What a difference 30-some years make...

[JoltinJoe]

Reagan. And say it .... Pope John Paul II.

Comedy aside, yes, JPII has been given more credit for that than Reagan...by sane thoughtful historians, too, and not Conks.

The first event in the fall of the Soviet bloc was John Paul's visit to Poland in June 1979. In open defiance of communist law, flags of the Polish Republic and the Catholic Church started flying at papal events -- first in small numbers and fleetingly, but as the trip continued, in massive numbers and more bravely, as more and more people became emboldened by the recognition that there were many, many more of "US" than '"THEM." This defiance was fueled by the pope's frequent demands for religious freedom in his public statements during this visit -- as his communist hosts looked lost about what to do.

For a spiritual perspective, the trip occurred over Pentecost, and signified the re-invigoration of the Spirit of the Polish Church, which came to realization in dramatic fashion.

There really is little doubt that the events in Poland in 1979 triggered the Soviet bloc conspiracy to assassinate John Paul II on May 13, 1981 -- but the pope survived what his doctors believed should have been fatal wounds (the pope lost 75% of his blood from two nearly point-blank shots; any loss over 40% is usually fatal). A story for another day ...

Just over a year later, the Solidarity labor movement formed under Lech Walesa, who has always maintained that he was emboldened by the events of the papal visit.

[Cap'n Cat]

Juan Pablo deserves more credit than Reagan, in my book.

[GannonFan]

If you wish to give Thatcher credit (and it is deserved), then you have to give credit to Reagan. Thatcher and Reagan closely coordinated development and implementation of policy toward the Soviet Union. Still, it was only the United States that had the resources to make those policies successful. Britain couldn't possibly have done it by itself.

Agreed, if Thatcher gets credit then Reagan has to get credit because by that time, without the US, anything the UK did wouldn't have mattered - they didn't carry enough weight on the international stage to do it alone.

Obviously Reagan gets too much credit if you look at the whackos like Limbaugh who tout him, but he was far more than the asterisk Cappy likes to say he was. Not the most important piece in the whole Jenga puzzle of the Soviet Union collapsing, but not a trivial one either.

[Cap'n Cat]

If you wish to give Thatcher credit (and it is deserved), then you have to give credit to Reagan. Thatcher and Reagan closely coordinated development and implementation of policy toward the Soviet Union. Still, it was only the United States that had the resources to make those policies successful. Britain couldn't possibly have done it by itself.

Agreed, if Thatcher gets credit then Reagan has to get credit because by that time, without the US, anything the UK did wouldn't have mattered - they didn't carry enough weight on the international stage to do it alone.

Obviously Reagan gets too much credit if you look at the whackos like Limbaugh who tout him, but he was far more than the asterisk Cappy likes to say he was. Not the most important piece in the whole Jenga puzzle of the Soviet Union collapsing, but not a trivial one either.

Ok, Ganny, two asterisks!!!



I'm not denying his contribution. He was a good guy, despite what I believe about his tenure.

[ToTheLeft]

I just laugh at the Cap'n commenting on the revisionist history of others when he constantly revises Obama's mess into some sort of ascent of a Messiah to power.

It's the same with every person with every political affiliation. Politics and religion are the two areas where people have the thickest rose colored glasses. Football is a close 3rd.

[CitadelGrad]

Juan Pablo deserves more credit than Reagan, in my book.

Your book has pictures colored with crayons.

[Cap'n Cat]

Juan Pablo deserves more credit than Reagan, in my book.

Your book has pictures colored with crayons.

Hey, long as I keep it inside the lines, bruh.

[JoltinJoe]

Agreed, if Thatcher gets credit then Reagan has to get credit because by that time, without the US, anything the UK did wouldn't have mattered - they didn't carry enough weight on the international stage to do it alone.

Obviously Reagan gets too much credit if you look at the whackos like Limbaugh who tout him, but he was far more than the asterisk Cappy likes to say he was. Not the most important piece in the whole Jenga puzzle of the Soviet Union collapsing, but not a trivial one either.

Ok, Ganny, two asterisks!!!



I'm not denying his contribution. He was a good guy, despite what I believe about his tenure.

Reagan deserves credit because he believed, really believed, that we would win the Cold War.

Jimmy Carter didn't believe it. He showed weakness in his dealings with the Soviet Union, and the Soviet Union and others took advantage of that. Mark my words. Iranian students NEVER would have charged the Russian embassy in Tehran and taken hostages, like they did at the US embassy in November 1979.

Also, the Soviets never would have invaded Afghanistan without a second thought if Reagan had been president in December 1979. Oh wait, though, we boycotted the 1980 Olympics. That showed them!

When Reagan said early in his presidency that the Soviets were "a sad, bizarre chapter in the history of the world whose last days were now being written," the intellectuals scoffed at him. I remember reading when op-ed piece in the Times which said that Reagan had seriously deluded himself into believing that the Soviet Union was going to go away. This writer said that you simply cannot treat a world power like the Soviets like that, you had to engage them, like Carter did, because the Soviet Union was not going away. This was typical reaction to Reagan's comments.

Of course, today the same people tell you that the fall of Soviet communism was inevitable.