Big Sky Expansion

[Willie]

Right now the only thing that makes sense is Montana to the WAC. UND joins its peer institution Montana State as a travel partner. Montana gets the OK from the WAC to play at Montana State keeping that money maker alive.

Montana won't go anywhere unless MSU moves up as well.

[BisonBacker]

I see a lot of people on this thread yesterday that were giving JBB crap about his comments. Looks like many have egg on their faces today. Don't worry you can use that egg and mix it with some crow you have coming and enjoy.

[GeauxSioux]

I keep reading this Big 3 Dakota schools from a poster. Can you tell me which the BIG 3 are on this list?

Budget figure from OPE... http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

UND $ 16,784,688.00 2010 data
NDSU $ 14,261,707.00 2010 data
SDSU $ 11,923,267.00 2010 data
USD $ 7,159,168.00 2009 data

[SDHornet]

I see a lot of people on this thread yesterday that were giving JBB crap about his comments. Looks like many have egg on their faces today. Don't worry you can use that egg and mix it with some crow you have coming and enjoy.

He still needs to hop in the DeLorean and verify how traveling to UND costs $80-100k per trip. If he can't produce the calcs, it's no big deal, I honestly didn't expect him to produce any factual justification on the numbers.

[JBB]

I keep reading this Big 3 Dakota schools from a poster. Can you tell me which the BIG 3 are on this list?

Budget figure from OPE... http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

UND $ 16,784,688.00 2010 data*
NDSU $ 14,261,707.00 2010 data
SDSU $ 11,923,267.00 2010 data
USD $ 7,159,168.00 2009 data

Quicker than you can say "Yea but we have hockey" somebody from UND starts bragging about how much they are spending on athletics! With all that money spent the basketball team is literally the worst in the country, football is D2 level, hockey is off track and who knows about the few other sports you spend money on. Nobody including UND fans care.

First of all membership in the Dakota Big 3: NDSU, SDSU & USD isnt about money. Its about excellence and outstanding acomplishment on the field. NDSU has multiple FBS wins. SDSU went to the FCS playoffs their first year of eligibility. USD beats the Gophers.

The most notable game for UND so far has been the loss to NAIA Sioux Falls. That one really got the coverage. The biggest "win" was the "Moral Victory" at Texas Tech". Both games were 25 pt UND losses.

The Big 3 Elete programs have each excelled. None have bloated hockey budgets.

Secondly, SDHornet has misunderstood. The $80-$100,000 is for the entire season of travel. If you travel to 6 schools and OOC that adds up. But the only increase is above and beyond what was spent in the GWC. That was another travel nightmare, so the overall increase is actually a function of the expanded fixed travel obligation because of the larger league.

Funny thing is that bloated UND budget will be even bigger when the BSC travel costs start rolling in. I will suppose they will start bragging about how "big" their budget is all over again. Right now its simply full of hockey travel costs. They have fewer sports than The Big 3 too, and far fewer dollars are spent on scholarships that everyone ie eligible for.

* but we have hockey

[kalm]

I see a lot of people on this thread yesterday that were giving JBB crap about his comments. Looks like many have egg on their faces today. Don't worry you can use that egg and mix it with some crow you have coming and enjoy.

I think ursus admires him.

[JBB]

Careful with the coffee Kalm, it will swell your prostate even more than it is now.

[cats2506]

Secondly, SDHornet has misunderstood. The $80-$100,000 is for the entire season of travel all teams both men and womens.

Pretty sure that we (MSU) spend more than that traveling to Sac and vise versa. I guess we cant all live back east where there is a FCS school behind every rock (thank God)

[GeauxSioux]

I keep reading this Big 3 Dakota schools from a poster. Can you tell me which the BIG 3 are on this list?

Budget figure from OPE... http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

UND $ 16,784,688.00 2010 data*
NDSU $ 14,261,707.00 2010 data
SDSU $ 11,923,267.00 2010 data
USD $ 7,159,168.00 2009 data

Quicker than you can say "Yea but we have hockey" somebody from UND starts bragging about how much they are spending on athletics! With all that money spent the basketball team is literally the worst in the country, football is D2 level, hockey is off track and who knows about the few other sports you spend money on. Nobody including UND fans care.

First of all membership in the Dakota Big 3: NDSU, SDSU & USD isnt about money. Its about excellence and outstanding acomplishment on the field. NDSU has multiple FBS wins. SDSU went to the FCS playoffs their first year of eligibility. USD beats the Gophers.

The most notable game for UND so far has been the loss to NAIA Sioux Falls. That one really got the coverage. The biggest "win" was the "Moral Victory" at Texas Tech". Both games were 25 pt UND losses.

The Big 3 Elete programs have each excelled. None have bloated hockey budgets.

Secondly, SDHornet has misunderstood. The $80-$100,000 is for the entire season of travel all teams both men and womens.

Funny thing is that bloated UND budget will be even bigger when the BSC travel costs start rolling in. I will suppose they will start bragging about how "big" their budget is all over again. Right now its simply full of hockey travel costs. They have fewer sports than The Big 3 too, and far fewer dollars are spent on scholarships that everyone ie eligible for.

* but we have hockey

So you choose to not count the largest revenue sport in the Dakotas. Nice going.

Bloated budget? Maybe, but the figures I used were the expense side of the ledger. Using the revenue side, UND is at $ 16,945,635. So even with "bloated budgets" UND is making money.

By the way, UND sponsors more sports than both USD and NDSU.

You are right about the quality win comment. UND came close against Northern Illinois, but threw the INT at the goal line in the last minute. That too will come.

USD beat the Gophers.... Fargo South could beat the Gophers.

[JBB]

I listened to Fullerton last night and was surprised by some of the comments. The point was being made on what athletics is for and its not for increased revenues. The conclusion, and Boise State was the example, was that athletics leverage the universities growth in its core mission. The more visibility you have the greater the leverage. The trick is to keep the athletic program afloat at the highest possible level of success. The leverage comes with success.

There seemed to be some kind of excitement coming from Montana. There is no question the Boise State Business plan is admired there. There is also no escaping the 13 team BSC.

I think the BSC is done expanding. If anything happens next it will be contraction. 12 is a nice number. Its Fullertons number.

Two things have to happen:

1) The WAC has to approve away FCS games.

2) Montana and MSU have to go separate ways but keep the competition alive in all sports.

[SloStang]

First of all membership in the Dakota Big 3: NDSU, SDSU & USD isnt about money. Its about excellence and outstanding acomplishment on the field. NDSU has multiple FBS wins. SDSU went to the FCS playoffs their first year of eligibility. USD beats the Gophers.

Shouldn't we measure success of four programs by their head to head records? Remind me again who leads in football between UND and NDSU? Maybe you can list scores of the last 5 to 10 games in football between UND and NDSU.

If you are ever going to have a chance at catching UND, you are going to have to grow a pair and play UND.

[JBB]

[JBB]

I listened to Fullerton last night and was surprised by some of the comments. The point was being made on what athletics is for and its not for increased revenues. The conclusion, and Boise State was the example, was that athletics leverage the universities growth in its core mission. The more visibility you have the greater the leverage. The trick is to keep the athletic program afloat at the highest possible level of success. The leverage comes with success.

There seemed to be some kind of excitement coming from Montana. There is no question the Boise State Business plan is admired there. There is also no escaping the 13 team BSC.

I think the BSC is done expanding. If anything happens next it will be contraction. 12 is a nice number. Its Fullertons number.

Two things have to happen:

1) The WAC has to approve away FCS games.

2) Montana and MSU have to go separate ways but keep the competition alive in all sports.

Im not a mod so this is the best I can do to restore order.

[GeauxSioux]

First of all membership in the Dakota Big 3: NDSU, SDSU & USD isnt about money. Its about excellence and outstanding acomplishment on the field. NDSU has multiple FBS wins. SDSU went to the FCS playoffs their first year of eligibility. USD beats the Gophers.

Shouldn't we measure success of four programs by their head to head records? Remind me again who leads in football between UND and NDSU? Maybe you can list scores of the last 5 to 10 games in football between UND and NDSU.

If you are ever going to have a chance at catching UND, you are going to have to grow a pair and play UND.

Off topic means you nailed him and he doesn't want to respond.

[SloStang]

Thought that would be your answer. You brought it up but can not face that fact that UND owns NDSU in football. It get's under your skin so bad that you have to constantly take shots at them and try to bring them down. NDSU, SDSU and USD are in great conferences and I wish them well. UND is also in a great conference, one where the majority of their sports play. Time to move on.

[GeauxSioux]

Thought that would be your answer. You brought it up but can not face that fact that UND owns NDSU in football. It get's under your skin so bad that you have to constantly take shots at them and try to bring them down. NDSU, SDSU and USD are in great conferences and I wish them well. UND is also in a great conference, one where the majority of their sports play. Time to move on.

Agreed.

[SloStang]

There is also no escaping the 13 team BSC..

13 is a very workable number for football. Each team has four rivals that they play every year and then they play 4 of the other 8 teams every other year. Now 10 is a tough number for football. What is the MVFC going to do?

[webfan]

Can anyone summarize what this dislike for UND by other Dakota schools is all about?

[SloStang]

Just got awfully quite in here?

[SloStang]

Can anyone summarize what this dislike for UND by other Dakota schools is all about?

NDSU and UND were bitter rivals and there were hurt feelings when NDSU went DI and UND stay behind. UND's admin at the time was out of line, but all of that admin has moved on. Some NDSU posters can not. Also one poster can not get over the fact that UND has owned NDSU in football so he takes every chance he can to take shots at them.

[BisonBacker]

Thought that would be your answer. You brought it up but can not face that fact that UND owns NDSU in football. It get's under your skin so bad that you have to constantly take shots at them and try to bring them down. NDSU, SDSU and USD are in great conferences and I wish them well. UND is also in a great conference, one where the majority of their sports play. Time to move on.

Wow slostang I remember you being for the most part a more nuetral person on the message boards but you sure have put on the Sioux cheerleader skirt. What I find ironic in all of this conference shuffling mess and move up to DI in the last ten years is this. NDSU and SDSU led the way. There was nothing but bad talk coming from up North and talk about backstabbing (what sioux fans want to harp on about USD) all the while und did nothing but try there hardest to make the move up for NDSU as hard as possible. Funny thing is Karma is a bitch as many und fans said last week about when they again thought they were hurting NDSU by trying to get USD to make the move with them to the BSC. Well just be happy SloStang you have them in your football conference yet. Just be glad you don't have to travel for all other sports like the rest of the BSC will. There is a reason the BSC schools and most of their fans are pissed off royally now they are in the conference. Grand Forks for folks out West isn't exactly a vacation destination in January not to mention the biggest factor. The HUGE travel costs. Bottom line is El Forko Grande and the who got Utah Stated big time. Best part is they did it to themselves. Best of luck to the BSC and remember und has teh hockies

[BisonBacker]

Can anyone summarize what this dislike for UND by other Dakota schools is all about?

NDSU and UND were bitter rivals and there were hurt feelings when NDSU went DI and UND stay behind. UND's admin at the time was out of line, but all of that admin has moved on. Some NDSU posters can not. Also one poster can not get over the fact that UND has owned NDSU in football so he takes every chance he can to take shots at them.

SloStang that doesn't even begin to touch on what happened. But I digress. By the way I always enjoyed the games against Poly.

[BisonBacker]

Can anyone summarize what this dislike for UND by other Dakota schools is all about?

NDSU and UND were bitter rivals and there were hurt feelings when NDSU went DI and UND stay behind. UND's admin at the time was out of line, but all of that admin has moved on. Some NDSU posters can not. Also one poster can not get over the fact that UND has owned NDSU in football so he takes every chance he can to take shots at them.

NDSU has how many titles in football vs. how many for UND? Yep it's pretty quiet in here

[JBB]

Can anyone summarize what this dislike for UND by other Dakota schools is all about?

There is an undercurrent of hate that flows out of Grand Forks. Hostile and Abusive was the legal charge from the NCAA.

The following quote kind of sums up UNDs behavior since The Mighty Land Grants, NDSU and SDSU, announced their plans to go Division 1. They gave the conference 1 year to decide if they were moving up with them. During that entire time UND ridiculed NDSU from Presidents office all the way down to SloStang and Geauxsioux.

When NDSU announced its transition they quit playing. The ridicule continued. The most recent was the pressure for NDSU to start scheduling them again. It went all the way to the state legeslature. NDSU was taunted by the UND president and pro UND media ridiculed and taunted NDSU. In response NDSU gives them 3 separate contracts, none of them good enough.

Its been seven years now but the way they have acted sums up the entire history. They have quit cmpetiton with NDSU in every century since the 1800s.

It was a mistake made by UND, but that seems to fit a pattern of rash and regrettable moves made by that institution, beginning with their refusal to rid themselves of the nickname controversy when they decided to go Division I.

Decisions have consequences, and UND finds itself stranded without its Dakota brethren in a league that becomes as about as attractive as the GPAC if the Montana schools leave.

LINK

Now they are out west with their "peer institutions". Their future travel partner is MSU. Montana is probably off to the races. Either way its a "good fit" for them and a real plus for the Big Sky, especially if they are able to turn their programs around.

The real "get" from an athletic stand point is SUU. They are a text book case on how to build a football program. They really fit the footprint too. The Comissioner has now acknowledged them a "peer insititution" as well the Big Sky seems to set.

The business model took a little modification but the big conference Big Sky is still intact. In the mean time out here back east the Summit/MVFC/MVC are looking better than ever. As a whole the conference is more competitive and scheduling should benefit. Im sure there will be games with the newly expanded BSC. So here is to good sportsman ship, Slostag you too, and good times.

Good luck to you and the Expanded BSC. There may be some rough water ahead, ie. Montana to the WAC, but its a nice conference with or without them.

[SloStang]

NDSU and UND were bitter rivals and there were hurt feelings when NDSU went DI and UND stay behind. UND's admin at the time was out of line, but all of that admin has moved on. Some NDSU posters can not. Also one poster can not get over the fact that UND has owned NDSU in football so he takes every chance he can to take shots at them.

SloStang that doesn't even begin to touch on what happened. But I digress. By the way I always enjoyed the games against Poly.

BisonBacker, I have nothing but respect for NDSU and I too have enjoyed the games against NDSU and hope there will more in the future. I just get tired of one NDSU poster and any posting I do about NDSU and UND is aimed more at him/her. I think NDSU is a great program that will continue to rise up in the world of the FCS and will at some point move up to the FBS where they will also do very well.