound mind should be able to make binding contracts for mutual support as they choose.

5. The gay lifestyle should not be imposed on the military. DADT protects personal choices, private conscience, and the military mission.

6. Gay "marriage" is a political ploy, not a "right." Traditional marriage is just fine. Gay activists should stop acting out and live their lives as they see fit, leaving the rest of society alone.

7. I have complete sympathy for the victims described in the video. BUT your hyperbole is bullsh!t, jon. I spent 25 years willing to die to protect your freedom, but I do not celebrate, embrace, or approve of your chosen lifestyle or your self-obsessed political agenda.

1. Agreed
2. Total Bullshit
3. Agreed
4. Fine
5. Total **** bigoted batshit. Gay men and women serve in many militaries, just fine.
6. Again, total **** bullshit. You can shove your bigotry and hatred up your ass.
7. No, you do not have sympathy, and no, you obviously don't give a **** about equality for all Americans. I am obsessed with equality. If you and others are too **** bigot and blinded by your upbringing, religion and other hatreds, then that is something that YOU need to deal with.


I DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE GAY. If you think that being gay is a choice, then you are **** ignorant.

If your religion teaches you that, then your religion is **** up, and is a hateful and bigoted religion.

Troof.

[CID1990]

1. No kids should be bullied at school, or anywhere else. Kids should be free from fear and free to make their own choices.

2. Kids should be taught tolerance but should not be socialized in school to embrace or celebrate the gay life style.

3. Consenting adults of sound mind should be free to do what they please with each other in the privacy of their own homes, without fear.

4. Consenting adults of sound mind should be able to make binding contracts for mutual support as they choose.

5. The gay lifestyle should not be imposed on the military. DADT protects personal choices, private conscience, and the military mission.

6. Gay "marriage" is a political ploy, not a "right." Traditional marriage is just fine. Gay activists should stop acting out and live their lives as they see fit, leaving the rest of society alone.

7. I have complete sympathy for the victims described in the video. BUT your hyperbole is bullsh!t, jon. I spent 25 years willing to die to protect your freedom, but I do not celebrate, embrace, or approve of your chosen lifestyle or your self-obsessed political agenda.

1. Agreed
2. Total Bullshit
3. Agreed
4. Fine
5. Total **** bigoted batshit. Gay men and women serve in many militaries, just fine.
6. Again, total **** bullshit. You can shove your bigotry and hatred up your ass.
7. No, you do not have sympathy, and no, you obviously don't give a **** about equality for all Americans. I am obsessed with equality. If you and others are too **** bigot and blinded by your upbringing, religion and other hatreds, then that is something that YOU need to deal with.


I DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE GAY. If you think that being gay is a choice, then you are **** ignorant.

If your religion teaches you that, then your religion is **** up, and is a hateful and bigoted religion.

LOL you need to go take your lithium Jon, that was the most bipolar sh!t you have ever posted.

[JoltinJoe]

It's not bipolar. It's the result of being told, both implicitly and explicitly, for most of his life that he is different, or queer, or wicked, or (at best) inferior. Teenage years and early adult years can be difficult enough without having to carry around all that. We need to stop psychologically ostracizing gays because Tyler Clementi is not the last young man who is going to take a dive off a bridge.

[CID1990]

It's not bipolar. It's the result of being told, both implicitly and explicitly, for most of his life that he is different, or queer, or wicked, or (at best) inferior. Teenage years and early adult years can be difficult enough without having to carry around all that. We need to stop psychologically ostracizing gays because Tyler Clementi is not the last young man who is going to take a dive off a bridge.

Take it easy, Mr. Obvious. Jon is a big boy, you don't have to hold his c0ck for him.

I was laughing at the up and down as he went from point to point.

[native]

It's not bipolar. It's the result of being told, both implicitly and explicitly, for most of his life that he is different, or queer, or wicked, or (at best) inferior. Teenage years and early adult years can be difficult enough without having to carry around all that. We need to stop psychologically ostracizing gays because Tyler Clementi is not the last young man who is going to take a dive off a bridge.

Point taken, Joe, but there is a difference between, on the one hand, ostracizing those who are different and, on the other hand, embracing their self-obsessed and blindly destructive political agenda.

[kalm]

It's not bipolar. It's the result of being told, both implicitly and explicitly, for most of his life that he is different, or queer, or wicked, or (at best) inferior. Teenage years and early adult years can be difficult enough without having to carry around all that. We need to stop psychologically ostracizing gays because Tyler Clementi is not the last young man who is going to take a dive off a bridge.

Point taken, Joe, but there is a difference between, on the one hand, ostracizing those who are different and, on the other hand, embracing their self-obsessed and blindly destructive political agenda.

Who does their political agenda destroy?

[YoUDeeMan]

I am obsessed with equality.

No, you are not.

You are after equality for YOUR agenda.

Noticed you didn't answer my earlier question, so I'll make it a little more clear.

Where are your threads to support fat people? Short people?

Where are your treads to support any other groups?



Ooooops! You don't regularly start any of those threads, Jon. you knwo why? Because you are NOT obsessed with equality. Actions speak louder than words, Jon...and your actions point to one thing...gay equality.

[Bronco]

[JoltinJoe]

It's not bipolar. It's the result of being told, both implicitly and explicitly, for most of his life that he is different, or queer, or wicked, or (at best) inferior. Teenage years and early adult years can be difficult enough without having to carry around all that. We need to stop psychologically ostracizing gays because Tyler Clementi is not the last young man who is going to take a dive off a bridge.

Take it easy, Mr. Obvious. Jon is a big boy, you don't have to hold his c0ck for him.

I was laughing at the up and down as he went from point to point.

Sorry I misunderstood your intent. While this may be obvious, apparently it is not obvious to some.

[native]

It's not bipolar. It's the result of being told, both implicitly and explicitly, for most of his life that he is different, or queer, or wicked, or (at best) inferior. Teenage years and early adult years can be difficult enough without having to carry around all that. We need to stop psychologically ostracizing gays because Tyler Clementi is not the last young man who is going to take a dive off a bridge.

Your point is well taken, Joe. I appreciate your insight and compassion.

[Wedgebuster]

From the old fart files. There has always been bullies and bully victims. The victims of bullies either grew up to be cops, bankers, or lawyers and almost always gained their revenge in one form or another.

Most of the bullies were drafted into the military, and the survivors are working at Walmart, or as a custodian in the public school systems.

[Appaholic]

I DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE GAY. If you think that being gay is a choice, then you are fucking ignorant.

If your religion teaches you that, then your religion is fucked up, and is a hateful and bigoted religion.

I've met & broke bread with both Jon & his partner. Two finer people you'll never meet so I say this with heavy heart but, for argument's sake, please answer this question: If being gay isn't somewhat of a choice, then I assume you've never had heterosexual relations? Because if you chose to have heterosexual relations, then why couldn't you choose to have homosexual relations & just prefer it over heterosexual relations?

I find it ironic the gay community demands to be accepted (as if they shouldn't be by any rational person's criteria - what business is it of mine?) yet won't accept the theory that maybe it's not an either/or decision (nature/nuture) but more likely a combination of both. It's almost as if they need the "crutch" of it only being nature so they can reconcile the lifestyle with themselves. I know they found Buck's comparison to alcoholism offensive, but remove the emotion and look at the argument: some people, through evolutionary heredity (mother/father), are more pre-disposed to alcoholism. They don't all become alcoholics, but are more likely to as their are more receptors to alcohol in their system. Couldn't homosexuality be similar? I mean, not all children of homosexuals are homosexual & certainly not all heterosexual parents bring heterosexual children into the world. But then again, my opinion & $.50 might buy you a cup of coffee on this subject....

[Rob Iola]

Jon - why do you bash us when your worst enemy is sitting in the White House? If he doesn't take care of equal rights for all Americans, then who will?