New Client Denied Health Coverage...

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I can't say for certain that it's Obama's fault, but what IS his fault is not living up to his pledge to effectively communicate what was in the new legislation - there will always be some people who never get it, but most people should if it has been explained properly. There are a lot of incumbents right now studying the plan they voted on to find out what's in it.

How the f are you going to explain a 2,000 page bill to people? The size of the bill alone ensures it will be a failure.

True but at least the bill was conceived out in the open and nothing behind closed doors and no back room type dealings going on. At least he did what he said on that part right?

[Skjellyfetti]

How the f are you going to explain a 2,000 page bill to people? The size of the bill alone ensures it will be a failure.

That shit is so misleading. You make it sound like it's the equivalent of a 2,000 page book. Like every other bill... the margins and the font are HUGE. Almost every major spending bill is over 1,000 pages. You can read the bill without much effort or time. You're just regurgitating a stale talking point from 6 months ago.
http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[HI54UNI]

How the f are you going to explain a 2,000 page bill to people? The size of the bill alone ensures it will be a failure.

That shit is so misleading. You make it sound like it's the equivalent of a 2,000 page book. Like every other bill... the margins and the font are HUGE. Almost every major spending bill is over 1,000 pages. You can read the bill without much effort or time. You're just regurgitating a stale talking point from 6 months ago.
http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What is it like having Obama's dick in your mouth all day long?

[SDHornet]

That shit is so misleading. You make it sound like it's the equivalent of a 2,000 page book. Like every other bill... the margins and the font are HUGE. Almost every major spending bill is over 1,000 pages. You can read the bill without much effort or time. You're just regurgitating a stale talking point from 6 months ago.
http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What is it like having Obama's dick in your mouth all day long?

[89Hen]

You initially claimed my statement was irrelevant. Now you're the one driving hardest to the hoop.

I initially claimed your chart told 30% of the story and therefore was a bad case to make. I stand by that, just as you stand by your first claim.

[AZGrizFan]

How the f are you going to explain a 2,000 page bill to people? The size of the bill alone ensures it will be a failure.

That shit is so misleading. You make it sound like it's the equivalent of a 2,000 page book. Like every other bill... the margins and the font are HUGE. Almost every major spending bill is over 1,000 pages. You can read the bill without much effort or time. You're just regurgitating a stale talking point from 6 months ago.
http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And yet your precious democrats couldn't bother to expend "much effort or time" to actually READ what they were cramming down our THROATS. You do realize it makes the passage of the bill WORSE, not better, right?

[ASUG8]

I can't say for certain that it's Obama's fault, but what IS his fault is not living up to his pledge to effectively communicate what was in the new legislation - there will always be some people who never get it, but most people should if it has been explained properly. There are a lot of incumbents right now studying the plan they voted on to find out what's in it.

How the f are you going to explain a 2,000 page bill to people? The size of the bill alone ensures it will be a failure.

It the joint obligation as President and Congress to (a) understand the bill you crafted, and (b) be able to effectively tell the people affected and paying for it what they are receiving. No question, it's not an easy chore but you should be able to flesh out the major items so there's a lot less misinformation amongst the taxpayers. People are pissed off about it, and a lot of them don't even know why.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

That shit is so misleading. You make it sound like it's the equivalent of a 2,000 page book. Like every other bill... the margins and the font are HUGE. Almost every major spending bill is over 1,000 pages. You can read the bill without much effort or time. You're just regurgitating a stale talking point from 6 months ago.
http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What is it like having Obama's dick in your mouth all day long?

This point, and the fact that AZ turned him around with his own words as far as the people that passed it not even reading it take this thread.

We have co-winners on this thread people.

[Cap'n Cat]

What is it like having Obama's dick in your mouth all day long?

This point, and the fact that AZ turned him around with his own words as far as the people that passed it not even reading it take this thread.

We have co-winners on this thread people.

Yeah, me and Skjelly. Anytime any idiot introduces ConkHate and ConkHype and ConkIgnorance into a thread, they automatically lose. Z couldn't read the bill if he tried, yet he claims to know everything about. Why? Cuz Rush said so.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

This point, and the fact that AZ turned him around with his own words as far as the people that passed it not even reading it take this thread.

We have co-winners on this thread people.

Yeah, me and Skjelly. Anytime any idiot introduces ConkHate and ConkHype and ConkIgnorance into a thread, they automatically lose. Z couldn't read the bill if he tried, yet he claims to know everything about. Why? Cuz Rush said so.

Brother, you would win many, many points if you wanted to but you don't care. You don't try and have legitimate point/counterpoint discussions. You only care about lighting a fire and tossing about the "Conk" bs. That's your gimmick, and my new one is declaring winners based on superfluous bs. Neither one of us should be expected to be taken seriously.

AZ had a cogent retort to skelly's marginalization of normal people reading the bill by pointing out that most of the authors/signers of the work had not even read it all. That's a fuckin' win dude.

[Cap'n Cat]

Yeah, me and Skjelly. Anytime any idiot introduces ConkHate and ConkHype and ConkIgnorance into a thread, they automatically lose. Z couldn't read the bill if he tried, yet he claims to know everything about. Why? Cuz Rush said so.

Brother, you would win many, many points if you wanted to but you don't care. You don't try and have legitimate point/counterpoint discussions. You only care about lighting a fire and tossing about the "Conk" bs. That's your gimmick, and my new one is declaring winners based on superfluous bs. Neither one of us should be expected to be taken seriously.

AZ had a cogent retort to skelly's marginalization of normal people reading the bill by pointing out that most of the authors/signers of the work had not even read it all. That's a fuckin' win dude.

I was playing, Urso. I don't look for wins and losses, I just like to kick it.

And, anyhow, how in the FVCK does Almighty Z know that the Dems didn't read the bill?? Quite a reach for even an exaggerater like him!!

[Cap'n Cat]

And, how dare you call out my superficial shallowness!!!

[Cap'n Cat]

And nevermind Conk grenades.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

And, how dare you call out my superficial shallowness!!!

Cap'n wins that one.

[grizzaholic]

And, how dare you call out my superficial shallowness!!!

Cap'n wins that one.

If that is the threshold for a victory, he will/should win every "discussion" he ever enters.

[native]

...Neither one of us should be expected to be taken seriously. ....

Bullsh!t!!! Your self deprecation and modesty are admirable but wrong, Ursus.

You more than hold your own in every point/counterpoint discussion you choose to enter, and when you choose to play instead of discuss, you are almost always funny and not a complete asshole about it.

Everybody makes mistakes and has their bad moments, but in the vast majority of instances every frequent poster on this board posts in good humor and good faith except for two: Cap and D.

The dismal brothers are like those masked jackasses who destroy cars and firebomb innocent businesses at every political summit in Europe. They disrupt without making a positive contribution. Once Cap and D enter the poli board, they should be treated like the rabid dogs they emulate so well.

[native]

How the f are you going to explain a 2,000 page bill to people? The size of the bill alone ensures it will be a failure.

That **** is so misleading. You make it sound like it's the equivalent of a 2,000 page book. Like every other bill... the margins and the font are HUGE. Almost every major spending bill is over 1,000 pages. You can read the bill without much effort or time. You're just regurgitating a stale talking point from 6 months ago.
http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's worse than a 2,000 page book, skelly. Tolstoy and Asimov, for example, are at least readable.

[BDKJMU]

How the f are you going to explain a 2,000 page bill to people? The size of the bill alone ensures it will be a failure.

That **** is so misleading. You make it sound like it's the equivalent of a 2,000 page book. Like every other bill... the margins and the font are HUGE. Almost every major spending bill is over 1,000 pages. You can read the bill without much effort or time. You're just regurgitating a stale talking point from 6 months ago.
http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So the margins and font are large. So even if it was 500-1000 pages with normal font and margins, still any bill that large is bound to be a giant turd full of bureacratic bullsh*t and legalese that the avg person (and politician for that matter) can't understand and that the politicians haven't read in its entirety, or even a small fraction of. There's no reason they can't limit all bills to under 100 pages (or 200-300 pages if using big a** font and margins) of simple, easy to understand language, and read them in their entirety before they vote. Any notion that they just can't do that is bs.

[Skjellyfetti]

So the margins and font are large. So even if it was 500-1000 pages with normal font and margins, still any bill that large is bound to be a giant turd full of bureacratic bullsh*t and legalese that the avg person (and politician for that matter) can't understand and that the politicians haven't read in its entirety, or even a small fraction of. There's no reason they can't limit all bills to under 100 pages (or 200-300 pages if using big a** font and margins) of simple, easy to understand language, and read them in their entirety before they vote. Any notion that they just can't do that is bs.

If you wanted to impose a (completely arbitrary ) 100 page limit on bills... they would just use tiny font or just split the bill up into multiple bills.

Bills used to be shorter, on average, but there were a lot more bills. Now they are larger but they pass fewer. A legislator couldn't read every bill 40 years ago because there were too many (~20,000 bills per year in the 1970's). Now a legislator can't read every bill because they are long... but, only a quarter the number that were introduced 40 years ago.

It's what staffs are for.

[YoUDeeMan]

So the margins and font are large. So even if it was 500-1000 pages with normal font and margins, still any bill that large is bound to be a giant turd full of bureacratic bullsh*t and legalese that the avg person (and politician for that matter) can't understand and that the politicians haven't read in its entirety, or even a small fraction of. There's no reason they can't limit all bills to under 100 pages (or 200-300 pages if using big a** font and margins) of simple, easy to understand language, and read them in their entirety before they vote. Any notion that they just can't do that is bs.

If you wanted to impose a (completely arbitrary ) 100 page limit on bills... they would just use tiny font or just split the bill up into multiple bills.

Bills used to be shorter, on average, but there were a lot more bills. Now they are larger but they pass fewer. A legislator couldn't read every bill 40 years ago because there were too many (~20,000 bills per year in the 1970's). Now a legislator can't read every bill because they are long... but, only a quarter the number that were introduced 40 years ago.

It's what staffs are for.

Sure they can read those bills...and they should. It is their job.

Unfortunately, they don't see reading and passing bills as their job. They see their job as keeping their elected office at all costs and making back room deals for "election fund" (retirement) money.

So, they spend all of their time going to parties, making public appearances with the local unions, churches, etc. so that thet get votes to get reelected. Reading bills is not even on their list of priorities.

Term limits.

[AZGrizFan]

So the margins and font are large. So even if it was 500-1000 pages with normal font and margins, still any bill that large is bound to be a giant turd full of bureacratic bullsh*t and legalese that the avg person (and politician for that matter) can't understand and that the politicians haven't read in its entirety, or even a small fraction of. There's no reason they can't limit all bills to under 100 pages (or 200-300 pages if using big a** font and margins) of simple, easy to understand language, and read them in their entirety before they vote. Any notion that they just can't do that is bs.

If you wanted to impose a (completely arbitrary ) 100 page limit on bills... they would just use tiny font or just split the bill up into multiple bills.

Bills used to be shorter, on average, but there were a lot more bills. Now they are larger but they pass fewer. A legislator couldn't read every bill 40 years ago because there were too many (~20,000 bills per year in the 1970's). Now a legislator can't read every bill because they are long... but, only a quarter the number that were introduced 40 years ago.

It's what staffs are for.

As a legislator, before I voted on a $1 TRILLION bill, I'd sure as FUCK know what's in it. And i'd have read it.

You might want to raise your bar just a touch there, ky.

[YoUDeeMan]

Bills used to be shorter, on average, but there were a lot more bills. Now they are larger but they pass fewer. A legislator couldn't read every bill 40 years ago because there were too many (~20,000 bills per year in the 1970's). Now a legislator can't read every bill because they are long... but, only a quarter the number that were introduced 40 years ago.

It's what staffs are for.

As a legislator, before I voted on a $1 TRILLION bill, I'd sure as **** know what's in it. And i'd have read it.

You might want to raise your bar just a touch there, ky.

skelly doesn't want to raise the bar...that would require some effort. Instead, he wants to bring everyone else down to his level.

[Cap'n Cat]

...Neither one of us should be expected to be taken seriously. ....

Bullsh!t!!! Your self deprecation and modesty are admirable but wrong, Ursus.

You more than hold your own in every point/counterpoint discussion you choose to enter, and when you choose to play instead of discuss, you are almost always funny and not a complete asshole about it.

Everybody makes mistakes and has their bad moments, but in the vast majority of instances every frequent poster on this board posts in good humor and good faith except for two: Cap and D.

The dismal brothers are like those masked jackasses who destroy cars and firebomb innocent businesses at every political summit in Europe. They disrupt without making a positive contribution. Once Cap and D enter the poli board, they should be treated like the rabid dogs they emulate so well.

You're jealous, native. Feel sorry for you.

[Skjellyfetti]

As a legislator, before I voted on a $1 TRILLION bill, I'd sure as **** know what's in it. And i'd have read it.

You might want to raise your bar just a touch there, ky.

skelly doesn't want to raise the bar...that would require some effort. Instead, he wants to bring everyone else down to his level.

Every member of Congress should as **** know what's in the bill. It's no excuse to say afterwards that you didn't read it so you were ignorant of what was in the law. Your staff should read it... and if they do a poor job of relaying the information to you... that's YOUR fault.

I'm not defending people for not knowing what's in a bill they voted for.

It's just the reality, though. No one can read 20,000 short bills or 600 long bills every year. If y'all want every Congressman to read every bill up for vote... then speed reading should be the #1 attribute you look for in a representative.

[kalm]

As a legislator, before I voted on a $1 TRILLION bill, I'd sure as **** know what's in it. And i'd have read it.

You might want to raise your bar just a touch there, ky.

skelly doesn't want to raise the bar...that would require some effort. Instead, he wants to bring everyone else down to his level.

Every member of Congress should as **** know what's in the bill. It's no excuse to say afterwards that you didn't read it so you were ignorant of what was in the law. Your staff should read it... and if they do a poor job of relaying the information to you... that's YOUR fault.

I'm not defending people for not knowing what's in a bill they voted for.

It's just the reality, though. No one can read 20,000 short bills or 600 long bills every year. If y'all want every Congressman to read every bill up for vote... then speed reading should be the #1 attribute you look for in a representative.

My 7 year old son complains about having to read 2, 12 page books a night. So he has his older brother read them for him and then when I ask if he's finished his reading assignment, he relays to me what they were about.

Perhaps, we should limit the number of bills and their length to the reading level of our congressman.