We're on our way...

[Chizzang]

Of course we've all read the list before - Today America has about two thirds of this list in play...

Previous Historical Examples:
Hitler's Germany
Mussolini's Italy
Franco's Spain
Suharto's Indonesia and several Latin American fascist regimes

What are the 14 things they all had in common...

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - intense of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized, war is always on the horizon.

5. Rampant Sexism - exclusively male-dominated societies, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - media is directly controlled by the government and large corporations

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

[kalm]

6. Controlled Mass Media - media is directly controlled by the government and large corporations.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

Control the messaging and

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

Become much easier.

Way too many otherwise reasonable people ignore history and fail to observe what's going on around them.

[native]

...Way too many otherwise reasonable people ignore history and fail to observe what's going on around them.

...especially you and cleets.

[93henfan]

We got around to the subject of war again and I said that, contrary to his attitude, I did not think that the common people are very thankful for leaders who bring them war and destruction.
"Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."
"There is one difference," I pointed out. "In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."
"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

Gustave M. Gilbert, Nuremberg Diary, New York: Farrar, Straus and Co, 1947, pp. 278-9.

[native]

We got around to the subject of war again and I said that, contrary to his attitude, I did not think that the common people are very thankful for leaders who bring them war and destruction.
"Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."
"There is one difference," I pointed out. "In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."
"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

Gustave M. Gilbert, Nuremberg Diary, New York: Farrar, Straus and Co, 1947, pp. 278-9.

The frightening fact is that Hitler and Mussolini won elections.

[kalm]

Gustave M. Gilbert, Nuremberg Diary, New York: Farrar, Straus and Co, 1947, pp. 278-9.

The frightening fact is that Hitler and Mussolini won elections.

So did the tea party.

[Chizzang]

...Way too many otherwise reasonable people ignore history and fail to observe what's going on around them.

...especially you and cleets.

So native,
I assume you can see at least some of the items on the list as comparable to present day America.. No..?

[native]

...especially you and cleets.

So native,
I assume you can see at least some of the items on the list as comparable to present day America.. No..?

If I saw no comparison, I would not have posted my response regarding Hitler and Mussolini having won elections, cleets.

I appreciate both your list and this thread, but I do not entirely accept the biases and assumptions of all the items on the list, their underlying historical accuracy, or the analytical completeness of your implications.

Your list provides a superb start for discussion, though! What is the source for the list?

[native]

The frightening fact is that Hitler and Mussolini won elections.

So did the tea party.

SEIU thugs have more in common with Hitler's Brown Shirts than does the Tea Party, kalm.

Fortunately for all of us, the thugs lost this latest round.

[kalm]

So did the tea party.

SEIU thugs have more in common with Hitler's Brown Shirts than does the Tea Party, kalm.

Fortunately for all of us, the thugs lost this latest round.

So the unions are a nationalistic front group for corporations that seek centralized control? O.K.

[native]

SEIU thugs have more in common with Hitler's Brown Shirts than does the Tea Party, kalm.

Fortunately for all of us, the thugs lost this latest round.

So the unions are a nationalistic front group for corporations that seek centralized control? O.K.

The similarity lies in SEIU union thugs' willingness to lie, cheat, steal and employee violence and multiple forms of intimidation and coercion in the service of centralized socialist power.

Not too keen on history? The Brown Shirts were dedicated revolutionary socialists, kalm. They disparaged and fought against the German Army, the aristocratic classes, and corporate power that Hitler needed to consummate his political and military power. Thus, the "Night of the Long Knives," in which Brown Shirt leadership was eliminated by Hitler in 1934.

[kalm]

So the unions are a nationalistic front group for corporations that seek centralized control? O.K.

The similarity lies in SEIU union thugs' willingness to lie, cheat, steal and employee violence and multiple forms of intimidation and coercion in the service of centralized socialist power.

Not too keen on history? The Brown Shirts were dedicated revolutionary socialists, kalm. They disparaged and fought against the German Army, the aristocratic classes, and corporate power that Hitler needed to consummate his political and military power. Thus, the "Night of the Long Knives," in which Brown Shirt leadership was eliminated by Hitler in 1934.

Thank God Hitler was able to put down those evil socialistic Brown Shirts huh?

I think you're confusing yourself again Nate.

[native]

The similarity lies in SEIU union thugs' willingness to lie, cheat, steal and employee violence and multiple forms of intimidation and coercion in the service of centralized socialist power.

Not too keen on history? The Brown Shirts were dedicated revolutionary socialists, kalm. They disparaged and fought against the German Army, the aristocratic classes, and corporate power that Hitler needed to consummate his political and military power. Thus, the "Night of the Long Knives," in which Brown Shirt leadership was eliminated by Hitler in 1934.

Thank God Hitler was able to put down those evil socialistic Brown Shirts huh?

I think you're confusing yourself again Nate.

Stop trying to obfuscate - again - kalm. You just got nailed for extreme ignorance!

Man up and move on.

But to your original point, a dead communist is a good communist.

[kalm]

Thank God Hitler was able to put down those evil socialistic Brown Shirts huh?

I think you're confusing yourself again Nate.

Stop trying to obfuscate - again - kalm. You just got nailed for extreme ignorance!

Man up and move on.

But to your original point, a dead communist is a good communist.

So in the fantasy world you've created is the SEIU and the Brownshirts the fascists or the Tea Party and the Nazi's?

And which ones are the bad guys?

[native]

Stop trying to obfuscate - again - kalm. You just got nailed for extreme ignorance!

Man up and move on.

But to your original point, a dead communist is a good communist.

So in the fantasy world you've created is the SEIU and the Brownshirts the fascists or the Tea Party and the Nazi's?

And which ones are the bad guys?

Nope. There you go again.

SEIU, Brownshirts and Nazis are all bad guys.

It's not just me that thinks the SEIU thugs are the bad guys. Hell, even half of union members think their own leadership are the bad guys.

http://politics.usnews.com/news/blogs/w ... -next.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not a fantasy, kalm. It is indisuputably clear that SEIU thugs have behaved like Brownshirts behaved in pre-WWII Germany. Your failure to acknowledge the fact is disingenuous and unbecoming.

[native]

Dear God, can I please have at least ONE worthy and well read opponent on this board, with intelligence, wit, honesty, honor, decency and intellectual integrity?

[youngterrier]

translation

Can I find someone who only disagrees with me on one subject?

[kalm]

So in the fantasy world you've created is the SEIU and the Brownshirts the fascists or the Tea Party and the Nazi's?

And which ones are the bad guys?

Nope. There you go again.

SEIU, Brownshirts and Nazis are all bad guys.

It's not just me that thinks the SEIU thugs are the bad guys. Hell, even half of union members think their own leadership are the bad guys.

http://politics.usnews.com/news/blogs/w ... -next.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not a fantasy, kalm. It is indisuputably clear that SEIU thugs have behaved like Brownshirts behaved in pre-WWII Germany. Your failure to acknowledge the fact is disingenuous and unbecoming.

I think all thugs and fascists are bad guys.

[native]

translation

Can I find someone who only disagrees with me on one subject?

Do you still consider me an "opponent?"

You have all the requisite good qualities, pup, but I don't think we disagree on much, hence I do not consider you to be an "opponent." Your only blind spot, as far as I can tell, is your hatred of Beck, which is at least understandable.

[native]

Nope. There you go again.

SEIU, Brownshirts and Nazis are all bad guys.

It's not just me that thinks the SEIU thugs are the bad guys. Hell, even half of union members think their own leadership are the bad guys.

http://politics.usnews.com/news/blogs/w ... -next.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not a fantasy, kalm. It is indisuputably clear that SEIU thugs have behaved like Brownshirts behaved in pre-WWII Germany. Your failure to acknowledge the fact is disingenuous and unbecoming.

I think all thugs and fascists are bad guys.

There is a good start. Do you deny that the SEIU and other unions often behave like thugs?

[kalm]

Dear God, can I please have at least ONE worthy and well read opponent on this board, with intelligence, wit, honesty, honor, decency and intellectual integrity?

Careful there Nate, you're sincerity is approaching Superhornet status.

[native]

Dear God, can I please have at least ONE worthy and well read opponent on this board, with intelligence, wit, honesty, honor, decency and intellectual integrity?

Careful there Nate, you're sincerity is approaching Superhornet status.

Your sarcasm can be funny and engaging as hell. It has been lacking in this thread.

And for the record, SuperHornet is my friend. I find his sincerity admirable. If we were all the same, what a boring place this would be.

[kalm]

I think all thugs and fascists are bad guys.

There is a good start. Do you deny that the SEIU and other unions often behave like thugs?

I'm sure it happens, but at about 10% representation in the U.S. workforce, their threat of consolidating power doesn't have me avoiding the beer halls yet.

[native]

There is a good start. Do you deny that the SEIU and other unions often behave like thugs?

I'm sure it happens, but at about 10% representation in the U.S. workforce, their threat of consolidating power doesn't have me avoiding the beer halls yet.

Now there's the kalm that I know and love!

And for your edification, kalm, the Brownshirt leadership was beheaded by Hitler in 1934, three years before the Nazi party achieved a majority in the Reichstag.

[youngterrier]

translation

Do you still consider me an "opponent?"

You have all the requisite good qualities, pup, but I don't think we disagree on much, hence I do not condider you to be an "opponent." Your only blind spot, as far as I can tell, is your hatred of Beck, which is at least understandable.

'twas a joke Nate-mistro