Montana staying in FCS

[Appaholic]

In the FCS, unless you are in a conference not in the playoffs (by choice, or PFL), you start the season with a shot at the NC.

If you win your conference, you are in the playoffs - very simple. If you don't win your conference, you still have a second chance to make the play-offs - by an at-large selection. If you get left out, then likely you would have no shot at the NC, anyways, but still can only blame yourself for not winning your conference in the first place.


Boise and TCU can go undefeated, win their conference, and still have no shot at the NC. HUGE difference.

Both systems have built in biases and both system can leave out a school who could plausibly win the NC. The only real difference between the two is how the teams are chosen and how many teams are chosen.

No shit, but only one of the systems consistently doesn't even offer a chance to deserving teams, whereas the other at least affords a team an oppotunity to play by earning their way to the playoffs. Pretty huge fokking difference if you ask me.....cna't believe you're defending a system that is inherently as biased as the BCS, but then again, you're background is in the banking industry.....

[clenz]

BlackFalkin, I just turned sigs back on and I must ask


Other than UNI owning EWU in the playoffs, why is UNI on your shit list?

UNI is halfway across the country, and UD is all the way across the country.

[Appaholic]

Can an FBS team not win its conference and still win the NC?

It's a better possibility if you're from the Big 6 than it is of a non-BCS winning the NC regardless of their record....

[Screamin_Eagle174]

This thread is like a mob stoning a retard (AZ) with rocks of reason and logic; amusing, but pointless - because he's a retard.

[Appaholic]

This just in from the board admin: Appaholic must change his screen name officially to "Polly Anna".

That's PollyAPPA to you, you BCS homer....

[BlackFalkin]

BlackFalkin, bc i worship you I must ask


Other than UNI owning EWU in the playoffs, why is UNI on your shit list? .

I wouldnt call a *LUCKY* 3 point win "OWNING" you bandwagon b:tch! Sit down & check dat sig farmer John.

[AZGrizFan]

Both systems have built in biases and both system can leave out a school who could plausibly win the NC. The only real difference between the two is how the teams are chosen and how many teams are chosen.

No shit, but only one of the systems consistently doesn't even offer a chance to deserving teams, whereas the other at least affords a team an oppotunity to play by earning their way to the playoffs. Pretty huge fokking difference if you ask me.....cna't believe you're defending a system that is inherently as biased as the BCS, but then again, you're background is in the banking industry.....

I'm not "defending" the system. Just trying to get people to take off the homer glasses and realize it ain't all peaches and cream in the FCS unless you happen to be a fan of Montana, App State or a handful of CAA teams.

[AZGrizFan]

This thread is like a mob stoning a retard (AZ) with rocks of reason and logic; amusing, but pointless - because he's a retard.

You know whats REALLY comical? is feeling the need to call someone a retard simply because their opinion differs from your own. How very "Ralphish" of you.

Why don't you go fuck yourself. You're good at that.

Oh, and FYI 174, EWU is one of those teams consistently living in la-la land, BELIEVING they've got a chance to win an NC, but naive enough to not realize the deck will ALWAYS be stacked against them by the powers that be in the NCAA, and in FAVOR of teams like Montana, App State and the CAA...but you can feel better about yourself because your team makes the playoffs a couple times every 10 years.

[89Hen]

Both systems have built in biases and both system can leave out a school who could plausibly win the NC. The only real difference between the two is how the teams are chosen and how many teams are chosen.

You seem to be on your own in this belief Z. Unless you have a EXTREMELY loose definition of plausable.

[clenz]

BlackFalkin, bc i worship you I must ask


Other than UNI owning EWU in the playoffs, why is UNI on your shit list? .

I wouldnt call a *LUCKY* 3 point win "OWNING" you bandwagon b:tch! Sit down & check dat sig farmer John.

Fucker...you're 0-5 against UNI. At that point, it isn't luck

12-07-1985
UNI 17
EWU 14
Division I-AA Quarterfinal Playoff Game

11-18-1989
UNI 47
EWU 21


11-28-1992
UNI 17
EWU 14
Division I-AA 1st Round Playoff Game

11-19-1994
UNI 27
EWU 17


11-26-2005
UNI 41
EWU 38
Division I-AA 1st Round Playoff Game

[89Hen]

I'm not "defending" the system. Just trying to get people to take off the homer glasses and realize it ain't all peaches and cream in the FCS unless you happen to be a fan of Montana, App State or a handful of CAA teams.

Or South Dakota State, or SFA, or Elon, or South Carolina State, or Holy Cross, or McNeese, or Southern Illinois, or Eastern Illinois, or Weber State, or UNI, or Maine, or Eastern Kentucky, or Cal Poly, or Texas State, or Colgate, or Wofford, or EWU, or Fordham, or Delaware State, or Lafayette, or Hampton, or Tennessee-Martin, or YSU, or Illinois State, or Coastal... all of these teams have been in the playoffs in the last four years.

PUT DOWN THE SHOVEL Z.

[kalm]

This thread is like a mob stoning a retard (AZ) with rocks of reason and logic; amusing, but pointless - because he's a retard.

You know whats REALLY comical? is feeling the need to call someone a retard simply because their opinion differs from your own. How very "Ralphish" of you.

Why don't you go **** yourself. You're good at that.

Oh, and FYI 174, EWU is one of those teams consistently living in la-la land, BELIEVING they've got a chance to win an NC, but naive enough to not realize the deck will ALWAYS be stacked against them by the powers that be in the NCAA, and in FAVOR of teams like Montana, App State and the CAA...but you can feel better about yourself because your team makes the playoffs a couple times every 10 years.

5 out of 7 and despite the deck being stacked, had a home game not that along ago for a chance to play for the national championship which is something the Griz will never have if and when they move up.

Non hating Griz fans are huge supporters of Eastern's success and growth as a program. It lends credibility back to Montana.

[AZGrizFan]

Both systems have built in biases and both system can leave out a school who could plausibly win the NC. The only real difference between the two is how the teams are chosen and how many teams are chosen.

You seem to be on your own in this belief Z. Unless you have a EXTREMELY loose definition of plausable.

Plausable means this: You make the tourney and get hot, anything can happen. Or perhaps (like Richmond), you start out slow, but finish strong, maybe JUUUUST missing the playoffs but playing some of the best football in the country at the end of the season. If Richmond wins out they'll be 7-4 and would have won 5 of their last 6 but they'll be 5th in a 10 team CAA and most likely on the outside looking in...

Is that not "plausable" enough for you?

[89Hen]

Plausable means this: You make the tourney and get hot, anything can happen. Or perhaps (like Richmond), you start out slow, but finish strong, maybe JUUUUST missing the playoffs but playing some of the best football in the country at the end of the season. If Richmond wins out they'll be 7-4 and would have won 5 of their last 6 but they'll be 5th in a 10 team CAA and most likely on the outside looking in...

Is that not "plausable" enough for you?

IOW, you couldn't come up with a real example of a team being left out that really had a shot at the title, so you will make one up.

[Appaholic]

You seem to be on your own in this belief Z. Unless you have a EXTREMELY loose definition of plausable.

Plausable means this: You make the tourney and get hot, anything can happen. Or perhaps (like Richmond), you start out slow, but finish strong, maybe JUUUUST missing the playoffs but playing some of the best football in the country at the end of the season. If Richmond wins out they'll be 7-4 and would have won 5 of their last 6 but they'll be 5th in a 10 team CAA and most likely on the outside looking in...

Is that not "plausable" enough for you?

And that's comparable to losing one game over 3 seasons, yet NEVER having an opportunity to play for a NC because you're conference isn't part of the Bowl Championship Syndicate (even though more sucessful than 1/3 of the Syndicate rep conferences)?....c'mon Z, even you don't believe that.....

[89Hen]

There is SO much subjectivity in our supposedly "superior" methodolgy that it's fucking laughable. Historic merit (see: Montana, Villanova, JMU rankings this year), hsitoric success of past conference mates (see: every CAA team with a better-than-.500 record being ranked)...Yeah, we narrow it down on the football field, but those lucky enough to be selected for an at-large slot are done so at the whim of a "committee", which is really no better than the computer used by the BCS.

Or perhaps (like Richmond), you start out slow, but finish strong, maybe JUUUUST missing the playoffs but playing some of the best football in the country at the end of the season. If Richmond wins out they'll be 7-4 and would have won 5 of their last 6 but they'll be 5th in a 10 team CAA and most likely on the outside looking in...

Is that not "plausable" enough for you?

BTW, it unbelivably funny that you use a 7-4 CAA team to make your point after your initial claim that a 7-4 CAA was the root of the evil in the playoffs.

[Appaholic]

Seriously Z, you're trying to compare a possible Richmond scenario that might happen this year (after 4 losses mind you) to a team who has been undefeated, but was just unlucky to be the 3 team in a 2 team playoff system? That's not even close....& this happens fairly consistently with the BCS...

[AZGrizFan]

I'm not "defending" the system. Just trying to get people to take off the homer glasses and realize it ain't all peaches and cream in the FCS unless you happen to be a fan of Montana, App State or a handful of CAA teams.

Or South Dakota State, or SFA, or Elon, or South Carolina State, or Holy Cross, or McNeese, or Southern Illinois, or Eastern Illinois, or Weber State, or UNI, or Maine, or Eastern Kentucky, or Cal Poly, or Texas State, or Colgate, or Wofford, or EWU, or Fordham, or Delaware State, or Lafayette, or Hampton, or Tennessee-Martin, or YSU, or Illinois State, or Coastal... all of these teams have been in the playoffs in the last four years.

PUT DOWN THE SHOVEL Z.

I'm not talking about just being able to say "hey! we made the playoffs!!!"

How many NC's among those schools in the past 20 years?

Go ahead...I'll wait. Take out YSU and the answer is a big fat ZERO.

Come on, Hen. Everyone KNOWS there's a very short list of potential winners....you know how many times since 1990 a team outside of the BSC, MVC, SoCon or CAA has made the NC game? FOUR. Out of FORTY. And two of those were McNeese State. So, we can continue to delude ourselves into thinking we're the rainbow coalition because we graciously allow the NEC, MEAC, Patriot and OVC to participate in the playoffs, but THEY know they have no SHOT. YOU know hey have no shot. They're just playoff fodder for the REAL teams.

So, unless you're Georgia Southern (8 appearances, none since 2000), Montana (7), YSU (6, none since 1999), App State (3) or happen to play in the CAA (and thus are that year's annual entrant into the NC game), you're really just window dressing to make everybody else feel good about a playoff system.

Now, all that being said, is our system BETTER than the BCS? Absolutely....but I find it comical that people can't take off the myopic glasses just for a MOMENT to admit that it's still flawed, with biases and problems that are inherent in ANY system, whether it's a 20 team playoff where half the slots are hand picked by humans, or a 2-team playoff where teams are picked by data fed into a computer (and that's your REAL beef with the BCS, isn't it Hen? )

[AZGrizFan]

Plausable means this: You make the tourney and get hot, anything can happen. Or perhaps (like Richmond), you start out slow, but finish strong, maybe JUUUUST missing the playoffs but playing some of the best football in the country at the end of the season. If Richmond wins out they'll be 7-4 and would have won 5 of their last 6 but they'll be 5th in a 10 team CAA and most likely on the outside looking in...

Is that not "plausable" enough for you?

IOW, you couldn't come up with a real example of a team being left out that really had a shot at the title, so you will make one up.

I don't have the time or energy to go look at every team that DIDN'T make the playoffs...but the fact you're not even willing to admit its possible makes the point moot, doesn't it?

[89Hen]

I'm not talking about just being able to say "hey! we made the playoffs!!!"

How many NC's among those schools in the past 20 years?

Go ahead...I'll wait. Take out YSU and the answer is a big fat ZERO.

Come on, Hen. Everyone KNOWS there's a very short list of potential winners....you know how many times since 1990 a team outside of the BSC, MVC, SoCon or CAA has made the NC game? FOUR. Out of FORTY. And two of those were McNeese State. So, we can continue to delude ourselves into thinking we're the rainbow coalition because we graciously allow the NEC, MEAC, Patriot and OVC to participate in the playoffs, but THEY know they have no SHOT. YOU know hey have no shot. They're just playoff fodder for the REAL teams.

So, unless you're Georgia Southern (8 appearances, none since 2000), Montana (7), YSU (6, none since 1999), App State (3) or happen to play in the CAA (and thus are that year's annual entrant into the NC game), you're really just window dressing to make everybody else feel good about a playoff system.

OH MY GOD! What kind of STUPID PILLS are you taking today. You're like fucking Cybil today. THIS IS MY EXACT POINT!!! Our system works because we put the best 10-12 teams in the field. The last 4-6 are just window dressing, and the ones that are left out are NOTHING. WE HAVE A TRUE CHAMPION because all of the teams that have a realistic shot at winning it make the field.

[AZGrizFan]

Seriously Z, you're trying to compare a possible Richmond scenario that might happen this year (after 4 losses mind you) to a team who has been undefeated, but was just unlucky to be the 3 team in a 2 team playoff system? That's not even close....& this happens fairly consistently with the BCS...

3rd team in a 2-team playoff....17th team in a 16-team playoff....yeah, it ain't the same thing, but it's not as big a difference as ya'll are making it out to be.

Do you think TCU is beating Oregon or Auburn? Should a 11-0 University of San Diego get into the playoffs just becuase they went 11-0?

[AZGrizFan]

I'm not talking about just being able to say "hey! we made the playoffs!!!"

How many NC's among those schools in the past 20 years?

Go ahead...I'll wait. Take out YSU and the answer is a big fat ZERO.

Come on, Hen. Everyone KNOWS there's a very short list of potential winners....you know how many times since 1990 a team outside of the BSC, MVC, SoCon or CAA has made the NC game? FOUR. Out of FORTY. And two of those were McNeese State. So, we can continue to delude ourselves into thinking we're the rainbow coalition because we graciously allow the NEC, MEAC, Patriot and OVC to participate in the playoffs, but THEY know they have no SHOT. YOU know hey have no shot. They're just playoff fodder for the REAL teams.

So, unless you're Georgia Southern (8 appearances, none since 2000), Montana (7), YSU (6, none since 1999), App State (3) or happen to play in the CAA (and thus are that year's annual entrant into the NC game), you're really just window dressing to make everybody else feel good about a playoff system.

OH MY GOD! What kind of STUPID PILLS are you taking today. You're like fucking Cybil today. THIS IS MY EXACT POINT!!! Our system works because we put the best 10-12 teams in the field. The last 4-6 are just window dressing, and the ones that are left out are NOTHING. WE HAVE A TRUE CHAMPION because all of the teams that have a realistic shot at winning it make the field.

Got it. So when Richmond gets bypassed this year you believe they'll have no legitimate claim to not being included?

And why expand the playoffs this year then?

[Appaholic]

Seriously Z, you're trying to compare a possible Richmond scenario that might happen this year (after 4 losses mind you) to a team who has been undefeated, but was just unlucky to be the 3 team in a 2 team playoff system? That's not even close....& this happens fairly consistently with the BCS...

3rd team in a 2-team playoff....17th team in a 16-team playoff....yeah, it ain't the same thing, but it's not as big a difference as ya'll are making it out to be.

Do you think TCU is beating Oregon or Auburn? Should a 11-0 University of San Diego get into the playoffs just becuase they went 11-0?

Yes. I do. A shame they won't get a chance to prove it on the field. If they were FCS, they would......

[AZGrizFan]

3rd team in a 2-team playoff....17th team in a 16-team playoff....yeah, it ain't the same thing, but it's not as big a difference as ya'll are making it out to be.

Do you think TCU is beating Oregon or Auburn? Should a 11-0 University of San Diego get into the playoffs just becuase they went 11-0?

Yes. I do. A shame they won't get a chance to prove it on the field. If they were FCS, they would......

A TCU/Auburn matchup would end up something like the Delaware/Delaware State matchup a few years ago.

[89Hen]

IOW, you couldn't come up with a real example of a team being left out that really had a shot at the title, so you will make one up.

I don't have the time or energy to go look at every team that DIDN'T make the playoffs...but the fact you're not even willing to admit its possible makes the point moot, doesn't it?

I can give you the answer that you are looking for. The one team that holds the title of "best team left out of the field" is Wofford 2004. Remember the "Woofed" term that came from that year? It was a consensus among EVERYONE here that they got screwed by not getting the final at-large bid that year.

They lost to AppSt, GSU and Furman in the regular season. Furman lost in the second round, GSU lost in the first round and AppSt DIDN'T EVEN MAKE THE FUCKING PLAYOFFS. The only way Wofford got screwed was they were the best team to not make the playoffs, NOT that they really had a shot at the title.