Big Sky Expansion

[SloStang]

[During that entire time UND ridiculed NDSU from Presidents office all the way down to SloStang and Geauxsioux.

Once again you are completely off the mark. The ridicule may have come from the Presidents office (new Pres. and AD now) and Geauxsioux, but I was not involved in the back and forth back then. I just got tired of you f'ing up every thread that has UND in it over the last year or two. Give it a rest. Be a NDSU backer not a UND hater. They are now in a different conference going in a different direction. How about you doing the same.

[webfan]

All this UND vs NDSU, SDSU and USD seems childish to me .

[SuperHornet]

All this UND vs NDSU, SDSU and USD seems childish to me .

It's just an expanded version of what we see out of the Griz and the Kitties. We see the same thing with Sac and the Manure pile, Cal-Stanford, etc. It's just perspective, that's all. Of course, it's more complicated back in the Dakotas. There, it's more like the jilted lover thing going on. LOL.

Not saying it's right or wrong. That just seems to be the way it is. Weber doesn't seem to have a rival that rises to that level. Perhaps SUU will develop to that degree. I doubt it, though. I hardly think they'll ever be as good as Weber on a bad day. A school that can take out the "other" UNC rates VERY high in my book any day of the week.

[Willie]

The UND-NDSU or USD-SDSU clash is nothing compared to UM-MSU.

[JBB]

There really is no back and forth until you get guys like SloStang involved. His intentions are base and lead to off topic remarks.

Big Sky expansion appears to have left the conference unstable. It can stabalize in two different ways:

1) Lose Montana to the WAC. That makes the rest of the conference a little more grateful to SUU & UND.

2) Restructure. There have been a lot of good suggestions: divisions, UND football only other sports Summit (thats out of BSC hands though) or even adding an ambitious D2 move-up.

The BSC is changed forever. I just have this feeling there is going to be contraction before expansion again.

[SUUTbird]

All this UND vs NDSU, SDSU and USD seems childish to me .

Weber doesn't seem to have a rival that rises to that level. Perhaps SUU will develop to that degree. I doubt it, though. I hardly think they'll ever be as good as Weber on a bad day. A school that can take out the "other" UNC rates VERY high in my book any day of the week.

Im pretty sure we can beat other teams besides UNC, we only lost to a pretty good NAU by 3 and that was with Herrick their starting QB playing. Not only that we beat then #13 ranked Cal Poly (there now #21 or #20 i believe now) and currently are sitting at 5-2 against fellow FCS teams including a pretty good South Dakota team. Maybe before you say that we wont compete you should look at all the facts and at least give us a chance. Besides i doubt we would be any worse then Colorado School of Mines

[BisonBacker]

The UND-NDSU or USD-SDSU clash is nothing compared to UM-MSU.

NDSU-UND is most definetly on the same level or above you have no clue. Only difference is one is in Montana and the other in North Dakota. Personally I am glad they are going to the BSC and I will wish them well. Just glad you have em and we don't. Simple as that.

[Gil Dobie]

The UND-NDSU or USD-SDSU clash is nothing compared to UM-MSU.

Has one of the schools ever tried to get the state government involved.

1. NDSU name change from NDAC
2. NDSU DI move
3. State Board of Higher Education even ignored the Sioux name issue once they recieved a threatening Ralph Engelstad to stop construction of the Ralph.

[Willie]

The UND-NDSU or USD-SDSU clash is nothing compared to UM-MSU.

NDSU-UND is most definetly on the same level or above you have no clue. Only difference is one is in Montana and the other in North Dakota. Personally I am glad they are going to the BSC and I will wish them well. Just glad you have em and we don't. Simple as that.

Yeah, ok sure.

[BlackFalkin]

The UND-NDSU or USD-SDSU clash is nothing compared to UM-MSU.

NDSU-UND is most definetly on the same level or above you have no clue. Only difference is one is in Montana and the other in North Dakota. Personally I am glad they are going to the BSC and I will wish them well. Just glad you have em and we don't. Simple as that.

Ohhhh that stings!

[SloStang]

13 is a very workable number for football. Each team has four rivals that they play every year and then they play 4 of the other 8 teams every other year. Now 10 is a tough number for football. What is the MVFC going to do?

No answer to this? How will scheduling work in the MVFC with ten teams? Two 5 team divisions? That is awkward at best.

13 teams is better than 14 teams in football . 14 teams would have split the conference into two 7 teams divisions which means you would play 6 teams in your division and only play 2 teams from the other division each year. That would mean it could years before you faced certain teams from the other division. With 13 teams you see every school at least every other year. Now if Montana does bolt the Big Sky goes to 12 football teams it will split into two 6 team divisions which also works well. Play the 5 teams in your division and half the teams from the other division.

[BisonBacker]

The more comments from current fans of Big Sky Schools the more I'd be nervous if I was a fan or supporter of UND. When you haven't even played one game yet in the conference and fans are referring to your school as a dead weight on the conference or you are being compared to small and recent DII moveups it's got to sting. Makes one wonder what the presidents at the BSC schools are saying behind closed doors right now. As much as they want to sell the action as proactive in nature to expand I think most believe it was a defensive posture they were setting up for given the likely impending departure of UM. Fullerton really F'd it up and so did the presidents who made the decisions now and several years ago. I really do kinda feel bad for the fans or at least some of them from up North. I know many of them and other than the team they support they are decent guys. Being the red headed stepchild for the BSC can't be any fun and they haven't even been in the conference for a month.

[JayJ79]

Get a clue, people - they don't allow road games against FCS schools. No FBS conferences does, it's in the NCAA by-laws.

perhaps this is covered already somewhere in this thread (but I'm not sifting through 17 pages).
But can someone provide the NCAA by-law that prohibits FBS teams from playing road games at FCS schools?

Because frankly, I don't think there is any rule against it, other than economics.

[JBB]

I agree there is no bylaw. The WAC has a rule though and that would have to be changed for Montana/Montana State to continue. It might be a deal breaker for Montana too. I think Montana is a step away facilities wise right now. They need a practice facility from what I have heard.

[cats2506]

Get a clue, people - they don't allow road games against FCS schools. No FBS conferences does, it's in the NCAA by-laws.

perhaps this is covered already somewhere in this thread (but I'm not sifting through 17 pages).
But can someone provide the NCAA by-law that prohibits FBS teams from playing road games at FCS schools?

Because frankly, I don't think there is any rule against it, other than economics.

because there isn't any such rule, BUT most FBS conferences do have such rules in their bylaws and occasionally grant waivers or suspend that rule, it is not an NCAA rule though.

Going on, the point the WAC may have offered to waive that rule for UM (playing MSU) shows just how desperate the WAC really is. No self respecting FBS conference is going to go that far since other conferences use it against them in strength of schedule discussions.

[SuperHornet]

I agree there is no bylaw. The WAC has a rule though and that would have to be changed for Montana/Montana State to continue. It might be a deal breaker for Montana too. I think Montana is a step away facilities wise right now. They need a practice facility from what I have heard.

The WAC has a rule about what? There have been associate members in the WAC for several years now. Sac State is one of them.

[JBB]

The rule is WAC teams cant play FCS teams on the road.

Im sure the WAC is desperate. Theres nothing wrong with being in a tight spot. Its how you recover. If that rule is there then its a perfectly good idea to allow Montana to play at State if thats holding up Montana moving to the WAC.

[JBB]

Slo Stang, I think divisional play will be just fine. Its a little awkward with so many teams but it means some changes in the MVFC too.

There are some conditions and potential pit falls for both conferences. The Summit and MVFC have really done well for themselves during the Big Sky Expansion.

[SloStang]

Slo Stang, I think divisional play will be just fine. Its a little awkward with so many teams but it means some changes in the MVFC too.

There are some conditions and potential pit falls for both conferences. The Summit and MVFC have really done well for themselves during the Big Sky Expansion.

I really believe that the Summit did really well. I think the Summit would have done better if they also got UND. I also believe that MVFC members that are also Summit League members really pressured the MVFC into taking USD. I think 9 teams was a better fit for the MVFC, but like the Big Sky they decided to take a 10th member as a defensive move against possible losses to the FBS or another FCS conference like YSU's possibly to the OVC or CAA.

How do you see the divisional split will work for the MVFC now with 10 members? Play the four other teams from your division and 4 from the other? Do you protect any rivals from the other divisions like the Big Ten does? Our do you think they may just play 9 conference games like the Pac 10 does? What would you like to see?

[Thumper 76]

NDSU-UND is most definetly on the same level or above you have no clue. Only difference is one is in Montana and the other in North Dakota. Personally I am glad they are going to the BSC and I will wish them well. Just glad you have em and we don't. Simple as that.

Yeah, ok sure.

Ever been to an actual game in the rivalries you mentioned? If not don't talk till you been there. USD-SDSU is one of the oldest in state college rivalries there is.

[Gil Dobie]

Yeah, ok sure.

Ever been to an actual game in the rivalries you mentioned? If not don't talk till you been there. USD-SDSU is one of the oldest in state college rivalries there is.

I heard about the frozen coyote that took out the cheer team.

I've seen a few dead rabbits at Jacks games too.

[Willie]

Yeah, ok sure.

Ever been to an actual game in the rivalries you mentioned? If not don't talk till you been there. USD-SDSU is one of the oldest in state college rivalries there is.

I was at NDSU/SDSU in '06 & '07. And I saw UND/USD last year. Nothing special.

[Mike Johnson]

The following quote kind of sums up UNDs behavior since The Mighty Land Grants, NDSU and SDSU,

Calling some of the weakest land grant schools "The Might Land Grants" shows a degree of arrogance. I laugh and usually dismiss any comments made by one making that claim. I wonder how Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan State, Virginia Tech, Auburn, Clemson, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi State, Texas A&M, Oklahoma State, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and host of other land grants would react to the self identification of NDSU and SDSU as "The Mighty Land Grants".

The NCAA statement about UND was about the mascot.

[Gil Dobie]

Ever been to an actual game in the rivalries you mentioned? If not don't talk till you been there. USD-SDSU is one of the oldest in state college rivalries there is.

I was at NDSU/SDSU in '06 & '07. And I saw UND/USD last year. Nothing special.

Those are pretty tame rivalries.

[Mike Johnson]

Ever been to an actual game in the rivalries you mentioned? If not don't talk till you been there. USD-SDSU is one of the oldest in state college rivalries there is.

I was at NDSU/SDSU in '06 & '07. And I saw UND/USD last year. Nothing special.

I think he referred to the rivalries inside the states. It appears to me that mutual need has made the cross state relationships (NDSU/SDSU and UND/USD) more civil than those internal to the state, where from an outside perspective there is an equal amount of hate going back and forth.

There are a lot of rivalries like these as have been mentioned: Montana/Montana State, Sac State/UC Davis, and at FBS Cal/Stanford, UCLA/USC, Washington/Washington State, Oregon/Oregon State, Arizona/Arizona State, Utah/BYU, and so on with longstanding rivalries that grow negative. But, I think the Dakota rivalries have been complicated by the moves from Division II to I.