Montana staying in FCS

[SuperHornet]

I object to the comparison of college football to the baseball organizational system. First off, you're ignoring D-II, D-III, NAIA, and JuCo. Second of all, a quick look at Sagarin will show that certain FCS leagues (Big Sky, CAA, etc.) are notably better than some lower-tier FBS leagues (Sun Belt, C-USA, etc.).

It also varies by team. For example, Montana is likely to take out Idaho rather easily. (I'd even make a case for Montana over Washington State.) The same thing could be said for teams back East (Appy and Liberty come to mind in a two-tier comparison, Appy's example being much more impressive than Liberty's).

I know you wanted a rough look at it, but it's a whole lot more complicated than that.

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

I for one am glad............glad the talk can go away for awhile and glad we know what is going on for a few years anyway. Personally I didn't want to see us move up as I like the product the way it is now.

[AZGrizFan]

I object to the comparison of college football to the baseball organizational system. First off, you're ignoring D-II, D-III, NAIA, and JuCo. Second of all, a quick look at Sagarin will show that certain FCS leagues (Big Sky, CAA, etc.) are notably better than some lower-tier FBS leagues (Sun Belt, C-USA, etc.).

It also varies by team. For example, Montana is likely to take out Idaho rather easily. (I'd even make a case for Montana over Washington State.) The same thing could be said for teams back East (Appy and Liberty come to mind in a two-tier comparison, Appy's example being much more impressive than Liberty's).

I know you wanted a rough look at it, but it's a whole lot more complicated than that.

No shit, Sherlock.

[JALMOND]

Good move for the Grizzlies! Five years ago, a move to the WAC would have been attractive for any Big Sky team and something that Portland State had been looking at for many years. Now, with Boise leaving, Nevada and Fresno State leaving soon, and possibly Utah State and Hawaii later, the strength of the WAC has to be questioned. Looking at the last three Big Sky defections should have provided enough ammunition for Montana to veto a move from the start. Nevada finally hosted a Pac-10 team other than Oregon State this year (Cal). Other than Oregon State, no Pac-10 team, including Washington State has ever played at Idaho. And, even with all the documented success of Boise State, they finally had their first home game against a non-Oregon State Pac-10 team last year when Oregon played at Boise. However, all three have played Pac-10 schools on the road. Point is, in regard to any Pac-10 team with the possible exception of Oregon State coming to Missoula if Montana was in the WAC, chances are slim to none.

Also, I would think that Montana would want to achieve the same level of success that Boise has done in the WAC, but that comes with a price as well. No one from any of the BCS conferences currently will give the Broncos a home-and-home series, yet will still use the argument of "they do not play anyone" to keep them out of the national championship game. If Montana were to move to the WAC, how would this be any different?

As far as mens basketball, the prevailing basketball program in the WAC was Nevada who will be leaving. Before that, it was Utah State for a bit after they left the Big West. Before that it was Fresno State who is also leaving. Does it really increase your exposure to enter into a conference that finds itself below the Pac-10, the WCC and the Mountain West year after year. I'd put the WAC as a push with the Big Sky.

What I found interesting was that the UM president took on the job on October 15, about when this idea was gaining momentum. I'm not saying this is what happened, but it does smell fishy (and eerily similar). Whenever we bring in someone from the outside to the PSU administration, the talk of moving up starts again. The Big Sky is not a bad conference and the FCS is not a bad division, yet the perception from the outside is that it is, and as soon as "my team" can get out of there, the better off we will all be. It is why we hired Glanville, to get a salesman to promote the idea of moving to the WAC, yet still keep the winning tradition alive that was laid down by Walsh. I found it interesting that the Grizzlies have a new coach, a new system, and a new school administration. When they took off the blinders and found this conference and this level was pretty damn good, they want to stay. I say, interesting, but something I've heard before.

Just my two cents.

[AppMan]

“Finally, he wanted to ensure that UM athletic teams can compete successfully and maintain the prestige and integrity the program has demonstrated over the years.”

Talk about selling your program short! I could see the decision based on increased travel costs alone, but this makes it sound as though he is scared the Griz will get their fannies spanked. Don’t understand why, but it appears he thinks dominating the Big Sky is a big deal and doesn’t believe they will be able to do that in the WAC. This just doesn’t make any sense. Gotta think something is going on behind the scenes here.

[AZGrizFan]

“Finally, he wanted to ensure that UM athletic teams can compete successfully and maintain the prestige and integrity the program has demonstrated over the years.”

Talk about selling your program short! I could see the decision based on increased travel costs alone, but this makes it sound as though he is scared the Griz will get their fannies spanked. Don’t understand why, but it appears he thinks dominating the Big Sky is a big deal and doesn’t believe they will be able to do that in the WAC. This just doesn’t make any sense. Gotta think something is going on behind the scenes here.

Agreed. Pretty chickenshit reasoning if you ask me.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

“Finally, he wanted to ensure that UM athletic teams can compete successfully and maintain the prestige and integrity the program has demonstrated over the years.”

Talk about selling your program short! I could see the decision based on increased travel costs alone, but this makes it sound as though he is scared the Griz will get their fannies spanked. Don’t understand why, but it appears he thinks dominating the Big Sky is a big deal and doesn’t believe they will be able to do that in the WAC. This just doesn’t make any sense. Gotta think something is going on behind the scenes here.

Agreed. Pretty chickenshit reasoning if you ask me.

So now you are agreeing with what I said a few posts back then. Good for you. I knew you'd come around.

[Grizo406]

Ursus didn't even break a sweat!


AZ, down for the count...AGAIN!!!

[AZGrizFan]

Agreed. Pretty chickenshit reasoning if you ask me.

So now you are agreeing with what I said a few posts back then. Good for you. I knew you'd come around.

Really? I couldn't tell you... I stopped reading your posts 6 months ago...

[Willie]

Monte has been dead to us ever since he crashed his inaugural motorcycle ride last season

Really? There video of that anywhere?

I see it has been posted. And I have video I shot of his fucking head falling off during Idaho State.

[CaseyOrourke]

This is great **** news. Thank you to Montana State for giving us a real anchor and a great reason to not go anywhere without you.

If UND really did help the decision then a thanks goes there as well.

Sorry Ursus, but the UM/MSU rivalry is the lamest reason EVER. As is Engstrom's #3 reason:

Engstrom said three principles guided his decision. Finally, he wanted to ensure that UM athletic teams can compete successfully and maintain the prestige and integrity the program has demonstrated over the years.

That just shows he has absolutely NO balls. I'm predicting Griz will NEVER move up with him as President, and soon we'll be in a conference with Central Washington, MSU-Billings, Carroll, etc. because all the REAL schools will have moved on.

Translation: Montana wants to stay with the conference they have have been the top dog in since its inception and don't want to move to somewhere where they will be nothing more than the constant doormat and overall laughingstock of the coference.

Instead the WAC chooses to admit Texas State, UTSA and University of Denver, both of which have yet to play a football game of any sort.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

So now you are agreeing with what I said a few posts back then. Good for you. I knew you'd come around.

Really? I couldn't tell you... I stopped reading your posts 6 months ago...

From your replies to them it would certainly appear that way to an outsider.

[AZGrizFan]

Really? I couldn't tell you... I stopped reading your posts 6 months ago...

From your replies to them it would certainly appear that way to an outsider.

I'm sorry, were you saying something?

[CatMom]

At least we got something out of this. We go from being the largest school in the FCS to the largest school in the WAC.

I've been reading all you guys posts and all I come away with is....you just don't get it. As I have said, I'm not a fan of the move but it has happened and I'll go with it.
A lot of you have said, we would never go FBS unless it's one of the Big 6 conferences. Well, reality check. We weren't going to get courted by The ACC, SEC, Big East or Big Ten. We're not in their footprint or neck of the woods. Big 12? Pac 10? Nope. Not even the MWC. We weren't blind to those facts. We knew if anyone came calling would it be C-USA (doubtful), Sun Belt (more doubtful) MAC (nope) or the WAC. Some of the east coast FCS teams might get the op, if they were to try to move up. Those schools are in those conferences geographic footprint. Does anyone on here really think UT was going to extend their greedy hoof and say....come on into the fold TXST? NOT!

We don't have a storied football program, we're well aware, but, there really is more to it. Yes, we'll struggle there but other sports will do well from the get go. Our academics are at a higher level. Surprisingly, a lot of the WAC fans were concerned about that and, actually, we will be at or near the top in that aspect too.

Montana, what they decided, they decided. We don't have the luxury of being the State U. That's UT and we're in their shadow. UM doesn't have the competition for recogniton in MT that we have in TX. It's a hard thing to try and explain and get across to those that have no idea what it is like to be in the situation TXST has been in.....always.

This is what the alumni and, mainly, the student body wanted. They got their wish. I am hoping for the best, preparing for the worst but, as slycat said.....I'm going to miss the FCS and the playoffs.

[hammer]

Really? I couldn't tell you... I stopped reading your posts 6 months ago...

From your replies to them it would certainly appear that way to an outsider.

Ursus I don't think you will ever change the mind of the out of state guy from Arizona. It's a Montana thing and the non-native/transplants will never get it. Just like the former players article from yesterday, it's about the homegrown passion for the Griz that has built this program. Grady Bennett said it best "There is no way you could turn away your Montana base and still have this program. A team like Idaho St may have more overall talent, but they're never going to beat UM because those players are Montana kids, and the Grizzlies are all they care about. It's their passion, if Montana ever lost that, they'd be done. I don't care who they brought in talentwise"

Grady Bennett gets it. So does Marc Mariani and Colt Anderson and Dave Dickenson. ALL Montana kids. The poster from Arizona will never get it. I make the drive from Butte to Missoula every saturday when the Griz are home. I see the caravan, the cars from Havre, Great Falls, Billings, Sidney, Helena, Huntley Project (Waldhausers) and from everywhere else in this great state. They are driving 8 hours one way to see their son, nephew, grandson ect play for the team they dreamed about playing for when they were growing up. It's about Montana kids and their PASSION for the Griz. It's about fans of MONTANA kids going to scream their throats raw for that homegrown team and players that everybody knows, or knows somebody that knows them. That is what got this program to where it is today. Why the F*CK would anybody want that to end. Yes it would end as there would be less Montana kids on a WAC Griz team, FACT! The same spoiled people who are wanting to move up would be the first to bail after a few losing seasons. It's a Montana thing and those that aren't will never get it

[CatMom]

Yeah we do...except here, that's UT

I see those fans at all those away games and wonder how the hell all those people afford going to all those games, year in and year out. I figure they use all their vacation days/monies for football season. So, yeah, I get it. And that, sir, is what we, at TXST, are always up against

[SDHornet]

As far as mens basketball, the prevailing basketball program in the WAC was Nevada who will be leaving. Before that, it was Utah State for a bit after they left the Big West. Before that it was Fresno State who is also leaving. Does it really increase your exposure to enter into a conference that finds itself below the Pac-10, the WCC and the Mountain West year after year. I'd put the WAC as a push with the Big Sky.

The WAC had at least 2 NCAA Tourney bids last year in NM State and Utah State. (Did Nevada also get a bid?) Either way that is 1 or 2 more bids (and payouts) than the BSC will ever see on an annual basis.

[SDHornet]

From your replies to them it would certainly appear that way to an outsider.

Ursus I don't think you will ever change the mind of the out of state guy from Arizona. It's a Montana thing and the non-native/transplants will never get it. Just like the former players article from yesterday, it's about the homegrown passion for the Griz that has built this program. Grady Bennett said it best "There is no way you could turn away your Montana base and still have this program. A team like Idaho St may have more overall talent, but they're never going to beat UM because those players are Montana kids, and the Grizzlies are all they care about. It's their passion, if Montana ever lost that, they'd be done. I don't care who they brought in talentwise"

Grady Bennett gets it. So does Marc Mariani and Colt Anderson and Dave Dickenson. ALL Montana kids. The poster from Arizona will never get it. I make the drive from Butte to Missoula every saturday when the Griz are home. I see the caravan, the cars from Havre, Great Falls, Billings, Sidney, Helena, Huntley Project (Waldhausers) and from everywhere else in this great state. They are driving 8 hours one way to see their son, nephew, grandson ect play for the team they dreamed about playing for when they were growing up. It's about Montana kids and their PASSION for the Griz. It's about fans of MONTANA kids going to scream their throats raw for that homegrown team and players that everybody knows, or knows somebody that knows them. That is what got this program to where it is today. Why the F*CK would anybody want that to end. Yes it would end as there would be less Montana kids on a WAC Griz team, FACT! The same spoiled people who are wanting to move up would be the first to bail after a few losing seasons. It's a Montana thing and those that aren't will never get it

So only true UM fans live in-state? Does this apply for every fan that lives outside of the state of their alma mater/favorite university? I’m not buying.

[kemajic]

I can honestly say I would. The ACC is a joke as a football conference. Maybe I'd be swayed more by the Big East (or WAC in your case). We could never compete in the SEC & the ACC is not a step up IMO.

So you would routinely handle VT?

[SDHornet]

Yeah we do...except here, that's UT

I see those fans at all those away games and wonder how the hell all those people afford going to all those games, year in and year out. I figure they use all their vacation days/monies for football season. So, yeah, I get it. And that, sir, is what we, at TXST, are always up against

Hey TX State will get to play Sac State in baseball. Welcome to the WAC.

[kemajic]

From your replies to them it would certainly appear that way to an outsider.

Ursus I don't think you will ever change the mind of the out of state guy from Arizona. It's a Montana thing and the non-native/transplants will never get it. Just like the former players article from yesterday, it's about the homegrown passion for the Griz that has built this program. Grady Bennett said it best "There is no way you could turn away your Montana base and still have this program. A team like Idaho St may have more overall talent, but they're never going to beat UM because those players are Montana kids, and the Grizzlies are all they care about. It's their passion, if Montana ever lost that, they'd be done. I don't care who they brought in talentwise"

Grady Bennett gets it. So does Marc Mariani and Colt Anderson and Dave Dickenson. ALL Montana kids. The poster from Arizona will never get it. I make the drive from Butte to Missoula every saturday when the Griz are home. I see the caravan, the cars from Havre, Great Falls, Billings, Sidney, Helena, Huntley Project (Waldhausers) and from everywhere else in this great state. They are driving 8 hours one way to see their son, nephew, grandson ect play for the team they dreamed about playing for when they were growing up. It's about Montana kids and their PASSION for the Griz. It's about fans of MONTANA kids going to scream their throats raw for that homegrown team and players that everybody knows, or knows somebody that knows them. That is what got this program to where it is today. Why the F*CK would anybody want that to end. Yes it would end as there would be less Montana kids on a WAC Griz team, FACT! The same spoiled people who are wanting to move up would be the first to bail after a few losing seasons. It's a Montana thing and those that aren't will never get it

So I guess you're saying Biermann and Carpenter don't get it.

[hammer]

Ursus I don't think you will ever change the mind of the out of state guy from Arizona. It's a Montana thing and the non-native/transplants will never get it. Just like the former players article from yesterday, it's about the homegrown passion for the Griz that has built this program. Grady Bennett said it best "There is no way you could turn away your Montana base and still have this program. A team like Idaho St may have more overall talent, but they're never going to beat UM because those players are Montana kids, and the Grizzlies are all they care about. It's their passion, if Montana ever lost that, they'd be done. I don't care who they brought in talentwise"

Grady Bennett gets it. So does Marc Mariani and Colt Anderson and Dave Dickenson. ALL Montana kids. The poster from Arizona will never get it. I make the drive from Butte to Missoula every saturday when the Griz are home. I see the caravan, the cars from Havre, Great Falls, Billings, Sidney, Helena, Huntley Project (Waldhausers) and from everywhere else in this great state. They are driving 8 hours one way to see their son, nephew, grandson ect play for the team they dreamed about playing for when they were growing up. It's about Montana kids and their PASSION for the Griz. It's about fans of MONTANA kids going to scream their throats raw for that homegrown team and players that everybody knows, or knows somebody that knows them. That is what got this program to where it is today. Why the F*CK would anybody want that to end. Yes it would end as there would be less Montana kids on a WAC Griz team, FACT! The same spoiled people who are wanting to move up would be the first to bail after a few losing seasons. It's a Montana thing and those that aren't will never get it

So I guess you're saying Biermann and Carpenter don't get it.

Carpenter, and I quote " I don't know to put it, but you might not get that hometown feeling if you're moving up"

So now it's just Biermann?

[lakesbison]

you guys are delusional, the BIG FLUFFY is a joke.

Montana is afraid to play anyone and they LOVE being in a big fluffy easy conference. and now UND brings them no competition. Give us a break. and Yea, dont compare ANYTHING from the PAST.


und are a bunch of lil weinies just like montana, afraid of real compeition.

[ArmyOfDarkness]

This is all I have to say...

[youtube][/youtube]

Wassup Hammer

[SDHornet]

you guys are delusional, the BIG FLUFFY is a joke.

Montana is afraid to play anyone and they LOVE being in a big fluffy easy conference. and now UND brings them no competition. Give us a break. and Yea, dont compare ANYTHING from the PAST.


und are a bunch of lil weinies just like montana, afraid of real compeition.

What does UND going to the BSC, thus allowing NDSU to avoid the continued ownage by UND, have to do with UM not going to the WAC?