California's Prop 19

[CID1990]

It's not just old fogy's. It's also:

Drug dealers
Cops
Lawyers
Medical MJ "pharmacists"
Bible humping chicken littles
Crazy moms

Wrong on the cops.

Most cops are for legalization of not just pot, but ALL narcotics that are currently illegal.

I spent 17 years on the street and I think it should all be legal, but I respect the democratic process and will never feel harmed by the voters rejecting propositions like this.

If you disagree, then just ask yourself... what does the average cop have to gain from the continued illegality of drugs?

(And I am not looking for the John St.Onge canned response that illegal drugs give the big bad cops another excuse to harrass people)

[GSUhooligan]

It's not just old fogy's. It's also:

Drug dealers
Cops
Lawyers
Medical MJ "pharmacists"
Bible humping chicken littles
Crazy moms

If you disagree, then just ask yourself... what does the average cop have to gain from the continued illegality of drugs?

Job security.
A much larger budget.
"Found" money to fund pet projects.

[native]

If you disagree, then just ask yourself... what does the average cop have to gain from the continued illegality of drugs?

Job security.
A much larger budget.
"Found" money to fund pet projects.

Touche! ...for sarcasm, but Iagree mostly with Cid.

[Grizalltheway]

Blame it on the "old fogy" vote.

Just a guess, and not really based on anything, but I don't think ol' Grizo would be voting no on this issue.

[Appaholic]

If you disagree, then just ask yourself... what does the average cop have to gain from the continued illegality of drugs?

Job security.
A much larger budget.
"Found" money to fund pet projects.

+1 (agree with Cid the avg beat cop would like drugs to be legal, but the cops in decision-making & political positions.........)

[89Hen]

For those who are for Prop 19, what is your position on other illegal drugs? Also on prostitution?

[Appaholic]

For those who are for Prop 19, what is your position on other illegal drugs? Also on prostitution?

Think they should be legalized, reegulated, taxed & taken off the streets & out of the shadows......why sholdn't a dumb, good-looking chick be given the same opportunity to market her god-given talents like an ugly mensa girl?

[GSUhooligan]

For those who are for Prop 19, what is your position on other illegal drugs? Also on prostitution?

Prostitution +

I don't know enough about other drugs to know their intra-personal effects vs their interpersonal effects. In other words, if it's only going to f you up, whatever. If you can take it in moderation and its still going to f you up to the point where you can hurt someone else, no. Now which drugs fall into which categories, IDK.

[Chemhen]

But it might pass in Arizona.

I'm in favor of Prop 19 because I don't believe that marijuana causes the requisite negative effects to either individuals or society to make it illegal. You can make a good case that marijuana being illegal has greater negative effects on society than it being legal, in the form of misdirected law enforcement, prison overcrowding, border violence (I personally do not know if smuggling is more marijuana or harder drugs, so this could definitely be wrong), etc. Is there really a big difference between the current situation with marijuana and prohibition?

As to prostitution, it is not a victimless crime. Many prostitutes are forced into, many are underage, and its effects on society are definitely deleterious. I don't think it should be legalized, and most of the arguments for legalization are crap. Oh prostitutes could unionize (you think they'd want to be known as prostitutes). Cocaine, heroin, meth, etc. have FAR more negative effects on individuals and society than marijuana.

As I recall, hemp was originally illegal so as to not compete with rope, and there were definite racial overtones in its proscription (not sure on this though).

Oh, and I've never smoked, believe it or not.

[danefan]

Weed is no different then tobacco and booze.

I don't see any right wingers rushing to shut down Philip Morris or InBev.

[89Hen]

I don't know enough about other drugs to know their intra-personal effects vs their interpersonal effects. In other words, if it's only going to f you up, whatever. If you can take it in moderation and its still going to f you up to the point where you can hurt someone else, no. Now which drugs fall into which categories, IDK.

Weed is different than alcohol, no? I know there are different levels of "high" but I've never heard of someone smoking pot because they liked the taste and just had one hit.

[89Hen]

Weed is no different then tobacco and booze.

Sure it is. I've never heard of somebody not being able to operate machinery after a cigarette and I can drink booze and not get drunk.

[danefan]

I don't know enough about other drugs to know their intra-personal effects vs their interpersonal effects. In other words, if it's only going to f you up, whatever. If you can take it in moderation and its still going to f you up to the point where you can hurt someone else, no. Now which drugs fall into which categories, IDK.

Weed is different than alcohol, no? I know there are different levels of "high" but I've never heard of someone smoking pot because they liked the taste and just had one hit.

Booze isn't regulated because of the people who drink it for taste. Its regulated because of the people who are too young or too dumb to enjoy it responsibly. If people only drank alcohol for the taste then there would be no need for the regulation.

Weed is no different then tobacco and booze.

Sure it is. I've never heard of somebody not being able to operate machinery after a cigarette and I can drink booze and not get drunk.

You can smoke weed to and not get high to the point of having your motor skills impaired. Its all about moderation.

[89Hen]

As to prostitution, it is not a victimless crime. Many prostitutes are forced into, many are underage, and its effects on society are definitely deleterious.

Interesting take. Don't you think there are underage drinkers or smokers (or would be pot smokers)? As for being forced into it... are you talking about slave labor?

[89Hen]

You can smoke weed to and not get high to the point of having your motor skills impaired. Its all about moderation.

It's apparently a VERY fine line. Serious question. How does one know how much THC you're taking in? I know I can have X beers per X minutes and be under the legal limit. Can you even do that with pot?

[Appaholic]

As to prostitution, it is not a victimless crime. Many prostitutes are forced into, many are underage, and its effects on society are definitely deleterious. I don't think it should be legalized, and most of the arguments for legalization are crap. Oh prostitutes could unionize (you think they'd want to be known as prostitutes). Cocaine, heroin, meth, etc. have FAR more negative effects on individuals and society than marijuana.

This argument is either false or justification for outlawing the Sale & Distribution of Nike shoes as well. Prostitutes can and do unionize (see Amsterdam) & the ranches outside of Reno are just as safe as most suburban communities in states where prostitution is illegal. Has the outlawing of prostitution inhibited child prostitution? Not anymore than the outlawing of marijuana has prohibited it's use in society or outlawing of alcohol sales to minors have inhibited 18 yr old college student from getting beer. What outlawing these "crimes" have done is pushed the use of this vice into the shadows where it's harder to regulate. It's easier for a college student to get weed on a college campus than it is to have a beer in a local pub. And speaking from experience, it's easier to get a prostitute in downtown Missoula at 4am on a Saturday night than it was to get a beer served at the local pub. When you ban something, you can't regulate & monitor (effectively). But if you legalize & control, you can more effectively monitor it's use in society & proactively regulate changes to it's distribtution so as minimize impact upon society.

[Appaholic]

You can smoke weed to and not get high to the point of having your motor skills impaired. Its all about moderation.

It's apparently a VERY fine line. Serious question. How does one know how much THC you're taking in? I know I can have X beers per X minutes and be under the legal limit. Can you even do that with pot?

A very fine line indeed, but one that could be monitored & controlled by an agency. While it's being sold illegally by unscrupulous & unregulated distributors, you can't know how much THC you're taking in any better than you can monitor how much alcohol is in a jar of moonshine....my point....

[89Hen]

A very fine line indeed, but one that could be monitored & controlled by an agency. While it's being sold illegally by unscrupulous & unregulated distributors, you can't know how much THC you're taking in any better than you can monitor how much alcohol is in a jar of moonshine....my point....

I don't know if it can. Are you saying they'd have a joint with lines on the paper that said...

1mg | 2mg | 3mg | 4mg | 5mg |

like a stick of butter?

Would it be illegal to grow your own? I can brew my own beer legally.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

You can smoke weed to and not get high to the point of having your motor skills impaired. Its all about moderation.

It's apparently a VERY fine line. Serious question. How does one know how much THC you're taking in? I know I can have X beers per X minutes and be under the legal limit. Can you even do that with pot?

Why does this matter? It's a personal thing right? I know how much I can drink and if I go beyond it then that's my deal. I don't know how much it takes you but why the fuck would I care about that. That's your deal.

Same thing with weed to me. Why would you or I care about another person's high? It's up to them and if they break laws due to their inability to handle their high then they have to deal with that aspect.

I haven't been following along with the thread so if I'm misunderstanding what you are saying I apologize in advance.

[89Hen]

When you ban something, you can't regulate & monitor (effectively). But if you legalize & control, you can more effectively monitor it's use in society & proactively regulate changes to it's distribtution so as minimize impact upon society.

So you'd be in favor of legalizing cocaine, heroin, crack, ecstasy, etc..

[89Hen]

Same thing with weed to me. Why would you or I care about another person's high? It's up to them and if they break laws due to their inability to handle their high then they have to deal with that aspect.

I haven't been following along with the thread so if I'm misunderstanding what you are saying I apologize in advance.

You're not misunderstanding completely, but there's maybe a little more to it. The line where motor skills are impared from pot seems to be a very fine line based on studies. I don't know if there are "field sobriety" checks for THC impairment (are there?). What I'm saying is that you smoke pot to get high. There really is no other reason. The fact that you can't really moderate yourself effectively makes it very tough to say when you'd have enough and when you've crossed that line.

[Grizo406]

Blame it on the "old fogy" vote.

Just a guess, and not really based on anything, but I don't think ol' Grizo would be voting no on this issue.

Exactly!

[89Hen]

Why does this matter? It's a personal thing right? I know how much I can drink and if I go beyond it then that's my deal. I don't know how much it takes you but why the fuck would I care about that. That's your deal.

BTW, I guess you too are also are OK with legalizing cocaine, heroin, crack, ecstasy, etc..

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Why does this matter? It's a personal thing right? I know how much I can drink and if I go beyond it then that's my deal. I don't know how much it takes you but why the fuck would I care about that. That's your deal.

BTW, I guess you too are also are OK with legalizing cocaine, heroin, crack, ecstasy, etc..

The biggest difference is, I don't believe many people have ODed on pot...

Pot actually does less damage to your body than alcohol or cigarettes.

Since you've typed this sentence a number of times already, I assume you have somewhere you want to go with this, so I thought I would go ahead and take the bait.

[89Hen]

The biggest difference is, I don't believe many people have ODed on pot...

Pot actually does less damage to your body than alcohol or cigarettes.

Since you've typed this sentence a number of times already, I assume you have somewhere you want to go with this, so I thought I would go ahead and take the bait.

Many people have killed themselves and others with guns. Not really a valid distinction IMO.

It's not bait, it's logic. If someone is OK with pot beacuse they think regulating will make the inherent problems with it go away, the same should apply to all drugs. Similarly, if somebody thinks you should be able to get high in the privacy of your own home with pot, you should be able to get high in the privacy of your own home on any drug.