Analyzing the WAC

[nwFL Griz]

The MWC has already invited Utah State. It's just a matter of time.

No they haven't. What happened was a feeler put out to guage interest, and basically find out what was up (with BYU). There never was an invite, nor will there ever be. (Barring the massive re-alignment I mentioned earlier)

[nwFL Griz]

This speculated look of the WAC may be fun for you, but is HIGHLY unlikely. Why on earth would the MWC take Utah St? Or would CUSA take LaTech or NMSU? Hawaii going independant is also just as unlikely, as they would have to do it for all sports. Some say the Big West would take them for everything but football. I doubt that the bus league known as the Big West would add a school that would tremendously increase everyone's travel costs.

The only way any of that happens is if there is a major shift in conference alignments, I'm talking dissolution of conference type re-alignment. While that is possible, it is unlikely.

You did a good job of taking tons of message board rumors and presenting it as if it were actually on somebody important's radar.

I really don't care where the Griz go (i'll still be a fan), but honesty in the debate is important.

Utah State was invited BEFORE nevada and Fresno but turned the offer down. Utah State has said, since Nevada and Fresno accepted, that the MWC now looks like it would be a good fit. The MWC, acording to numerous news sources, has been in talks with Utah State.

Again, never an invite. Please cite the sources of USU and MWC being in "talks".

[webfan]

Ok, believe what you want.

[nwFL Griz]

Ok, believe what you want.

I don't need to "believe" anything. If the MWC were actually interested in USU, why now that the WAC is all but kaput, is there zero talk from either USU or the MWC about Utah St joining the MWC when FSU and UNR do? If Utah St were that coveted by the MWC, the offer would still be open.

The facts speak for themselves.

[webfan]

The only thing keeping Utah State in the WAC is their shitty football team. I know USU and they feel above this new WAC and will bolt at first chance.

[CPAlum]

Ok, believe what you want.

I don't need to "believe" anything. If the MWC were actually interested in USU, why now that the WAC is all but kaput, is there zero talk from either USU or the MWC about Utah St joining the MWC when FSU and UNR do? If Utah St were that coveted by the MWC, the offer would still be open.

The facts speak for themselves.

Although I dont have the time to sift through old articles, I am pretty sure herky is correct about USU and I know there was at least one article that I read that indicated that the BW had agreed to take Hawaii in all sports but football with the assumption that Hawaii would offset travel costs. As far as LaTech one need look no further than a map for support. Although I don't think the scenario described is likely it is not based in complete rumor. There are plenty of facts available to support that outcome.

[mtjack]

Yup! Have fun Montana!!!

We'll miss you!


...well not you so much...



Or EWU for that matter...



Plus I kinda hate MSU...



F#$k Weber too!


In fact all of you! Except NAU, they're cool

Pretty sure that unbeaten streak since the mid-1990s vs. NAU has something to do with you being okay with the Jacks.

Unlike a lot of other Big Sky Conference fans, I'm copacetic with UofM fans. Yes, a few think they are God's gift to the FCS. Yes, a few have been spoiled with 12-15 or whatever years straight of winning and are somewhat out of touch with reality in their expectations. But I also know know that the ranting, pompous, vocal minority of blowhards don't represent the majority of Griz fans or Montana natives. It's tough sometimes but I'm able to separate the two.

Compared to what I've heard/read about some other conferences, I think the Big Sky has more reasonable folks representing their schools. I've heard horror stories of friends living in SEC/Big12 land and have seen some sketchy crap at a few ASU and UofA games from their respective fan bases over the year.

[nwFL Griz]

I don't need to "believe" anything. If the MWC were actually interested in USU, why now that the WAC is all but kaput, is there zero talk from either USU or the MWC about Utah St joining the MWC when FSU and UNR do? If Utah St were that coveted by the MWC, the offer would still be open.

The facts speak for themselves.

Although I dont have the time to sift through old articles, I am pretty sure herky is correct about USU and I know there was at least one article that I read that indicated that the BW had agreed to take Hawaii in all sports but football with the assumption that Hawaii would offset travel costs. As far as LaTech one need look no further than a map for support. Although I don't think the scenario described is likely it is not based in complete rumor. There are plenty of facts available to support that outcome.

I'm aware of all the articles about USU, but they all quote the open letter from Mr. Albrecht. In that letter, he said the MWC approached about "interest", but USU said we are good, thanks for asking. So, the MWC immediately goes for FSU and UNR, but never gets back to USU after the whole WAC basically falls apart?

That doesn't pass the smell test. It is obvious that a feeler was put out to see if BYU was up to something, and when USU gave away everything by immediately declining interest, the MWC moved to who they really wanted. Now, if USU had said they were interested, then maybe there would have been an invite, if only to keep BYU in the MWC.

I have never seen any article about the Big West, if you could link it, I'd love to give it a read.

Of course LaTech wants out of the WAC, they've expressed their desire for a more regional conference for a long time. But, unfortunately for them, no one else wants them at this time. So wanting out and having someplace to go are two seperate things.

So no, there are not "plenty of facts to support that outcome."

That being said, I will agree that USU and LaTech are both out at the first chance of anything better.

[nwFL Griz]

The only thing keeping Utah State in the WAC is their shitty football team. I know USU and they feel above this new WAC and will bolt at first chance.

Now this we can agree on.

[CPAlum]

Although I dont have the time to sift through old articles, I am pretty sure herky is correct about USU and I know there was at least one article that I read that indicated that the BW had agreed to take Hawaii in all sports but football with the assumption that Hawaii would offset travel costs. As far as LaTech one need look no further than a map for support. Although I don't think the scenario described is likely it is not based in complete rumor. There are plenty of facts available to support that outcome.

I'm aware of all the articles about USU, but they all quote the open letter from Mr. Albrecht. In that letter, he said the MWC approached about "interest", but USU said we are good, thanks for asking. So, the MWC immediately goes for FSU and UNR, but never gets back to USU after the whole WAC basically falls apart?

That doesn't pass the smell test. It is obvious that a feeler was put out to see if BYU was up to something, and when USU gave away everything by immediately declining interest, the MWC moved to who they really wanted. Now, if USU had said they were interested, then maybe there would have been an invite, if only to keep BYU in the MWC.

I have never seen any article about the Big West, if you could link it, I'd love to give it a read.

Of course LaTech wants out of the WAC, they've expressed their desire for a more regional conference for a long time. But, unfortunately for them, no one else wants them at this time. So wanting out and having someplace to go are two seperate things.

So no, there are not "plenty of facts to support that outcome."

That being said, I will agree that USU and LaTech are both out at the first chance of anything better.

Interesting I don't really disagree with your summary at all. I guess I disagree with your conclusion. I could read the entirety of your post and reasonably assume that it is a possible outcome, I actually think you have provided facts to support it.

I will take a look for that Big West Hawaii article.

[JALMOND]

OK, let's analyze this...

2012--Football, speculated speculated by who...you?
1. Utah State--to Mountain West??
2. Hawaii--to Independant??
3. Idaho
4. Louisiana Tech--to CUSA??
5. New Mexico State--to Mountain West or CUSA??
6. San Jose State
7. Texas State
8. TX-San Antonio

This speculated look of the WAC may be fun for you, but is HIGHLY unlikely. Why on earth would the MWC take Utah St? Or would CUSA take LaTech or NMSU? Hawaii going independant is also just as unlikely, as they would have to do it for all sports. Some say the Big West would take them for everything but football. I doubt that the bus league known as the Big West would add a school that would tremendously increase everyone's travel costs.

The only way any of that happens is if there is a major shift in conference alignments, I'm talking dissolution of conference type re-alignment. While that is possible, it is unlikely.

You did a good job of taking tons of message board rumors and presenting it as if it were actually on somebody important's radar.

I really don't care where the Griz go (i'll still be a fan), but honesty in the debate is important.

The outgoing longtime Weber AD mentioned Utah State to the Mountain West and Hawaii as an independent, but you are correct that a timetable was not presented. He just said "a matter of time". I'll give it three years, which is a long time, especially now with all the scuttlebutt going on. Rumors have been circulating about La Tech leaving for awhile, too, with the CUSA coming up most often. NMSU was the only one to me that was a stretch, but if the everyone starts leaving, I'm thinking they will try to get in with New Mexico (Mountain West) or El Paso (CUSA).

My apologies if I got too far ahead in my thinking.

[CPAlum]

This is not quite teh article I was looking for but it is close

http://www.staradvertiser.com/sports/sp ... _West.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I really dont think that Hawaii going indy in football and Big West for the remainder of sports is that far fetched at all. Their situation is unique given their location. The strength of their programs is a better match for the Big West than the WAC...

[JALMOND]

This is not quite teh article I was looking for but it is close

http://www.staradvertiser.com/sports/sp ... _West.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I really dont think that Hawaii going indy in football and Big West for the remainder of sports is that far fetched at all. Their situation is unique given their location. The strength of their programs is a better match for the Big West than the WAC...

My opinion of course, but I also don't think it is far fetched for Hawaii to go independent in football, that is why I put it out there. For almost anyone in the country, a chance to go to Hawaii in November is quite attractive.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

And if you didn't already know...Papa Bear didn't get the pieces until 93ish....

I know all about it. But that's sort of irrelevant to the point I was making - or the original point. While I will admit that even BSU did not have anywhere near the amount of success that Montana has enjoyed at the FCS level, I will caviat that by saying that BSU, UI, and Nevada's departure did help to facilitate some of that success. I'm not saying Montana didn't have the tools, even back then - but what I am saying is that it was a tougher conference to win in those days. I don't even think that's arguable.

I agree with the sentiment. The thing that is funny to me though is when people try and discount the Griz success (not you) that are members of the conference. You see when those teams left...we all were in the same conference and on a fairly equal footing as far as NONE of us having those teams in the conference any longer.

[nwFL Griz]

This is not quite teh article I was looking for but it is close

http://www.staradvertiser.com/sports/sp ... _West.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I really dont think that Hawaii going indy in football and Big West for the remainder of sports is that far fetched at all. Their situation is unique given their location. The strength of their programs is a better match for the Big West than the WAC...

My opinion of course, but I also don't think it is far fetched for Hawaii to go independent in football, that is why I put it out there. For almost anyone in the country, a chance to go to Hawaii in November is quite attractive.

That article works. I would definitely agree that Big West would work for Hawaii, and if UH helped with travel budgets, Hawaii would work for the Big West. The indy thing for football I have a different view of. I think UH would have a tough time (as any team will, BYU will find out when they don't have the de-facto WAC schedule) filling out a schedule during conference play. I have no facts to back up that feeling, having followed FBS and FCS scheduling religiously for the better part of 8 years, it's just a feeling I have. But the Hawaii-indy/BW idea is not far-fetched.

The outgoing longtime Weber AD mentioned Utah State to the Mountain West and Hawaii as an independent, but you are correct that a timetable was not presented. He just said "a matter of time". I'll give it three years, which is a long time, especially now with all the scuttlebutt going on. Rumors have been circulating about La Tech leaving for awhile, too, with the CUSA coming up most often. NMSU was the only one to me that was a stretch, but if the everyone starts leaving, I'm thinking they will try to get in with New Mexico (Mountain West) or El Paso (CUSA).

My apologies if I got too far ahead in my thinking.

I still don't think USU will ever be in the MWC (barring catastrophic re-alignment), but the Hawaii indy thing could happen (though I think it not likely now). The LaTech thing is a different story. Yes they would move, but they have to have a place to go. CUSA has re-buffed them before, and it would take them losing a team to take LaTech on. If CUSA were to lose a couple of teams, they might take both LaTech and NMSU.

I think the big key will be if the super-conference ever comes to fruition. The minute the Pac/Big/SEC/ACC go to 16 teams, then everything I said is out the window, and who knows how it'll all shake out.

[Fresno St. Alum]

Let me clear this up for all you WAC/MWC experts.

The BSU prez called USU and asked if they were interested because the CUSA commish tipped off the MWC that BYU planned on snagging some MWC/CUSA schools to go with them to the WAC. When USU prez said "you're a day late and a dollar short" it was on like donkey kong. Fresno & Nevada were offered official invites later that day.

If the MWC goes to 12. Houston and UTEP are at the top of their list. Utah St. is a fall back if TCU leaves for the Big East and Houston says no as a replacement since they'd have no rivals in the MWC. Utah St. would then replace them as #10 while refilling the Utah market(I use that loosely) that was lost when BYU/Utah bolted.

What sucks is poor Hawaii is getting left out. The MWC shoulda invited them and Houston last summer. Hawaii being too far thing could be fixed with Hawaii offering compensation, which they were offering to the WCC & Big West if they were to take them for other sports if they went fb indy.

[SuperHornet]

HI has already been in the Big West. I don't see them coming back as long as Dumb-Dumb Dennis and his Cali Bus League wet dream are in charge. He chased out USU and Idaho, and would hardly be in favor of bringing in the Wahines.

[Fresno St. Alum]

I never said they would, I just said Hawaii offered to help pay for them to come out to Hawaii, if they went indy in fb.

[Fresno St. Alum]

Also it's wishful thinking that La Tech goes to CUSA with UNT, FAU, MTSU, Temple being more attractive along with there not beinag an opening. The longer CUSA is stable then you could move UNCC to the top of their list once they have football going. NMSU has no home but the WAC. La Tech could go back to the Belt if they sallow their pride but they really have no other options. It's WAC or SBC.

[SloStang]

I never said they would, I just said Hawaii offered to help pay for them to come out to Hawaii, if they went indy in fb.

I have heard the same thing about Hawaii possibly offering to help with travel for Big West teams if they brought in their non football sports into the Big West. Having Hawaii in the Big West would be huge for the image of the Big West and also help in recruiting.

[nwFL Griz]

Let me clear this up for all you WAC/MWC experts.

The BSU prez called USU and asked if they were interested because the CUSA commish tipped off the MWC that BYU planned on snagging some MWC/CUSA schools to go with them to the WAC. When USU prez said "you're a day late and a dollar short" it was on like donkey kong. Fresno & Nevada were offered official invites later that day.

If the MWC goes to 12. Houston and UTEP are at the top of their list. Utah St. is a fall back if TCU leaves for the Big East and Houston says no as a replacement since they'd have no rivals in the MWC. Utah St. would then replace them as #10 while refilling the Utah market(I use that loosely) that was lost when BYU/Utah bolted.

What sucks is poor Hawaii is getting left out. The MWC shoulda invited them and Houston last summer. Hawaii being too far thing could be fixed with Hawaii offering compensation, which they were offering to the WCC & Big West if they were to take them for other sports if they went fb indy.

Kinda what I was trying to get at, as regards USU and their "invite". Didn't want to put it like you did, cause it sounds so...."secret agent." But, it is what it is.

[SuperHornet]

I never said they would, I just said Hawaii offered to help pay for them to come out to Hawaii, if they went indy in fb.

I have heard the same thing about Hawaii possibly offering to help with travel for Big West teams if they brought in their non football sports into the Big West. Having Hawaii in the Big West would be huge for the image of the Big West and also help in recruiting.

You're right about that, of course, but 3D's so into himself that it'll never happen.

[MrTitleist]

Hawaii was left out of the MWC for a reason.. they weren't invited to join when the MWC was born, and I really don't ever see that changing. The MWC needs to go after Houston.

[kemajic]

Wow...Did I miss something in my Thursday slumber?...is Montana gone from the Sky? ... Btw, jon, please tell me which program was better than Montana?


Boise St. - 1 national title
Nevada - 0
Idaho - 0

Wait...should I bring up playoff appearances...How about Conference titles?

To be fair, a lot of Montana's success happened after Nevada, BSU, and Idaho left the Big Sky. Things were a little different when you had to get past those three to win a conference title, or even make it to the play-offs.

Some, but not all. BSU and Idaho were still in the league in '95 when Montana won the NC. They beat BSU that year 54-28. Montana has beaten Idaho the last four times they played and 8 of the last 10.

[EWURanger]

To be fair, a lot of Montana's success happened after Nevada, BSU, and Idaho left the Big Sky. Things were a little different when you had to get past those three to win a conference title, or even make it to the play-offs.

Some, but not all. BSU and Idaho were still in the league in '95 when Montana won the NC. They beat BSU that year 54-28. Montana has beaten Idaho the last four times they played and 8 of the last 10.

That's why I said "a lot of it" as opposed to "all of it". I know about Montana's record against Idaho in recent history. Eastern has also beaten post move-up BSU and Idaho (on more than one occasion) as well.

My point in all this is if we can all agree that the Big Sky was a more competitive conference top to bottom back when BSU. Nevada, and Idaho were still playing in it - then surely even Montana fans must admit that it would have been much harder for the aforementioned schools to replicate what Montana did in terms of winning streaks, conference championships, and play-off runs while the old BSC was still intact.

Again, I'm not taking anything away from UM, but their rise to dominance in the BSC was at least partially facilitated by the departure of Nevada and the Idaho schools.